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Thread: 818C with Ford Ecoboost

  1. #1
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    818C with Ford Ecoboost

    On Saturday at FFR I saw an 818C equipped with the 4cyl Ford Ecoboost and can say that it fills out the engine bay quite nice and looks killer under the hatch glass! No info on how it drives yet. Anyone know the price for a crate 4-cylinder ecoboost? Having this powerful (300+ hp?) American motor in this car is going to make a formidable machine! I hope the supporting accessories from FFR make it to production!

    Sorry I di not take a picture, but trust me, it looks nice!

    -Ben

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    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    No worries, they posted it on their Facebook page.. It looks awesome. Not sure if will fit under the roadster hood though, it takes up a lot of space like you said.
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    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    We're did they put the intercooler?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben1272 View Post
    Anyone know the price for a crate 4-cylinder ecoboost?
    -Ben

    The 2.0L longblock is $7,000. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6007-20t




    The 3.5L longblock is $8,050. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6007-35t



    I'd love to see how they located the intercooler too.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    The 2.3 is a far better engine than the 2.0 not sure why one would go 2.0, the best would be to get the RS tune.
    Tony Nadalin
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    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Currently, Ford does not offer the 2.3L as a crate motor Hopefully it will be an option soon.
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018

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    When they get it sorted it is going to be a nice package for those who want to go the 100% new part route. I look forward to watching the 818 evolve, just as the Coupe before it. The great thing is how Factory Five generally keeps their designs specified so that you can start with an entry level car/price and migrate towards a more expensive/capable machine as your wallet allows.

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Racer View Post
    Currently, Ford does not offer the 2.3L as a crate motor Hopefully it will be an option soon.
    You can buy the complete 2.3 (engine +management system) from other sources, I assume one the RS ships you will be able to buy crate engine
    Tony Nadalin
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    The 2.3 is a far better engine than the 2.0 not sure why one would go 2.0, the best would be to get the RS tune.
    The 2.0 crate motor advantage is low cost and off the shelf availability. With E85 and tuning, 300+ HP is possible. The 2.0 downside is that it is configured as a transverse engine. Issues to address include oil pan, motor mounts, intercooler connection points, etc.

    FFV probably chose the 2.3 for the coupe since it is configured as a longitudinal engine. It also has 350+ HP potential with E85.

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    Should be interesting to see how many 818 guys decide to do a Ford build. I can't really see myself going down this path tell used motor prices are out. Subaru motors just have a lot more support and mods available, also the price comparison is a big difference. Hard to tell how much of an improvement the ford motor will really give. Hasn't been out long enough. Once the Ecoboost motors hit the used market prices like the EJs then I can see many looking at this as a possible better option!
    Last edited by redfogo; 01-19-2016 at 02:05 PM.

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    I don't get the argument, isn't the EJ lighter with a lower center of gravity? Has anyone blown a motor in an 818 yet or are we all just speculating on issues that don't exist in our application? I get the do something different thing, and am all for it based upon my vast amount of ebay time looking into engine costs vs power vs weight, but will stick with the EJ until we break something or until others find consistant issues with it.

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    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRacing View Post
    I don't get the argument, isn't the EJ lighter with a lower center of gravity? Has anyone blown a motor in an 818 yet or are we all just speculating on issues that don't exist in our application? I get the do something different thing, and am all for it based upon my vast amount of ebay time looking into engine costs vs power vs weight, but will stick with the EJ until we break something or until others find consistant issues with it.
    There have been multiple blown motors in the 818 platform due to heatsoak (primarily the 818S with the windshield blocking airflow to the intercooler). The AWIC solution that many have turned to, including us, seems to be cutting back (maybe eliminating?) this problem, but it adds complexity and cost. The EJ also requires a dry sump for serious track cars to help avoid oil starvation.
    I don't know if the Ford engine is a solution to these issues or what issues it will have of its own since I'm not very familiar with it, so I'm curious to see how it pans out for people going this route.
    Tamra
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    I don't think it is an unreasonable solution to the desire that some have for an American powerplant. Granted many other parts in the car may remain Subaru based, but then again, perhaps one of the Mendeola transaxles might find its way onto a Ford engine? Expensive, but sweet. I thinkn the 818 is going to become one of the greats.....it has such an awesome starting point, one can only imagine the MkII!

