windshield

[Walt]

Well I managed to put a crack in my windshield , I under stand the ffr glass is not very good, is there a supplier for glass that would be stronger and would fit in the ffr frame?

Thanks
Walt

[Blue MK3]

Here's what a lot of folks swear by. I have no knowledge of the product. http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications....p?id_product=1

[edwardb]

Well I managed to put a crack in my windshield , I under stand the ffr glass is not very good, is there a supplier for glass that would be stronger and would fit in the ffr frame? Thanks Walt

Welcome to the club. Unfortunately it's not a very exclusive one. You can call FFR. Depending on the age and conditions of how it broke, they may do something. Bethania Garage used to sell a "U.S. made" windshield. I have one on my Mk3. It's from Guardian Industries, and seems to be a nice quality piece. But unfortunately they're not available any more. They also only sell a Chinese knock-off same as FFR. I talked to Bethania a year or so ago and they said the volumes don't warrant any of the major domestic producers (e.g. Guardian) to provide these any more.

Some guys have reported taking the windshields apart and having the edges ground and polished. Apparently they're pretty rough. But don't know if this is causing them to break more easily. At the very least, shows the workmanship is perhaps suspect.

The replacement piece from Fast Freddie's is Lexan. By all accounts is a good option, and one I would personally consider should the time come. But be warned it's not DOT approved. So if your local codes or safety inspection requires DOT glass, this could be an issue.

For the record, not exclusively an FFR issue. Seems to be a problem with all the replicas. Many brands report recurring windshield issues.

[FFinisher]

I have windsheild, just the glass.

$200 plus shipping.

[2bking]

I have windsheild, just the glass.

Are you selling one or do you have a supplier?

[FFinisher]

Sorry I only have one.

I bought it on the forum, thought it was the complete windsheild, but its just the glass.

[riptide motorsport]

Here's what a lot of folks swear by. I have no knowledge of the product. http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications....p?id_product=1

X2^^

[FFinisher]

X2^^

I am personally not a fan of fast freddies windsheilds.

Yes they fit
Yes they are clear

But they are flimsy and do not have substantail support. I know the windshield is not supposed to support anything , but to me they are just flimsy and thin.

I am not saying this to sell my windsheild, Just sharing my opinion.

[Walt]

Is this a ffr windshield then and its new?
Walt

[AC Bill]

I've been living with a cracked windshield for several months, trying to decide what route to go.
This is the second chinese FFR supplied glass that has cracked on me, in the same area to boot. It doesn't really bother me at all when out cruising, but it doesn't look so great.

Insurance will cover the cost of a new glass and installation, less the $200 deductible, but I worry about how long it will last. I wonder if they would pay for a Lexan replacement?

[chopthebass]

Bill,
Are cracks a result of rock chips or does the stress of firm suspension crack them? I am now assuming mine will crack and I will try Lexan. I have just been talking to Brian at Fast Freddies about shipping one to Calgary.

[MPTech]

Bill,
Are cracks a result of rock chips or does the stress of firm suspension crack them? I am now assuming mine will crack and I will try Lexan. I have just been talking to Brian at Fast Freddies about shipping one to Calgary.

As I hear it, neither rock chips or suspension need cause it. I've heard of more than a couple instances the roadster was just sitting in the garage (or even the windshield sitting in the box! before it was installed) and just cracking (almost spontaneously). It's sounds like a combination of bad glass manufacturing process and the frame causing some kind of binding issue or a screw installed putting pressure on an edge.
When my cracks, I plan to go with a FastFreddie unit. A friend installed one in his roadster and liked it.

While you've got it apart, I'd also suggest Whitby Motorcars SS Windshield Inserts
before you strip out those crappy brass threads too. (on my list of winter upgrades)

[Cobra Scott]

I have a Fast Freddies windshield installed on my mk4.I had 2 ffr windshields crack in approx. 12000 miles of driving.Not a loss I could continue to absorb.I now consider the issue solved upon installation of the Fast Freddies product.The shield does flex more than a glass windshield but is in no way a distraction.The biggest change is not using glass cleaner.409 to clean and Plexas polish are the recommended cleaning options.Very satisfied and no more "surprises".If you wear polarized sunglasses however you may not like the optics through the lexan-only possible negative I have found.

[SStrong]

In the build school we were told to carefully check clearance on the screws that attach the sidebars to the windshield frame. 4 of mine were 1 or 2 threads too long. The crack won't show up for a day or two after you tighten them. Put the screws in finger tight and see if they're bottomed. If so, they are going to tighten into the glass. Remember, tempered glass is extremely sensitive along the edges (I watched our glass man demonstrate this to customers - lightly tapped the edge -shattered - then banged the center of the glass - no effect)

[edwardb]

In the build school we were told to carefully check clearance on the screws that attach the sidebars to the windshield frame. 4 of mine were 1 or 2 threads too long. The crack won't show up for a day or two after you tighten them. Put the screws in finger tight and see if they're bottomed. If so, they are going to tighten into the glass.

