Forte's

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  1
Likes Likes:  4
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast
Results 361 to 400 of 436

Thread: So it begins.......

  1. #361
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    heres the pics of the driver side, the first pic is obviously the front bolt of the lower A-arm and the second pic is the rear bolt of the lower A-arm
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #362
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sounds like your driver's side is in a good position relative to your fender? Can you post some pics of your passenger side cam bolts? If your alignment guy was focused on camber, he may have equalized the camber side-to-side which can be achieved in more than one cam bolt position. Think of the wheel hub position on the C5 as being adjustable in a 3D sphere. The boundaries of the sphere are limited by the UCA's (fixed) and each arm of the LCA (variable length via cam bolts). The hub position defines your caster and camber. So maximum camber will occur with the cams kicked all the way out, but that will only give you midrange caster.
    My point is that you probably aren't running maximum camber, so there are 2 points in the adjustment sphere that will give you the same camber reading but different caster values. As you approach maximum camber, these 2 caster values approach becoming equal (they meet at maximum camber). So if your alignment guy isn't paying attention, he can give you equal camber side-to-side but slightly different caster (such as hub moved 3/8" forward on one side, 3/8" back on the other side) which doesn't seem like much but moves one wheel back 3/4" compared to the other side. If you get your alignment in a car without a body on it, very hard to notice!
    Or your tabs may be welded wrong
    Last edited by beeman; 02-05-2018 at 09:46 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  3. #363
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bee man! Thanks for the info! And yes the diver side is good where it sits in the fender. I’ll get you the pic of the other side but I’m not sure how it’ll help because it’s not in the same position that the alignment guy left it at, it’s way off because I just wanted to see if I could do anything on either bolt to get the wheel to move backwards a 3/4” but I’ll post it if you really want to see it lol I do appreciate your and Shane’s input and I have a feeling we’ll get to the bottom of this and it may not be the cars fault like I originally thought, but we’ll see.

  4. #364
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    With your cam bolts like that on the LH side, I'm surprised you have any caster at all. FFR moved the upper control arm mounts back 1" on the Gen II so that you could get more caster out of it. The way you have the cam bolts set in your photos is taking out all of the gains that FFR gave you by moving the UCA mounts as you have the lower ball joint set in almost it's most rearward position instead of trying to set it in it's most forward position. We adjust the rear cam bolt on the LCA as far outboard as it will go to get you max caster. Your rear cam bolts are adjusted almost all the way inboard. As beeman explained above, you can use both cam bolts to achieve the same camber but different caster. If you swapped cam bolt positions and ran your rear cam bolt all the way outboard and your front cam bolt a bit inboard, you'd probably end up with about the same camber you have now, but 10x more caster than you have now....which has to be close to zero or maybe even negative?
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  5. #365
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,960
    Post Thanks / Like
    I can not stress this enough. If you have not checked already, make sure your suspension parts are not bent. As we discussed on the phone, I have never heard of someone running no caster and still having FRONT of tire clearance issues. Something is not right either in the suspension or the frame.
    www.myraceshop.com

    GTM solution kits
    Corvette and Race parts

  6. #366
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    I can’t thank you guys enough for all the replies, this has been quite the learning experience for me. I now have a good idea of how to move forward and fix this issue that might have been person induced. I’ll start the process of elimination and I’ll be sure to update you guys on what I find.

  7. #367
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Last edited by tucker298; 02-06-2018 at 10:09 PM.

  8. #368
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well she fights me every step of the way lol but to be honest some of the fighting can be traced back to me as the problem and not the car lol soooo what I thought would be a pretty straight forward process, wiring up the brake lights, was an all day and several phone call process. I won't bore you with the whole ordeal but the long story short is this. ........ I'm still waiting on the 70-73 Camaro machined aluminum housed new lenses to come in from Marquez, I'm still excited to see them I think they are dang near art work on the car, so I figured since they should be coming in soon I'd go ahead and wire up the buckets so when they do get here I won't have to wait to see them lit up. I replaced the lights with some new led boards from digitalis, they have a sequential mode too. So not wanting to wire up the whole thing (brakes, turn signals, flashers etc) and have something not work, I just wanted to wire up the brake lights and test them first. The plan was to keep roughly wiring up each function and test as we go for ease of trouble shooting. Well I wired up the brake lights and they lit up but acted really funny. Some didn't light all the way up, some lit up but blinked. Well after running down all the wires and grounds, I called a digitalis. Well the lights all have to be wired completely up first so they can talk to each other or else they won't work properly. By trying to test after every step I actually induced the problem. Live and learn, even brake lights are "smart" these days lol.
    Last edited by tucker298; 02-09-2018 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #369
    Senior Member Presto51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Catonsville, Maryland
    Posts
    578
    Post Thanks / Like

    Stock GTM Tail lights, cont.

