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Thread: Art's 818 build

  1. #41

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    What happened next.
    A support tool made of square tube, thick end plates is bolted between the engine mounts, and the outer verticals of the mounts have been buzzed off.


    Additional support applied to the part to bend. All this to make sure the only change happens right on the existing 20 degree bend in that "ear".


    Voila!


    This new section is also not quite as far out to the side at where it meets the frame member, which also helps create clearance for the exhaust manifold (which was cut loose from the cylinder head mount flange and re-angled outward somewhat to also get clearanced from this mount ear - more on the exhaust soon).
    Before changing the mount nor the exhaust header:


    Revised engine frame mount and exhaust header tipped outward to the header flange:


    Last edited by aquillen; 02-06-2018 at 11:05 AM. Reason: force display images
    Art Quillen

  2. #42

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    So far the engine went up maybe 1/10" from the 30 degree mounting change. Next I dropped the transmission mount about 7/8" into the frame, which also tips the engine, oil pan up nicely. Contemplated the cool pour-your-own tranny mount (John's EZ36R H6 818R Build - Hobby Racer), but I had a brand new mount in hand and for me the saw and welder was already in stock...







    The bottom of the case now about 1/2" from frame - may be a problem. This one may have to be worked on when I go-cart:


    Scalloped out the frame in front of that cam casing bulge. Probably overkill but it won't touch I'm sure...


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    Last edited by aquillen; 02-06-2018 at 11:10 AM. Reason: force image display
    Art Quillen

  3. #43

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    Oil canning floor pan

    As supplied, my floor pan was popping like a "frog clicker toy" on both sides with almost no pressure. After a lot of YouTube movies and WEB searches I was armed with propane torch and cold wet rag. After most of the propane was gone, I had chased, solved and created more "warbles" and "bubbles" than I should admit. Definitely a skill that one must either be born with or bestowed with somehow, which was not happening in my case. Maybe I needed acetylene - ("Mapp pro" didn't work any better for me) - more power/heat whatever is always one solution to a lot of problems.

    Anyway my friend over at the steel fab shop suggested just running a wire feed strip near the bobble - although he did include a disclaimer that it doesn't always work either.

    In my case what you see here took about 15 minutes and worked like a charm. I could see it did pull some of the "warbles" out, some are still there, but regardless both sides are solid and will not pop even standing on them anywhere. Maybe a combo of the beads stiffening as well as pulling-shrinking the plates, either way I'm happy.



    While I'm at it - did you know "Mapp Pro" is not "Mapp" gas. But then the name is different, and in a tribute to advertising and making claims - "pro" is a con job in my view. You can research this but it turns out quite a few years back the patent holder on Mapp gas found the raw material makes them more money put in other products, so they stopped making the bottled Mapp gas for consumer use. I have a half bottle left from probably 1991 I think and it is indeed significantly hotter burning. Mapp Pro was trotted out to cash in on the Mapp fame, but it is essentially juiced up propane and while a bit better, is not what we had back in the "good ol' days".
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    Last edited by aquillen; 02-06-2018 at 11:11 AM. Reason: force image display
    Art Quillen

  4. #44
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquillen View Post
    As supplied, my floor pan was popping like a "frog clicker toy" on both sides with almost no pressure...

    Anyway my friend over at the steel fab shop suggested just running a wire feed strip near the bobble - although he did include a disclaimer that it doesn't always work either.

    In my case what you see here took about 15 minutes and worked like a charm. I could see it did pull some of the "warbles" out, some are still there, but regardless both sides are solid and will not pop even standing on them anywhere. Maybe a combo of the beads stiffening as well as pulling-shrinking the plates, either way I'm happy.

    Oil_Can_fix_dtqv43.jpg
    I have the exact same problem. But I did not address it while the frame was bare. Now I am either stuck with it or I need to make a big mess to fix it.

    Great stuff by the way. I love that there is another H6 build in process. It is very interesting to see how others attack the various issue involved with transplanting the H6 into the 818.
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Racer View Post
    I have the exact same problem. But I did not address it while the frame was bare. Now I am either stuck with it or I need to make a big mess to fix it.

    Great stuff by the way. I love that there is another H6 build in process. It is very interesting to see how others attack the various issue involved with transplanting the H6 into the 818.
    I contemplated bonding a 1/10" or 1/8" aluminum plate over each floor pan, but mine wasn't coated yet so I had more options. Weight addition wouldn't be a lot but -ought- to fix the problem.
    Art Quillen

  6. #46

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    EZ30D - factory 3 part cat exhaust

    Wouldn't be any fun if you could just buy this ready to bolt on. If you read earlier, I plan to use the stock ECM and I don't want codes. Would be nice to skip the third catalytic convertor but everything I've dug up on the WEB fails to say it can be done and NOT make the ECM crab. Have not yet found Romraider, etc., that will let me tweak the 02-03 EZ30D computer either.

