The build is picking up some speed

[Kempo]

[QUOTE=VD2021;21910]

I did some work tonight on the passenger door. I was able to get it working without any mods to the frame. One thing I noticed was that the measures given in the manual for the holes that have to be drilled in the door to hold the upper part of the window track were impossible at least in my case. The manual states that the rear track hole should be done 10" from the rear of the door and the front one at 27" from the rear. In my case at 10 and 27 In. the track would stick out of the top of the door. IIRC the rear one ended up at 7.5 in. At this point I'm only holding the tracks with those bolts at the top. I still haven't bonded the brackets that hold the tracks to the frame. Because of this when the window is going up I have to push it to the outside to guide it over the rear door pillar. When those brackets get bonded and in place it should go by itself.

Another thing I had to do was cut about 3/8" of the bolt that closes the clamp that holds the glass on the rear track. It sticks out too much and was hitting the outer skin of the door.
QUOTE]

Outstanding. Did you attach the lower points per the manual? Do you forsee any clearance or window alignment to body/pillar once the brackets are bonded? I'm taking notes so push as much info as you feel is warranted.

Reports like this give me conficence about doing my doors and panels myself and ending up with a solid product.

Yes, the lower points are per the manual. I don't think there will be any clearance or alignment issues with the brackets installed. I think that they should help align the glass better with the rear door pillar. the rest of the glass fits as it should so far. I hope that wont change with the brackets on. The only modification done to the frame was trimming the part that sits against the front of the door. This was done to allow the upper part of the frame to be as inward as possible inside the door. I have circled in this picture were the trimming was done. On the lower part of the frame you can still see the excess material outside of the weld.

[Kempo]

Probably the toughest decision yet. As on right now I've narrowed it down to Crystal Red Metallic (C6) or possibly Red Jewel Tin (Camaro). Likely the Crystal Red Metalic. I need to take another look at the Red Jewel though.

I think you can't go wrong with any of those two colors. I have to agree with you, deciding on the color was hard. I finally decided to go white. Now my next decision is if I will paint the roof black or not. If I decide to do it the next decision will be a complete black roof or just the center where the roof scoop sits and the center of the hood were hood vents are?

[VD2021]

I think you can't go wrong with any of those two colors. I have to agree with you, deciding on the color was hard. I finally decided to go white. Now my next decision is if I will paint the roof black or not. If I decide to do it the next decision will be a complete black roof or just the center where the roof scoop sits and the center of the hood were hood vents are?

K,
I don't know about anyone else, but I think white with the entire roof black would really work. Especially with your black wheels. My vote is for the entire black roof.

[VD2021]

Your skid kit should be a snap with your lift. I was on a roller and you can only get the chassis so high on stands. I had to take frequent breaks, but I got it done. Along with a 10" fan I put in the access panel. I didn't install the two panels that cover the "X" right in front of the seats since I need to install/remove the seats.

[Kempo]

Your skid kit should be a snap with your lift. I was on a roller and you can only get the chassis so high on stands. I had to take frequent breaks, but I got it done. Along with a 10" fan I put in the access panel. I didn't install the two panels that cover the "X" right in front of the seats since I need to install/remove the seats.

The lift has definitely paid for itself in this project and has made it easier for the lower back. I got an excellent deal on the lift. Paid $800 from a Ford dealership that went out of business.

[VD2021]

K,
Any updates?

[fact5racer]

K,
Any updates?

My guess he is like me..............waiting for transaxle.

[Kempo]

No updates this for this weekend. I was out of town. I will keep on working on fitting the body for now since as fact5racer I'm also waiting for the transaxle so the GTM can get closer to go kart stage. I'm dying to hear that engine roar back there.

[Texan_GTM]

Thanks mmaragos!!! So far the plan is to paint the body white.

Nice! Can't wait to see it! My plans are for white too! Your kit is gen 1? right? Can the Ge 2 still have the mesh in the hood like the Gen 1?

[Kempo]

Nice! Can't wait to see it! My plans are for white too! Your kit is gen 1? right? Can the Ge 2 still have the mesh in the hood like the Gen 1?