    Quote Originally Posted by Presto51 View Post
    Thinking about, I pitched this idea of using the 1970 Camaro taillights. They're budget friendly, OEM looking, and the right shape.

    Attachment 79927

    But he wasn't sure how they might look. So I sent him this concept rendering that I had made awhile back

    Attachment 79928

    He really liked the look, but needed to keep his exhaust pipes coming out of the center of the rear body panel.

    Adjustments had to be made .
    Looking at a rendering, even if it is done by one of the best, (Eric Brockmeyer http://www.brockmeyerdesign.com/), you never really know how it's going to look on the real car, especially when you deviate from the drawing.

    So a road trip was in order to do some beginning mock ups, to see if Brent liked the idea, and see how it would look on the actual car with the exhaust in the center of the rear body panel.

    First we started with a rough outline of the taillights, to see if we're on the right track

    First Camaro Tail light mock up (2).jpg

    The look was good. Since I don't have the body at my close disposal, Brent traced out the GTM rear panel with some cardboard, which I took home to start the, how are we going to pull this one off, thinking process.

    20170520_180335 (2).jpg

    Well It's a start
    "May you be in heaven a full half hour before the Devil knows you're dead"

  10. #370
    Senior Member Presto51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Catonsville, Maryland
    Posts
    578
    Post Thanks / Like

    Stock GTM Tail lights, cont.

    I thought I would start off, with running down to the local office supply store to get some foam board, which is easy to cut and hold shape, and if you make a mistake, not expensive to redo.

    Wanted to see what it would look like with the 70 Camaro taillight assembly behind the panels

    Miss Advneture Taillight Foam Board Mock Up 3 (2).jpg

    Sent the pic to Brent for approval, it was now time to figure out the next step
    "May you be in heaven a full half hour before the Devil knows you're dead"

  11. #371
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Shane,

    I saw that you said a fair amount of GTM’s that come through your place have have infinity box electrical systems, do you have a wiring diagram for the C5 steering column? Are you grounding the +12 to chassis ground and then running the master cell wires to the corresponding wire ( ie turn signal )?

  12. #372
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Or anyone that knows

  13. #373
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    Should be able to find it somewhere in here

    http://www.tuningconcepts.com/Cars/C5/Manuals/
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  14. #374
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks beeman, but I actually have the pinout already, I was just seeing if there were any nuances with the infinity box system when it came to wiring it up.

  15. #375
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yes, all of the power wires that would normally be B+ in the column connector (Z, X & W?) end up being wired to ground and then your Mastercell inputs wire up to each output in the connector.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  16. #376
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Shane! By the way, got the fog light mounts from you. Made installing the fog lights so painless and fast.

  17. #377
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Has anyone switched out the bulbs in the headlights for a more pure white? Or done an LED bulb swap? If so post some info please!

  18. #378
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tucker298 View Post
    Thanks Shane! By the way, got the fog light mounts from you. Made installing the fog lights so painless and fast.
    Thanks!! Glad they worked out for you!
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  19. #379
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm back! Been home a few weeks but didn't want to hop right back in the garage too fast and risk dirty looks from the wife lol. I spent a little over half a day in the there and it was SUPER productive. I finished wiring the headlights and the foglights getting all the wires loomed up and zip tied. I had the wiring in the doors just ruffed in and I routed them properly and loomed them as well. It feels really good to have most of the wiring hidden in looms. The last problem spot I have is the dash which is also roughly wired, I need to make a quick call to Tino to double check on some things and I'll be able to tackle that as well. Then finally with the wiring done I'll be able to close up the body panels which is a milestone I've been waiting on!

  20. #380
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Heres a few pics to prove it happened

    the first pic is the dash wiring mess that I need to clean up after I get the system working
    the second pic is the wires in the door, finally wired right without house style wire nuts holding the wires together
    the third pic doesn't look like much and that's what makes me so happy about it, the black wire looms just fade into the back ground, so different than what it was before!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by tucker298; 07-29-2018 at 12:34 AM.

