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Thread: Charcoal canister

  1. #1
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    Charcoal canister

    Thanks to Jeff Kleiner I used his design for a charcoal canister love this blog!

    image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

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    Dave,

    Did you attach that to the vent line to remove fumes or what was the application? Interesting idea.

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    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    I am going to use a vapor canister attached to the fuel tank vent on one side and the LS purge on the other. My question is: Does the canister care which position it is mounted in vertical, horizontal, or some where in between? IMG_1049.JPG
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

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    I'd stick with the vertical mount, just to be safe. How are you going to control the purge? My LS3 came with the solenoid purge valve, but there's no ECM provision to control the valve, so I just removed it. I believe that the normal purge time is very brief, soon after the engine is started.

    I have a high mounted roll over valve, since my tank sits a lot lower than my gas cap, connected to a PVC pipe carbon cannister, with a vent hose routed outside the car. There is no purge. The hope is that the carbon absorbs vapor when the car is not being used and the incoming air for the tank purges the canister into the gas tank as the car is driven.

    Of course the canister does nothing to catch vapors while filling the tank. I have a separate hose from the top of the tank to just below the filler cap opening to expel air quickly and allow fast filling with no fuel burping.
    Last edited by DaveS53; 02-13-2018 at 09:43 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthTedious View Post
    Dave,

    Did you attach that to the vent line to remove fumes or what was the application? Interesting idea.
    The idea was the charcoal would prevent the fumes from entering the garage. I did attach the vent to the canister. It works great but I did not put the canister under the car so when I fill the car up the fumes enter the car. I did not think of it because I was not going to enclose the car. I am going to move it this winter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    I'd stick with the vertical mount, just to be safe. How are you going to control the purge? My LS3 came with the solenoid purge valve, but there's no ECM provision to control the valve, so I just removed it. I believe that the normal purge time is very brief, soon after the engine is started.

    I have a high mounted roll over valve, since my tank sits a lot lower than my gas cap, connected to a PVC pipe carbon cannister, with a vent hose routed outside the car. There is no purge. The hope is that the carbon absorbs vapor when the car is not being used and the incoming air for the tank purges the canister into the gas tank as the car is driven.

    Of course the canister does nothing to catch vapors while filling the tank. I have a separate hose from the top of the tank to just below the filler cap opening to expel air quickly and allow fast filling with no fuel burping.
    I will check the ecm and harness for purge (I haven't taken it out of the box yet). I don't know why the canister would not work when the tank is filling. It seems that as fuel enters the tank, the displaced air/vapors in the tank would be expelled through the vent to the canister. Am I thinking of this the wrong way? After research, I did find a marine reference that says the canister can be mounted in any position. That was my thinking, since vapor basically doesn't care about gravity.
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

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    Most people install a roll over valve on the tank vent. They work fine to let enough air into the tank to replace used fuel, but they are totally inadequate for letting air out quickly during fueling. That's why many people have fuel burping problems during fill up. I've never been able to get reliable info on how modern cars route fill up vapors through the charcoal cannister. There has to be little resistance to flow or the fill tube will burp. I also haven't seen if new cars have roll over valves.

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    Dave, you say there are issues with air exiting the tank when filling. Is this due to gas nozzle sealing the gas filling port?
    Here we have no bellows seals on the gas nozzle so the air and fumes should escape as fast as the fuel fills the tank.

    The LS ECM doesn't have an electrical connector for the engine purge valve. I'll connect the canister to the valve and make a simple circuit to power the valve so the canister can be purged.

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    Is the steel wool used as a plug, bottom and top, filled with activated carbon? I like that. I was going to source one off a car but that’ll actually look better. Where are the plans?

    I, too, want to try to route mine to the purge valve but unsure if I can turn it on in the controls pack ecu for the coyote. Got some research to do on that. The valve is there, as is the wiring. If I can make it work, I’ll run a vent to it.

    For those wondering about if a canister like this will work. I have one off a 91 mustang on my mk4, and get no gas smell in garage at all. It was bad before i installed it. I do not have it plumber to any purge or the motor. It just vents to atmosphere. This should cure your garage gas smell issue.
    '33 Hot Rod
    Ordered: 3/25/17. Delivered: 5/6/17. 1st start: 8/24/18

    MK4 Roadster
    Ordered: 7/10/13. Delivered: 8/20/13. Completed: 10/26/15.
    I did everything except spray it. She ain't perfect, but she's mine.

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    Looking into the 2 big open ports at the top of the canister it looks like some type of media that is used in an oil filter. That's all I can see, I assume the rest of the canister is packed with charcoal. Never cut one open to see.
    I finished plumbing it into the purge valve up at the engine today.
    I will need to get an electrical connector for the valve, then decide how I want the valve to be operated. Either manually on a timer or automatically for a minute or so every time the engine is started.