I can't speak for what they said in build school (haven't attended) but this isn't exactly right. The glass isn't exposed to the screws for the side bars. The inner channel of the windshield frame is between the ends of the screws plus there's a rubber gasket on the other side. I can't imagine any possibility to overtighten the screws and deflect the windshield channel into the glass either.

However, the point about being careful with the side bar screws is a good one. Use a light touch when tightening, and adjust the length if necessary. The stock windshield has a brass strip in the channel with threaded holes. It's quite thin, so only has a few threads and they're really easy to strip if you over-tighten or bottom out. Also real easy to mess up if you cross thread them, which isn't hard to do since the screws go in at kind of a funny angle compared to the side bar. I highly recommend the Whitby SS replacement for the brass strip. Have used it in both of my builds. Still thin, but way harder to mess up the threads. When you install the strips you'll see what I mean about how the glass isn't exposed to the side bar screws.

Having said the above, I've read multiple cases where guys have broken the glass with too long of screws on the visors along the top of the windshield. In that case, you are going directly into the face of the frame and the glass isn't far underneath.

[chopthebass]

Wish I could see what those windshield inserts look like as I don't understand what they are! Whitby website isn't working for me now so I can't see the pic there. Is this strip something I can replace before installing the FFR complete windshield ? or is it only replaceable after glass is removed?

Thanks
Ian

[edwardb]

Wish I could see what those windshield inserts look like as I don't understand what they are! Whitby website isn't working for me now so I can't see the pic there. Is this strip something I can replace before installing the FFR complete windshield ? or is it only replaceable after glass is removed?

Thanks
Ian

Website seems to be working from here: http://www.whitbymotorsports.com/UIn...ventoryid=1579

They replace the similar looking brass strip that is captured in the windshield channel where the sidebars attach. To install, the sidebars have to be off. The glass isn't affected. But you do loosen the small screws and angle bracket at both bottom corners of the windshield frame so you can slide the old inserts out the bottom and slide the new ones in. They're a pretty tight fit but only take a few minutes to install. They come with new 10-32 SS screws.

Not trying to take business away from Whitby, but these would be really easy to make if you have the right material and can tap accurate 10-32 threads.

[MPTech]

I heard they need to be cut/filed/ground/fitted a bit for installation, but much better than the brass ones.

[Norm B]

I have the Whitby ones installed (stripped the supplied brass ones) and they did need to be filed a bit. I also needed to get some longer screws to attach the side bars and then file them to fit without bottoming out. I have a Whitby soft top and it puts some stress on the windshield and frame. Much happier with the strength of the windshield and frame with these inserts.
Norm

[chopthebass]

Does anyone have a photo showing where these bars are on the frame?

[AC Bill]

Bill,
Are cracks a result of rock chips or does the stress of firm suspension crack them? I am now assuming mine will crack and I will try Lexan. I have just been talking to Brian at Fast Freddies about shipping one to Calgary.

A reasonable assumption..lol
First one was already cracked in the box when I first opened it The second one cracked after almost 5000 miles of driving, so I don't believe it had anything to do with the stiff suspension. The car was just sitting in the garage, and overnight a crack appeared.
Interestingly enough, almost everyone's windscreens crack in the exact same area..which leads me to believe they are flawed from the factory. Chinese quality control..not so great, as evidenced by so many poor quality items produced there.

I wonder sometimes if it may be caused from temperature changes. The edges of the glass apparently are not factory finished (sanded/ground), very well, which could create pressure points. The glass and the chrome plated brass frame, would probably heat up and and cool down, expanding and contracting, at different rates. This might cause pressure on the glass at the pressure point, and cause the crack..

Builders have long speculated on numerous things that could cause these crack issues.
Windscreen posts have to be mounted correctly to the frame, using spacers to prevent side pressure. Post holes need to be large enough to not allow the body to apply any pressure to them. Screws need to be shortened to prevent pressure points, both on the sides and the top of the frame. Don't allow passengers to use it as a hand hold, getting in or out of the car. Don't apply any pressure when cleaning it, etc, etc.
I did all of those things, and it still cracked, so I have to narrow it down to, simply poor quality.
Some fellows are now, at their expense, removing the glass from the frame, and having the edges ground smooth, hoping this would resolve the issue. Haven't heard much feedback as to if this solves the problem or not.

[edwardb]

Does anyone have a photo showing where these bars are on the frame?

