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Thread: Why?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Motorhead's Avatar
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    Why?

    Dave,
    I'm curious to know WHY FFR set up their own forum, you already have FFCars at your disposal, for the very reason you gave everyone for creating this forum. I don't get it. In my opinion, that was a bad move. Now Factory Five is competing with the very forum that 1, helped make FFR so successful, in a huge way. 2, Went through a lawsuit for pretty much just being connected to FFR. ****** knows how important FFCars is to the success of FFR, so attacking the forum with a legal suit was a strategic move, that failed. I'm having trouble seeing why this forum was needed and can see what it's going to do to FFCars. One of the forums is going to die, it may not be tomorrow, but it will happen. Either this one won't completely catch on, or everyone from FFCars will eventually migrate over here. I'd just like to know why Factory Five did this, to me, it doesn't make any sense. If it was strictly a way to communicate the changes FFR owners would like to see to the cars and the parts, it would make sense. But the structure of this forum is almost identical to FFCars.

    Cheers,
    Joe

  2. #2
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    I can't speak for Dave but if you read what the corporation that purchased ffcars has done to other forums you can figure it out. If the ffcars forum was the center point of your customer's community, and you saw more and more issues and concerns arising from memebers it would be prudent to offer an alternative. At the open house today Dave said the advertisers here would only be charged enough to cover costs, this will not be looked at as a revenue stream.

  3. #3
    Senior Member THE ITALIAN's Avatar
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    I think they were just waiting for Bill to bail - he was a great guy to do what he did for so long.
    It's a fresh start ,we all were very comfortable @ FFCARS,but life's changes are here everyday.
    The information is not lost ,it is in the members.This will feel more like family once it gets on it's feet.
    Some of the info on the old site is out of date since the tech has changed.
    I for one will make it fun.
    Mike THE ITALIAN

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE ITALIAN View Post
    I think they were just waiting for Bill to bail - he was a great guy to do what he did for so long.
    It's a fresh start ,we all were very comfortable @ FFCARS,but life's changes are here everyday.
    The information is not lost ,it is in the members.This will feel more like family once it gets on it's feet.
    Some of the info on the old site is out of date since the tech has changed.
    I for one will make it fun.
    Mike THE ITALIAN
    X2, and at the end of the day business is business!
    Mike, FFR 4263 MKII, Red/Silver, 331 and Loads of FUN!!!!
    Maybe I will Update this for the new forum....

  5. #5
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Personally I'm surprised FFR has not done so sooner, but in the same breath realize that they had other things on their mind.


    Bill S.
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  6. #6
    Junior Member Xybram's Avatar
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    Cool

    This is a fantastic move. Gets this forum back into the folds of the community where it belongs!

    And we now have EFNFAST back. Motorhead, you'll like him!

    Chris

  7. #7
    Junior Member Motorhead's Avatar
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    Chris, I know Alex. If you weren't aware of it, he was TheChosenOne recently on the forum. One of the mods must have figured it out, because he was banned just last month. If FFR wanted their own forum, why not just BUY FFCars from Bill? To me, THAT would have been a smart move. Why do more work than you need to? The forum was already in place, and has been for YEARS. There is data there that FFR can never bring over here. The info in that site is enormous! It's also part of the history of FFR. So, not buying the forum and setting up their own was a stupid move on their part. There are 2 ways to do things, the right way and the wrong way. I feel this was the wrong way and a blind man could see that.
    Last edited by Motorhead; 02-12-2011 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Xybram's Avatar
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    I know, wasn't sure if you were aware of it.

    Chris

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    Chris, I know Alex. If you weren't aware of it, he was TheChosenOne recently on the forum. One of the mods must have figured it out, because he was banned just last month. If FFR wanted their own forum, why not just BUY FFCars from Bill? To me, THAT would have been a smart move. Why do more work than you need to? The forum was already in place, and has been for YEARS. There is data there that FFR can never bring over here. The info in that site is enormous! It's also part of the history of FFR. So, not buying the forum and setting up their own was a stupid move on their part. There are 2 ways to do things, the right way and the wrong way. I feel this was the wrong way and a blind man could see that.