    -Ben

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    What trans is being used with the Eco boost motor? Some really expensive builds using Eco boost motor and ecu and parts from them. While still using subi running gear

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    Sti 6sp by the looks of the trans

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    The EJ also requires a dry sump for serious track cars to help avoid oil starvation.
    This all depends on the usage. There are a number of us serious road racers that are not going the DS route as there is simply no data to back that a DS system is required, there are plenty of other measures one can take to avoid oil starvation.
    Tony Nadalin
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    This all depends on the usage. There are a number of us serious road racers that are not going the DS route as there is simply no data to back that a DS system is required, there are plenty of other measures one can take to avoid oil starvation.
    Tony in our Conference racing ST class we've had three: Steve Clinton's STI, Michael Contatore's STI, and my Legacy GT. All three spun bearings. Steve and Michael have sold/are selling their STIs and moved on to other non Subaru cars.
    Additionally I spun a bearing in my Spec B EJ257 at ORP. That engine had the full KillerBee setup.
    So there is some data, albeit anecdotal.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    Tony in our Conference racing ST class we've had three: Steve Clinton's STI, Michael Contatore's STI, and my Legacy GT. All three spun bearings. Steve and Michael have sold/are selling their STIs and moved on to other non Subaru cars.
    Additionally I spun a bearing in my Spec B EJ257 at ORP. That engine had the full KillerBee setup.
    So there is some data, albeit anecdotal.
    So first off I understand what Tamra was trying to say but she is not correct about the DS, she should have said that there needs to be some added measure to prevent oil starvation. So in Steve's case he had no prevention for oil starvation, no KB oil pan, no baffles, no valve, etc, only a KB oil pick up and an after market oil cooler. I did not spend enough time with Michael but I know he was not running much for oil starvation as I had this discussion with Steve. I was not aware last time I saw your engine (before the DS) that you were running the KB mechanical oil valve) ? A spun bearing can happen for different reasons, not just oil starvation. there can be clearance issues, heat issues, crappy build issues, etc.

    I 100% agree that for road racing something has to be done to prevent oil starvation, I think we can all agree upon that, it's the measures we can't agree upon
    Tony Nadalin
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    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    In the LGT race wagon I had a Cosworth oil control baffle plate, Moroso oil pickup, and STI oil pan.
    In the Legacy Spec B I had the full Killer Bee baffle, pan, pickup.

    That was enough for me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    Tony in our Conference racing ST class we've had three: Steve Clinton's STI, Michael Contatore's STI, and my Legacy GT. All three spun bearings. Steve and Michael have sold/are selling their STIs and moved on to other non Subaru cars.
    Additionally I spun a bearing in my Spec B EJ257 at ORP. That engine had the full KillerBee setup.
    So there is some data, albeit anecdotal.
    Is it a common bearing that is spun? location not brand.

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    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    So first off I understand what Tamra was trying to say but she is not correct about the DS, she should have said that there needs to be some added measure to prevent oil starvation. So in Steve's case he had no prevention for oil starvation, no KB oil pan, no baffles, no valve, etc, only a KB oil pick up and an after market oil cooler. I did not spend enough time with Michael but I know he was not running much for oil starvation as I had this discussion with Steve. I was not aware last time I saw your engine (before the DS) that you were running the KB mechanical oil valve) ? A spun bearing can happen for different reasons, not just oil starvation. there can be clearance issues, heat issues, crappy build issues, etc.

    I 100% agree that for road racing something has to be done to prevent oil starvation, I think we can all agree upon that, it's the measures we can't agree upon
    You are correct, definitely something needs to be done was my intent. Oil systems are always a heated topic with Subarus But the one thing (I think) we can all agree on is that the Subaru engine has oil problems that need to be taken into consideration when put on the track.
    Tamra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiam1017 View Post
    Is it a common bearing that is spun? location not brand.
    I think it's always #4. At least my two were. When we were tearing my engine down at my sponsor, Subaru of Bend, the tech said "I'm sure it's number 4, it always is..."

    Number 4 is the furthest bearing from the oil pump.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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    main or rod?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    I think it's always #4. At least my two were. When we were tearing my engine down at my sponsor, Subaru of Bend, the tech said "I'm sure it's number 4, it always is..."