Yes it is a gen II. My guess is that the mesh can still be used on the gen II with some minor mods to the hood.

[Kempo]

Some progress was made on the body this week. We reshaped part of the wheel wells in the front so that the hood would match the body. We also added some material on the body to reduce the gap between the body and the hood. It still needs more work on the well and on the gap but is getting there.





The roof scoop is now bonded to the body.

[Kempo]

On the doors my friend Kenny came up with the idea of installing an aluminum 90 degree angular piece under the door glass opening. Bonded to this aluminum part will be a rubber and aluminum molding that will replace the not so nice looking FFR supplied glass seal for this location. I plan on painting the polished aluminum part of the molding in black and the rivets that will hold it will be covered with body filler or something like it. Here are some pictures of it with a piece of the molding that will be used. This should help the seal on the lower part of the glass.





Under side





The molding

[crash]

I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in here or anything, and I haven't looked at what, if anything the build manual has to say about this, but when I set out to modify my body and "assembled" everything on the frame table to take measurements and get a feel for what lay ahead, I noticed immediately that the nose is MEANT to have a 1/2 inch splitter mounted under it. Without it, the nose sat "funny" and none of the gaps were right at the place where the front quarter panels and hood meet. Adding the 1/2 inch spacer to the nose brought all the gaps up correctly.

If you are having trouble with the rear hood gaps to the body, it is my suggestion that you look at tightening those up and raising the front of the nose as opposed to filling in the gaps at the rear.

Just how I figured it should be done, but maybe others will chime in as to where issues were and what they did to address them. Looks like you are kind of beyond that decision point, so maybe this will be of some benefit to future readers?

Note, mine was a Gen I body, but it appears that this issue hasn't changed with the new noses.

[VD2021]

I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in here or anything, and I haven't looked at what, if anything the build manual has to say about this, but when I set out to modify my body and "assembled" everything on the frame table to take measurements and get a feel for what lay ahead, I noticed immediately that the nose is MEANT to have a 1/2 inch splitter mounted under it. Without it, the nose sat "funny" and none of the gaps were right at the place where the front quarter panels and hood meet. Adding the 1/2 inch spacer to the nose brought all the gaps up correctly.

If you are having trouble with the rear hood gaps to the body, it is my suggestion that you look at tightening those up and raising the front of the nose as opposed to filling in the gaps at the rear.

Just how I figured it should be done, but maybe others will chime in as to where issues were and what they did to address them. Looks like you are kind of beyond that decision point, so maybe this will be of some benefit to future readers?

Note, mine was a Gen I body, but it appears that this issue hasn't changed with the new noses.

Crash,
Where does the 1/2 spacer go exactly? My hood is mounted with the hinges still loose as per the manual so this is right on time is it helps with the way that area mates. I know w i nned to measure, center and get the hood where I should be before working that area and the latches, but should I mount my cf splitter too? The passenger side is worse that the driver's.

[Kempo]

I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in here or anything, and I haven't looked at what, if anything the build manual has to say about this, but when I set out to modify my body and "assembled" everything on the frame table to take measurements and get a feel for what lay ahead, I noticed immediately that the nose is MEANT to have a 1/2 inch splitter mounted under it. Without it, the nose sat "funny" and none of the gaps were right at the place where the front quarter panels and hood meet. Adding the 1/2 inch spacer to the nose brought all the gaps up correctly.

If you are having trouble with the rear hood gaps to the body, it is my suggestion that you look at tightening those up and raising the front of the nose as opposed to filling in the gaps at the rear.

Just how I figured it should be done, but maybe others will chime in as to where issues were and what they did to address them. Looks like you are kind of beyond that decision point, so maybe this will be of some benefit to future readers?

Note, mine was a Gen I body, but it appears that this issue hasn't changed with the new noses.

I never saw anything about a 1/2 inch splitter on the manual. The hood sits against the top of the two aluminum panels that are behind the front suspension. It won't go down any further on the sides where it meets the body. At least in my case. Can you check that on yours Vidal?