    Given the price Bill wanted for the forum (I'd imagine >$10k), and given the cost to advertise on, it would have made no business sense to do that. It would be 100x cheaper to just start your own forum.
    FFR cobra
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  10. #10
    Member Bob Barnett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    There are 2 ways to do things, the right way and the wrong way. I feel this was the wrong way and a blind man could see that.
    Apparently Dave does not share that opinon. I would guess that it is his opinion that counts in this respect.

  11. #11
    Junior Member quicksand's Avatar
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    I'm guessin' that Bill had some outside influence as a reward for the community he created...a great deal for all involved

  12. #12
    Senior Member OttawaFFRer's Avatar
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    I agree, this is business.

    It's also another resource for builders,owners and dreamers!
    10 years after my roadster build....
    289 FIA (pickup 28/08/20 if covid permits)
    currently building a 289 and accumulating parts needed to finish a Canadian Kit.

  13. #13
    Junior Member Mark Reid's Avatar
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    Business is business and this was a great move. Go Dave!

  14. #14
    Junior Member Mark Reid's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, welcome back efnfast! Glad to see you here.

  15. #15
    President, Factory Five Racing Dave Smith's Avatar
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    I was never offered the chance to buy FFcars. I think we can co-exist, and I think we can bring in alot of different things that other places cant. I love FFcars and supported it for a long time for $2,000 per month in advertising. I will expound on this more tomorrow, but I'm getting the stick-eye from my wife cause we're late for a dinner date... Not good!

    Dave Smith
    FFR001

  16. #16
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    One shouldn't assume anything negative about the start up of this forum. We all wish ffcars continued success. Plenty of us are members of the Cobraforum as well and it's never been stronger.

    This is a good move for Dave. He has some great ideas and we'll be doing some unique things, such as the blogs you're already seeing.

    Stay engaged.

    d

  17. #17
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Great move, Dave. I wonder also what took FFR so long but now look forward to both FFCars and this place. Yippee, another place to suck up time since I'm now between builds.
    Pete
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
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  18. #18
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    Dave said he will comment further, he has always been a stand up guy lets give him a chance .

    Kenny

  19. #19
    Member Rob J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmustang View Post
    Personally I'm surprised FFR has not done so sooner, but in the same breath realize that they had other things on their mind.


    Bill S.
    I for one am VERY Happy they did it. Personally for me with all the money that got donated to the lawsuit, then the sell out, I've got a bad taste left in my mouth. REAL BAD.

  20. #20
    MKIII #5835 Someday I Suppose's Avatar
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    I think it makes a great deal of sense as well, sort of feel silly for not having seen it coming. On the why not buy FFCars out, Dave already said he wasn't given that option, but I think also from a corporate perspective and how you want your forum to support your brand starting fresh probably makes sense, not only from a content and control standpoint, but from a cost perspective as well.

    -Scott
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  21. #21
    Curmudgeon mikeinatlanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob J View Post
    I for one am VERY Happy they did it. Personally for me with all the money that got donated to the lawsuit, then the sell out, I've got a bad taste left in my mouth. REAL BAD.
    Me too.....

  22. #22
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    I personaly think its great a fresh start, and Dave please no private section look at what that turned in to, a disgrace would not even come close to discribing it.

  23. #23
    Member Darren's Avatar
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    Why not... ?
    www.AIMFlight.com
    FFR MK3.1 7075 Delivered: 10/13/09
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  24. #24
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob J View Post
    I for one am VERY Happy they did it. Personally for me with all the money that got donated to the lawsuit, then the sell out, I've got a bad taste left in my mouth. REAL BAD.
    I was happy to assist both FFR and Bill P. any way I could in regards to the lawsuit(s), can't say I feel betrayed one way or the other in regards to those types of donations. I do feel a small sense of betrayal in regards to the timing and sale of the forum to an outside company though. I could say more and get into greater detail (actual dollars and cents), but feel that would be counter productive to this new forum.


    Bill S.
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  25. #25
    Junior Member Warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob J View Post
    I for one am VERY Happy they did it. Personally for me with all the money that got donated to the lawsuit, then the sell out, I've got a bad taste left in my mouth. REAL BAD.
    I agree, good move Dave!

