818 handling

[tmoretta]

Finally got my 818S inspected and successfully registered in Conn. (3rd one in the state). the performance is very impressive, and handling is like a go cart, with one exception: constant steering correction is required on all surfaces except perfectly flat smooth new asphalt. This "tramlining" is a little scary and I hope I can find a correction for it. According to the alignment shop the specs. are as follows: toe in 3/32 F 7/32 R, camber - 1.0 F -.07 R, Front caster + 3.0 degrees. Would tweeking the alignment correct the tendancy to tramline, or is it the result of wide tires and wheels and the absence of any rubber bushings ( they are all steel or urethane)?

[wallace18]

Make sure you have the arms from the rear spindle to the rear of the frame near the gas tank adjusted properly. The lower lateral links must be perfectly parallel or you will get toe changes with accel, decal or irregular surfaces.

[freds]

Make sure you have the arms from the rear spindle to the rear of the frame near the gas tank adjusted properly. The lower lateral links must be perfectly parallel or you will get toe changes with accel, decal or irregular surfaces.

+1

Also I had to increase the front caster to about +6 and now it is a pleasure to drive.

[Frank818]

What do you mean bushings are steel? Where?

I think the lower trailing arm controls much better the parallelism of the lateral links. The upper FFR arm does not move the lateral links. Not for me though.

[tmoretta]

The FFR supplied end link bushings are all heim joints (steel). Where do I find correct/best procedure for assuring the lateral links are parallel? Will adjustment throw off the other rear suspension alignment settings?

[RM1SepEx]

Use a level, you can use your phone and a straight edge... You adjust lower trailing arm and the upper one to rotate the hub carrier. this rotation makes the lateral arms level out. You also need to adjust these two arms for the correct wheelbase and position of the tire in the wheel well. Then the lower lateral links adjust toe and the upper adjusts camber. every adjustment can change every setting... you just keep tweaking until you get it where you want it. It took us a couple hrs playing around when the shop was closed. Really helps to have friends with access to equipment.

[tmoretta]

To get the links parallel do I place the level on each link or bridge the links? Also, does the car have to be on the ground or rack or can the suspension be in full droop with the chassis on stands?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

To get the links parallel do I place the level on each link or bridge the links? Also, does the car have to be on the ground or rack or can the suspension be in full droop with the chassis on stands?

This is what I did:
To get the lateral links parallel. Have the car sitting near ride height.
Lay something flat on top of the lateral link bars (aprox 16" x 8"). Adjust UPPER TRAILING arm until your flat piece is touching everywhere.
Bob

[tmoretta]

Thanks. I will try that. Problem is I am using an adjustable rear lateral link, and it is not flat.

[Frank818]

This is what I did:
To get the lateral links parallel. Have the car sitting near ride height.
Lay something flat on top of the lateral link bars (aprox 16" x 8"). Adjust UPPER TRAILING arm until your flat piece is touching everywhere.
Bob

That will work to adjust the lateral link up-down or front-rear? Cuz I guess you can have them at the same up-down angle but pointing backwards or towards front of car, in such case the links are not 90-deg with frame.

[tmoretta]

So - is that a problem?

[Frank818]

I don't know I'm asking.

What is the parallel problem?

A:
2015-09-20 06.36.32-1.jpg


B:
2015-09-20 06.36.48-1.jpg


C:
2015-09-20 06.36.48-2.jpg



?

[K3LAG]

C. With the car at ride height, the lateral links should be parallel to each other.

[Tamra]

Congrats on getting registered!!! Where in CT are you? We should have an 818 meet.

I don't think ours "tramlines" like you are describing. We could definitely compare setups and try to find what's different.

[tmoretta]

I am in SE Ct. 5 miles from Foxwoods.

[305mouse]

Crazy question, What tires are you using? I once had the RE 70's? off an STI for autox. Those would track wherever the path of least resistance was. I never had that with any other tire I tried.

[brian b 36]

im in north windham no to far from fox woods would be happy to look at you rear sup on a week night or the week end brian

[freds]

To get the links parallel do I place the level on each link or bridge the links? Also, does the car have to be on the ground or rack or can the suspension be in full droop with the chassis on stands?

Here is what I did (from my build post): The caster really made a huge difference ti stability.

Quote Originally Posted by tmoretta View Post
What was your procedure for aligning the lateral links? How did you get 6 degrees caster? And, that is front alignment right?
Rear lateral links:
1.My forward & rear links have different diameters, so the first thing was to make a spacer to clip over the smaller diameter link
2. I fitted the spacer as close to the inner bushings as possible.
3. I laid a rigid (thick, about 3/16 ths) straight edge on its flat side over both links, and placed an accurate machinist type level on it.
4. Then I adjusted the length of the upper trailing link to make them level
5. Moved the spacer outboard as far as possible and repeated steps 3 & 4.
6. I went back and re did step 1 thru 5.

Front Caster:
1. Loosened the bolts around the triangular upper ball joint plate.
2. Loosened the lock nuts on the two "A" arm adjusters.
3. Slacked off front one (i.e made it longer) & tightened the rear one (i.e made it shorter).
4. Checked the alignment...then did it all again...and again... until my alignment specs were met, but with the increased Caster.

I used a "Fastrax" DIY set to do this and was satisfied with the results I obtained based on the car's handling now. I'm sure a professional job would be more accurate...but I'm not racing.

[tmoretta]

Dunlop Direzza ZII.

[tmoretta]

Based on freds suggestion, I want to try increasing the positive caster on the front end. I know that I need to make the front adjusters longer and the rear adjusters shorter. Will this result in the inner face of the triangular ball joint mount being out of parallel with the inner pivot shaft? Does it matter? Will it cause bump steer? I am hoping that going to atleast 4 degrees pos. caster will help with the tramlining problem. I believe that I do now have the rear lower lateral links parallel, and still the car wanders about on the road.

[Tamra]

You could also just switch to the aluminum STI control arms and add a spacer to get more caster. Google castor mod on Nasioc and you'll find instructions.

Have you double checked your toe? If your alignment slipped at all or if they actually did toe out rather than toe in, it would make the car act as you describe. Any toe out on the car makes it pull in every which direction with the road. Have you raised the ride height at all since the alignment? We've found that raising the car gives it a ton of toe out.

Also, not sure how long your car has been on the road, but we've found that our FFR springs are settling in uneven ways, causing the ride heights to be different from side to side. This will also change your alignment quite a bit.

We have toe plates in case you want to swing by sometime -we'd be happy to check your alignment for you. We'll be around on Sunday if that works for you.

[tmoretta]

Thanks Tamra. Will probably take you up on the offer some time. Not soon however. I am my very sick wife's care giver and my time is not my own.

By the way. I just re-adjusted the suspension alignment of the car front and rear. I increased the front caster to 4 degrees positive. The tramlining appears to be gone and the car handles much more confidently. Only problem is that now there is almost no clearance for my front roll bar. I have ground some steel off of the bar, but if it is touching any where during suspension movement I think I will just remove it.