    Number 4 is the furthest bearing from the oil pump.

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    Senior Member Carlos C's Avatar
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    Ben:

    Did the Eco-Boost-equipped 818 you looked at have a transaxle mounted? I ask because when I spoke with Dave Smith and Tony Zullo in November, they both stated to me that the biggest clearance issue would be mating the Ford engine with the Subaru tranny. The adapter plate pushes the tranny 4" further back, which would not clear the rear bumper. Since we were standing by Coupe #1 during the discussion, I looked at the car and offered my solution, which both seemed to like. But by looking at the photos posted on this thread, it doesn't even look like that car has a tranny installed, assuming that's the Ford engine, which I'm not 100% sure.

    I know they wanted to get that resolved before the Detroit Muscle TV show taping, so I'm just wondering if the tranny was in; and if so, did you notice something different about the rear bumper, or did they just cut a relief hole for the tail end of the tranny to pass through?

    Carlos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos C View Post
    Ben:

    Did the Eco-Boost-equipped 818 you looked at have a transaxle mounted? I ask because when I spoke with Dave Smith and Tony Zullo in November, they both stated to me that the biggest clearance issue would be mating the Ford engine with the Subaru tranny. The adapter plate pushes the tranny 4" further back, which would not clear the rear bumper. Since we were standing by Coupe #1 during the discussion, I looked at the car and offered my solution, which both seemed to like. But by looking at the photos posted on this thread, it doesn't even look like that car has a tranny installed, assuming that's the Ford engine, which I'm not 100% sure.

    I know they wanted to get that resolved before the Detroit Muscle TV show taping, so I'm just wondering if the tranny was in; and if so, did you notice something different about the rear bumper, or did they just cut a relief hole for the tail end of the tranny to pass through?

    Carlos
    Yes, there was a tranny in and it was a Subaru unit. I think it was a 6 speed unit. It was close to (maybe even touching) the rear bodywork and we commented on how it could be cleared in a better fashion.....but it was in there.

  27. #26
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiam1017 View Post
    main or rod?
    #4 rod bearing on the crankshaft. Here's the one from my Spec B:
    Rod Bearing 4 Failure Spec B.jpg

    And the LGT race car carnage:
    20150529_130654.jpg.....14329418055681.jpg
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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    Senior Member Turboguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben1272 View Post
    I don't think it is an unreasonable solution to the desire that some have for an American powerplant.

    I read that both the 2.0L and 2.3L ecoboost engines are manufactured in Valencia, Spain.

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    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    This all depends on the usage. There are a number of us serious road racers that are not going the DS route as there is simply no data to back that a DS system is required, there are plenty of other measures one can take to avoid oil starvation.
    I will be checking back on this thread to see how your motor works without a DS. That is if you ever finish your car.
    Thanks- Chad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turboguy View Post
    I read that both the 2.0L and 2.3L ecoboost engines are manufactured in Valencia, Spain.
    A year ago, you would have been right. Looks like they just moved the North American portion of production to Cleveland last year.

    https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...w-twin-sc.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turboguy View Post
    I read that both the 2.0L and 2.3L ecoboost engines are manufactured in Valencia, Spain.
    Sorry, I meant "American"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben1272 View Post
    Yes, there was a tranny in and it was a Subaru unit. I think it was a 6 speed unit. It was close to (maybe even touching) the rear bodywork and we commented on how it could be cleared in a better fashion.....but it was in there.
    I saw it too on my visit last week. It is a Subaru 6-speed for sure. The rear of the transmission is rubbing the mesh screen installed in the rear bumper. I don't think the car has been driven much, and I'm sure they're still working on fitment issues. It definitely fits, but it's super tight. It just barely clears the crossbrace - didn't see if they had spaced that back any more.

    If I were going to install one of these engines in a new build right now, I would plan on re-working the fuel tank area of the frame to push the engine forward about and inch and a half. There are some 1.5" square frame members that would have to be re-positioned. FFR may come up with a better solution, though.

    If the V6 is shorter, that could be the ticket. It would look gargantuan in the car.
    Last edited by Zach34; 01-22-2016 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    I saw it too on my visit last week. It is a Subaru 6-speed for sure. The rear of the transmission is rubbing the mesh screen installed in the rear bumper. I don't think the car has been driven much, and I'm sure they're still working on fitment issues. It definitely fits, but it's super tight. It just barely clears the crossbrace - didn't see if they had spaced that back any more.

