David's Mk4 Build Thread

[otis]

Awesome exhaust flange solution. I wish I had thought of that for my dart pro 1 heads. I am still waiting for custom exhaust headers to be made.

Rob

[FFinisher]

Wow, That is some really creative and smart thinking. I am impressed. Not sure what direction my personal next build will take, but I am very interested in how thesey Coyote engines play out.

I spoke with Joe Leone at the open house........err moochfest rather..... and he explained your solution , Nice work.

Terminator? or Coyote??? HMMM decisions decisons. I am leaning toward new technology and brand new parts with the Coyote.. Since I won't likely do my own build now until next fall, I have time and this will allow for more development of these type parts.

[Larry N. Johnson]

David,

Did you get a shallower pan yet?
If not try Farra Snook at SoFast Racing in Oregon.
He has maybe more mod-motor experience than anyone else installing in FFR cars.
His business number is 541-928-5858.

Regards,
LNJ

[David]

I have been contemplating fabricating rocker arm suspension for my MK4 build so spent some time today checking to see if I could get it packaged so that it all would work without cutting the frame and still get the motion ratios I want. The goal is to get around 1:1 motion ratio (wheel to shock travel).

It appears from what I did today that I should be able to get the packaging and motion ratios I need and it should be 100% bolt on!





Pictures at full droop. I have a rough scale on the cardboard to check the travel of the spindle/hub compared to the shock travel.







With 5 inches of hub travel, shows 5 inches of shock travel and from my rough test
today, the travel is pretty linear.



This is the approx location and angle of the shock mounting. I would make a billet alum saddle that will clamp on the X to support the lower shock mount.

Im still somewhat torn on doing this but am leaning towards it. I think it would be pretty freaking cool looking and it has some benefit of getting the motion ratio to approx 1:1.

The rocker would be shaped somewhat like an L with a large fillet and be machined out of aluminum and have bearings pressed into it for the pivot.

The pivot bracket would be made from steel and bolt to the top of the upper control arm mount. It would most likely require the SAI mod or the new FFR spindles to work.

Most likely would be doing something similar to the rear suspension as well.

I’d definitely appreciate folks giving my feedback on whether I should go for it or not. Let me know what you all think!

David

[Someday I Suppose]

I think it would certainly be different, but since everything else on this car is so stock why the heck not :-)

A quick thought that popped into my mind on the pivot, are you going to keep them that circular shape? Couldn't it be more of a triangle and keep the ratio as you have it?

My only real concern I think I would have in the bearing area is just doing it in such a way that the pivot can't twist at all, but I am sure your going to throw it into Solidworks and do that fancy stuff with it anyhow.

The last question I had is where the shock end mounts? I think your going to basically the center of the X brace, but when I first looked at it, I thought you were going to the opposite side which would cause an criss cross issue when you do the other side.

-Scott

[THE ITALIAN]

I think ,due to the frame mods that have already been thought out and done ..
DONT STOP THERE!
THIS CAN BE THE NEXT standard IN GOING all the way ! Since I have an early and rare D BORDEN
" modded "frame , I for one want to see it. Q >> how many more will you do?
You may regret not doing it after it is finished,besides it will LOOK TRICK and let's face it, we want to watch.
There is a build in my future and I need tips and besides this will be the flagship in power and most important ,handling.
Mike

[John F]

Nice work, David. I've been sporadically following this on Corner Carvers, but it's nice to see it here where the pics are already opened

[David]

Glenn was kind enough to cut me a revised part in steel the other day and I was able tack them on the on the headers and do test fit. I opened up the tolerances about .040" around the perimeter to give a bit of room for adjustment and make it easier to fit.








It was a bit of a challenge to get the coating off, but was able to do so with some silicone carbide material in my bead blaster. Once complete I tacked them in place. Im pretty happy with the outcome.





Not sure how the headers fit with the stock 4.6, but Im pretty happy with the outcome with the test fit. The headers are back a bit, but nothing trimming the hole for headers wont fix.



