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Thread: Zach's 818R Build Thread

  1. #41
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Funny how "life" gets in the way, I get home from tired from work and I think should I go in the garage or jump in the pool.... More often than not the pool wins.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielsDM View Post
    Nice work on the radiator mounts. Good to see another west coast R being built. Are you planning on wheel to wheel racing, time trials, etc...? What class?
    Thanks! Eventual goal is NASA ST2, but that's a long way off.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    Thanks! Eventual goal is NASA ST2, but that's a long way off.
    I'm also building mine for NASA ST2. Also want to do WERC endurance racing. My original plan was to detune it to NASA ST3 (9lb/hp) for endurance racing since ST3 cars run in E0 in the WERC series. But then NASA changed ST3 to 10lb/hp and I don't know if I can (or want) to detune it that far <200 whp, so we may end up in the ES class.
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielsDM View Post
    I'm also building mine for NASA ST2. Also want to do WERC endurance racing. My original plan was to detune it to NASA ST3 (9lb/hp) for endurance racing since ST3 cars run in E0 in the WERC series. But then NASA changed ST3 to 10lb/hp and I don't know if I can (or want) to detune it that far <200 whp, so we may end up in the ES class.
    Yeah, detuning that far may be a hassle, plus, it seems this car has enough chassis to handle more power from what we've seen from the few on the track so far. I will have a lot of track days and some autox before I pursue a license for NASA, so I'm not too worried about targeting a specific HP number yet. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

  5. #45
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    Chipping away...

    I made a tubing notcher for my fixturing table. It should allow me to make notches at compound angles. The frame modification project will be a good test for my design.

    20171019_231334.jpg

    20171019_231422.jpg

    I started cutting today, and made most of the bends I'll need in the new tube. Getting the notches and angles right will take a lot of work.

    20171021_182157.jpg

    20171021_182940.jpg

    I should be able to get the grinding done tomorrow and at least rough-cut the tubes. Very little spring-back in the tubes I cut.

  6. #46
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    Got the first couple tubes tacked on. This little project does a lot to explain FFR's design choices with the frame - the square tube mixed with round, the peculiar tube nodes. It's easy to make something that looks nice in a 3D CAD model but is completely impractical to fabricate.

    Good fitment so far. I have a lot more tubes to go. The bends protrude outwards exactly 5 inches. My measurements indicate that I'll have 1/4" to spare on the inside of the side sails and doors - a lot of empty space there...

    20171101_224734.jpg

    20171101_224757.jpg

    20171101_224803.jpg

    20171101_224816.jpg
    Last edited by Zach34; 11-02-2017 at 01:26 AM.

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  8. #47
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    Nice work!

    Have you done tubing fab before? Kinda looks like it. When I re-did my 818S roll-bar to make it higher, that was my first experience with tubing fab and I really enjoyed it. Very satisfying for some reason. I still don't understand how the guys do full cages in roofed cars where you have to weld around 360 degrees of tubing yet the tube is 1/4" from the roof.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    I still don't understand how the guys do full cages in roofed cars where you have to weld around 360 degrees of tubing yet the tube is 1/4" from the roof.
    You typically either cut a hole in the roof and patch over it later, or build the cage 6" lower in the car with the tubes at the corners sticking out the bottom. Then once it's all welded you lift the cage up until it hits the roof and slip a spreader plate in underneath and attach the cage to the car.

  10. #49
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    We cut the b pillar on the RX7 with a saws all, the A pillar at the roof, then install the cage, checking ever now and then for clearance. Makes it easy to install and weld, then weld the roof back on and finish the body work.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Nice work!

    Have you done tubing fab before? Kinda looks like it. When I re-did my 818S roll-bar to make it higher, that was my first experience with tubing fab and I really enjoyed it. Very satisfying for some reason. I still don't understand how the guys do full cages in roofed cars where you have to weld around 360 degrees of tubing yet the tube is 1/4" from the roof.
    No but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

    This is the first big tubing project I've done. I know I can weld it, so the challenge is the bend angles and coping. The 3D images back on post 39 are from Fusion 360. Incredible tool. I was able to print out 1:1 scale drawings of the cut angles for the tube ends and tape them onto the tubes to trace the cut line. Worked out very well. The middle horizontal tube connects to each of the ones in the above picture in the middle of the bend, so that will be a challenge to get a tight fit.

  12. #51
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    Getting closer. Four more tubes to go.

    20171110_233814.jpg

    20171110_233833.jpg

    20171110_233858.jpg
    Last edited by Zach34; 11-12-2017 at 02:42 AM.

