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Thread: Rob T's 818R Build Thread

  1. #161
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Ca is losing another talented person. Don't let the mother ship take you. sorry Roswell begs the ribbing.
    I'm sure you'll get a lo of that.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Quick update: Got my car delivered to Roswell, NM yesterday (the company was great and moved it for me). Have an appointment for new high altitude tune (something like 5,500 ft above sea level in Albuquerque). After that....need to figure out when I can get to Sandia Speedway for some track time.....getting closer.

  3. #163
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    Rob sounds like you are settling in, enjoy New Mexico and look forward to a video from Sandra.

  4. #164
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Got the water temperature ground fixed today. The car fired right up after about two months. At the new house, the car is in the garage, off the trailer, so easier to drive around. Took a few laps around the cul de sac. To the tuner next weekend for my high altitude tune. We will see where we net out......

  5. #165
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Quick update. Went to the tuner Saturday. Elevation 5500ft. Paul Leung at Yimisport set me up with Speed Density and MAP sensor when I was in CA. About 320rwhp and 300Tq on 91 octane. Tune was perfect at altitude. Tuner recommended doing nothing. I appreciated his honesty. The tuner in Albuquerque, Cameron Dawes, tunes some wild stuff, like a 900+ Evo that I saw Saturday.

    Yesterday, I did an oil change and a transmission fluid change in preparation for a trip to the new track on Saturday. Sandia Speedway in Albuquerque. The owner is Charlie. He is awesome. On "no event" days, you can let yourself in, sign the waiver, leave $60 and drive all you want. 1.7mi road course. More information next weekend.

    Not quite as good as Mitch's deal (I have to drive 3 hours each way) but pretty awesome.

  6. #166
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    Have fun.

    Move to Bowling Green, nothing is more is than 6 miles away, Nashville is an hour down I65, we offer shop space for rent here at the track and you have 3.2 miles of high speed goodness.
    Last edited by Mitch Wright; 05-21-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  7. #167
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob T View Post
    Sandia Speedway in Albuquerque. The owner is Charlie. He is awesome. On "no event" days, you can let yourself in, sign the waiver, leave $60 and drive all you want. 1.7mi road course. More information next weekend.
    I'm moving to Albuquerque!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  8. #168
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  9. #169
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Thanks for the video, Mitch. That is the track. Won't be a lot of high speed stuff, but fun, nonetheless.

  10. #170
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    Looks like fun!
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  11. #171
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Not alot of run off room, but for $60, who cares! Have fun!
    Thanks- Chad
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  12. #172
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Agreed. Staying on the track is going to be key. A great way to get some inexpensive seat time and practice fundamentals.

  13. #173
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    It looks perfect for test & tunes before you trailer your car to a race. I'd love to have a local track where I could go make a few runs for $60 to make sure everything is working ok and as expected.

    Racing there would be sketchy though.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  14. #174
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Agreed. Not planning on racing. Just open track days, literally. It's a 3 1/2 hour drive, so not as convenient as Buttonwillow was, but I AM NOT complaining. I'll let everyone know how it goes after Saturday. The plan is to get some video, etc. Not sure if my Traqmate will recognize this track, but I can "teach" it.

  15. #175
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    I made it to Sandia Raceway in Albuquerque yesterday for an open track day. I was the only one there. It was about 85F with light winds. The car ran great. The track is very tight, and as Chad mentioned not a lot of run-off room, but it is a lot of fun. I did two sessions. AWIC was 102, Water 190, Oil 200. Oil pressure was 80-100 at speed and 60+ when idling.

    During the second session I was coming into a very tight right hairpin at the end of a short straight. The brake pedal went to the floor. I just missed the tire wall and dropped one wheel off the track. Brakes would work if I pumped them. Took the car off the track and called Mitch Wright. After talking to Mitch for a while, and letting the car sit, we concluded that I must have boiled the brake fluid. It has been several months and a move since I changed the fluid, so my fault. We also noted that this is a very tight track with a lot of braking and no long, fast sections to allow any cooling. First order of business will be changing the fluid more religiously. I will also be looking at some ducting for the front brakes. I am no longer using the oil coolers that Chad installed in the front of the car. This may be a great place to pick up some air for the front rotors. Mitch has some ducts on his brakes. If anyone else does, I'd love to see what you did.