I spoke to Glenn and he said he would be willing to make these adapters for folks if needed. Shoot him a PM if interested.

Let me know what you all think.

David

[Hankl]

David,

Off the wall! I love it!!

Hank

[Someday I Suppose]

David, awesome solution buddy, love it. Those pics really make you realize how close the headers are to the footbox as well. I know you said the headers are back just a bit, do you foresee any issues with them hitting the footboxes once the sheet metal is in place?

-Scott

[jabm]

Looks great David! Given the proximity of the headers to your footbox, are you planning to wrap them or use some sort of additional heat shielding?

[riptide motorsport]

Fantasic work! steven

[David]

David, awesome solution buddy, love it. Those pics really make you realize how close the headers are to the footbox as well. I know you said the headers are back just a bit, do you foresee any issues with them hitting the footboxes once the sheet metal is in place?

-Scott

There appears to be plenty or room Scott but good question though.

Anyone willing to measure the distance between the front of their footbox and the header tubes?

David

[oldguy668]

Just a quick FYI on the pan. Champ got it back from the plater and discovered a glitch when they mocked up the pickup and pump. They had to reweld something and it's got to go back to the plater. So, I'm going to lose another week before I get it and mount it up.

Now for a question: Can I mount the power distribution box and the computer on the passenger footbox so I can reserve the space behind the dash for my 3 ISIS modules? I can't seem to get my hands on a control package to check it for myself.

[MikeMcKena]

do you have to have the car before you get a # from dmv? how long do you have to get it built after you get a #? I'm in Freestone, CA by the coast and i'm trying to get all the details before i start building my dream car. I'll be following your build. Thank you

Mike M
Freestone, CA

[David]

Just a quick FYI on the pan. Champ got it back from the plater and discovered a glitch when they mocked up the pickup and pump. They had to reweld something and it's got to go back to the plater. So, I'm going to lose another week before I get it and mount it up.

Now for a question: Can I mount the power distribution box and the computer on the passenger footbox so I can reserve the space behind the dash for my 3 ISIS modules? I can't seem to get my hands on a control package to check it for myself.

Joe, sounds good on the champ pan! This stuff takes time...

There should be room for it there and from what I understand, they are designed for underhood environment. Actually a great place for it is mounted to the upper 3/4 tube around the pass footbox area with a custom bracket. You'll barely see it and wont need to splice any wires either(already mocked it up to test) I could probably figure something out to make for folks to make mounting easy. If its 2D, Glenn may be willing to cut them and sell. I have the harness so I can get measurements.

David

[David]

Im starting to get a bit more weekend time as Mary is feeling better and work has gotten back to normal…

Cutting down the flange on the first set of headers took quite a bit of work as I worked through a process. The 2nd set went much quicker. I created a simple template that is clamped onto the face of the flange and is used as a guide for a plasma cutter. I was able to get much closer without fear or cutting to far making the cleanup much much quicker.



After centering the adapter flange over the header flange and marking the area that needed to be cut away with a sharpie…





I tool my little guide plate and vise gripped it centered in the mark and started making my cuts.





After cleaning up the existing flange with a flapper wheel so the adapter flange slipped easily over it, I was ready to chamfer. Using a carbide burr, I ground a heavy chamfer on the adapter flange that went down about .25 inch with each of the top stud holes. I ran about a 1/8” chamfer around the rest of the adapter flange and I was ready to weld.






Glenn hooked my up with a freaking cool table with drilled and tapped holes that made bolting the flange down cake… I couldn’t have been easier.(thanks Glenn!) I went around and did some reasonable tacks around the joint and then went to town. I used filler rod for the large chamfers and just fusion welded the rest of it.

Its not done yet, but close. Just need to close up the areas close to the hold down bolts and a few other tight spots and I will be ready to fully weld the other one.

Thanks again to Glenn for helping us out and cutting these parts and selling them to the guys who need them. I know running that water jet is not cheap with the time it takes to cut 3/8 plate and the garnet costs… He probably makes just enough to buy lunch with every set he sends out.(no kidding)

Hopefully I can get the other set finished up this weekend and start making some forward progress. 

