Goldwing's 818 Street, The Phoenix

[Goldwing]

Thanks, I did notice that. Before disassembling them earlier, I had hoped to trim a bunch off the longer outer screw, but instead trimmed 2 threads off of each side when I figured that out. If I trim the backing nut a bit, I could bottom out the screws inside the adjuster. I'm trying to be conservative on trimming in case I go another route. I'd hate to burn any bridges forcing more replacement parts.

I'll play with the upper arm a bit more tomorrow and set toe again. If I then clear the firewall corner or can modify it to clear I'll call it good. If I still hit the lower frame , I'll add more wheel spacer (concerned about fender clearance) or measure the distance of steering rack travel to make it clear, then find a split collar with a width matching that measurement and throw it inside the rack stops. I don't like limiting steering travel, but if it gets me the rest of the way there, it's a solution.

[Goldwing]

With the 3/8" spacer installed at the rear of the control arm, and some "persuading" to the forward upper A arm, I was able to pull the caster back in to 3.6, roughly check toe in, and get camber to -.5. Threw the tire back on and wound up still rubbing.

To review, 17x8 40-42 offset equivalent (including 10mm spacer in offset). Goodyear Eagle 1 Assymetric 2 215/45-17

With weight on the wheels, the lower frame will not rub. With aluminum mods at the outside firewall corner, I could fix the rubbing. Before adding the spacer, the corner was deep into the tread. As it stands, turning the wheel back to straight, both areas hit at the same time. I'm considering looking for a split locking collar to limit steering travel. 3/16" or 5mm steering rack stops would provide 1/8" clearance with full tread, zero weight on wheels and with an unmodified firewall. I'm less concerned about the frame area because weight on wheels increases clearance and and I would not be turning that hard at speeds that would create tire deflection. The aluminum deserves more clearance, but a little bending can easily increase that amount by a lot.

[Goldwing]

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[AZPete]

Rich, thanks for trying all those fixes before I had time to try them. My plan is to drive a few more miles as a go-kart but without turning too sharp, and then mount the body, get plates, and get a pro alignment. Then, I'll see how the tires look under the fenders (need spacers?)and decide if I need new tires (215/35/17?). I'm afraid that if I jump through hoops to find a fix now everything might change with the body on.

[Goldwing]

For the steering rack limiters, a call to the dealer didn't quite know what I was asking for. Perhaps not much call for such things in Subarus, but I've seen them before in a Ford. Maybe truck modifiers deal with these more? Or just bad communication on my part. From another hobby, biking, I thought of headset spacers. They come in precise widths. A standard size is 1" and measure 1.01" inside. The rack shaft on my '07 is 1.02" (26mm). Oh, and unlike most things at the bike store, they're cheap at $1-2 each. I'm going to try cutting them into a C and see if the .01" or .4mm difference in size will act like a nice spring clip to keep it in place and from rattling. 4mm was the measurement I made, 5mm is available at my bike shop, so I'll try that. If I feel it is too much limit, I'll find 4mm or even 3mm spacers. They'll come in Friday, they were out of 5mm pieces only having 10mm or larger.

An example of what I'm talking about:
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http://www.cambriabike.com/Wheels-of...ck-1in-5mm.asp

[Goldwing]

Rich, thanks for trying all those fixes before I had time to try them. My plan is to drive a few more miles as a go-kart but without turning too sharp, and then mount the body, get plates, and get a pro alignment. Then, I'll see how the tires look under the fenders (need spacers?)and decide if I need new tires (215/35/17?). I'm afraid that if I jump through hoops to find a fix now everything might change with the body on.

No problem, I will say you kind of drug me into this, lol. Where I'm at, a wheel spacer will help the lower frame issue, but not likely solve it. At the full turn angle, the spacer won't do much at the rear firewall corner, just move what part of the tire hits. So I guess I'm thinking the wheel spacer will be for looks more so than interference problems. Narrower tire would help at the lower frame. A thinner profile tire (smaller diameter) would help in both areas.

