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Thread: '65 Mustang / GT350R Tribute project

  1. #1
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    '65 Mustang / GT350R Tribute project

    Well, here we go - my next project has started. It's a '65 that I saved from returning all of its iron to the soil on a local farm. It had been sitting in the same place out behind the barn for 35 years - what was left of the floor was actually lower than the surrounding soil. When I first saw it, it was hidden under trees and bushes that we had to cut down just to get it out. It's in pretty sad shape - no floors, bad rust in all of the typical places, but was a decent car before it was left for a "someday" restoration.

    My plan is to either pick a specific original car to replicate or to do it as a Hertz clone, but as an "R" model. The Hertz cars were all '66s, though, but I do like the black/gold combination. Either way, it will be one nasty car when finished - all race car and ready to take on Group 6 in vintage races.

    Here it is on the day we saved it...



    Floor where the passenger leaf spring mounts - springs ripped out when we pulled it out of its resting place...



    The goal - either white/blue or black/gold... wish me luck!!!



    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  2. #2
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    I have been trough exactly what you are taking on
    You may want to look for a clean coupe and transplant the roof to a clean chassis.
    In the end will save you a lot of time and money
    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

  3. #3
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Man Chris, I've done rust repair and panel replacement in the past (and don't wish to do again any time soon) but never on something that far gone. You are ambitious!

    Good luck,
    Jeff

  4. #4
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys. Some interesting stories behind this car. It was bought by my friend's dad back in the '70s, along with a coupe and convertible (also both '65s). His dad worked at a Ford dealership and he'd hoped to someday make all three into Hertz clones. He was never able to do anything with the cars and all three have been languishing behind their barn ever since. I had my eye on it for years and my friend's mom finally agreed to sell it to me after seeing my FFR. She felt that I'd be able to do the car and her husband's memory proud.

    My plan is to build it into a vintage racer - Group 6 legal - and for use as a trackday car (I'm a NASA HPDE instructor and have been away from it for too long). I'm leaning towards picking a specific car that ran back-in-the-day and paying respect to that car and driver by replicating the look. It certainly won't be an exact replica of the R-model cars, though, as I'm going to make safety updates like a complete roll cage and better seat, and most likely won't run any of the rear interior trim.

    I've done some sheet metal work in the past and have some very capable friends who have offered to coach me through the process. I already own a MIG welder and this may be just the reason to buy the TIG unit I've always wanted. And, since everything will be stitch and seam welded, I'm not too worried about making the repairs look concours correct.

    Underneath will be all Cobra Automotive suspension and brakes - which I used on a '65 coupe I built before the FFR - and the engine is coming from a friend's Group 6 car (a nice little 8,000+ rpm 302). Since I've done ground-up builds on first-gen Mustangs in the past, this will be a welcome step back into a familiar territory and will result in the single-purpose track weapon I've been craving.
    Last edited by Gumball; 11-30-2014 at 11:47 AM.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  5. #5
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    This will be great
    I will be watching this one

    here are a couple pics of one I built years ago


    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

  6. #6
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Mark - That car is outstanding... I can see all sorts of one-thing-leads-to-another going on with that project. I'll bet it was/is a fun ride.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  7. #7
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    Chris
    I have always loved the 65-66 mustang fastbacks
    you bringing one back from the dirt is a great feat and undertaking, congrats on that
    Can't wait to see the finished car.
    You do excellent work.
    Kevin

  8. #8
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    It is a great car
    but I always wished I would have stuck to GT350 clone
    I love high winding engines like the 1 you are going to use.
    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

  9. #9
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Dougherty View Post
    but I always wished I would have stuck to GT350 clone
    Knowing your old car, you should have.

    Bill S.

    PS: CLONE
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  10. #10
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Here are a few more pics - it's bad, but not as bad as I'd have guessed after sitting outside for 35 years. Of course, everything at ground level is literally gone, but the upper structures are in fairly decent shape.

    The roof and the top of the quarters are in great shape, even where they meet the trunk filler panel. Since it was parked in the '70s, it was never restored, so at least I'm going to be the first one to put new quarters (at least lower skins) on it and I don't have to deal with someone elses weld seams.