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  14. #52
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    The roll cage modifications forced me to ditch the 7075 aluminum panel I had installed to provide some additional intrusion protection (from shards of fiberglass) in the event of a side impact. At the cost of some considerable additional time/effort, I made 9 individual aluminum panels to fit in between the new tubing to fulfill the same purpose. The CAD design came in handy again. I did not design the new tubing with consideration for these aluminum panels, so some compromises had to be made. Two of the panels required bends, so 7075 was not an option for those. I ended up using 6061. It's still 1/8" thick, so it's not drastically weaker than the 7075, and considering my body is no longer smashed directly against the inside of the frame tubes, I think it's a good solution. They are attached with some pretty trick pre-made roll cage weld-on tabs.

    All the tubing is tacked in and some of it is finish-welded. It's coming out nice, but I'm still nervous to test-fit the body panels, which will involve a lot of trimming on the fiberglass.

    20171111_224638.jpg

    20171111_224655.jpg

    20171111_224624.jpg

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  16. #53
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  18. #54
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Awesome work Zach!
    Adam __________________ Instagram @brap818
    818 SRX - #91
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  19. #55
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    Great work! I wish you lived closer so you could fab a roll cage for my 818c!!
    Factory Five 818c #456

  20. #56
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    All the panel tabs are tacked in place now. Still need to remove the paper cut patterns I glued on the outside.

    20171209_231648.jpg

    20171209_231659.jpg

    20171209_231725.jpg

    20171209_231733.jpg


    Progress on the vacuum regulator adapter. The steel rectangle is just the fixture for holding it in the mill. It's hard to make heads or tails of it from the picture, but it will make sense soon. Won't take long to finish it at all as soon as I can jump back on the machine...

    20171212_213208.jpg

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  22. #57
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    Trying to figure out what to do about the powdercoating. I'd like to just get the whole frame stripped and re-coated, but I think the cost would be prohibitive, and I don't know if the powdercoating shop would even want to take on that big of a stripping job. I think they can coat over the existing powder, but I worry about the quality/finish.

    Anybody have experience trying to re-coat a frame that was modified or repaired?

  23. #58
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    Anybody have experience trying to re-coat a frame that was modified or repaired?
    I did a 2 coat powder.
    First a chrome powder.

    SAM_1047.JPG

    Then a coat of translucent blue

    SAM_1056.JPG

    Turned out great
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 12-14-2017 at 03:09 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
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  24. #59
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    Man that blue pops! I got a quote locally. It's expensive, but not as bad as I feared. I'm weighing stripping all the aluminum panels and silicone off for a re-powdercoat job vs just masking and spraying the bare areas with something like this:

    http://www.eastwood.com/extreme-chas...-or-quart.html

    Anybody ever used that stuff? (Rustoleum and VHT have their own versions, too)
    Last edited by Zach34; 12-20-2017 at 03:00 AM.

  25. #60
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    Vacuum regulator adapter. Replaces oil fill tube on the engine.

    20171219_233228.jpg

    20171219_233234.jpg

    20171219_233302.jpg

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  27. #61
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    We made one of those as well, but be carefull, we are deleting ours (check out my comments on the R page)

  28. #62
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    Fitting body panels before I re-work the frame on the passenger's side to match the driver's side.

    20180107_202940.jpg

    Extreme pucker factor verifying the side sails would still fit. Worked out as expected. Big relief. I must have measured 20 times...

    20180107_202930.jpg

    Dzus!

    20180107_203017.jpg

    Pulled the rear bumper back to give me about 1/2" clearance behind the trans from where FFR had mounted it for shipping. Thinking of adding rear "nudge" protection like others have...

    20180107_202910.jpg

    Welded the mounting plates for the new front fenders to the front subframe. Good chance to practice TIG.

    20171226_123918.jpg


    Retro, echoing from the other thread... thanks for pointing out the issue with running the vacuum regulator. Probably saved me big time. I suppose I'll just use the adapter to attach a vent line instead of the regulator since it's a standard -12 o-ring boss.
    Last edited by Zach34; 01-09-2018 at 02:03 AM.

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  30. #63
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    looking tight.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  31. #64
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    Started fiberglass modifications on the engine cover.

    Some voids in the gel coat in these tight contour areas. Not so bad on flatter sections.
    20180128_174215.jpg

    Both of these corners were mostly gel coat, maybe 1 to 1.5 layers of fiberglass underneath. Again, the flatter sections were much better.
    20180128_174225.jpg

    I took it down to the fiberglass to better adhere to the new cloth I will lay down to bond the engine cover winglets (below). The gel coat formed most of the contour here. Not much fiberglass underneath. There was a lot of wavyness in the gel coat here anyway, so it would have needed filler work even if I wasn't bonding in the little winglets from the engine cover. Definitely not trying to build a show car here, but it was just a little too much for me to ignore.
    20180128_174219.jpg

