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Thread: Any ABS updates? Anyone have it working?

  1. #41
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    DMC7492 nice work, nice clean bends.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  2. #42
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    Hi Guys I am oficially Go carting now. Have 102.4 illegal miles on country roads logging my fuel system and engine timing. Runs well up through 80 miles an hour, handles great on smooth roads! I also tested my stock antilock brakes with the Wilwood system from 25 MPH with the right wheels on the pea gravel on the side of the road stopping was non eventfull and straight. Slight buzzing as the soleniods did thier work. Then at 40 MPH on asphalt roads with pea gravel at stops from the Winter traction agent and again straight stopping and solenoid actuation . One more test at 55 MPH and stopping was quicker than I expected! I was 30 feet from the intersection!!. The wear on the brake rotors E coating show the fronts are doing more work as the coating is about two thirds worn off and the rears about one half worn off. This again is the stock hydraulics with NO proportioning valves in the front or rear wether it be the stock ones or aftermarket.
    I am very impressed in the results I am experiencing! This is out of the 2005 WRX Sedan donor, But not responsible for any results you may experience!!

  3. #43
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    Thanks for posting results. Glad its working well for you. I still need to test mine.

  4. #44
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    Thought I would followup on this thread.

    I tested my ABS system very well, and very often at the race track (Road Atlanta) two weekends ago. It works perfectly. This is with different tire diameters (235/17 up front and 265/18 in the rear). I have an ABS defeat switch on the dash which cuts 12v power to the ABS computer if I need to defeat it for any reason (doing so will cause an ABS light on the dash but it goes away when you power it back on).

    I mounted my G-force sensor under the dash, with the proper side up and proper end forward.

    I replaced the twisted pair ABS wheel speed sensor wires with some shielded wire. I did it because I'm also using traction control and the wheel speed sensors were a bit noisy - though the ABS computer was just fine with them prior to my upgrading the wires.

    I added two proportioning valves for the front brakes, one for front-left, one for front-right. When I adjust them, I just ensure I turn them the same amount. I haven't noticed a difference from all the way tight to 3 turns open, but I still need to play with them a bit.

    My only brake issue, which is a major one, is that the pedal effort is WAY too high. I'm running 4 piston fronts and 2 piston rears off an 07 WRX, stock 1" master cylinder, and I did relocate the master cylinder pushrod hole up higher on the pedal per FFR instructions. But I have to stand on the pedal to get max braking and when doing that, I can't modulate. I basically have to go into a full ABS stop coming into each corner which is not good. I generally don't do that and opt instead to just brake earlier into a corner but I'm obviously giving up a lot of seconds on the track doing that. To try to fix this, I'm going to swap the 1" master cylinder for a 7/8" one, and move the hole in the brake pedal another 1/2" higher (thanks to another forum member who PM'd me suggesting that). I'm a little concerned about the angle of the master pushrod when moving the hole up another 1/2".... both the angle itself as well as the possibility of the pushrod hitting the master cylinder housing, but if that happens, I may physically relocate the master cylinder up higher on the firewall. That would be a real pain in the neck, because I wouldn't need to or be able to move it up much higher, which means the new mounting holes would be so close to the old ones that strength could be of concern, so I'd have to weld the old holes shut and grind it down smooth before drilling new holes. Hoping I don't have to do that.

  5. #45
    Senior Member UnhipPopano's Avatar
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    "I added two proportioning valves for the front brakes, one for front-left, one for front-right. When I adjust them, I just ensure I turn them the same amount. "

    When adjusting them you might turn the ABS off first so that it is not compensating and you can better detect when the wheels are locking up.


    "My only brake issue, which is a major one, is that the pedal effort is WAY too high."

    Have you tried changing the brake pads to a more aggressive material?

  6. #46
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    Thanks - I have tried the brakes with ABS off and on, and from a prop valve standpoint, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

    I have changed the brake pads yes. Had new Hawk HPS or HPS+ (forget which) on there at first. Switched them to Ferrodo DS 2500 pads. Big improvement, but it improved it from totally unacceptable to just bad.