  11. #11
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Looking into the 2 big open ports at the top of the canister it looks like some type of media that is used in an oil filter. That's all I can see, I assume the rest of the canister is packed with charcoal. Never cut one open to see.
    I finished plumbing it into the purge valve up at the engine today.
    I will need to get an electrical connector for the valve, then decide how I want the valve to be operated. Either manually on a timer or automatically for a minute or so every time the engine is started.
    I plumbed the canister to the purge valve also and located a pigtail at Advanced Auto Parts. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to operate it.
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  12. #12
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    Where do I find

    Quote Originally Posted by Niagara Dave View Post
    Thanks to Jeff Kleiner I used his design for a charcoal canister love this blog!

    image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg
    The design? My search-fu is not working

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    Yes I’d like the plans or parts list also. Or does Jeff sell them? Otherwise, I’m gonna design my own.
    '33 Hot Rod
    Ordered: 3/25/17. Delivered: 5/6/17. 1st start: 8/24/18

    MK4 Roadster
    Ordered: 7/10/13. Delivered: 8/20/13. Completed: 10/26/15.
    I did everything except spray it. She ain't perfect, but she's mine.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACMAN View Post
    I plumbed the canister to the purge valve also and located a pigtail at Advanced Auto Parts. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to operate it.

    Andy, got a Adv Auto p/n?

    I've been working on the Unisteer mount....pics tomorrow.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Andy, got a Adv Auto p/n?

    I've been working on the Unisteer mount....pics tomorrow.
    Will this part fit my car? Add a vehicle here to make sure.
    Home Search results for "pigtails & sockets 2 wire" Dorman - TECHoice Pigtail -Evap. Canister Vent Valve Solenoid , Red, 2-way with Leads
    Dorman - TECHoice Pigtail -Evap. Canister Vent Valve Solenoid , Red, 2-way with Leads
    No Reviews
    Part #645-631 10641994_dec_645631_pri_larg.jpg
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  16. #16
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Andy, got a Adv Auto p/n?

    I've been working on the Unisteer mount....pics tomorrow.


    Ad feedback


    I apparently didn't save the receipt but I also found this one on Amazon. The one above is from Advanced. This one is on Amazon.

    APDTY 756742 Wiring Harness Pigtail Connector 2-Way Wire Fits Numerous Components Including Evap Canister Vent Valve Solenoid (Replaces GM 12101858, 13585860, 22687059, PT2784, PT250)
    Roll over image to zoom in
    APDTY
    APDTY 756742 Wiring Harness Pigtail Connector 2-Way Wire Fits Numerous Components Including Evap Canister Vent Valve Solenoid (Replaces GM 12101858, 13585860, 22687059, PT2784, PT250)
    Last edited by HVACMAN; 04-21-2018 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Too Much Information
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  17. #17
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    Sorry guys I did not see this. I used stainless steel wool at each end and used charcoal from a fish tank filter in the middle. I get no smell in the garage. It has worked for two years.

  18. #18
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    Andy, thanks for the purge valve connector info.

  19. #19
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Andy, thanks for the purge valve connector info.
    Your welcome. Let me know if you figure out a way to power it and I will do the same.
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  20. #20

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    I'm interested in this thread, especially because I've had a half-full gas tank for 4+ months now, in my attached garage, and I've never smelt the gas.. and I just have an open-ended breather hose coming off the tank. I keep expecting to do something, but so far I don't see the need. Is that unusual?
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  21. #21
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    I just spoke with the GM Technical hot line about the canister purge. They stated that the ECM for the LS's are not programed for canister purge, with the exception of the E-Rod version. That is why there is no connector for the purge solenoid. So I am back to square one, unless someone else has come up with a solution.
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  22. #22
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    This looks like it may be what we need. Please correct me if I'm wrong. https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-R.../dp/B00PD65UGA This is the manual. http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/docum...onal_Timer.pdf See Figure 2 #2
    Last edited by HVACMAN; 05-01-2018 at 03:13 PM. Reason: additional information
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  23. #23
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    Andy,
    That certainly looks like it will work.
    Any idea how long the engine should be running before the purge valve opens, and how long the valve should be opened for?

  24. #24
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Andy,
    That certainly looks like it will work.
    Any idea how long the engine should be running before the purge valve opens, and how long the valve should be opened for?
    I'm not exactly sure how long it should be open but when I spoke to the GM rep, his statement was, that it is initiated for several seconds at every engine start up. I got the impression that it is not critical. Since it terminates behind the throttle plate and it is unmetered air, I would assume it would not be open long.
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

  25. #25
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    The engine probably doesn't go into close loop operation until it's partially warmed up so a 20-30 sec purge should be long enough.

  26. #26
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    The engine probably doesn't go into close loop operation until it's partially warmed up so a 20-30 sec purge should be long enough.
    Agreed
    33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
    LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
    Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.

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