David

[astglenn]

I saw the work this morning. It looks really good. Dave has shown great craftsmanship and mad design abilities. If he gets tired of being a professional, really smart guy, I could use him in the shop. We can't tell anyone though. He would be a pariah here. His parents were married.

[Someday I Suppose]

David, looks awesome man, congrats on a job well done and one small step in the Coyote build :-)

_Scott

[David]

Thanks guys appreciate it!

David

[cozmacozmy]

How did the "flatness" of the header flange hold up to the welding? Do you need to mill them flat for the gaskets to hold up?

By the way nice work too!

[David]

How did the "flatness" of the header flange hold up to the welding? Do you need to mill them flat for the gaskets to hold up?

By the way nice work too!

It held up very well by bolting to the table and came out virtually flat. Just a few thou off from what I can tell so far. I still have a bit more to weld, but so far its looking really good. I have a feeling it will end up flatter than it started. I def dont think I will need to mill them.

Glenn used really high quality steel on the adapters, so I think that has something to do with it.

David

[Rome]

impressive thread. wow

[Art Totten]

Hi David,

Were the flanges water jet or laser cut? And I am not suprised that your parents were married. As to engineering............I hope you are not too well learnned. Cause if you were all you would know is what won't work. What we need in this country is more people that want to invent new and better things and ways. Like Kelly Johnson, who was in charge of the P-38, P/F 80 and SR-71 and much moore although not an Aeronotical Engineer.

[Richard Oben]

David, it appears you blasted the flange just enough to get a good weld, is that correct?
If so do you plan to recoat of just paint that part of the header? Let me know, Richard.

[David]

David, it appears you blasted the flange just enough to get a good weld, is that correct?
If so do you plan to recoat of just paint that part of the header? Let me know, Richard.

Yep, you got it.. Ive heard that if you dont get that coating completely off you can have problems welding so I just blasted it with silicone carbide to be sure. It was tough stuff. I do plan to re coat the headers. I should have wrapped some some of that heat shield around the header tubes when I used the plasma. It ended up messing up the coating on the tubes so needed to blast that clean as well. If one was careful, they wouldnt even need to get into the coating on the tubes, but not sure its worth being careful since re coating will protect the whole header.

David

[David]

Hi David,

Were the flanges water jet or laser cut? And I am not suprised that your parents were married. As to engineering............I hope you are not too well learnned. Cause if you were all you would know is what won't work. What we need in this country is more people that want to invent new and better things and ways. Like Kelly Johnson, who was in charge of the P-38, P/F 80 and SR-71 and much moore although not an Aeronotical Engineer.

Sorry for the delay Art! Hahaha, you funny dude Im barely learned.... maybe thats my problem! They were cut with a water jet by Glenn Evans. (ASTGlenn) I think you'd love that guy! Stupid smart like you and a kick to hear his stories.

David

[astglenn]

Sorry for the delay Art! Hahaha, you funny dude Im barely learned.... maybe thats my problem! They were cut with a water jet by Glenn Evans. (ASTGlenn) I think you'd love that guy! Stupid smart like you and a kick to hear his stories.

David

HA! My problem is that I seem to select Stupid from the bucket of available options, when I need smart. The adverse is proportionally true. Err wait...

[Richard Oben]

Our plan is VHT paint the flange area and save the coating on the tubes. It has been our exprience that the tubes and flange turn sort of grey from the heat anyway so painting them should be fine. Seems a shame to have to recoat for something that will never be seen. JMHO, Richard.

[astglenn]

Our plan is VHT paint the flange area and save the coating on the tubes. It has been our exprience that the tubes and flange turn sort of grey from the heat anyway so painting them should be fine. Seems a shame to have to recoat for something that will never be seen. JMHO, Richard.

This seems sensible. To be honest, if the high heat rattle can work is well executed with a heated part and warm paint, I see little long term difference, other than the price.