    Some of the stuff I'm using, all West System from the local West Marine. I experimented with the 406 filler (Colloidal Silica) on some scrap before starting. Seems to work well and it's not terribly expensive. You want to stop adding filler just before it turns to a peanut butter consistency. If it's too thick, it cures hard and doesn't seem to adhere to the fiberglass as well. A jelly consistency remains very flexible after curing. It sands well enough, but you wouldn't want to use this as a body filler. I'll use Rage Extreme over the new fiberglass to blend into the gel coat.
    20180205_002016.jpg

    Thickened epoxy applied. Next is 2-3 layers of cloth, then the Rage.
    20180205_001851.jpg

    20180205_001858.jpg

    What a mess.
    20180205_001916.jpg

    Just started to prep to join these two panels. I cut out the hardware for the hinge. I'm going to imitate exactly what John (Hobby Racer), just with slightly different products. I'll probably end up cutting the lip off all the way around the panel and use the huge amount of foam weatherstripping included in the kit
    20180205_001937.jpg

    Design nearly complete on v1.0 of a transmission mount for the 6MT (may also work for 5-speed) that should lower it a little less than an inch to try to level the engine a bit better. The wacky design is due to the flatter angle of the trans no longer being parallel to the angle of the point on the frame it attaches to. I'm not 100% happy with it, but maybe I'll feel better once I cut a prototype. Would be a great job for a 3D printer...
    transmission mount v2 v12.png

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  33. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    Design nearly complete on v1.0 of a transmission mount for the 6MT (may also work for 5-speed) that should lower it a little less than an inch to try to level the engine a bit better. The wacky design is due to the flatter angle of the trans no longer being parallel to the angle of the point on the frame it attaches to. I'm not 100% happy with it, but maybe I'll feel better once I cut a prototype. Would be a great job for a 3D printer...
    transmission mount v2 v12.png
    Looks good Zack. I'm going to do stiffer mounts of some sort and it's good to see other peoples ideas. Thanks for posting.
    It looks like the two dark gray brackets are made from bend sheet/plate, steel?. Are these existing parts or will they be fabbed also? If so how are you going to do it?
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  34. #66
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    Yes, the two dark gray parts will be cut from 13-gauge 2-inch square tube. I haven't modelled the bushings yet, but they will be cast from liquid polyurethane. The bushing inner diameter is only about 30mm. I would have liked them to be bigger, but no way to do that without raising the mount in this design. Thinking of using a softer polyurethane grade to allow for SOME flexibility.

    If I'm visualizing things right, the jacking force of the pinion on the differential ring gear presses down on the transmission mount and pulls up on the engine mounts, right? Trying to factor that in

  35. #67
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    Been working on the car a bit more lately. Things are starting to look up on my ability to make progress over the summer. I'm going to tackle the body, finish my frame modifications, do paint, then circle back to drivetrain.

    The body is.... challenging, although I'm not making it any easier.


    fender front.jpg

    fender rear.jpg

    Fenders are about the same length, so that's a win! Don't mind the weird curvature-look of the second picture - they weren't sitting at the same angle.


    fender dzus.jpg

    Dzus adapters for the top/front fender mount.


    rods.jpg

    pass rod.jpg

    I made adjustable rods to replace the steel bars you have to bend for the front fenders. Lighter and easier to adjust. These are aluminum tubes with steel rod ends. Maybe chromoly tubes would have been better...

    rear deck 1.jpg

    rear deck 2.jpg

    rear deck 3.jpg

    rear deck 4.jpg

    Joining the rear deck lids. Inspired by Hobby Racer's method. I made some panel clamps that allowed me to pretty firmly and very evenly clamp the two pieces together, leaving a 3/16" gap. You can see two of the clamps sitting on the panel in the first picture. I made 6 clamps total. I used them to hold the panel so I could epoxy those little 3-inch strips of fiberglass in place that I cut from scrap material. I simply laid new mat over top of those. I have since laid a layer of glass mat on the topside as well. Results are good. I'll shoot a picture of the topside for the next post.

    Doing a lot of work to the nose to make it dzus-removable. More to follow.
    Last edited by Zach34; 05-29-2018 at 03:06 AM.

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  37. #68
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Zach, your fiberglass work is looking great. Real messy isn't it!
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018

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  39. #69
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    The dust... there's so much of it. It's everywhere. And I really haven't done that much sanding!

  40. #70
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    Topside of the deck lid:

    rear deck top.jpg


    Nose work for dzus fasteners. About halfway done:

    nose 1.jpg

    nose 2.jpg

    nose 3.jpg

    nose 4.jpg

    nose 5.jpg

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  42. #71
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    Nice work there
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  43. #72
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    Update! Nose dzus attachment:

    20180604_215928.jpg

    20180604_215939.jpg

    20180604_224642.jpg

    20180604_224713.jpg

    20180604_224719.jpg

    First time I've worked with these fasteners. They hold tigher than I expected. I thought with the spring they would feel sort of loose, but no, not at all. Of course, you can adjust the springs a little bit, too.

