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Thread: 818C with Ford Ecoboost

  1. #41
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    I have had interest in a 818 and really would love to see the Ecoboost in the car or at least an option to run one. I been keeping tabs on this and figured I would join to share my knowledge of the Ecoboost platform.

    I have a Focus ST which is tuned and running full bolt-ons with the stock turbo. I use it daily, at AutoX, and Track Days. I have put over 40k hard miles on the car and it still funs smooth.

    There are 2 motor options which could be a great fit to this platform.

    2.0 Ecoboost
    The stock turbo on this engine is small (Borg Warner K03) and hits peak boost (23psi) around 2700rpm and drops down to about 14psi at redline (6500rpm). The engine does not have forged internals and suffers from something called LSPI which all Direct-Injection engines can have. This means that while you want to feel that torque down low it causes the engine to be under serious stress which can cause cylinder temps to rise and the ringlands to melt. But if driven properly and prevent alot of low RPM high boost situations (typically staying above 3k in 5th and 6th gear) the engine can handle a hell of a beating.

    My car puts down 287whp/370wtq on a blend of E30, for those who want to run E85 it just isn't possible with this engine unless you do aux fuel (add additional port injection) The high pressure fuel pump is just not able to flow enough fuel to keep the AFRs right.

    Those who track the car haven't ran into any issues with Oil starvation with the Ecoboost 2.0 since Ford does put baffle/windage tray in the oil pan. We do run into issues with oil temps getting a bit high because of the tiny turbo being pushed really hard and dumping its heat back into the oil system. This can be resolved by a small oil cooler.

    The Ecoboost 2.0 does have a kit to convert it to longitudinal.
    kit here: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6006-20

    2.3 Ecoboost
    This engine is the same engine they use in the Ecoboost Mustang and the RS, if you look at dyno charts the curves are the same, just different power levels.

    There have been known issues with this engine cracking and leaking coolant, it is actually a weaker block than the Ecoboost 2.0, with that said they make a 2.3 crank to use with the 2.0 block

    Also some situation the 2.3 block has even cracked under stock power levels and tune. And with pushing the platform you even have cases of the 2.3 head lifting a bit from the block.


    Intercoolers
    The factory intercoolers for these engines are not great at all, the RS intercooler is better than all of them, but it is still barely acceptable. The intercooler heatsoaks very quickly and can take time to cool back down.

    Engine Head
    Both the 2.0 and 2.3 heads are what we refer to as Headifold, the exhaust manifold is built into the head and there is only one big exhaust port. The 2.0 is designed for the use with a single scroll turbo, and the 2.3 is designed for use with a twin-scroll.

    There is an aftermarket head available for the 2.0 which goes back to being a traditional head with the need for a exhaust manifold/header.

    Transmission
    The Tranmissions used in the Focus ST is actually a Getrag 6MTT450 which is a very strong and small unit. It is a 3 shaft design and 5th,6th,R have a different final drive ratio than 1st through 4th.

    There is a proper LSD available for this transmission from OSGiken, Quaife, and mFactory.

    The transmission is holding up just fine to STs that are running 400+whp without any issue. And the axles can handle the stress of launching the Focus ST on slicks without any concern, they are overly built.

    The way the 2.0 Ecoboost and Transmission sits in the Focus ST allows for it to sit pretty low. Since the transmission is self contained to the driver side, the engine takes up the passenger side of the engine bay. From the bottom you have full access to the oilpan and the transmission is not in the way.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    Tony in our Conference racing ST class we've had three: Steve Clinton's STI, Michael Contatore's STI, and my Legacy GT. All three spun bearings. Steve and Michael have sold/are selling their STIs and moved on to other non Subaru cars.
    Additionally I spun a bearing in my Spec B EJ257 at ORP. That engine had the full KillerBee setup.
    So there is some data, albeit anecdotal.
    I quit the EJ life too - I'm quoting you out of 01/2016 but the song remains the same. I mean I was Suabru or die for a while but I finally crossed that line on the repairs. Too much time running on 3 cylinders...

    Where we are now 05/2019 the 2.3Eco is plentiful used and there is hotter version on the way for the Mustang too.

    ss

  4. #43
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  5. #44
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    FFR's Ecoboost install fizzled out. Likely required chassis modifications or something else significant but they didn't share why exactly. Unfortunately the 818 does not accommodate anything but a flat 4/6 very easily because of the way the engine bay chassis structure is. Boxers are a unique shape and this is unfortunate for people not wanting a Subaru drivetrain.