  26. #26
    Junior Member Motorhead's Avatar
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    Then I'm sorry for casting a bad image on FFR. I find it kind of baffling that FFR wasn't offered for it. No disrespect to Bill on that.The way everything happened just seemed... strange to not have some communication. If both forums last, that's great really. Just doesn't seem likely to me, but I've been on the opposite side of things before.

  27. #27
    Junior Member Shaun R's Avatar
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    I'm -all in-.
    Since the old place does not have Bill, or one of us at the helm; no one is really looking out for our best interest.
    I am a junkie enough to be at one place!
    Shaun
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  28. #28
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    The worst thing about the old FFcars is the mods. There are mods there that don't even own a FFR, just trying to get the post count up!

  29. #29
    Junior Member Motorhead's Avatar
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    Speedking, you do realize that most of the mods on FFCars are mods here...

  30. #30
    Curmudgeon mikeinatlanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedking View Post
    The worst thing about the old FFcars is the mods. There are mods there that don't even own a FFR, just trying to get the post count up!
    X2,3&4!!

    Just kidding You got to admit, that was one funny post.

  31. #31
    Member Tim Potts's Avatar
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    Joe, I remember when FFCOBRA started up and members of the old Cobraforum were solicited at least I was to joint the "new forum". And that seemed wrong back then. What comes around goes around. There was a lot of info and history lost then but Mark and Dave's customers survived. FFRs success is from customer feedback not a forum. They were successful before FFCobra/FFcars came along because of the PEOPLE (Customer). A FORUM is just a House the people live in. And now I am glad that the HOME is finally in House so to speak. Why should someone else profit from a FFR forum? As far as lost info the new FFR forum will eventually become more helpful to the new builder especially since its supported by FFR.
    I would strongly incourage that new builders ask their questions here.
    Last edited by Tim Potts; 02-13-2011 at 05:21 PM.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Big-Foot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedking View Post
    The worst thing about the old FFcars is the mods. There are mods there that don't even own a FFR, just trying to get the post count up!
    Huh?

    I suppose that could be targeting me... I'm a moderator on ffcars and don't currently own an FFR. But I've built 6 of them....
    Not really concerned about Post Count.. More concerned about post quality and usefulness..
    Regards - Randy
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  33. #33
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    What exactly does one have to do to raise there post count? Inquiring minds want to know.

  34. #34
    Member Rob J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedking View Post
    The worst thing about the old FFcars is the mods. There are mods there that don't even own a FFR, just trying to get the post count up!
    Hey, I resemble that remark. But I did used to own one, and I did build it.
    SOLD MY MK III Oct 4. 2010
    1987 Buick Grand National (All original with only 16k miles on it)
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob J View Post
    I for one am VERY Happy they did it. Personally for me with all the money that got donated to the lawsuit, then the sell out, I've got a bad taste left in my mouth. REAL BAD.

    This may, or may not, be an unpopular thought process, but here's what I fail to see when everybody starts talking about community.

    First of all, everybody knows that this community (ffr) is tightly knit and when asked for help will give it freely. When I needed help installing axles on my build, a local builder came over, in full business suit & dress shoes, after a meeting and showed me how to do the axles. There's no question in anybody's mind that if a builder needs help, it will be provided.

    For the sake of my discussion, we all know Bill is well off (big house, ford gt, lotus, maserati, 2-3 factor fives that we know of, successful online scooter business, ffr forum netting atleast 60k/yr for several years) ..... the only reason I mention this is because this is not a case where the forum is, for example, his livelihood and he depends on the revenue from it to support his family because of a medical disability and is unable to work (I know a case like this, which is why I state it)

    The net operating revenue from the forum could, realistically, have probably either covered the cost of the lawsuit, or covered the majority of it, making it post a slight net loss for the year (which could easily have been made up from previous years).

    So based on that, since this is about community, instead of having the community pay for the lawsuit so the site posts a net profit for that year, why not start a charity at a local hospital for sick children and tell the forum to donate there to show support? Have a real impact on some lives, instead of lining the bank account.