  7. #47
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    I ran Hawk Blue pads for mine. They made a huge difference from the original Centric/Stoptech Posi-Quiet street pads. Felt fine with initial grab on the street and I had plenty of confidence in them on the track, as well.
    818S - #67 (SOLD IT!)
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Thought I would followup on this thread.

    I tested my ABS system very well, and very often at the race track (Road Atlanta) two weekends ago. It works perfectly. This is with different tire diameters (235/17 up front and 265/18 in the rear). I have an ABS defeat switch on the dash which cuts 12v power to the ABS computer if I need to defeat it for any reason (doing so will cause an ABS light on the dash but it goes away when you power it back on).

    I mounted my G-force sensor under the dash, with the proper side up and proper end forward.

    I replaced the twisted pair ABS wheel speed sensor wires with some shielded wire. I did it because I'm also using traction control and the wheel speed sensors were a bit noisy - though the ABS computer was just fine with them prior to my upgrading the wires.

    I added two proportioning valves for the front brakes, one for front-left, one for front-right. When I adjust them, I just ensure I turn them the same amount. I haven't noticed a difference from all the way tight to 3 turns open, but I still need to play with them a bit.

    My only brake issue, which is a major one, is that the pedal effort is WAY too high. I'm running 4 piston fronts and 2 piston rears off an 07 WRX, stock 1" master cylinder, and I did relocate the master cylinder pushrod hole up higher on the pedal per FFR instructions. But I have to stand on the pedal to get max braking and when doing that, I can't modulate. I basically have to go into a full ABS stop coming into each corner which is not good. I generally don't do that and opt instead to just brake earlier into a corner but I'm obviously giving up a lot of seconds on the track doing that. To try to fix this, I'm going to swap the 1" master cylinder for a 7/8" one, and move the hole in the brake pedal another 1/2" higher (thanks to another forum member who PM'd me suggesting that). I'm a little concerned about the angle of the master pushrod when moving the hole up another 1/2".... both the angle itself as well as the possibility of the pushrod hitting the master cylinder housing, but if that happens, I may physically relocate the master cylinder up higher on the firewall. That would be a real pain in the neck, because I wouldn't need to or be able to move it up much higher, which means the new mounting holes would be so close to the old ones that strength could be of concern, so I'd have to weld the old holes shut and grind it down smooth before drilling new holes. Hoping I don't have to do that.
    Thank you very much for the awesome follow-up.

  9. #49
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    You are welcome. I should add that the brake pedal effort issue, and proportion valve tuning should have nothing to do with the fact that I have ABS.... just to be clear.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    I added two proportioning valves for the front brakes, one for front-left, one for front-right. When I adjust them, I just ensure I turn them the same amount. I haven't noticed a difference from all the way tight to 3 turns open, but I still need to play with them a bit.
    Hindsight.
    Do you realize the you are just wasting force with the proportional valve. With it all the way tight you are reducing your front brake pressure by 57%.

    Here are some rough numbers:
    inputs:
    100 lbs pedal force
    0.78 sq-in master cylinder
    1:4 ratio pedal.
    front brakes 3.97 sq-in
    rear brakes 1.76 sq-in
    front PV =57%


    calculated:
    100 x 4 x .78 = 312 psi out of MC
    front caliper squeeze force:
    312 x 3.97 x.57 = 706 pounds
    rear caliper squeeze force:
    312 x 1.76 = 549 pounds
    Total for all for wheels 2510

    My car
    100 x 4 x .78 = 312 psi out of MC
    front caliper squeeze force:
    312 x 3.97 = 1239 pounds
    rear caliper squeeze force:
    312 x 3.97 = 1239 pounds
    Total for all four wheels 4956
    I'm getting double your force with the same pedal pressure.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  11. #51
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    Hi Bob. I thought that when you TIGHTEN the valves (screw them in clockwise all the way), that this means you are allowing 100% of the pressure through them and when you loosen them all the way (counter clockwise), you are having them reduce pressure by 57% correct?