    The bottom of the cowl tank has lots of accumulated vegetation and dirt, so it's likely shot, but the top half of the tank is very solid:



    Door jambs are mostly intact:





    And the inner roof structure / rear package shelf area is good:



    The front inner aprons will need patching or replacement, as will the cowl sides, rain gutters, and tail light panel. Of course it will need completely new floors (interior and trunk) as well as rear frame rails and rear wheel houses (likely modified a bit to allow for slightly wider wheels & tires). The front frame rails may be okay with some patching on the area where the front bumper brackets used to be, but I won't make a decision on that until it gets media blasted.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  11. #11
    Senior Member MPTech's Avatar
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    If your metal-working skills are anything like your fiberglass skills and you apply the same attention to detail, this is going to be an amazing restoration. Can't wait to see the progress.
    These cars are so cool.

    btw, Mark's car looks pretty bad-a$$ too!
    F5R #7446: MK4, 302, T5 midshift, 3.55 Posi IRS, 17" Halibrands
    Delivered 4/4/11, First start 9/29/12, Licensed 4/24/13, off to PAINT 2/15/14!! Wahoo!

  12. #12
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    We moved the Rustang to its new home this past weekend - out of my friend's barn and over to my shop. Due to "winter configuration" - i.e., lots of cars in storage, I don't have much room to work, so it'll sit on the trailer until spring when I can dig into it.

    For now, I'm content to sit in my big chair and just stare at it while looking through NPD and Year One catalogs and making to-do and to-order lists.



    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  13. #13
    Senior Member bil1024's Avatar
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    Chris -
    great project ! I am doing a 69 bird now, but no where near your under taking. Where do you even start ? I would love to do something that intense, keep us updated

  14. #14
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    man that's great
    That makes me want to build another
    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

  15. #15
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    I've spent a little time these past couple of weeks trying to decide just how to tackle this one. Long before I worked the deal to take this project on, I decided that the guys at Thoroughbred GT in Ohio would play an important part. They sell full floors, skeletons (basically the superstructure under the skin), and full repop unibodies. I figure that I've got four choices:

    1. Buy lots of patch panels and cut, weld, repeat.
    2. Buy a full floor, cut, weld, repeat (a little less), then move the upper portion of the unibody (front and rear door jambs and up) over to the new floor.
    3. Drill out all of the spot-welds on the salvageable metal and have Thoroughbred GT use those pieces in building a new unibody.
    4. Just buy a new unibody.

    As of now, my plan is option #2. Here's a pic of their full floor. I will likely add the front structure to it, as well, since the front sub-frame and aprons are mostly shot. Since all of those panels would need to be replaced anyway, it seems to make more sense to have them all welded together on a jig that ensures the suspension pick-up points are all in the right place. I'll still need to do a bunch of internal bracing before removing the majority of the remaining body from the current floors, but this should cut my repair time by a significant margin while providing a more solid basis for the rest of the build.

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  16. #16
    Senior Member bil1024's Avatar
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    Cool!

  17. #17
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    Redi-Strip in rosselle Illinois will bring that upper body back to white metal inside and out. Well worth what they charge. Build x braces to stabelize then trim away most of what you will replace then get it dipped. Last year I had them do a 37 ford coupe with more surface rust than your fastback it came back clean, saved a car I didn't think should be built.

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    I would get the one piece floor. I just put in the front floor pans in my 57 Chevy and it was a pain in the butt. I should have just gotten the one piece floor and braced the interior solidly.

  19. #19
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Sure got my money's worth out of that old Sawz-all. My plan was to start cutting out rust until I was on solid ground with base metal to which I could weld patches. Well, one thing led to another and here's where I ended up...



    Actually - all the parts in this picture are rotted beyond use, too. So, it looks like I'm going with Option 3 in my post above - I was able to salvage the rear inner bulkhead structure and another couple dozen panels after carefully drilling out hundreds of spotwelds. So, the plan is that I'll re-use those parts in the reconstruction of the body during the coming months.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  20. #20
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Phase one of the project is done - I've finished harvesting all of the salvagable metal from the car and it's all at Redistrip being dipped and/or media blasted in preparation for reconstruction. More to come...
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  21. #21
    Senior Member bil1024's Avatar
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    Cool! Can't wait to see some pics

  22. #22
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Long overdue for an update - I finally finished deconstructing the entire unibody and just took the next big step. I literally drilled out everyspot weld I could get to in order to save as many of the panels as possible, no matter how small, and resorted to the sawzall only when necessary. In the end, I had 38 pieces that were blasted, dipped, cleaned, and primed. I delivered those that will be incorporated into the rebuilt body to Thoroughbred GT in Canfield, OH yesterday for reconstruction - more to come in a couple months when the body returns to my bunker.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  23. #23
    Supreme Cobra Commander TimC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumball View Post
    Sure got my money's worth out of that old Sawz-all. My plan was to start cutting out rust until I was on solid ground with base metal to which I could weld patches. Well, one thing led to another and here's where I ended up...
    Here's what I almost expected to see


    Can't wait to see the progression of this project. I would love to do something like this
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Tim.

