Castle nut not torquing down on front spindle

[OregonDave]

I went to torque the lower castle nut and the whole bolt is spinning so it's not torquing down. The manual doesn't have much detail and I don't see any way of preventing the bolt from spinning as the grease boot is in the way. As you can see in the photo, I've got the spacer under the castle nut. What am I missing? I've only had one beer this afternoon so I can't blame that.

Thanks.


Spindle.jpg

[AC Bill]

Try putting a jack under the ball joint, and getting some weight on it. That should prevent it from spinning.

[rich grsc]

Using a jack probably wont help as the usual problem is the hole in the spacer is too small and wont slide past the taper on the ball joint. You need to open up the hole in the spacer. In over 40 yrs of working on cars and equipment, I have never had the stud spin in a taper fitting, hand pressure will be enough to get the grip needed.
This is a common problem, and has been discussed before.

[LewPoberezny]

X2 this will sove your problem. Most people just taper the opening in the spacer in the end that faces down.

Using a jack probably wont help as the usual problem is the hole in the spacer is too small and wont slide past the taper on the ball joint. You need to open up the hole in the spacer. In over 40 yrs of working on cars and equipment, I have never had the stud spin in a taper fitting, hand pressure will be enough to get the grip needed.
This is a common problem, and has been discussed before.

[LuckyWinner]

Ok, what am I missing. Can you guys dumb this up a little. How would tapering a spacer stop the bolt from spinning?

[LewPoberezny]

The spacer does not allow the stud to fully seat in the knuckle. Chamfering the spacer allows the stud to sit deeper in the knuckle for full contact.

Ok, what am I missing. Can you guys dumb this up a little. How would tapering a spacer stop the bolt from spinning?

[AC Bill]

Obviously a different set up then mine, as I don't have this spacer.
My donor spindle was already slightly tapered. Is this a FFR provided spindle? Wonder why it wouldn't have been manufactured tapered like the OEM one??

The jacking method was common enough for several builders to use, but perhaps only needed with the older style of spindle. You needed just to get enough pressure on the ball joint to prevent shaft spinning initially. Once the taper on the shaft entered the taper on the spindle, you were usually good to go just with a ratchet..

[cgundermann]

Posted this on 3-18-2011, a little more detail:

When building the front suspension on my MK4, I could not get my FFR lower control arm ball joint to seat/tighten into the front spindle. Essentially, the castle nut would spin and I could not torque to the required setting (if you experience this, it is also difficult to untighten/remove, so - preload/jack up the ball joint with a 27 MM socket underneath, oil the castle nut and hit it with an impact wrench). What I learned, was the FFR spacer which sits below the castle nut was bottoming out at the end of the ball joint threads and would not allow the tapered ball joint stud to seat in the spindle. The ball joint thread ends at a small shelf before it transitions to the taper of the ball joint stud. If you use a dremel tool and create a slight taper in the spacer/washer to allow it to drop slightly onto the stud's taper, she will tighten right up. Also recommend using some additional washers to marry up the castle nut slots with the cotter pin.

*Also, I highly recommend you check to see if your FFR lower control arm ball joint will take grease. The ball joint is pressed into the FFR control arm and I received two control arms back to back that would not take grease. FFR uses a company to press in the joints to their control arm and doing so, damages the seal. Essentially, grease would come out of the bottom ball joint seal/interface to contol arm - when pressurized and would negate it from going into the joint assembly.

Hope this helps, Chris

[PaulW]

I mounted my spindles (sn95) last weekend and thanks to previous advice here I tapered the bottom of the spacer before even starting. All went on with no problems. I had to remove the first one to add a couple of additional shims to be sure the cotter pin would engage the castle nut and it was easy to see the the ball joint had pulled up in the spindle enough to expose the top of the taper.

[rich grsc]

Obviously a different set up then mine, as I don't have this spacer.
My donor spindle was already slightly tapered. Is this a FFR provided spindle? Wonder why it wouldn't have been manufactured tapered like the OEM one??

The jacking method was common enough for several builders to use, but perhaps only needed with the older style of spindle. You needed just to get enough pressure on the ball joint to prevent shaft spinning initially. Once the taper on the shaft entered the taper on the spindle, you were usually good to go just with a ratchet..

Actually I would think yours may not be properly torqued. The ball joint stud and the spindle are both tapered fits, it should not require pressure to prevent the stud from turning. If the nut threads onto the BJ stud correctly then almost no torque would be require till the nut made contact with the spindle, at which point the force required to turn the nut would be acting on the spindle not the stud. A new BJ has enough pressure in its assembly that the nut will thread on without turning the stud. I think if the nut is turning the stud, its because the nut has bottomed out on the lip of the taper and is not setting the taper.