    I personally wish FFR had gone with some sort of inline 4 engine donor instead because it would open up different engine options but it is what it is at this point unless/until they redesign it.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsfourwheeler View Post
    I personally wish FFR had gone with some sort of inline 4 engine donor instead because it would open up different engine options but it is what it is at this point unless/until they redesign it.
    You can see why FFR went with the Subaru drivetrain because sourcing a longitudinal rear mount transaxle is IMO the hardest part of the entire drivetrain. The list of OEM installation opportunities there is truly short and many of those the cost is exceptional. That said I am in complete agreement with you. I fully believe the room is there for an inline 4 it just was not engineered for it at the outset. Maybe they could do an update to the rear frame assuming the Subaru drivetrain for the evertyhing else but leave some flexibility at the engine mounting.

    I am subscribed to Retro Racing's build thread, he is in the process of ditching the Subaru boxer and mounting up a Honda K series engine. It is a great read overall and I am interested in seeing how it turns out.

    ss

  7. #46
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    We are finished with the Subaru engines for racing, we will be heading down the path of a Eco Boost 2.3L engine in the 818R, they now have a control system, so for 8K I should be able to get 2.3 eco boost, control system and transaxle adapter and then a lot of work refitting and then to figure out the intercooler.
    Tony Nadalin
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    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  8. #47
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    Did you ever see FFR's 818 with the Ecoboost? I can't remember if they had a 5 or 6-speed transmission in it, but it was rubbing against the grill opening in the rear bumper. I think you'll need to make at least 1.5-2 inches more room in front of the motor.

    I feel like FFR was really excited about using that engine, but seemed to abruptly stop promoting it after they put it in that car for some reason. Maybe you can coax some advice from Jim or Tony?
    Last edited by Zach34; 06-20-2019 at 02:02 AM.

  9. #48
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    Why does no one put a boxer cayman engine/trans in?

  10. #49
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brd.Prey View Post
    Why does no one put a boxer cayman engine/trans in?
    Price? A quick ebay glance shows used engines go for $7-12k, trans $1-2k and that's before you start replacing worn out bits - clutch, timing belt, etc. You'll probably need custom axles and some sort of engine management as well. I'm sure it can be done but it adds up quick.

  11. #50
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    Has anyone considered a power plant from a front wheel drive setup? It looks like one may fit without a lot of mods. There are some pretty good combinations out there. Something like Lancia used on the Stratos, transversely mounted. That way, you could ditch the Subie trans too.

  12. #51
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    Did you ever see FFR's 818 with the Ecoboost? I can't remember if they had a 5 or 6-speed transmission in it, but it was rubbing against the grill opening in the rear bumper. I think you'll need to make at least 1.5-2 inches more room in front of the motor.

    I feel like FFR was really excited about using that engine, but seemed to abruptly stop promoting it after they put it in that for some reason. Maybe you can coax some advice from Jim or Tony?
    I looked at it when I picked up my 818R kit. It was a Subi 6 speed. It touched the back grill which was already pushed out to be flush with the outside of the body (not indented like the kit is normally). Plus it was stuffed right up against the firewall. In addition it sat quite high, I'm not sure it would fit in the 818S or R without lowering it in the chassis. They had it in a coupe so there was room up top, I don't remember if the bars over the engine were modified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brd.Prey View Post
    Why does no one put a boxer cayman engine/trans in?
    Been thinking about it a lot! but the $$ involved make it not as attractive.

    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    Price? A quick ebay glance shows used engines go for $7-12k, trans $1-2k and that's before you start replacing worn out bits - clutch, timing belt, etc. You'll probably need custom axles and some sort of engine management as well. I'm sure it can be done but it adds up quick.
    Nailed it!

    Quote Originally Posted by lance corsi View Post
    Has anyone considered a power plant from a front wheel drive setup? It looks like one may fit without a lot of mods. There are some pretty good combinations out there. Something like Lancia used on the Stratos, transversely mounted. That way, you could ditch the Subie trans too.
    I always wondered that myself. Having a Lotus Elise with a transverse mounted Toyota 4 cylinder and Toyota transaxle, it seems very doable. I'm sure there are stout, inexpensive combinations that would work well.