[Goldwing]

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Here's pics of the steering rack under the boot. Steering limiting spacers just get clipped around the shaft and limit steering travel by fitting between the body of the steering rack and the base of the steering arm. They get placed next to the base of the arm by the bend in place lock washer. If you don't put them at the end, they'll get pushed in place the first time you turn the wheel to the stop. For those who have to figure all this out anyway like I did.

[Frank818]

Rich, those spacers you put them inside the rack tube?

[Goldwing]

Rich, those spacers you put them inside the rack tube?

Yes. My fat finger drawing showing where it would go:
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I did see thicker clamps on a "super steering" kit by Perrin which quicken the rack on our cars by moving the steering connection closer to the hub. It had nice, secure-looking split collar locking clamps. C clips or round bushings are commonly used on the Ford truck steering racks I came across in my search earlier. If anyone can think of a reason to find something more secure than what I proposed speak up please.

[Frank818]

Actually that's inside the plastic boots, not directly inside the steel tube, I understand your "body of steering rack and base of steering arm". So you don't need to remove the end cap (the one you twist, for 02-03).
And how are you securing the C clip stoppers in place? They clip but how are they prevented from slipping away?

[Goldwing]

In truth, I don't know yet, but friction mostly. If it's snug, it won't move. If it was loose I suppose it could slide inward, but would just get pushed back against the tie rod base the next time you turned the wheel all the way. If you wanted something more secure (I had trouble finding a small enough locking collar), I suppose heating the ring while icing the rack end just might produce enough clearance to tap it in place. It only needs .4mm. I'll check the options once they come in. If as a snap ring it is resistant to move, I have trouble seeing any problems with movement. It's a pretty narrow ring to tap a set screw. I had thought of using a c clip cut from 1" PVC, but it could see temps warm enough to make a mess. Especially if I ever decide to throw power steering on it. I doubt I would, but I'm trying to think through all the possibilities having never driven the car before.

[Goldwing]

As another thought. The clip, as I envisioned it, would be an almost complete circle. Necessitating removal of the tie rod to install. There really wouldn't be anywhere it could go unless it broke.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Rich
Take a look ath this thread
Bob

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...tallation.html

[Goldwing]

Hey Rich
Take a look ath this thread
Bob

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...tallation.html

There ya go! Thanks! I see I wasn't the only one to think of PVC as a material source. And also not the only one to be concerned it may not be the best in the long run. But those are simple C clips in the product being sold, nothing fancy. I found something very similar in my search but wasn't able to verify measurements.

[07FIREBLADE]

I will be trying to use these c clips,

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...at_id=&added=1

I'll report back if they are a go or no go, depending on results. Thanks for bring this topic back up. Was just what I needed to look at this weekend.

[Goldwing]

I will be trying to use these c clips,

http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...at_id=&added=1

I'll report back if they are a go or no go, depending on results. Thanks for bring this topic back up. Was just what I needed to look at this weekend.

Since it was business hours, I gave them a quick call. He measured them at .8" inside diameter. That might be a tight fit on the 1+" (26mm) bar in my steering rack. Then again , that may be just right to provide a snug fit. I'll be curious to hear how they work. I'll report my mountain bike headset spacer results as well. The important thing I guess is to use a material that won't be affected by a little grease or heat over time. Nylon, steel, or aluminum stand out to me as good materials. PVC I'll worry over time.