    If I were going to install one of these engines in a new build right now, I would plan on re-working the fuel tank area of the frame to push the engine forward about and inch and a half. There are some 1.5" square frame members that would have to be re-positioned. FFR may come up with a better solution, though.

    If the V6 is shorter, that could be the ticket. It would look gargantuan in the car.
    When I was discussing possible solutions with Dave Smith and Tony Zullo, I brought up the idea of coming up with an updated rear bumper, which would be slightly more convex at the bottom, giving the tranny more clearance. I showed them how it would look like on the 818C that was there. This new, revised bumper would be used on all variations of the car. They seemed to like the idea, so I guess we'll see how they solve the clearance issue.

    Carlos
    FFR Coupe #0635; Ford 347ci, Tremec TKO500, 8.8 rear end w/ 3.27:1 gears, Cobra/SVO brakes

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    Senior Member SkiRideDrive's Avatar
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    Where are people sourcing 2.3L ecoboost crate motors? The only ones I can find are the 2.0s.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive View Post
    Where are people sourcing 2.3L ecoboost crate motors? The only ones I can find are the 2.0s.
    nobody has got a 2.3 crate motor yet.

    This is what was said on the PowerNation promo.

    This week on PowerNation Factory Five Racing president Dave Smith is back and he fills Courtneyís studio with 3 FFR iconic cars. Dave will detail how Engine Power is going to build his new 818 Coupe powered by Fordís 2.3L EcoBoost 4. The 818 had been a sporting a Subaru engine for the international market, but customers wanted an awesome American engine and Fordís new EcoBoost was a perfect fit. The guys at Factory Five were given the CAD files from Ford so they could size up the engine mounts and place the headers, etc. Now itís up to Engine Power to build it and then drop the hammer on the street. You can catch that build in 2016. Also this week the winner of the WD-40 Specialist Xtreme Off Road Jeep drops in to claim their prize. Itís a full block of tech so make sure you tune in.

    Reading between the lines. It appears the ford has worked closely with ffr to help make this happen. I suspect that FFR might have a special deal with Ford to get the 2.3L . Maybe I'm just an optimist.


    2.3 crate.jpg

    Bob
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    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Don't hold your breath on the 2.3L crate motor. It will be awhile.
    Thanks- Chad
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    And I really want to see the Intercooler Solution!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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    Palatov DP4 - ICSCC & SCCA Sports Racer and HPDE Rental at Oregon Raceway Park

  38. #37
    Senior Member SkiRideDrive's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    Hmmm. I was looking into the 2.0 because they seem to offer the engine and harness for less than 6k now.

    https://fordperformanceracingparts.c...KeyField=25303

    From what I have read the 2.0 has a bolt pattern like a duratec and bolts up to a NC miata 6 speed transmission.

    Is the transmission bolt pattern different for the 2.3 than the 2.0? I think I remember reading that it is.
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  39. #38
    Senior Member Carlos C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Reading between the lines. It appears the ford has worked closely with ffr to help make this happen. I suspect that FFR might have a special deal with Ford to get the 2.3L . Maybe I'm just an optimist.


    2.3 crate.jpg

    Bob
    Dave Smith mentioned to me that Ford Racing approached him about getting the EcoBoost engine in the 818, after they saw how popular the car had become. They have been providing FFR everything needed to make it happen, including the engine, ECU, harness, CAD files, tech support, etc.

    Carlos
    FFR Coupe #0635; Ford 347ci, Tremec TKO500, 8.8 rear end w/ 3.27:1 gears, Cobra/SVO brakes

  40. #39
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    bid on a 2015 mustang with the ecoboost today. 17000 miles. Was a rebuildable running and driving car went for 14500 plus fees..just incase anybody was wondering.

  41. #40
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiam1017 View Post
    bid on a 2015 mustang with the ecoboost today. 17000 miles. Was a rebuildable running and driving car went for 14500 plus fees..just incase anybody was wondering.
    Wait until a Focus RS gets totaled and then grab that as you get a better IC and better engine management.
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

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