[OregonDave]

Guys, thanks so much for the advice. I've read a fair amount here and on ffcars and never saw this issue.

I used a dremel tool with a tapered grinding wheel to put a 1/16" chamfer on the inside of the spacer hole. For those that are building up complete kits with the FFR front spindles, this chamfered side of the spacer will face down. As mentioned above, this keeps the spacer from bottoming out on the top of the taper and allows the spindle to seat on the taper. Another tip for assembling the front suspension - the upper and lower castle nuts are close together and you'll need a ball joint on your torque wrench to tighten things up as you can't fit the torque wrench and short socket in there. If there's another way with another tool, please let me know . . . I love acquiring new tools :-)

[AC Bill]

Rich in my particular case I never needed a jack, it worked exactly as you describe. I have read of builders using this method though.

Dave, glad that it worked out for you!

[Snakely]

Guys, thanks so much for the advice. I've read a fair amount here and on ffcars and never saw this issue.

I used a dremel tool with a tapered grinding wheel to put a 1/16" chamfer on the inside of the spacer hole. For those that are building up complete kits with the FFR front spindles, this chamfered side of the spacer will face down. As mentioned above, this keeps the spacer from bottoming out on the top of the taper and allows the spindle to seat on the taper. Another tip for assembling the front suspension - the upper and lower castle nuts are close together and you'll need a ball joint on your torque wrench to tighten things up as you can't fit the torque wrench and short socket in there. If there's another way with another tool, please let me know . . . I love acquiring new tools :-)

Could you use a crows foot to set the torque?

like these...

[CDXXVII]

I just finished dealing with this very issue tonight. Would have been a great help to have reviewed this thread prior.

Here is what I ended up with on my Mk4 front IFS

1. Castle nut would not torque as described above. Also noticed that the spacer provided was not thick enough and the cotter pin would not work properly. I ended up placing the spacer/washer provided for spacing on the upper ball joint below the spacer installed for the lower ball joint. The upper spacer/washer is large enough to fit over the shelf on the lower ball joint and tall enough to fix the cotter pin issue. Castle nut stopped spinning and I was able to torque it down.

2. Castle nut on the top ball joint actually ended up not needing a spacer and I was able to torque it down just fine. Not sure why the spacer was provided for the top ball joint. It is not shown in the manual and also not needed.

[CDXXVII]

Thank you for the heads up on the lower control arm ball joints grease issue. I checked both of mine and they seem to take grease OK. It passes through but comes out on only one side. If I articulate the ball joint I can get it to come out on another side. Not sure what is proper. Hope it is working.

Posted this on 3-18-2011, a little more detail:

When building the front suspension on my MK4, I could not get my FFR lower control arm ball joint to seat/tighten into the front spindle. Essentially, the castle nut would spin and I could not torque to the required setting (if you experience this, it is also difficult to untighten/remove, so - preload/jack up the ball joint with a 27 MM socket underneath, oil the castle nut and hit it with an impact wrench). What I learned, was the FFR spacer which sits below the castle nut was bottoming out at the end of the ball joint threads and would not allow the tapered ball joint stud to seat in the spindle. The ball joint thread ends at a small shelf before it transitions to the taper of the ball joint stud. If you use a dremel tool and create a slight taper in the spacer/washer to allow it to drop slightly onto the stud's taper, she will tighten right up. Also recommend using some additional washers to marry up the castle nut slots with the cotter pin.

*Also, I highly recommend you check to see if your FFR lower control arm ball joint will take grease. The ball joint is pressed into the FFR control arm and I received two control arms back to back that would not take grease. FFR uses a company to press in the joints to their control arm and doing so, damages the seal. Essentially, grease would come out of the bottom ball joint seal/interface to contol arm - when pressurized and would negate it from going into the joint assembly.

Hope this helps, Chris

[cgundermann]

As long as you pressurize it and get grease through and up into the ball joint to lubricate it (side with rubber dust boot) you should be good. In my two cases, I could not - the grease would come out of the bottom side where the zerk fitting is, all around the edge of the ball joint cap/control arm interface where it is pressed in. Once you get her running though, I would keep an eye on the bottom of the control arm where the ball joint is pressed in to ensure it stays put.

When you say that if you articulate it, grease comes out? Are you referring to the top where the taper end is or the bottom where the zerk fitting is? If the bottom, she might be leaking...

- Chris