[crash]

Well, here's the thing. I don't have an entire kit. I got only a Gen I body for my project.

When I layed out all the body panels on a flat surface, it was quite apparent to me that the nose did not fit right. It was off by A LOT. I then looked at some of the pictures on the FFR website and noticed the splitter on all the pics.

I looked at the nose again and decided, sure enough, a spacer under the front would help the gapping issues. Played around with blocks of aluminum and found that about 1/2 inch material put under both sides about where the fog light recesses are brought everything up to where it was supposed to be.

Now I don't know if the aluminum panels already hold the nose up in this position or not, but if you are having trouble with the rear gapping, then you my want to drop the car onto the ground so the body is literally touching the ground, or use some spacer blocks if there is anything that hangs down below the lowest point of the body, and then see where the nose height is.

Again, on mine the nose ended up about 1/2 inch higher in the front than the rest of the body. If the front aluminum panels are hitting, then you may want to trim them.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that these aluminum panels had to be trimmed on the FFR PDG GTM when the new body was put on.

[Kempo]

Well, here's the thing. I don't have an entire kit. I got only a Gen I body for my project.

When I layed out all the body panels on a flat surface, it was quite apparent to me that the nose did not fit right. It was off by A LOT. I then looked at some of the pictures on the FFR website and noticed the splitter on all the pics.

I looked at the nose again and decided, sure enough, a spacer under the front would help the gapping issues. Played around with blocks of aluminum and found that about 1/2 inch material put under both sides about where the fog light recesses are brought everything up to where it was supposed to be.

Now I don't know if the aluminum panels already hold the nose up in this position or not, but if you are having trouble with the rear gapping, then you my want to drop the car onto the ground so the body is literally touching the ground, or use some spacer blocks if there is anything that hangs down below the lowest point of the body, and then see where the nose height is.

Again, on mine the nose ended up about 1/2 inch higher in the front than the rest of the body. If the front aluminum panels are hitting, then you may want to trim them.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that these aluminum panels had to be trimmed on the FFR PDG GTM when the new body was put on.

I thought about trimming the panels but there might be interference between the rear of the hood and the windshield wiper arm if the hood goes lower in the back.

[VD2021]

I never saw anything about a 1/2 inch splitter on the manual. The hood sits against the top of the two aluminum panels that are behind the front suspension. It won't go down any further on the sides where it meets the body. At least in my case. Can you check that on yours Vidal?

It's the same as yours. With the passenger side being the worst of the two. Just looking at it, it appears it was cut from the mold too short. But then you notice that the top (hood) doesn't match the bottom (body) in length with the hood being shorter. This makes it appear that the hood side has too much material and removing it would bring it to match better......., but the hood will not come down any more there. I'm going to build the area with 3m panel boding and fg, also bringing the top/rear hood peace aft to match at the bottom and cover the door's seam in that area.

[VD2021]

Well, here's the thing. I don't have an entire kit. I got only a Gen I body for my project.

When I layed out all the body panels on a flat surface, it was quite apparent to me that the nose did not fit right. It was off by A LOT. I then looked at some of the pictures on the FFR website and noticed the splitter on all the pics.

I looked at the nose again and decided, sure enough, a spacer under the front would help the gapping issues. Played around with blocks of aluminum and found that about 1/2 inch material put under both sides about where the fog light recesses are brought everything up to where it was supposed to be.

Now I don't know if the aluminum panels already hold the nose up in this position or not, but if you are having trouble with the rear gapping, then you my want to drop the car onto the ground so the body is literally touching the ground, or use some spacer blocks if there is anything that hangs down below the lowest point of the body, and then see where the nose height is.

Again, on mine the nose ended up about 1/2 inch higher in the front than the rest of the body. If the front aluminum panels are hitting, then you may want to trim them.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that these aluminum panels had to be trimmed on the FFR PDG GTM when the new body was put on.

I thought about trimming the panels but there might be interference between the rear of the hood and the windshield wiper arm if the hood goes lower in the back.

The hood hinges attach behind the fog lights. It would require fabing a new bracket in order to have it mount lower there.