[Richard Oben]

Had the fab shop guys so the work. Had the edge of the flanges blasted just the edge, masked the pipes, cut the flange with the ubercool template and then welded it all up. Shot the flange with VHT and it looks great, I will see if I can get a pic. The customer was in a hurry to get them so they left without me snapping one.

Also, the oil pan button is up and working. We will have pans in about a month. HTH, Richard.

[astglenn]

Had the fab shop guys so the work. Had the edge of the flanges blasted just the edge, masked the pipes, cut the flange with the ubercool template and then welded it all up. Shot the flange with VHT and it looks great, I will see if I can get a pic. The customer was in a hurry to get them so they left without me snapping one.

Also, the oil pan button is up and working. We will have pans in about a month. HTH, Richard.

Cool. Seems like they are working well for everyone so far. David and I really tried to revise the thing so it was as user friendly as possible. Joe Leone (Oldguy688) actually had the idea of the full sized template. I just run the waterjet. I let the smart guys work out the details!

[doughboy]

I would like to know the answer to MikeMckena's question about DMV #'s too.

[doughboy]

I will be following along to see how the a/c install goes. It gets hot here in Sacramento as you know. My buddies drive vettes and they all have a/c so I don't want to be left out in the HEAT.

[David]

do you have to have the car before you get a # from dmv? how long do you have to get it built after you get a #? I'm in Freestone, CA by the coast and i'm trying to get all the details before i start building my dream car. I'll be following your build. Thank you

Mike M
Freestone, CA

Mike, sorry for the delay. I missed this questions...

At the very least, you need the Certificate of Origin from FFR, which generally means you need the car to get that. If you need it asap once you order, make sure to request it. It can take a few to get it after the car is ordered if not due to processing time at FFR.

David

[David]

I will be following along to see how the a/c install goes. It gets hot here in Sacramento as you know. My buddies drive vettes and they all have a/c so I don't want to be left out in the HEAT.

Agreed 100%. Im near sac as well and it does get hot here... thats why I plan to install AC. I hope to get started on the bracketry fairly soon. Working on getting some models that should help making the brackets. I'll post as I know more.

David

[Someday I Suppose]

David,

Was watch some Top Gear today and they had a Pagani Zonda R on it, I happened to notice the suspension on it, and I thought of what your trying to do. I found a couple images on the net, I thought it was interesting that they are using two sections with the heim of the shock sandwhiched between the two halves of the pivot arm.

Rear Suspension



On the front though it is interesting as the pivot arm is mounted directly to the upper a-arm which eliminates the need for a shaft where the shock would have been but also removes two pivot points.



Not sure if you could do something similar as a retrofit to the a-arms on the MKIV but thought I would share.

_Scott

[JGPierce]

David,

The 4.6L 3V is close in design to the Coyote. I've got A/C and P/S on the front of my 2010 Mustang engine and the only mod I had to do (so far) was cut the steering shaft and move the lower u-joint back to clear the P/S pulley. Is the front of the Coyote that different?

The problem I'm now trying figure out is how to fit the Ford Racing air filter/MAF assembly into the engine bay. It's too big and angles far left. I imagine finding some shorter pieces will work, but then does that mess up what the computer expects from the MAF?

John

[chrisarella]

JGP got me thinking...

Will you be getting this thing tuned after the build. I'd imagine there would be good gains from tuning considering the off-the-shelf mapping from Ford isn't really appropriate for the roadster (different exhaust and intake config, no cats, probably more air flow, etc.). And we all know the factory makes compromises for fuel economy and emissions so I'm sure there is room in the ceiling for more gains.

[The Stig]

Hi Dave,

I thought I would "stop in" and see what kind of magic you've been stirring up lately. I'm always amazed at the ingenuity and just plain smart thinking that you consistently demonstrate. Great job on the build. I was also glad to read that Mary is feeling better, and I hope you are too Buddy!

Did you get a chance to attend the Huntington Beach Cruise In?

Congrats on the sweet build Dave. I can't wait to see it completed!