    The donor cat convertors - 2003 Legacy Outback 3.0. The 3rd cat has an O2 bung on the front bottom, just enough room to screw in the sensor with the exhaust in place.

    So the cat's are staying, but where to put them, and maybe still have a tiny bit of trunk space to boot... here is my take on it.

    This can all be slipped on and off with the motor in the chassis, that's the reason for splitting it apart. The tips will be finished later when the body is in place, but I've rough checked it of course. I tried some other layouts, but this used the least pipe, bends. Squeezing the 3rd cat down on one side can work, but the other side has a longer flow up to that third cat - didn't seem like the thing to do.

    For example:



    Couple hangars from the transmission:



    Piled it all on:

    Art Quillen

  7. #47

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    Just a few more pix - hangars:











    Another view:

    Last edited by aquillen; 03-07-2018 at 02:52 PM.
    Art Quillen

  8. #48

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    Hot pipe vs starter motor... In general there has been a lot of comments about heat problems in the engine bay. Even an N/A setup is likely to get pretty warm. I went out and got the Coupe add on last fall and no clue yet about heat with that. So I'm going after ways to manage it to some extent - using guesswork I guess.

    Sneaking past the starter on the left, I worked out the best I could for clearance given there is frame there too. I have obtained an embossed ("dimpled") stainess steel in 0.2mm thick. Compare to extremely heavy aluminum foil. Only way I could find it was in factory quantity but I hope to use it in firewall and maybe other spots. Will pack in 2300F ceramic blanket wool between the steel and the plumbing.

    Planning to make cement molds from the plumbing and then press the steel sheet in the molds to make shields not unlike the Subaru shields that were on the factory exhaust (those sure won't fit this octopus). Will post pix if it is a success, or hide in shame if it flops...

    Oh - the carbon fiber intake is slowly creeping along. For that I next - need to rough cast the aluminum flanges and machine them down to fit the carbon fiber tubes that fit between the intake breadbox and the cylinder head ports. Got my CNC conversion done on Harbor Freight mill and learning to run that now, so the flanges will happen fairly soon.

    I would be remiss in not sending out special THANK YOU to James Bowman - he is building an 818 over in Ohio and was so kind to bring me some scrap SS pipe for my little TIG project above...
    Art Quillen

  9. #49
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    "Will post pix if it is a success, or hide in shame if it flops..."

    LOL!!! So true, I've thought this so many times I can't even count.

    I originally thought I could route the exhaust between the engine and frame, but it's such a tight fit that it doesn't look good for me. I'd prefer that route, it's still up in the air though so that dicision is still yet to be finalized. I do like the way you used plumbing parts to mock up the exhaust, so a trip to Home Depot is needed.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Wow Art that is some great work. That must have taken a lot of planning and mock-up time to get all that pipe and those converters to fit!
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018

  11. #51

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    Couldn't afford it if I wasn't doing it myself. And thanks!
    Art Quillen

  12. #52

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    Art, your creativity and skills are fun to see, even if I can't follow you in all your amazing fabrications.

    Like Flynntuna, I have followed you with this plan several times:
    "Will post pix if it is a success, or hide in shame if it flops..."
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  13. #53
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    This is some really gerat job you are doing there, Art!
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Bulid time, including registration 3283.5h in 148 work week time and 3.5 years elapsed

  14. #54

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    Just trying to keep up with you guys. Tons of great ideas flowing in this forum.
    Art Quillen

  15. #55

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    Tubing end bead tool - v.2

    The earlier version I posted works great for tough stuff like the SS tubing. For aluminum, and especially the smaller diameter stuff on my coolant piping, I decided to tackle designing a "hand" tool that could bead pipe nicer, and faster, here at home. This one will do aluminum tubing down to 1/2" ID as well as the 1-1/2" stuff in the 818 kit.

    For those who can fab this kind of stuff for themselves, this one works nice. You clamp it in a vise with the tube caught in the jaws, rotate the tube and squeeze the vise every so often. I clamp just the "far" end where the hinge bolt is - in the vise - then put a small c-clamp closer to the tubing end and use it to do the fine tune squeezing.

    You must anneal tubing first or it will be too hard to roll with this. How to anneal tubing follows this.

    It makes beads that really do look factory, in about a minute or two. You do need to chase down some needle bearings and be able to form and weld some bits of steel tube and angle iron. Doesn't have to look just like mine - but you get the idea.