[Goldwing]

To review my adjustments to the front to create tire clearance for the previously recommended 215/45-17's on 17x8 rims with low 40's offset, here's what I did:

First I added a 3/8" aluminum spacer where the steel rod bolts onto the rear mount of the front LCA. This adds caster mimicking the STI version if the aluminum arms. Do your research, but if you plan on buying aluminum arms, strongly consider the STI version of these arms that have added caster. I believe the 06-07 years had that change, earlier version may have had a different body mount. I'm not saying I know that either way, just pointing out something I ran across and haven't nailed down yet. The STI version that has extra caster has a bend along the forward edge of the arms, the Subaru performance tuning (SPT) version is straight along the forward edge. Anyway, I needed longer bolts due to the spacer, so I picked 4 50mm class 10.9 bolts (12mmx1.25 like the wheel studs) to keep a similar thread bite into the arm.
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Then, I had to modify the forward upper A arm to allow for a shorter adjustment. Note, by threading the longer side on first, say 4 threads, gives you the shortest overall adjustment. (It seems counter intuitive, but I figured that out through trial and error). The reason is you run out of threads on the shorter side before the threads bottom out inside the turnbuckle. The shorter adjustment allows to reach FFR recommended caster/camber adjustments. I'll leave it to you to figure out how you want to accomplish that in modifying.

Then to realign center, I had to lengthen the tie rod by half a turn to a turn or so.

Finally, I popped a 5mm wide c clip just inside the the rod base under the steering boot. For now, I just cut a 1" PVC pipe piece. I'm planning to use a 5mm aluminum headset spacer for a mountain bike. Regardless what is used, 5mm solved the remaining clearance issues.

This created clearance at the lower frame behind the wheel and at the aluminum outside corner of the firewall. I'll modify the firewall for additional clearance to be sure. With weight on wheels, the frame won't be an issue in my opinion.
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The bushings are compressed a bit, I'm thinking if adding the offset bushings recommended in a recent previous post to relieve the stress on those bushings.

[Frank818]

I'll be very closely watching your C clip solution.

[metalmaker12]

Like the spacer idea

[Goldwing]

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To help ID the 2 types of arms available as mentioned in my previous post: In the pic here, an STI arm with added caster is on the left. Note the bend in the leading edge of the arm. Then note that the SPT arm on the right has a straight leading edge. I hope that helps everyone.

[Boog]

Another look at the difference in ball joint placement between the WRX and STI (extra castor) arms. The picture shows steel arms, but from what I have read the dimensions are the same between the steel and aluminum WRX arms.

[Goldwing]

Another look at the difference in ball joint placement between the WRX and STI (extra castor) arms. The picture shows steel arms, but from what I have read the dimensions are the same between the steel and aluminum WRX arms.

Good info. Thanks. To do it again, I'd use STI aluminum arms. 20/20 hindsight.

[Goldwing]

Well, the headset spacers looked too thin. I had some previously that were thicker. Oh well. Time to look to another source. I have an old poly cutting board hanging around... Less brittle than PVC. Similar melting point. I bet nylon would be better.

[Goldwing]

I still haven't nailed down exactly what I'll keep in the evaporative emissions department. If the shop I use gets an 06-07 STI carcass in the near future to give me the parts to pull it off, I'll try. If not, it'll get a diet, but I wanted the charcoal canister regardless to control smells in the garage. I think I found a "corner" to hide the oem canister.
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Attached the feet to the frame with spacers and used a strip of aluminum I trimmed off the firewall to fashion a bracket to support it from the other end. A triangular support. Once I figure out a trunk, it may get a better support on the outside end. I find myself very hesitant to install pieces like this, afraid of just having to move it further down the build.

[dougkirkbride]

looks like you found a good spot for it. i am keeping my eye out for one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-95-96-97-...:X:EAC:US:3160

not sure if it will do as good of a job, it is much smaller but i read where some guys were using them and they dont contain any electronics.

[Goldwing]

Until I found a spot to mount it, I had planned on smaller. The wrx unit doesn't have any electronics that I know of, though there is a slew of electronics in the tubing going to and from it in the wrx. I mounted the air pump just above it, out of the way of the planned trunk.