    Video to follow.

  16. #176
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    Good morning Rob, always get to catch up. As we discussed the Sandia track is tight enough that the brakes don't have enough time to cool off. Clarification I don't have brake ducts on my 818 but have installed them on many other Race and track cars. With that said I haven't run my car on a track with as little recovery time as Sandia. Looking forward to your video.
    Last edited by Mitch Wright; 05-27-2018 at 08:09 AM.

  17. #177
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    OK...here is the video. Best couple of laps at Sandia (first time there) including the brake "failure" where I think I should have changed the fluid. Today, installed a new PLX O2 sensor/gauge/tie in to my data logging. Works slick. The other unit died.

    Happy for coaching as always. Tight track. Rob

    https://youtu.be/tyN9IcsZYSI

  18. #178
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    That will give you some pucker factor!
    I think ya'll are right, very tight track with no straights for brake cooling. We have a track like that in the NW, Mission in BC. There's a lot of racers who won't go there anymore because it eats pads and rotors.

    I am a little surprised that brake ducts haven't been a more discussed topic, at least in the R forum. Every race car I have now has them. Heck my STI has powered brake ducts, which are awesome if they are legal in your class. Just last week Josh and I were going over my R and discussing where/how to install front brake ducts. Now I know we'll be installing them.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  19. #179
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    I about crapped myself just watching the video of the brake failure. Great job keeping it under control!

    I'm doing a lot of body work now. With the new nose, there's the option of drawing from the large areas on each side of the small nose piece, or the small side scoops just in front of the front wheels. Any thoughts on which one would work better?

  20. #180
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    I am thinking about the same thing. Currently, there are oil coolers on the small side scoops. If I take those out, there is a possibility. However, you have to then route around the wheel to get the air where you want it. I'm still noodling it. I also don't want to mess up the airflow through the AWIC and radiator. That is working well. I started a separate thread under "brakes".

  21. #181
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    Rob I am sure that got your attention.

    I have checked the brake temps (rotors and calipers) with thermal paint and have not seen temps high enough to cause worry, I don't have ducts. With that said even with the 2 technical sections of the track we have 7-8 places we are over 100mph and 3 places I am close to or over 130 which allows for plenty of recover time. IMO the track Rob is running really doesn't allow for much recovery along with the lower speeds and corners so close together unlike Buttonwillow where he has run the car with out issue.
    Gator at a places like Portland or Pacific I would be surprised if you would see similar brake temps to what I have seen. Calipers, rotors and pads also come into play but I think at Sandia the brakes really never have time to cool off and agree for that track ducts are a must. So far what I have found that is not the case for a typical road course with racing calipers, rotors and pads.

  22. #182
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Mission is the only real bad track in the NW.
    I may play around with some simple ones like C6 Z06 ducts. Not with the backing plates and hoses, just the Z06 ducts aiming air at the disks.

    https://www.corvettemods.com/C6-Corv...AaAiWCEALw_wcB



    Last edited by Sgt.Gator; 05-29-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  23. #183
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    That is a great idea, I look at those C6 ZO6 ducts just about everyday and that hadn't crossed my mind. Actually think we have some laying around the shop and can see how they might fit. After talking to Rob I took a look and it appears their is a lot of room to fit a 4" duct and fit it right at the center of the Hat/Rotor.

  24. #184
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    IMG_0502.JPGIMG_0876.JPG
    brake pads work best in a specific hear range, so to keep the temps of the rotor equal on both the inside and outside face, you need to direct the air into the base of the rotor at the hub. Easy to make a round plate out of aluminum with a 3" tube to hook the ducting hose to and space it out from the hub to barely rub the inside circle of the rotor (this also helps cool the bearings). We chose to pull air from the undertray, using naca ducts (only because the splitter had the kick ups to do so), but often install a naca duct on the air box surrounding the rad, or from the air dam. The first gen nose didn't have a good place to do that either.....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #185
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    Nice looking work. Don't know so I will ask, pulling the air just a few inches off the track surface I would think could be 30* hotter than ambient? The reasoning for my thought is I know it is not uncommon for our track pavement temp to be 130+* on a hot summer day. It would be interesting to see when moving at say 60mph what the difference is if any.
    Last edited by Mitch Wright; 05-30-2018 at 03:44 PM.