    Art Quillen

  16. #56

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    Bending aluminum tubing

    Plenty to learn about bending tubing. Old school pack with sand, new = fancy machines, etc. But if you don't expect the moon, this will do the job.

    I'll be posting my EZ30 plumbing soon but here is how I bent my tubing this week. Being able to bend pipe for yourself opens new vistas. I did this with 1/2" and 1" ID 6061-T6 from McMaster-Carr supply. I see no reason this can't be done on the 1-1/2" stuff although it will take a fair amount of force. I used the cheapo press in my shop but this could be done in a vise for that matter.

    Figure about 3-1/2 times the pipe diameter for your bend radius - measured to the center of the pipe. Bending tighter than that will invite kinking.

    Practice on some scrap first - it doesn't take much to get the hang of it. Some of my bends look pro, others 85%, but in all cases the water will get through just fine.

    From my experience, for a 90 degree bend, plan to do it in about 3 "bites" and only anneal enough for 1/3 - one "bite" at a time. That way you control the bend better and reduce chance of kinking. Aluminum (6061) undergoes "work hardening" so after bending, a change requires re-annealing, and you can un-bend if you are careful. Also as it ages it will harden naturally, so anneal again in the future to work the same area.

    Sanford marker "burns off" at about 650 degree F, according to some WEB posters. The old school method is smoke the pipe with yellow acetylene flame, which burns off at about 650F too. Or buy and use temp crayons you can get at some welding supplies for accurate temperature for annealing (target is 650F).

    Mark area to anneal:



    About 15 seconds in propane torch and the marker disappears (sometimes completely, not always). I also mark beyond the heat zone a bit so I can tell where to bend later, but didn't this time.



    Immediately quench with cold water.



    Make a wood (or whatever) bending former - the inner curve fits to the pipe. The width is enough that later, in a press, the top and bottom plates will clamp the wood but just barely allow the pipe to move between the plates. Note the curve radius - to center of pipe - is about 3-1/2 X the pipe diameter. You'll need something at the "far" end of the pipe to hold it. I've got a bolt with some unistrut nuts back behind that wood former, caught in one of the press backing plates.



    Bending the tubing. This 1" tubing is taking probably 70# of force at 12 to 16" from the bend. The press is just holding everything in place, so a vise could work too, just a bit harder to hold things in place during the setup of the parts. I'm doing a second bend here where the wood hits the pipe. Fancy round plates are something I just happened to get at my local steel shop's scrap pile, you could even use hardwood boards, or whatever plates came with your press...



    The two bends are:



    These pipes and my other bits are on the chassis today. I'm pulling them off and doing a photo-shoot any day now to post what the whole setup turned into for my EZ30 install. These two go up the right side, from the rear wheel right up to bottom of the radiator up in front. If you haven't followed the 6cyl EZ motors, the have two hot coolant outlets at the top front of the manifold area. Some guys combine these right away into a single and so can use the supplied FFR tubing, but I elected to keep them separate and use the two inlet donor radiator as well. These two pipes snake through the same route as FFR's 1-1/2" but are obviously longer.

    Art Quillen

  17. #57
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Not only you're an 818 builder but you're a tool builder! That's a different set of skills. And an electronic circuit builder! Is there anything you don't build?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Bulid time, including registration 3283.5h in 148 work week time and 3.5 years elapsed

  18. #58

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    If I had to cook, I'd live on the 3 p's - pizza, pop-tarts, popcorn, with pop-chasers.

    For you guitar guys, check this - I do really small electronics too:

    https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/in...&topic=23087.0
    Last edited by aquillen; 03-26-2018 at 03:03 PM.
    Art Quillen

  19. #59

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    Custom Combination Meter

    I was going to put a Legacy dash panel in until I found out it was wider/bigger than the Impreza cutout that comes with the FFR kit. I decided to make my own version using the plastic frame from an Impreza.

    - Needed the H6 3.0 electronics for the tach, or else get/make a pulse convertor
    - Liked having the clock that was in the Legacy dash
    - Wanted some extra gauges but keep them in the display "window", not out somewhere else
    - Like making my own stuff and having it unique

    2 months give or take. First month spent playing with graphics ideas, layouts, making test patterns, changing ideas. Second month making the things shown here.

    Pictures don't come close to justice on this.

    I used a China 40W laser to cut the plastic and graphics parts. Have no clue how to get the accuracy and make these without one.

    The text displays, such as "High Beam", "Low Fuel" and so on, are made from small plexiglass squares (1/8" thick), with transparent graphic labels on one end, surface mount LED on the other end. Wrapped with chrome mylar hobby film (model airplane stuff) to keep the light reflected inside. That is wrapped with copper foil to make a big conductor/connector spot and resistors to each LED are connected to the foil as well.