    Maybe we should start a new thread to brain storm different combinations?
    Last edited by Hobby Racer; 06-18-2019 at 08:14 AM.
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018

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  14. #52
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    As it is the subaru engine is aginst the rear firewall, and also engine stands high with the stock intercooler, I will have to make a new rear deck lid, I'm sure of that, but looking at things the transmission will stay in same place (I will use the 5sp) and will have to figure out the engine mounts and the cross brace issue. I don't know yet if I will go with a new engine and control pack or a wrecked mustang 2.3L with a control pack. The transaxle adapter plate is a little pricy at $1200, but I only see one source for those right now.
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  15. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance corsi View Post
    Has anyone considered a power plant from a front wheel drive setup? It looks like one may fit without a lot of mods. There are some pretty good combinations out there. Something like Lancia used on the Stratos, transversely mounted. That way, you could ditch the Subie trans too.
    I would love to see somebody do that. There are some great transverse-mount engine/trans combos out there. My guess is that it will require completely re-working the frame between the engine/trans and wheels. It's probably easier to re-work the frame in front of the engine for more room, which only means figuring out another fuel tank option instead of potentially re-locating suspension points.

  16. #54
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Imagine this in an 818

    https://performance.ford.com/enthusi...id=FP_FASTNEWS

    Even though it wouldn't fit...... And 900hp would be unusable
    Last edited by flynntuna; 09-30-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  17. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    I saw it too on my visit last week. It is a Subaru 6-speed for sure. The rear of the transmission is rubbing the mesh screen installed in the rear bumper. I don't think the car has been driven much, and I'm sure they're still working on fitment issues. It definitely fits, but it's super tight. It just barely clears the crossbrace - didn't see if they had spaced that back any more.

    If I were going to install one of these engines in a new build right now, I would plan on re-working the fuel tank area of the frame to push the engine forward about and inch and a half. There are some 1.5" square frame members that would have to be re-positioned. FFR may come up with a better solution, though.

    If the V6 is shorter, that could be the ticket. It would look gargantuan in the car.
    So say I was too figuratively source a 3.5 from a Taurus, flex or explorer and relocated the fuel cell to the front. Sourced a adapter plate from subie gears and a control pack for the ECU. Do you think it'd fit? What else would be an issue?

  18. #56
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    The explorer, flex, Taurus’s are FWD and are not designed to be installed forward facing. The motor mounts, front assembly etc would all have to be reworked. You want a 3.5 from an F150.

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  20. #57
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    Welp back to the drawing board I go lol thank you

  21. #58
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    I am swapping a 3.5EB into a 64 Falcon, I can say that the V6 would be a really tough swap into a 818(not impossible but a ton of work). The engine is 28 inches wide at the turbos (26 at the Cam covers if I remember correctly) and the engine is tall. A I4 would be a much easier fit if the length isn't too much more than the Subaru.

  22. #59
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    anyone know where they got the engine cover from?
    just learning... planning... scheming
    http://cobradreams.com

  23. #60
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if the 2.3l ecoboost with a dry sump will fit under the roadster engine cover.

    https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-per...All%20Products

    https://www.mountuneusa.com/mountune...63-eco-2.3.htm

  24. #61
    Senior Member D Clary's Avatar
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    I swapped a 3.5 Ecoboost into a Fox body Mustang. It is to long and wide for the 818. ford has discontinued the control pack for the 2.0 and offers it for the 2.3. If you go to Ford performance parts crate engines they give you every dimension of the engines. Any thoughts on a Hayabusa Turbo?

  25. #62
    Senior Member DSR-3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Clary View Post
    Any thoughts on a Hayabusa Turbo?
    Yes, hell yes! I built and raced a Yamaha R1 powered car for years, and was seriously considering a bike engine in the 818 at the start. Then as I started to learn about Subaru things I found the H6 "option" and fixed on that. I have to admit that a rotary engine install still intrigues me too... Radical cars (and others?) make a reverse system for bike engines do it!
    818S #332, EZ30R H6, California licensed 01/2019

  26. #63
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    The thought of a twin turbo 6 cylinder just seemed so cool and slightly tangible

  27. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CerealSavage View Post
    The thought of a twin turbo 6 cylinder just seemed so cool and slightly tangible
    People have successfully fit a 6 cylinder (H6). Twin turbos will be more of a challenge, I think Wayne built a single turbo H6 tho (EZ30D?).

  28. #65
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    Oh that's sick! Im new to the forums could you post the link to that thread I'd like to check that out! I found the one when they figured out it fit I think??

  29. #66
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  30. #67
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    Just watched the video of it on the dyno, it sounds beautiful wow.

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