Bringing the hood down lowere in the back would likely require adding the Gen1 wiper hump to the hood as it is close now and may require adding some washers to the underside to draw it back into the body a little.

[crash]

Not trying to stir up trouble here or anything, just passing along what I found on my body.

It just seems odd to me that you would have to be adding what looks like a 1/2 inch of material or so to that area.

Shane?

Thinking the guy with arguably the most experience here with these cars in various forms might have a better answer/observation?

[spytech]

Not trying to stir up trouble here or anything, just passing along what I found on my body.

It just seems odd to me that you would have to be adding what looks like a 1/2 inch of material or so to that area.

Shane?

Thinking the guy with arguably the most experience here with these cars in various forms might have a better answer/observation?

Ahh I think I get what you are saying - you are adding shims behind the fog light recesses themselves (between body and mounting bracket) to 'move' the hood back on that given side, correct?

[crash]

Ahh I think I get what you are saying - you are adding shims behind the fog light recesses themselves (between body and mounting bracket) to 'move' the hood back on that given side, correct?

No. Not at all, as I don't have any of the hinges or anything other than the bodywork itself. I'm saying that my Gen I nose fit like crap with the body and nose sitting on a flat plane until I raised the front lip of the nose by 1/2 inch by putting blocks under that front lip.

Again, I don't know how it ends up on the frame/car, but from looking at the body by itself, on a flat work surface, it was apparent to me that the nose was not going to fit properly until the front of the nose was raised about 1/2 of an inch.

Just scratching my head as to why all that material needs to be added to the front quarter panels of the main section of the body, as is being shown in the pics. Something doesn't seem right, and I was asking for comments/observations/confirmations about the idea that raising the front of the nose may help this issue.

If there are clearance issues elsewhere that won't allow the nose to be positioned correctly without adding 1/2 inch of FG to that quarter panel area, then something is wrong and FFR really needs to know about it.

Again, because Shane has seen so many of these, I think it would be best if he could be one of the ones with an opinion/point of view.

[Kempo]

Haven't had a lot of time lately to work on the car but some more work got done on the body today. The mirrors were fitted, the body was cut at the rear for Shane's body louvers, the splitter was mocked up. Some more progress was done on the doors in order to fit the new sealing weather strips for the windows. Here are a few pictures.

[Kempo]

I got my IMI-140N starter. I only need a Mendeola to install it It was ordered from a company called Quality Power. They shipped it the same day that I placed my order and was the cheapest I could find. Here is a link to their site www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=109 I ordered the one that has the N in the part number as it is supposed to have more torque than the standard IMI-140. With my stock engine it might be overkill but for just $20 more I'm good to go if in the future I decide to mod the engine and bump the compression on it.








Some more work was done on the body. The door latches got covered again with fiber glass in order to expose only the locking mechanism. Tomorrow if should get another layer of FG and the rest of the body should be ready to come off for sanding, filler and painting. More pictures tomorrow

[VD2021]

K,
I am doing the same to my door latches. For me it for a few reason. I need to continue the production car theme and I'm doing door locks so I had to trim the upper portion of the original door latch area away.

I finished mocking up the nose aluminum. I had to take two inches from the rear of the "U" shaped piece. I also had to take some of the angle out of the bend on the front and use the top of the two inch strip I cut off, after putting about a 40 degree break in it, on the front of the "U" shaped nose piece for attachment to the top of the nose opening.

[Kempo]

K,

I finished mocking up the nose aluminum. I had to take two inches from the rear of the "U" shaped piece. I also had to take some of the angle out of the bend on the front and use the top of the two inch strip I cut off, after putting about a 40 degree break in it, on the front of the "U" shaped nose piece for attachment to the top of the nose opening.

Vidal,
I was looking at your pictures the other day and saw that aluminum. I didn't arrive on my boxes and is not listed on my components list. I called FFR and they are sending it. I will use your pictures and this post as reference on installing it since I can't find any info on the manual I have. Thanks for the tips and pictures on your site.