    Alternatively, since the community donated a crap-load of money towards the lawsuit, why not take 50%, 75%, heck, even 100% of the proceeds from the sale of the site and start a yearly charity at a local GA hospital for sick children (e.g., like corvetteforum.com does with St. Judes). Say 'Hey guys; thanks for the support in the lawsuit. I can no longer run FFRCars due to other commitments, but to thank the community I'm hoping to start a yearly donation program at X hospital for sick children. Here's the first donation - 100% proceeds from the sale of the site; hopefully you guys contribute this year, and all future years to this charity to help the children'.

    That's real community imho - not asking for money from members whom you know will give it (some of whom, based on the posts about lost jobs and hard times, will still dig deep to help out) just to post a net profit for the year.
    FFR cobra
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  36. #36
    Husband/father/son mrmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efnfast View Post
    This may, or may not, be an unpopular thought process, but here's what I fail to see when everybody starts talking about community.

    First of all, everybody knows that this community (ffr) is tightly knit and when asked for help will give it freely. When I needed help installing axles on my build, a local builder came over, in full business suit & dress shoes, after a meeting and showed me how to do the axles. There's no question in anybody's mind that if a builder needs help, it will be provided.

    For the sake of my discussion, we all know Bill is well off (big house, ford gt, lotus, maserati, 2-3 factor fives that we know of, successful online scooter business, ffr forum netting atleast 60k/yr for several years) ..... the only reason I mention this is because this is not a case where the forum is, for example, his livelihood and he depends on the revenue from it to support his family because of a medical disability and is unable to work (I know a case like this, which is why I state it)

    The net operating revenue from the forum could, realistically, have probably either covered the cost of the lawsuit, or covered the majority of it, making it post a slight net loss for the year (which could easily have been made up from previous years).

    So based on that, since this is about community, instead of having the community pay for the lawsuit so the site posts a net profit for that year, why not start a charity at a local hospital for sick children and tell the forum to donate there to show support? Have a real impact on some lives, instead of lining the bank account.

    Alternatively, since the community donated a crap-load of money towards the lawsuit, why not take 50%, 75%, heck, even 100% of the proceeds from the sale of the site and start a yearly charity at a local GA hospital for sick children (e.g., like corvetteforum.com does with St. Judes). Say 'Hey guys; thanks for the support in the lawsuit. I can no longer run FFRCars due to other commitments, but to thank the community I'm hoping to start a yearly donation program at X hospital for sick children. Here's the first donation - 100% proceeds from the sale of the site; hopefully you guys contribute this year, and all future years to this charity to help the children'.

    That's real community imho - not asking for money from members whom you know will give it (some of whom, based on the posts about lost jobs and hard times, will still dig deep to help out) just to post a net profit for the year.
    I guess you missed the fact that the Cobra community (real, replica,otherwise) as a whole (not just one forum,but all forums and members and kit car manufacturers who wish to participate) does this once a year with Cystic Fibrosis.It does not matter what Bill P does or does not do, he is out of the picture and has his own family issues to deal with (which may have been one of the reasons he sold). Honestly, to keep bringing him in to this and rehashing the past does nothing for the future of the Cobra community. It happened, this site happened, let's all move on and make a successful web forum.


    Bill S.

    PS: Now, how about some chocolate chip cookies
    Instead of being part of the problem, be part of a successful solution.
    HOW TO BUY A USED COBRA

  37. #37
    Bryan and Blake's Dad davidct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soggy bottom View Post
    I personaly think its great a fresh start, and Dave please no private section look at what that turned in to, a disgrace would not even come close to discribing it.
    I liked the Private sections, open discussions, bantering, just plain fun. If it was offending it could be avoided, but I have to say, that is where I always went first when logging in the old site. Just my $.02.
    David

  38. #38
    Super Moderator oldguy668's Avatar
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    I think that comments about what happened with or in ffcars should be made there. This is a new site with no baggage and I'd really like to let what happened at ffcars stay in ffcars.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    Speedking, you do realize that most of the mods on FFCars are mods here...
    Wonderful.

  40. #40
    Member Darren's Avatar
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    Speedking, also I think all of the mods have either owned or built one or more FFRs. Not sure what you have against the mods.
    www.AIMFlight.com
    FFR MK3.1 7075 Delivered: 10/13/09
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