    Knowledge is good-Faber.

    I'm so broke I can hardly pay attention-Me.

  24. #24
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Tim,

    It looked more like this...

    Here's a pic taken from Thoroughbred GT's brochure. One of the benefits of using these guys for the restoration is that, unlike Dynacorn, they actually build each body here in the US and each is done to order. Best of all, they were more than willing to incorporate all of the sheetmetal that I was able to salvage from the Rustang once those pieces were blasted, dipped, and primed.

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  25. #25
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    Teaser before a big update on my progress....

    Here's a teaser pic.... not my car, but a few of the guys in the picture (as well as the shop) are involved in the reconstruction of the body, and you all might just recognize a couple of the others from a little hot rod company in California that made a big splash about 50 years ago - especially the guy third from the left.



    Picture is from the company's facebook page - not my photo.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  26. #26
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Back in May, I delivered all of the salvageable metal to Thoroughbred GT in Canfield, OH to be reconstructed using as much new metal as needed. Thoroughbred GT is the only US builder of complete Mustang structures (they call them "skeletons") and fully skinned bodies (offered through their sister company - Buckeye Restorations). They took my SUV full of what would have looked to an uninitiated bystander as junk and built it into this......



    Unlike the other guys who sell a complete body on a pallet, these guys use a fair amount of US stamped parts and offer the flexibility to re-use an original car's metal - which was important to me. They also allow for customization... I specified lowered seat platforms (from a '69 Mustang), no upper dash structure, deletion of a bunch of tabs, brackets, etc... In the end, I'm very satisfied with their work. I saved some money by having them leave the 2K epoxy primer off - it just has a zinc etching spraybomb coating for now.

    Next stop is the chassis shop where the roll cage will be fitted and installed. Before it goes there, I'm going to take care of a few things, including making the interior aluminum panels that will act as rear bulkheads, sealing off the trunk area from the interior, as those would be pretty hard to fabricate and install once the cage is in place.

    Here are a few more pics -



    Those with sharp eyes will notice that the dash they use is for a GT or '66, I'll be filling that little drop-off where the center speedo goes as it will be getting just a flat "R" model panel.



    New best friends....



    Overall, the process was pretty seamless. They said it takes them about two weeks to actually do the build, which is all done in their proprietary jigs. The backlog meant a wait of just over four months. Nate and the crew were great to work with and I highly recommend them to anyone who is looking to reconstruct a car or to build a track-car from scratch.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  27. #27
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    A few additional pics....

    Convertible front torque boxes added in front wheel wells:



    Last edited by Gumball; 10-03-2015 at 09:20 PM.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  28. #28
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    In getting the shell ready for it's trip to the chassis shop for a roll cage, I pulled off the front sheet metal this weekend. I'm very happy with their work. Most of the welds are spotwelds, but there are some places where they had to MIG things together. They did a good job of blending those welds in, though, and it's really a moot point on this car, since all the seams are going to be stitch welded.

    Here are some pics of the front structure - it's nice to be working with clean metal for a change.









    And here are a few pics of what the roll cage will look like - this is from Cobra Automotive's racecar prep page, the company who will be supplying most of my brake, suspension, and other parts.







    Looks like my car will be going in for the cage sometime in November, but I have quite a few small things to work on before that time... more to come.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  29. #29
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    That is going to be friggin' awesome. The body transformation is incredible.


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  30. #30
    Senior Member GThompson's Avatar
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    I think that the only thing I would want changed on the cage is that I would have the tube at the bottom of the main hoop (the one that rests on top of the transmission/driveshaft tunnel) not bent, have it straight and also pushing the main hoop out against the body as tight as it can be.

    This is an AWESOME project!!!
    George T

    Type 65 Coupe #338, Picked Up 4-Aug-07, Roller on 8-Mar-09, 1st start 8-Sep-13, 1st Autocross 7-Oct-18, finished sanding & sprayed paint myself 6-Nov-21, IRS/LCA/Koni/traditional gages/Kirkey/pin-drive rear width/15" Torq-Thrust Ds/44IDFs/Brodix ST5.0R heads/Eagle internal-balance crankshaft/oil pan by Armando/home-made turkey pan/S-10 mid-shift T5

  31. #31
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    This is completely amazing. Based on the initial pictures of the car, I had almost no faith in the viability of the project but I'm glad to admit that your progress is proving me wrong. Keep up the great work!

  32. #32
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    I made another decision yesterday as I prepare for the cage installation - seats! The chassis guys need them in order to fabricate the mounts, as well as to make sure that there is room for the side bars to pass between the seats and the doors.