[Goldwing]

I mounted a seat today. Used Sparco sliders mounted to the 1" bar in the rear using a JB weld captured nylon locknut in the seat track. The front of the track is bolted to a cross mounted 1" bar which has another set of JB weld captured nylon lock nuts to mount to the X frame members. I epoxied the nuts so I could mount the slider to the seat before installing it. Then, once lowered into the car, I could run the bolts from underneath. Exposed button heads for the forward mounts, recess mounted Allen socket heads in the rear.
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[Goldwing]

Almost ready to go kart.
I took a moment to enjoy how far into the manual I've progressed.
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[Goldwing]

One important step before go karting. Insurance. I'm pretty sure I'm stepping beyond my homeowner's policy now that I have it running. I wasn't sure when that boundary is crossed, and my agent never got back to me, regardless it wouldn't cover me if something happened during a quick test ride. So, I got a policy started with http://www.ncminsurance.com. They do agreed value after the building is complete. I think I found them in the GTM area with the corvette ties. They're the same people who run the corvette museum that had the big sink hole swallow a few Corvettes recently. Back to cleaning the garage and working the car down onto its feet.

[Goldwing]

I was having trouble lowering the car with the ground clearance so low. I'm using a scissor lift which sits higher than the ground clearance of the 818. Trying to slide the lift out between jack stands seemed to be asking for trouble. Since I also struggled to get my other cars on the lift, I decided to build ramps to sit along side the lift. I used stacked, interlocked 2x4's on edge bound with threaded rod. Simple, not too expensive, and a solution to help me lift all my cars on the lift. Took all my available time to cobble them together, my poor cordless drill will never look the same, lol. Finally, my 818 is on it's feet, on 818 day, as someone pointed out earlier, Aug 18. Go kart tomorrow maybe?

[Goldwing]

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[svanlare]

I love the photo of the bookmark in the manual. Congrats on getting it to its feet on 818 day. Notice you also got the kit on the 18th. Looking forward to the go-kart video.

[Goldwing]

Thanks. And how about that for a coincidence? 7 months to go kart ready. Now, can I finish the basic build before winter? That's the question burning in my mind!

[Goldwing]

Go karted today! First go kart & first video uplink.



Impressions, The steering is light enough. I learned to drive on a manual steering car, the 818 is a far easier steering effort (215/45-17). The clutch must have had rust or something from sitting so much, it was very grabby the first few shifts. The feel got much better after a few starts from a stop. I have to admit some renewed excitement after that! I also think some trimming of the 10 minute video was in order. That took a while to load. Anyway, for what it's worth, there you have it!

[Goldwing]

After listening to it, I honestly didn't chirp and squeal the tires as much as it sounds, lol. Starting out they chirped as the clutch grabbed hard. Then a few squeals in the cul-de-sac, that was about it. I'm not quite sure what the mic was picking up. Sounds crazy, lol. Perhaps a sound track is in order.

[AZPete]

Very Cool! Congrats! You said, "No leaks" but I noticed no sparks, no flames and no tow chain. Your go-kart sounds like mine in tight turns around the cul-de-sac as the front 215/45-17 tires rub. I don't think the video is too long because I LOVE go-kart videos. I can see the well-deserved pride in putting all those parts together into one part that drives. Now, do a few more laps around the 'hood!

[Frank818]

Congrats on that very important milestone!

No windscreen, no doors, no floor, open road! Reminds me of motorcycling.

Hey you got the k-tuned shifter, I forgot about that, feels nice?

[Goldwing]

Lol, ok maybe I should appreciate all those things Pete!

Frank, speaking of motorcycles, the throw on the k-tuned shifter reminds me of a motorcycle shifter. Even the feel for finding neutral. I like it, but I'm not used to it. Looks incredible.

I threw on my spare alternator this evening. Fingers crossed it works.

[svanlare]

Awesome. Don't worry about 10 minutes, I was happy to spend the time and will watch again from the hotel tonight when I can turn on the audio (as opposed checking it out here at work).

[Boog]

Frank, speaking of motorcycles, the throw on the k-tuned shifter reminds me of a motorcycle shifter. Even the feel for finding neutral. I like it, but I'm not used to it.

If you would, please expand a little bit. I've only spent a couple minutes on a motorcycle so I don't really understand what you are talking about, but I'm very curious about the feel of the k-tuned shifter.