They're along the outside edge of the windshield frame, directly under the side bars. The four screws holding each side bar in place go into the four tapped holes in the brass or replacement SS piece. The windshield for my Mk4 build is in the basement with the side bars removed, so easy enough to get a pic. I'll post when I get home if no one else does.

[chopthebass]

Thanks Ed. Wondering whether to just go ahead and replace them at the start of my build.

[R. Button]

I know the cost of the windscreens at Finish Line are a bit more but after I broke my first windscreen - it doesn't hold up well when you drop a hammer on it! I purchased a Finish Line windscreen - got a second one after that one had gotten so bad with tiny chips - at night all you saw was the headlights twinkling in the glass!
I did spend time just assembling the frame only and checking all the screws - the L shaped ones in the lower corners of the frame - those screws can stick through and if the glass windscreen shifts doesn't take much to start a crack. 'Course many have had the sun visor's little screws create cracks so I also install all the windwings and visors hardware into the empty frame to clean up the screw lengths. Thus far the Finish Line windscreens have held up well - for glass windscreens anyway!

[DaleG]

Thanks Ed. Wondering whether to just go ahead and replace them at the start of my build.

I've built 2 FFRs (well, 1-1/2...the MK4 is not on the road yet). Used the brass strips in both with no issues. I have Whitby's stainless strips and screws that I'm not going to use; you are welcome to them for $15 + postage. PM if interested.

This subject is a big one and lots of threads address it. From gleaning through these posts over the years, several things stand out as prevention steps:

Store windshield standing up (like the box it came in says), i.e. not flat.

Remove the glass and take it to a shop and have stress risers (if any) around the perimeter removed.

Do as mentioned above several times: make sure the screws used to bolt the posts to the frame strips do not bottom-out on the frame.

When installing the windshield, do not place any bending stress on the posts when attaching to the chassis; use shims (washers) where needed to fill gaps between the posts and the chassis.

And as AC mentioned above, most crack in the same area, starting from bottom left and working their way up and toward the right, as I recall; has to be a common denominator there somewhere.

[Gumball]

I took significant pains to attempt to stave off any cracks that aren't the result of traumatic injury (i.e., impact). This included quite a few hours of work that involved completely breaking down the assembly, removing the glass, having the edges ground and polished, then reassembly with a careful eye to the depth that all screws penetrated the frame. I also added flat-stock shims to the mounting point on the chassis. When doing the final fitting, I had to give the lower portion of the side posts a slight twist below the body opening so that they would lay flat against the chassis shims. When I was done, I could take the four tiny screws out of each side and remove the windshield frame without any stress in/out on the side posts.

My car has only been done a couple of days, but the windshield has been around for five years now. Even so, I still expect it to crack and will be very happy if that day doesn't come for quite some time. If it happens sooner, then so be it.

Here are some pics of the things I did to hopefully avoid cracks:

Polished edge - before this photo, the edges had visible chips and nicks, which the glass guy said could have easily resulted in cracks, especially if the glass was put under any pressure during installation:



Beveled the ends of these corner pieces and ground down the screws - when originally taken apart, the rubber weather strip clearly showed two round impressions from these screws on each corner:



Chassis mount spacers - note that these are mounted to the chassis by screws that are installed from the inside and are flush with the outside (the flat surface that is visible is where the windshield side post sits flat:

[DaleG]

I don't think you can do any more to prevent cracking than Chris has done; follow his lead.

[edwardb]

They're along the outside edge of the windshield frame, directly under the side bars. The four screws holding each side bar in place go into the four tapped holes in the brass or replacement SS piece. The windshield for my Mk4 build is in the basement with the side bars removed, so easy enough to get a pic. I'll post when I get home if no one else does.

This isn't the best pic, but hopefully gives the idea. This is the DS edge of a windshield with the side bar removed. You can see the SS strip in there. The original brass strip is there for reference.

Note: The pictured SS strip has extra tapped holes. I added the second set because the originals didn't line up exactly with the provided side bars. It was a very slight difference, but just enough to prevent the screws from going into the countersink properly. This was an easier fix than risking messing up the countersinks in the side bar. I have no idea if this difference was a variation in the side bar or the SS strip. I installed the same SS strips on my Mk3, and they fit perfectly. Can't explain the difference.

[chopthebass]

I've built 2 FFRs (well, 1-1/2...the MK4 is not on the road yet). Used the brass strips in both with no issues. I have Whitby's stainless strips and screws that I'm not going to use; you are welcome to them for $15 + postage. PM if interested.

Dale,
I'd be interested in the s/s strips. I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada so don't know how much shipping will be. Let me know please.
Cheers
Ian

[DaleG]

Dale,
I'd be interested in the s/s strips. I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada so don't know how much shipping will be. Let me know please.
Cheers
Ian

PM sent.

