Very Cool Parts

Visit our community sponsor

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: NASA ST4 for old configuration cars?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like

    NASA ST4 for old configuration cars?

    I was looking at the proposed ratios and possible rules for NASA’s upcoming ST4 class and it seems like a really good place for those of us with Challenge cars in the original configuration. The 12.0/1 with a possible +.1/.2 for smaller tires and no aero seems like very little would need to be done.

    I did do the upgrade myself, but I have been seriously thinking about going back because of how reliable the car was before the changes. How many of you who have retired your cars to HPDEs or similar would consider coming back?
    2012 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    2011 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    Race page - http://www.mh-motorsports.com/race.shtml
    Team Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/pages/MH-Mot...s/264814350042

  2. #2
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    22
    I read your post then read thru the rules of ST4. Unless I missed something the Challenge car can not run in ST4 because its not a production chassis. ST3 (at 10 to 1) does seem a fit thou with larger MAF, Throttle body and Injectors seems like 260 HP should be doable with out stressing a T-5. I was looking at building a Challenge car in 2015 but the class seemed to disappear.
    Daily Driver 2011 Ford Mustang Convertible
    Donor 1997 Mustang Coupe
    Someday a Type65 Street Coupe

  3. #3
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Kirkland, WA
    Posts
    2,255
    Post Thanks / Like
    We have a nice deal with SOVREN and SCCA Vintage in the NW, would be good to also get a deal with SVRA, running VP3 or Big Bore class
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  4. #4
    Senior Member EBarnes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Peachtree City, GA
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like
    I sent you a message Marty - my car was updated (suspension and brakes), but with a stock 302. I would like to make this year the year I get the comp license, but wondering what to do with the car...

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by R Thomas View Post
    I read your post then read thru the rules of ST4. Unless I missed something the Challenge car can not run in ST4 because its not a production chassis. ST3 (at 10 to 1) does seem a fit thou with larger MAF, Throttle body and Injectors seems like 260 HP should be doable with out stressing a T-5. I was looking at building a Challenge car in 2015 but the class seemed to disappear.
    Section 7.5 The FFC cars are allowed in.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.

  7. #7
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Nashua, NH
    Posts
    878
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wesmc View Post
    I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.
    The 2012+ FFR rules allows for 13" front rotor/PBR caliper from 1998 mustang cobra, I would upgrade to those brakes. They are great brakes, leave the rear brakes alone. Factory Five sells an upgrade kit FFR#15415 that upgrades the spindles, SAI kit, and front swaybar changing the front end geometry to add a lot more grip in the front. You should definitely do that before you do anything else. I think that is the best bang for the buck with stock power levels.

    Factory Five Suspension Kit FFR#15415
    spindles
    bearing hub assemblys
    SAI upper control arm weld-in bracket
    swaybar with mounting hardware

    Brakes
    1998 FORD MUSTANG COBRA 4.6L 281cid V8 FI (V) DOHC
    Part Number Part Type
    CENTRIC 12061045(120.61045) Right Rotor
    CENTRIC 12061044(120.61044) Left Rotor
    RAYBESTOS FRC10603 Right Caliper with Bracket
    RAYBESTOS FRC10604 Left Caliper with Bracket
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  8. #8

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    GoDadGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    6,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post

    Brakes
    1998 FORD MUSTANG COBRA 4.6L 281cid V8 FI (V) DOHC
    Part Number Part Type
    CENTRIC 12061045(120.61045) Right Rotor
    CENTRIC 12061044(120.61044) Left Rotor
    RAYBESTOS FRC10603 Right Caliper with Bracket
    RAYBESTOS FRC10604 Left Caliper with Bracket
    John,

    Can I assume that these brakes will fit the MK-4?
    I have the FFR spindles and I went with the complete kit, but standard front brakes.
    I just want to know in case I find that the stock front brakes end up being a bit lacking.

    Steve
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 01-24-2017 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Nashua, NH
    Posts
    878
    Post Thanks / Like
    Steve, yes to both fit on MK-4 and they will bolt right up to FFR spindles.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Since there are no Challenge cars running near me I'm heading to ST 3 or 4 with this old girl. Got brakes ordered, question I have for guys who have more time in these cars is what is the next priority. I have a 347 on the stand but would blow right out of ST4, prolly all the way to ST2 with that motor so I'd rather think about horsepower last.

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ok, I will get on the front suspension upgrade this week. Sounds like that is next on the list. I was thinking about the Cobra brakes last year but since I have never encountered a second Challenge car I decided to not worry about that rules package at all. I assume that 15415 kit will work with the Willwoods Levy Racing is sending but I will verify. Thank You!

  12. #12

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    GoDadGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    6,555
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post
    Steve, yes to both fit on MK-4 and they will bolt right up to FFR spindles.

    Thanks John!

  13. #13
    Senior Member EBarnes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Peachtree City, GA
    Posts
    117
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wesmc View Post
    I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.
    Where are you located?

  14. #14
    Junior Member G_Lemke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    NEW RULE - New place for OLD spec challenge cars

    So for the last few years the FFR was legal for ST3, but not ST4. New for 2018 it is allowed in ST4, but with a painful adjustment.

    From the 2018 rules "Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6 (ST4 approved)"

    This means that an FFR would need to run a raw weight to hp of 12.5 (-0.6 as above, + 0.3 for tires 250-275, and -0.2 for weight between 2200 and 2600)
    or a 2550 lbs car could run 204 hp.

    Since all of the west coast FFRs seem to have done a disappearing act, this adds another option to get them back on track.

    (see many other threads on the new spec cars being ST2, or detuned to ST3, seems to still be -0.0 in ST3 or higher)

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by G_Lemke View Post
    NEW RULE - New place for OLD spec challenge cars

    So for the last few years the FFR was legal for ST3, but not ST4. New for 2018 it is allowed in ST4, but with a painful adjustment.

    From the 2018 rules "Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6 (ST4 approved)"

    This means that an FFR would need to run a raw weight to hp of 12.5 (-0.6 as above, + 0.3 for tires 250-275, and -0.2 for weight between 2200 and 2600)
    or a 2550 lbs car could run 204 hp.

    Since all of the west coast FFRs seem to have done a disappearing act, this adds another option to get them back on track.

    (see many other threads on the new spec cars being ST2, or detuned to ST3, seems to still be -0.0 in ST3 or higher)
    Despite the handicap this is great news. These cars are too good to have no where to go.

    Thanks for the update
    2012 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    2011 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    Race page - http://www.mh-motorsports.com/race.shtml
    Team Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/pages/MH-Mot...s/264814350042

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    2019 rules for those who want to run in ST3/ST4:

    https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...--10-10-18.pdf

    No Modification Factor Models:
    Factory Five Roadster (no aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.0


    With Modification Factor Models:
    Factory Five Roadster (if any Aero mods, wing, or splitter) = -0.2
    Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6
    (ST4 approved)
    Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (Gen 1&2) = -0.2 (no additional Aero mods)
    Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (Gen 3) = -0.3 (no additional Aero mods)
    2012 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    2011 NASA-SE FFR Champion
    Race page - http://www.mh-motorsports.com/race.shtml
    Team Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/pages/MH-Mot...s/264814350042

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Martin's Dent and Collision Shop

Visit our community sponsor