  21. #381
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like

  22. #382
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    so the video shows my new "upgrade", I never liked the steering wheel that came with the car and I wanted to clean up wiring and this just made sense, the steering wheel is definitely and upgrade and the buttons on the steering seemed like a subtle but trick idea. I actually wanted a quick release too but there aren't any wires and contacts for the two buttons on the steering wheel, there is one set of wires but that is for the horn. I want to walk the quick release around the fab shop at work and see if anyone is willing or able to adapt that quick release to have the two buttons be able to work with it.

    sw1.jpgsw12.jpgqc1.jpgqc2.jpg
    Last edited by tucker298; 08-01-2018 at 12:02 AM.

  23. #383
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    I also got my front camera wired up and tested, I got a hold of infinity box and they are putting a new tab in my interface for my rear and front cameras, the rear comes on when it gets put in reverse but I'll also be able to manually turn either of them on while I'm driving via my camera tab.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #384
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Clarksville, MD
    Posts
    232
    Post Thanks / Like
    Brent,

    The "nod and thumbs-up" from your young diaper-wearing apprentice is very cute!

    Keep up the good work (on the car and the kid)!

    -Michael
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    SOLD JUNE 2018 - GTM #327, LS3, G50/20, Kooks, AC, Ron's Tanks, Crash's 4-port HCV, Shane's Bolts & Plenum & etc., plus a lot of other stuff. Finished November 2013.

    Not-up-to-date Build Site: http://rumrunnergtm.weebly.com

  25. #385
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry for the lack of updates, but its from the lack of progress lol. Life is just BUSY right now and I'm waiting for my gauges\screen to come back from Tino\procision auto. I sent it back for some software updates that he had. I had bought one of the earlier models from him and like any good business that deals with technology he is always making his product faster and better. He has been so easy to work with, I would highly recommend anyone interested in his products to reach out to him. I could be doing some much needed body work while I wait for the electronics to arrive buuuut I'm just finding time hard to come by. I guess this is part of the up and downs of the build process and can't wait to get back to weekly updates.

  26. Thanks LCD Gauges thanked for this post
  27. #386
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Brent,

    Glad to hear from ya. I was going to give you a call the other day to see what you have been up to, but realized when I upgraded phones, not all my contacts came over. Shoot me your number so I have it to ask questions LOL.

    You mentioned that you needed to get a hold of Infinity Box to "add a new tab in your interface." I plan on running similar front and rear cameras. Can you elaborate on the background and the need for this? I just got my system in a little while ago and am figuring out where I want to mount everything shortly.

    Sean

  28. #387
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    hey Sean,

    I wired up my rear camera to turn on when it gets put into reverse but I also wired it so I can turn it on with one of the open wires from my infinity box system. I also used another open wire to wire up the front camera. I wont use a switch to turn them on because I want to run everything I can with my iPad, so I needed infinity box to reprogram my settings to add a camera tab and under that tab will be a button for the front camera and the rear camera.

  29. #388
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't know much about Infinity Box, but I'm assuming that the video signal doesn't go through the unit, the unit uses relays to pick the video channel? Are you using some kind of video switch that is activated by the IB?
    I just ordered one of these yesterday, reviews are actually really good for the product but bad for the instruction manual. But we don't need no stinkin manual.

    https://www.amazon.com/Intelligent-V.../dp/B00B155G5M
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  30. #389
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Infinity box only provides power to things, I'm using it to provide power to the cameras. The display of the video is being handled by the rear view mirror I bought which has a dual video input, which ever video input has a signal\power is the one it displays. I don't think this is the one I bought but its close to it.

    https://www.amazon.com/AUTO-VOX-Inpu...or+with+camera
    Last edited by tucker298; 09-09-2018 at 04:00 PM.

  31. #390
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    Brent -
    Have you done any more work on your spoiler? I'm planning on doing something similar, I really liked what you had posted so far.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  32. #391
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    hey Beeman,

    So sorry its taking me so long to read this and get back to you, the car has been collecting dust with some electrical problems and life just being busy and now the holidays, BUT I still plan on getting in the garage right after Christmas and knocking out some of these problems and getting back to making progress! I haven't moved forward on the wing, I just got the concept of it figured out as I wanted to figure out the direction I wanted to go with the body as a whole before I started on it. I Planned on molding it with spray foam to get the look and then wrapping it in fiber glass to finish it off. I started molding it with Styrofoam by using a carving a knife to cut it out but it wasn't the best. With spray foam, if I cut it down too far I can add more which I found out the hard way I cant do with Styrofoam lol.

  33. #392
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,223
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hey Brent,

    Glad to see you post, life does get in the way every now and again. Keep at it and she'll be done before you know it.