    I'm fortunate enough to live near a few race shops, so I've been able to park my backside in a few different seats. I ended up ordering a pair (since I'll use the car for instructor rides) of Ultrashield VS seats. The driver's seat is a full containment - i.e., the "Halo" version with the additional padding for the sides of my head. The passenger seat is the same, except minus the upper head pads.

    Last edited by Gumball; 11-02-2015 at 03:01 PM.
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  33. #33
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Should be some interesting pics coming soon - I got the call from the chassis shop yesterday and they want me to deliver the shell to them next week. I guess I better hurry up with my pre-cage prep work - yikes!!!
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  34. #34
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    First pic from the chassis shop. I dropped the shell off there this past week and dropped by today to go over a few more details.



    Before taking it in, I installed a bunch of the cross braces and the under-dash parts... steering column, pedals, wiper motor, etc. so that they'd know where to run the behind-the-dash cross tube and the triangulation to the firewall without putting a bar where I need to put some parts.



    They already have the main tubes rough-cut and ready for bending, so I should have some better pictures soon.



    Cage will be 1.75 x .095 4130 chro-mo, with some smaller tubing used for the non-critical triangulation.



    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  35. #35
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    I dropped by the chassis shop today and took a few pictures.

    Main hoop and rear legs tacked in place - they're going to add an additional pair of rear down tubes that will connect the top corners of the main hoop to the hump in the floor where it passes over the rear end.



    Stitch welding on the front clip and suspension pick up points. Lots more of this to be done, still.



    Passenger side sub-frame connector - passes through the floor to allow room for the side exit exhaust. Connects the side of the leaf spring torque box to the back end of the front sub-frame... basically extending it the full length of the car from nose to tail.



    Rear-most down tube where it meets the floor - just above the rear leaf spring eye mount, which is reinforced with a plate shown here and with stitch welding the sub frame below. This is waiting for the rear cross bar (fuel cell protection) that will pass behind the vertical gusset to the far right of the picture - just behind the tail light panel.

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  36. #36
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    Here are a few more pics -

    Passenger side sub-frame connector where it passes through rear seat floor area and under seat platform. Just rough cut as of now - it will be smoothed out and perimeter welded eventually.



    Outside front aprons showing stitch welding. Mostly done, but a few places need a little more attention.



    Main hoop and down tube from another angle.

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  37. #37
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    Seats have arrived - here they are without the padding. Dropping these off with the chassis guys this weekend so that they can work on the mounts, too. I'm very happy with the workmanship of Ultrashield - would recommend these to anyone looking for a light and rigid seat.





    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  38. #38
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    More progress on the cage. I went over today to do the preliminary seat fitting so that they can work on the seat mounts. When I got there, I was surprised by how much more work they did on it this past week. The halo bar around the roof is in, as are the front down tubes, which pass through the dash. Also, most of the rear structure is in place, but the main hoop diagonal and cross bar (the ones that will be right behind the seat) are waiting to go in once the rest of the tubes have been welded completely.

    Here are a bunch more pics....

    Main rear structure - the kinked tube at the bottom will be gusseted to the plate that is welded to the trans tunnel and will be augmented by the primary cross tube that will be about half-way up the main hoop where the sides are slightly bent to conform to the body shape.



    Halo and front down tubes - this will get a diagonal roof bar in the near future, too.



    Passenger side front down tube as it passes through the top of the dash.



    Far back down tube and fuel cell protection bar.



    Overhead view of the rear structure through the back window opening.



    Front down tube and mounting plate (note it extends up onto the inner rocker) at the point where the flat floor bends upward to the firewall.



    Finished through-the-floor sub frame connector.

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  39. #39
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Blackberry Township, IL
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    And the view that I hope my competitors will see...

    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  40. #40
    Senior Member EZ$'s Avatar
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    Feb 2014
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    San Ramon, CA
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    923
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    I think that you're just pulling our leg Chris. That can't possibly be the same car that you had pictured in your early posts! But seriously, it's coming together amazingly well. Before I started on the Cobra, I considered doing a 66 Mustang fastback. I know you mentioned that you're doing a solid axle, but in my research, I ran across these guys, mustangirs.com. They are building an IRS unit for all Mustangs that didn't offer IRS, and the design is based on the original design from a Ford engineer who was directed to put it together for use in the GT350 cars, but Shelby didn't see the advantage so the project was scrapped. The unit is not cheap, last I looked around 6k, but its designed as a direct bolt in. Something you might want to check out.
    Rick

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