[FFinisher]

Gumball has the answer, the picture with the spacer on the frame will prevent the cracking. When the windsheild is attached with out a spacer the side arms tension the corner of the windshield. At some point they decide they have had enough of the stress and crack. If you notice, 90% of cracks are from the corner of the windsheild up to the side .

Nice spacer Gumbal, I actually use front end shims to accomplish the same task.

[DaleG]

Dale,
I'd be interested in the s/s strips. I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada so don't know how much shipping will be. Let me know please.
Cheers
Ian

So, I guess you are not interested?

[rich grsc]

I can't speak for what they said in build school (haven't attended) but this isn't exactly right. The glass isn't exposed to the screws for the side bars. The inner channel of the windshield frame is between the ends of the screws plus there's a rubber gasket on the other side. I can't imagine any possibility to overtighten the screws and deflect the windshield channel into the glass either.

However, the point about being careful with the side bar screws is a good one. Use a light touch when tightening, and adjust the length if necessary. The stock windshield has a brass strip in the channel with threaded holes. It's quite thin, so only has a few threads and they're really easy to strip if you over-tighten or bottom out. Also real easy to mess up if you cross thread them, which isn't hard to do since the screws go in at kind of a funny angle compared to the side bar. I highly recommend the Whitby SS replacement for the brass strip. Have used it in both of my builds. Still thin, but way harder to mess up the threads. When you install the strips you'll see what I mean about how the glass isn't exposed to the side bar screws.

Having said the above, I've read multiple cases where guys have broken the glass with too long of screws on the visors along the top of the windshield. In that case, you are going directly into the face of the frame and the glass isn't far underneath.

This is correct, the side bar screws are barely long enough to thread into the side support, no way they can go through the side of the windshield frame and rubber gasket.

[Walt]

Gum ball how did you twist the frame brackets and how far? I can't get the top screws to go in on either side. I'm fixing to replace the glass and need to use the fixes you have shown.
Thanks
Walt

[Gumball]

Gum ball how did you twist the frame brackets and how far? I can't get the top screws to go in on either side. I'm fixing to replace the glass and need to use the fixes you have shown.
Thanks
Walt

Walt,

I twisted them using a small hydraulic press (Harbor Freight version) by placing them one-at-a-time. It took some creative thinking to figure out where to put the force so that they would bend in the correct plane. The driver's side didn't need much of anything, but the passenger side was quite a few degrees of both bend and twist. They are both tweaked just below the body line. To figure out where to make the bends, I installed the windshield during one of the body test-fits and marked where the side posts disappear under the body. Then, with the body off, I had some helpers hold the windshield in place on the chassis so I could figure out the spacers. Finally, once the spacers were installed, the sides posts were bent to make them align with the spacers. The final check was to bolt everything together with the body off and remove the four screws on each side and take the windshield out, leaving just the side posts mounted to the chassis. I had to do just a bit of minor adjustments, but in the end I can now take those screws out and there is absolutely no pressure from the sides (in or out) on the windshield.

Of course, this is no guarantee against cracks, but I figured a no-stress installation can't be a bad thing.

[Walt]

Dale do you still have the s/s strips and screws for sale?
I just got the cracked glass out of the frame there is some kind of sticky tape between the glass and the rubber seal anybody know what it is and where to get it?

Thanks
Walt

[DCast]

I was curious if anyone knew if there was someone who makes the brass angle brackets that go inside the windshield frame? Mine was broken during the reassembly process. I contact FFR and unfortunately they don't sell them. Also, does anyone know the thread of the screws that go into the bracket?Frame1_zps78b5d8d6.jpgIMG_1340.JPG

[Gumball]

You should be able to make your own - McMaster Carr sells brass flat stock and all you'll need to do is give it a little heat, then bend it, drill and tap for the finished product.

As for the thread pitch, just take the broken piece to a hardware store and you should be able to find the right size pretty quick.

[mcwho]

I am ready to start the process of installing my windshield onto the frame/body. I have a roller with body on the frame and all hardware mounted except windwhield heater and wipers. I have read all I can about the windshield issues and am ready to make shims if that's what I need to do to avoid cracked windshield.

First issue is to cut the slots that FFR cut into the body as the side rails are vary tight and do not line up with the frame mounting surfaces.

Then I will estimate how long those bars need to be.

This section of the FFR build manual is extremely vague.

[Walt]

HI Bob, I had the body on unpainted when the first one broke, when I learned about the side supports needing to be aligned I marked where they came through the body and removed them and used a vice and large Cresent to make them parallel to each other mounted on the windshield laying on the bench ,when I reattached to the frame it was aligned to the frame below the body and to the sides of the windshield above, I also used a windshield from Finish line and it has been great.