    The dial face plates are a sandwich of 3 layers:
    back layer is clear acrylic that has the LED's mounted in tiny cutuouts (laser cut of course) so the light "shines into" the plastic from and edge. It bounces around and is kept inside the acrylic plate two ways. The laser cuts by melting the plastic so the edges end up shiny and smooth, making a very good reflector. Next I wrap each disc with chrome mylar film to reflect even more light back into the disc.

    Since light is bouncing all over in that acrylic, if it hits white paint on the back it will be diffused and reflected off the white paint and angles such that light will exit "above" the white paint. So white paint can be applied in the spots where I want light to be sent out toward the front of the display backlight disc. By lighting the LED you can put paint at a location and see the lighting effect it produces from the front, and so decide how much and where to put more paint to get even backlighting. The further from an LED, the more paint is needed. You don't want paint everywhere because it uses up the available light, some of which would be wasted in areas that don't need any light.

    Next a matching disc is mated to the clear acrylic, same size, same cutouts, etc. (except no more LED's). This disc is translucent, cut from 1/8" thick plastic from a
    ceiling florescent light fixture. This creates the creamy white backing of tick marks, words and numbers that appear on the front of the display. Especially it diffuses the light so it is more even.

    The blue vs red vs white LED lighted areas are segregated from each other by laser cutting sections of the two discs and fitting chrome mylar film in between to prevent light spilling or sharing between different parts of the discs. Getting the mylar in there was one of the more difficult steps. I am slowly developing benign tremors (hand shake) and all this tiny detailed stuff is no so easy anymore.

    The face plate itself is 3M carbon fiber look vinyl film, again laser cut from my bitmap graphics images and simply stuck to the fronts of the light pipe assemblies. A coat of clear acrylic paint goes over all of it to help keep the incredibly tiny bits of vinyl from falling off later on (stuff like the little triangle that makes the inside of the letter "A" in the word "TRANS", for example.
    Art Quillen

  20. #60

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    With all the dial faces and text displays built, they go onto the aluminum face plate, which is cut from 0.10" aluminum plate. I could CNC the round stuff and bigger openings, but the small squares I hand drilled and filed to size (ugh).



    A lot of bits and pieces need to be securely attached so I tig'd tabs for 4-40 screws all over the back of the face plate. In the thinner locations the tig welding caused bowing and bending. At first I figured the whole idea was a bust, but ended up putting in a bunch of hammering, tapping, teasing and otherwise bending it all back down flat. Had you seen the mess before I started fixing it, you would have said... can't be done. At least that was my initial impression.



    The front was powder coated with chrome and then translucent blue, for a cool candy-blue final look.



    The backlight dials get mounted and wiring begins:





    Art Quillen

  21. #61

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    The meter movements are exposed and dust would make them fail. So a fiberglass dust shield was made, along with small tabs to have it screwed down onto the back of the face plate. Rubber foam strips between the shield and the face plate improve the seal. Where the ribbon connectors fit, still needs some seal.



    By Murphy's law, of course the dial pointers on the MPH and TACH manage to contact the clear front face plate, so it had to be shimmed out a bit with more foam and some 4-40 screws.

    The guages were all generally shrunk in diameter a bit (MPH and TACH a lot), in order to make room in the nest for all of them. Not enough room in there for all those dials in their original diameters. That was one reason all this happened - it wouldn't fit in the Impreza's real-estate with three more (JDM low cost) guages.







    Calibration? While the original Legacy panel was still virgin, I setup test signal inputs and determined what needed to be sent to each guage to set a specific dial pointer's position. Since all the pointers had to be pulled off the guages to build this, that was essential to getting things back to known states at the end. The last step prior to putting the face shield on was to wire up the signals and then press the dials onto their shafts at the correct locations.

    Unseen is tiny black paper rings bonded just under the centers of each dial to prevent the white light for each dial's backlighting from spilling around and spoiling the panel's nice appearance.

    Resuming working on my carbon fiber intake manifold now.
    Art Quillen

  22. #62
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    Wow!! Very impressive!!!

  23. #63
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    All I can say is "WOW". All the hours to do that -not many people have the patience. Congrats.

  24. #64
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Yes WOW, it's a big improvement over the WRX gauge pack

  25. #65
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Basically you built your own cluster?? THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!!!! And that blue is awesome. I like blue... as you probably know lolll

    But... 120mph?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Bulid time, including registration 3283.5h in 148 work week time and 3.5 years elapsed

  26. #66

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    I'm often impressed by what guys on this forum can do but this is WAY beyond impressive . . . awesome work!
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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