    If my above statements are correct, I do know that the valve reduces pressure to the front brakes and increases pedal effort, however, there aren't any other options to adjust front to rear bias aside from changing to the Wilwood brake caliper + brake pedal setup, or doing what you did and adding larger rear calipers. The larger rear calipers while also keeping e-brakes is a really tough mod in my book.... one I may do some day but not just yet.

    Right now I'm running the valves all the way tight, which I believe means letting all the pressure through, resulting in the front brakes doing more work, and all my pedal effort being realized to all the brakes. I still have a lot of pedal effort.
    Last edited by Hindsight; 09-14-2016 at 10:36 PM.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Hi Bob. I thought that when you TIGHTEN the valves (screw them in clockwise all the way), that this means you are allowing 100% of the pressure through them and when you loosen them all the way (counter clockwise), you are having them reduce pressure by 57% correct?

    If my above statements are correct, I do know that the valve reduces pressure to the front brakes and increases pedal effort, however, there aren't any other options to adjust front to rear bias aside from changing to the Wilwood brake caliper + brake pedal setup, or doing what you did and adding larger rear calipers. The larger rear calipers while also keeping e-brakes is a really tough mod in my book.... one I may do some day but not just yet.

    Right now I'm running the valves all the way tight, which I believe means letting all the pressure through, resulting in the front brakes doing more work, and all my pedal effort being realized to all the brakes. I still have a lot of pedal effort.
    My mistake Jeff,
    Clockwise is full pressure.
    When I ran my car with no PV and OEM caliber configuration. My fronts would lock up very easy.


    There is another way that I was considering.

    Using this device in the rear master cylinder line.
    http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake...ultiplier.html

    in hindsight, this would have been cheaper.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-14-2016 at 11:33 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  13. #53
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    Interesting option Bob, thank's for sharing that. I wonder if it would be compatible with an ABS system and if the devices are consistent enough to use two (one for each rear caliper), since that is what you'd need to do on an ABS setup.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Interesting option Bob, thank's for sharing that. I wonder if it would be compatible with an ABS system and if the devices are consistent enough to use two (one for each rear caliper), since that is what you'd need to do on an ABS setup.
    I forgot that you have a cross circuit with the ABS. If the system didn't have the yaw sensor, I suspect the you could just change plumbing and wiring to a front/rear circuit and get by with one BPM prior to the ABS unit.

    I have ABS plumb in as a front/rear system. But never bothered to do the wiring. With your results, I might give it a try this winter.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-15-2016 at 02:35 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  15. #55
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    It really works well Bob. Very smooth. The Subaru ABS doesn't beat on your brake pedal as hard or as on/off as some other cars I have driven.

    I need to come up with a way to mount the same 4-piston front calipers I have, on to the back. Fabricating a bracket shouldn't be hard, but dealing with the backing plate and finding a rotor that is the right size for the caliper to allow full pad contact and also works with the drum parking brakes might be impossible. If anyone has a solution to this - I'd be interested in hearing.

  16. #56
    Senior Member UnhipPopano's Avatar
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    In the brake threads there are a couple of threads that cover "finding a rotor that is the right size for the caliper to allow full pad contact and also works with the drum parking brakes ". For both using Subaru [Mounting front brakes in the back] and Wilwood, the off the shelf pads hang over the edge. There was also an explanation from Wilwood as to why the pads hang over the edge, and why it is alright.

  17. #57
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    Thanks! I will see if I can find those threads.

  18. #58
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    Hindsight, nice pics of the ABS lines.

    Where is the brake fluid reservoir ?

  19. #59
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    If you interrupt the ground wire of the abs module with a switch you don't get the lABS light when you disable the system

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by grathke View Post
    Hindsight, nice pics of the ABS lines.

    Where is the brake fluid reservoir ?
    I bought Mike's (Replica Parts) remote reservoir and mounted it on the windshield cowl.

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