    I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

  34. #393
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like


    my brakes have been BAD the few times I've gokarted the car. I was working on some wiring under the steering wheel and noticed the bias bar is loose. I don't know what right looks like because the guy before me installed the brakes but I've had to redo most of the things he did so it wouldn't surprise me if this is wrong. Could someone tell me for sure that this is wrong and what it should look like?

  35. #394
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Soooooo HUGE day today for me .....and Tino lol I've been busy with life and haven't had a lot of time to concentrate on the LCD-I gauge system that I bought from Tino. The gauges would come on when the ignition was on but when the car started it would basically reboot. Had me and Tino scratching our heads for awhile and the few suggestions Tino had were dead ends. Then Tino has me get a bunch of various measurements with my multimeter and we find out that the voltage is dropping during the engine cranking significantly enough to cause the reboot. After a few different capacitor and resistor combos we figured it out! What a relief and although there is PLENTY of other work to be doing on the car I wasn't doing it and apart of it had to do with the fact that the gauges not working for awhile was kind of demotivating. Well with the gauges now staying on through out the start up process we can get the various gauges reading correctly and I can finally wrap up wiring, that will be a huge step for me. Since the gauges are now working I was able to clean up a lot of wiring and start thinking about getting all the panels back on the interior! Cant wait to have this buttoned up so I can solely concentrate on the body!

    Heres a few pics of progress, the footwell of the driver side has been a tangled mess of wiring for sometime. It good to see it cleaned up easily and the few wires left will get cleaned up too

    some pics of the LCD-I system laid out, the wiring is still rough but I'll get the rest cleaned up when I know the gauges are reading properly as well, me and Tino have a call set up for tomorrow to get those all on line.

    some pics of the body panels getting placed back on, again I'll finally be able to set them inplace permanently when I know I don't need easy access to the tunnel for wiring issues.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  36. #395
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    Glad to hear the gauges are ready for action!
    When you say permanently installing the tunnel panels, I would encourage you to wait until it's time for carpet to make anything permanent. I'd just put in a few rivets for now. Sometimes I think I try to get a section of the build 'done' like that only to find out later on that I want to change something or I forgot something.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  37. #396
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    On your brake bias......yeah...that's not right. If you have the paperwork that came with the pedal assy, it tells you what the max clearance is there.....if you don't have the paperwork, I would think Wilwood probably has that info online somewhere. There should be very little "slop" there....like maybe a couple of those shims worth.....not a 1/2"!
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  38. #397
    Senior Member Presto51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Catonsville, Maryland
    Posts
    578
    Post Thanks / Like
    Brent AWESOME Update. Can't wait to see Tino's system up and functioning like it should .

    (Sent You a PM)

    Ron
    "May you be in heaven a full half hour before the Devil knows you're dead"

  39. #398
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    well as always its two steps forwards and one step back lol. We did finally get Tinos system working and talking with car and we both thought that we had gotten over the hump and it was downhill from here....... well the gauges aren't reading right but as always Tino has been with me all the way through this and I'll send the LCDi box back and he'll go over it with a fine tooth comb and I'm certain were close to figuring this system out. I wanted THREE things from this build, iPad controlled car(got it), LS3 power plant (got it) and modern gauges that are on par with the rest of the car (working on it). Having these gauges is costing me time and I get a little frustrated with it but I really think it'll be worth it when its all said and done. Soon give me a few weeks to send back the unit and for Tino to work his magic and get it back to me. Unfortunately, with Tino being in Canada it slows down the turn around time because of customs but as always theres plenty of other things to do while I wait.

  40. #399
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Southern Pines, NC
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here's one thing going my way lol the driver door has bothered me for awhile, it's not lined up just perfect the way the passenger side door is. So I thought i would take a few minutes and adjust it just slightly and make it right hahaha 6 hours later it closes the way I want it to.


  41. #400
    Senior Member Presto51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Catonsville, Maryland
    Posts
    578
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tucker298 View Post
    Here's one thing going my way lol the driver door has bothered me for awhile, it's not lined up just perfect the way the passenger side door is. So I thought i would take a few minutes and adjust it just slightly and make it right hahaha 6 hours later it closes the way I want it to.

    Awesome and it opens with your app so it's smooth as butter?

    If the answer is yes then the only thing we have to say is..........That's your Huckleberry right there!

    Ron
    "May you be in heaven a full half hour before the Devil knows you're dead"

Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

FFMetal

Visit our community sponsor