  26. #186
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    That's why we like to take it from the front air box as a first choice, plus, it's way easier to do. Taking the air from below is only a splitter difference from taking it from the airdam, air speed is maybe better from on the airdam, but you are giving up downforce on the front by cutting holes and relieving the pressure on the splitter.

  27. #187
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    That looks interesting. Do you have any pictures from the top side showing how you routed the ducting?

  28. #188
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    I think I am going to go stepwise, first. This weekend, I pulled the oil coolers in the front that I am not using. I sealed everything back up (such as it is). The next time to the track, I am going to go with fresh brake fluid in all the brakes. I want to start simple. If I end up needing brake duct cooling, I now have a good visual of what I had. At a call out to Chad, the way he mounted those oil coolers in the front was pretty awesome. I am left with two three inch ports on the lower front corners of each side. They will be awesome if and when I need the brake ducts. Had a fun day wrenching on the car.

  29. #189
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    Aw man, no pictures?

  30. #190
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    Rob, something else to inspect, when brake pads start getting thin they don’t dissipate heat as well as pads with more material.
    I will change out pads when they get to 40% + or - for track use.

  31. #191
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch Wright View Post
    Rob, something else to inspect, when brake pads start getting thin they don’t dissipate heat as well as pads with more material.
    I will change out pads when they get to 40% + or - for track use.
    Good Point. For reference your pads are Raybestos ST46 compound (99% sure) or Raybestos ST43 Compound (1% sure)
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
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  32. #192
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Sounds like doing the pads at this point is prudent. I will look into it. Thanks for all pitching in. I appreciate it.

  33. #193
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Chad to the rescue once again. He saved the Wilwood pads in the replacement pad boxes. Raybestos Racing ST45R303.12 NRS and ST45R303.16 NRS.

  34. #194
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    Rob,
    Was wondering if your using proportioning valves on the front in your brake setup? Thinking the whole smaller calipers pressing twice as hard causing extra heat.

    Something to consider...Walt
    Last edited by walt555; 06-05-2018 at 05:40 PM.

  35. #195
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Hi: Here is some more data. Yes, there is a proportioning valve. I have not messed with it since Chad set it up. He and I talked about that today. I have brake pad wear information....

    Fronts are both at 8mm or 50% of original which, I believe was 16mm based on what's on the box. Backs are both at 8mm or 67% of the original 12mm. So seeing a little more wear as a percentage on the fronts, but does not look insanely out of whack. I am no brake expert.

    I am not at the 40% that Mitch mentioned above, but maybe in this short track duty, ready for some new pads. The $200 will be cheap compared to going 4-wheeling or hitting some walls or tires.

  36. #196
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    I am using Ferodo DS11 pads, good bite, easy on rotors and dissipate heat really well. When ready for replacements if you want to try them contact Daniel Staggs at Essex Parts

  37. #197
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    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  38. #198
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    Gator: I was thinking the same thing, sort of. If I switch to "farm" mode, I think I can do the exact idea with a bit of 2X3 gutter downspout with a 90 on the end. Round the front end and attach to the inlet I have already on the front of the car via a short bit of 3" flexible hose I have two ports each side, but just use one for now. Cut a rectangle in the one panel and rivet the gutter to the wall like you have done with the Z06 duct. My wheels have 3 1/4 inch clearance from the inner fender at lock on each side, at the narrowest point. I wasn't sure if blowing air in the general direction would help, but anything is better than nothing, I assume. We are thinking alike, just you a little more elegantly.....

  39. #199
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    Getting some air back there will help.

  40. #200
    Senior Member Rob T's Avatar
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    OK...let me start by saying that a sheet metal worker I'm not. But for $20 and a few hours, I have a way to use my existing four holes in the front of the car and get some air to my brakes. Similar to what Gator is trying, but a little bit more of a test. Yes the material is 2X3 steal downspout, which happens to fit perfectly behind the wheel when it is at lock. Install is in two weeks.Brake ducts at wheel.JPG

    Brake ducts.JPG

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