Hugo

[Kempo]

The roof scoop got most of it's filler today and most of the lines on the body were sanded. It's amazing the amount of dust that is all over my garage as you can see in some of pictures.

[Stage7]

Very nice project and progress Kempo. Bodyfiller dust is the worst...well next to fiberglass dust.

[The Stig]

I love the door latch covers that you fabbed. Very clean and professional looking. I also like what you're doing with the door window seals.

You've been busy!

Great Work!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Not trying to stir up trouble here or anything, just passing along what I found on my body.

It just seems odd to me that you would have to be adding what looks like a 1/2 inch of material or so to that area.

Shane?

Thinking the guy with arguably the most experience here with these cars in various forms might have a better answer/observation?

The bottom of the GTM chassis and the bottom of the leading edge of the hood are not at the same level. The whole chassis slopes upward from the main 1.5" square tube that runs the width of the chassis on forward. If you sight across the bottom of the alum pan below the radiator, and also across the very bottom of the car, you will see that they are not at the same level.......the front of the nose needs to line up with the plane of the rad alum.....not the bottom of the car.

[crash]

So the nose sits higher than the rest of the body? Even when using the FFR splitter?

That sounds rather odd. Any ideas why this would be the case?

And also any ideas why all the added material is needed in the above pictures?

Are you seeing the need for this added material in the Gen II you have now?

[Kempo]

Very nice project and progress Kempo. Bodyfiller dust is the worst...well next to fiberglass dust.

I love the door latch covers that you fabbed. Very clean and professional looking. I also like what you're doing with the door window seals.

You've been busy!

Great Work!

Thanks for the nice comments.

[Kempo]

And also any ideas why all the added material is needed in the above pictures?

Are you seeing the need for this added material in the Gen II you have now?

Crash,
The material at this moment is not as much as it was when those pictures were taken, at least on one side the other one is in the works. It has now been sanded and rounded and there is now about 3/16 of an inch of material left in there. There is now gap between the body and the hood of a bit less then 3/16.

As for why this might have been necessary maybe is a combination of two things, the first one is that I'm too picky about things like gaps and the other one which I had not even noticed until you asked why had this material had to be added. I think that I drilled and riveted the side panels that support the hood a bit too high. I riveted them in the same location that they came bolted to the frame from FFR. After reading you post I took a second look and noticed I could have riveted them maybe 1/8 or a 1/4 of an inch lower, that that and that would have allowed the hood to go a bit lower. Still it doesn't isn't that much higher than my friend's Kenny's GTM when measured from the rear of the hood to where the lower part of windshield rests on the body.

[VD2021]

Crash,
The material at this moment is not as much as it was when those pictures were taken, at least on one side the other one is in the works. It has now been sanded and rounded and there is now about 3/16 of an inch of material left in there. There is now gap between the body and the hood of a bit less then 3/16.

As for why this might have been necessary maybe is a combination of two things, the first one is that I'm too picky about things like gaps and the other one which I had not even noticed until you asked why had this material had to be added. I think that I drilled and riveted the side panels that support the hood a bit too high. I riveted them in the same location that they came bolted to the frame from FFR. After reading you post I took a second look and noticed I could have riveted them maybe 1/8 or a 1/4 of an inch lower, that that and that would have allowed the hood to go a bit lower. Still it doesn't isn't that much higher than my friend's Kenny's GTM when measured from the rear of the hood to where the lower part of windshield rests on the body.

I was adjusting my hood and noticed that the passenger side was higher. I do still need to lower and set the ride height, but I could tell something was not right. I checked the aluminum and didn't notice a problem then I saw it. The headlight bucket's inside corner under the turn signal is contacting the hinge mount. I tried adjustion the hood with no luck. After seeking advice the only option is to grind the area (about a 1/4") and fill the bucket area. I am also hoping that some of the space above the wheel and the hood goes away with my ride height ajustment, but we'll see.

I've been looking at pictures of an many GTMs as possible to see how this area looks. I've notice that on almost all of them that the aft portion of the hood is a little short. Looking at my car it looks to me as if the hood was designed to be mounted (in this area) about .75" lower so that the wheel well and the aft portion line up Or that the hood was cut short from the mold leaving the gap...........?