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  45. #73
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    Transmission mount fabrication proceeds. I've relented to some slight modification of the frame (just a little bit of cutting for clearance). More to follow once I have the whole thing fabricated. This is my 3rd design. The goals are to lower the 6MT allowing for a flatter trans/engine angle, allow fore-aft adjustment, and still incorporate a bushing. The arrow points toward the front of the car.

    transmission mount v3 v25.png

    The steel clevis was probably the most difficult fabrication challenge. So far so good.

    20180619_194045.jpg

    20180619_195729.jpg

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  47. #74
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    Working on finishing up the front fender mounts. They definitely take some significant pushing/pulling to get good symmetry. With some creative bracketry, I think they will end up looking good.

    I was having a tough time figuring out why the bottom/front of the fenders didn't seem to sit the same, then I pulled the bottom mounts to check their symmetry...

    When matching the inner brackets up to each other...
    20180623_231212.jpg

    The outer brackets aren't even close to the same place. The brackets are slightly twisted relative to each other. The tubes are even different lengths/angles. This was one of the first nose retrofit kits, so I'm sure FFR has ironed out the kinks by now. The brackets need to be flat across the bottom because the splitter (which must be flat) will attach to both the inner and outer brackets. I'll have to re-weld them...
    20180623_231221.jpg

    20180623_231339.jpg
    Last edited by Zach34; 06-24-2018 at 03:21 PM.

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  49. #75
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    Is the main advantage of dzus fasteners quick removal (1/4 turn)? I've never worked with them either but noticed a few R builders using them. Functionally, they look very similar to these rivet nut plates, which I've also used for attaching fiberglass to fiberglass:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-20-Fibe...ox!20176!US!-1

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  51. #76
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    i like your new mount design more, looks like you could use some kartboy diff bushings if you don't want to fabricate something.


    https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...s-standard-set
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  53. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    Is the main advantage of dzus fasteners quick removal (1/4 turn)? I've never worked with them either but noticed a few R builders using them. Functionally, they look very similar to these rivet nut plates, which I've also used for attaching fiberglass to fiberglass:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-20-Fibe...ox!20176!US!-1
    Yes, quick removal, and they also have a semi-locking benefit. They are probably not going to vibrate loose. The cost in terms of fabrication time/effort is probably outweighing any benefit, if I'm honest. I'm certainly not claiming that I'm doing things the "right" or "logical" way, but it is nice to be able to quickly remove/install the panels and it's a fun fabrication challenge. Besides, I need time to save up for dry sump, turbo, wheels, and aero parts, so the dzus fastener and bodywork projects are filling up that time without costing a fortune.

    Those fiberlock plates look like a great solution. Thanks for the link! That's actually got me thinking about what I want to use to mount the splitter.
    Last edited by Zach34; 06-25-2018 at 07:47 PM.

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  55. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    i like your new mount design more, looks like you could use some kartboy diff bushings if you don't want to fabricate something.


    https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...s-standard-set
    Oh man, those bushings look like they would be about perfect if the inner diameter matches the big holes in the frame I'm using. Alas, I've already machined molds for my own. Hope to pour them today or tomorrow.

    bushing molds.jpg

    I have high hopes. If everything turns out well I may be able to fabricate a few more of them...the transmission mounts, that is.
    Last edited by Zach34; 06-25-2018 at 07:44 PM.

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  57. #79
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    Bushings came out well. Pictures later. I have one more component to machine for the trans mount, then test fit.

    Work continues figuring out the front end. I like that FFR provided slots for the front fender brackets. The problem is there's no accompanying side-to-side adjustment for the hood pins, so I made some.

    hood pin tabs1.jpg

    hood pin tabs2.jpg

    hood pin tabs3.jpg

    Also re-welded the front fender lower brackets to make them mirror images of each other. I really like FFR's design of all the front fender brackets for the new nose. All the adjustability makes it easier to push/pull the fenders in place.

    fender brackets1.jpg

    fender brackets2.jpg

    fender brackets 3.jpg
    Last edited by Zach34; 07-23-2018 at 04:14 AM.

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  59. #80
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    I love your setup table!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
    Owner: Colonel Red Racing
    eBAy Store: http://stores.ebay.com/colonelredracing
    818R ICSCC SPM and HPDE Rental at Oregon Raceway Park
    2005 Subaru STI Race Car ICSCC ST and SPM, NASA ST3
    Palatov DP4 - ICSCC & SCCA Sports Racer and HPDE Rental at Oregon Raceway Park

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