[Kempo]

The headlight bucket's inside corner under the turn signal is contacting the hinge mount. I tried adjusting the hood with no luck. After seeking advice the only option is to grind the area (about a 1/4") and fill the bucket area. I am also hoping that some of the space above the wheel and the hood goes away with my ride height ajustment, but we'll see.

Thanks for the heads up. I will look at my headlight bucket tonight to see if there is a problem. That gap is the other thing bothering me on the right side. That wheel well looks like it has the shape of an egg instead of being rounded as the one on the left. That makes that gap look larger. I also have a different gap between the front an rear of the tire in relation to the wheel well only on the right of the car. I measured from various points of the frame to the same points on the A arms on both sides and everything has the same distances. and the suspension settings are all in the same location an yet I have this gap in there. I have looked around for pictures of GTMs taken from the right side haven't found many of not any. Don't know if this is common and that's why people avoid taking pictures of the right side. We will soon be cutting and redoing that wheel well.

[crash]

I must comment that on my body, a mid build # Gen I, the front wheel openings are off quite a bit. The place I can see the biggest difference side to side is in the nub that sticks forward near the latch area. I can't remember which side was longer, but one side was about an inch longer than the other and it carried down into the wheel opening. I want to say the drivers side was longer, but I can't remember and I cut this area out of my body.

Maybe somebody can check and see if this is how other bodies are also.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

So the nose sits higher than the rest of the body? Even when using the FFR splitter?

That sounds rather odd. Any ideas why this would be the case?

And also any ideas why all the added material is needed in the above pictures?

Are you seeing the need for this added material in the Gen II you have now?

If you have the nose adjusted correctly, the half-moon that gets rivetted to the hood ends up about dead-nuts level with the tray under the radiator. I don't know what or if there is a reason for this other than to gain some ground clearnace at the nose so it isn't dragging across every little bump in the road.

As for how it fits at the rear of the hood to the body......I usually build up the edge of the hood vs. the lip on the body....but the end result is pretty much the same.

Yes, so far, it's looking like the Gen II hood fits exactly like the Gen I hood and will require all the same cutting, filling and grinding that I've been doing on all of the Gen I's. Yes, the passenger side wheel arch is severely egg shaped and I try to do some cutting and pasting of that area to make it more round, but have not tackled trying to get rid of that effect all together as it would pretty much require re-doing that entire side of the hood........and it's an area that has to take a ton of flex as the hood is opened, closed and latched......and I don't feel comfortable making any kind of major body mods in a location like that for fear that once it has $10k worth of paint on it, the first time I open and close the hood, I'll hear a crack as the hood latches.....and will not like what I see.

[Kempo]

Got the nose vents and the rocker panel extensions trimmed and mocked up. Some more work was done on the body today and it is almost ready to come off again for primer and paint. Here are some pictures more to come by the weekend.

[Kempo]

Update on the wiring:

There has been a change on the electrical system. I originally posted that a company called SSP Wiring was making a full chassis harness and the engine harness. That has now changed. When I placed my order I was told that it would take about a month for the harnesses to be made. That date was delayed and changed time and time again until I got tired of waiting and listening to different stories. After four months of wait they sent me the engine harness which was useless without the chassis harness since it had a connector to take power and send signals to the instrument panel and ECU thru the custom chassis harness they were supposed to make. So six and a half months,many emails and many unanswered phone calls later I decided to cancel that order and ordering the ISIS system. For the engine harness I contacted Speartech and they are making one for me. Too bad I didn't Google SSP Wiring before making my order. I found out some interesting stuff about that company.

Hope no one thinks I'm bashing SSP Wiring, just giving a heads up to fellow builders. I'm just posting my experience with them although others might have had better results. I must admit that the looks and workmanship on the engine harness was second to none.

[Kalstar]

Thank you.....big time! You just saved me a bunch of trouble. I have been dealing with SSP on a stand alone, after a google search, I am happy to pay a few $100 more not to waste time and have my parts half a country away.