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Thread: Stix's Gen 3 Coupe Build - Striped Steel

  1. #81
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Kicking off the weekend with a bit of tire, wheel, and widebody eye candy
    I'm still kind of blown away by the size and these are only 295/40R18.


    No spacers here! Just 2015 Mustang GT axles and future custom A-arms


    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  2. #82
    Senior Member TheBabyBadger's Avatar
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    GONNA BE A MONSTER!!! Love it! I'm running the same size wheels and tires... Now I'm SUPER excited for them to show up! Keep at it!
    Gen3 Coupe: BOSS 302/Coyote & T56 Build Thread - https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...733#post312733

    Arrival: 6/21/18 1st Go Kart: TBA Registered: TBA Painted: TBA Complete:TBA

  3. #83
    Senior Member SkiRideDrive's Avatar
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    This is amazing. I just found this thread and I feel like I am waiting for the next season to pop up on Netflix. Keep at it!
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/idothingsquickly/videos

  4. #84
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive View Post
    This is amazing. I just found this thread and I feel like I am waiting for the next season to pop up on Netflix. Keep at it!
    And like Netflix, I'll keep you waiting for months for the next update :P Just kidding, I hope to be able to spend more time getting things underway again in the near future.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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  6. #85
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Back with an update. Work and everything else have been busy so I'm happy to report there is still progress being made on the car. Right now it just happens to be off of the car.

    I'm getting close to wrapping up the transmission to transfer case adapter modifications needed. To sum it up, I'm using a different transfer case (Borg Warner 4412) than what the original adapter was designed for (BW4404) and in a different position which is further complicated by the fact that the 4412 has a different input shaft length and depth.

    First step was to jump in with both feet and cut the adapter in half. Second was to modify it, and third will be to get it back in one piece.

    I did some dumpster diving to get some scrap pieces of thick steel plate. The plates had 1/2" holes in it all over but I was able to work around that and create a fixture to hold the input and output flanges concentric to each other. Essentially making two tight tolerance round plates welded to a tube to hold the top and bottom relative to each other. You can see the two halfs and the tool fixture in this picture:


    On the back side of the output flange I used the lathe to cut a groove for the transfer case alignment ring but only 0.1" deep so not to weaken the flange too much. The groove isn't square and the bottom is more of a \__/ shape so stress concentrations shouldn't be too high (I hope). This way I can also use the BW4404 as a fall-back option since both can be held concentric to the transmission output shaft. You can also see the places I used a dry-erase marker as an indicator to wear off where the groove hit before seating the transfer case and needed machined more. Low cost tech for the win!


    Here's the fixture in the output flange for reference:


    Here's the input flange half added with the fixture aligning everything and at the right height. I also ground off the paint in a few areas for an electrical ground path while welding depending on where it's clamped:


    Finally a side view with the shortened parts. The butt joint on the center tube should minimize flange distortion and I can still skim the input flange face to make sure everything is parallel. I added a chamfer to each part on the suggestion of a coworker to help with welding penetration since this will be reacting the output torque:


    Next is to weld it up and then test fit the adapter. After that is to try to get the whole mockup (engine block to transfer case) in the car to check that fit!
    Last edited by q4stix; 12-18-2018 at 02:49 AM.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  7. #86
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Really, really enjoy your posts and engineering details. Way, way cool!

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

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  9. #87
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgundermann View Post
    Really, really enjoy your posts and engineering details. Way, way cool!

    Chris
    Thanks! Glad to hear that because sometimes I feel like I go overboard describing things not related to a 'normal' build. Lots more to go to make this all work
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  10. #88
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    We're shortened, welded, and test fit!

    Seems like we got good penetration on the weld area and pretty good color distribution showing the heated regions. We skipped around similar to tightening lug nuts to minimize any distortion too.


    Here's it back together at the proper length and ready to test fit next. This should happen sometime over the Christmas to New Year's break and then I can figure out how much to raise the rear differential and see how to run the forward driveshaft


    I'm also still working on my mill cleaning and restoration. Amazing how much grease, oil, etc. keeps coming out of the castings but I'm getting close to wrapped up smelling Zep Purple in the garage and house for a while
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  11. #89
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    Geez! That is a quite a piece there... I think you have quite a vision...a tip of the hat to you for setting off in a direction and making it work! I am excited to see the front D/S go in and the front end assy....this should be a pretty nice machine and a one of a kind when complete... keep at it please!!! 4WD Gen 3 coupe.... that's cool.
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

    US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)

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  13. #90
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves View Post
    Geez! That is a quite a piece there... I think you have quite a vision...a tip of the hat to you for setting off in a direction and making it work! I am excited to see the front D/S go in and the front end assy....this should be a pretty nice machine and a one of a kind when complete... keep at it please!!! 4WD Gen 3 coupe.... that's cool.
    Thanks! Means a lot coming from you after your great builds!

    Maybe I'll have this all figured out for when the Gen 3 based supercar is released and then I can twin turbo the setup in that car like you did
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  14. #91
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Mockup Install Update!

    A friend of mine was able to come over and help me get the bare engine block, transmission, and adapter into the chassis so I could start getting a better idea of the actual space and the number of additional modifications required to make this crazy idea actually work.


    While this looks straightforward, the output shaft sticking out so far meant we had to pull things back forward to slide the transfer case on. You might be able to see that I cut to additional tubes on the tunnel near where the shifter location is because of interference (mid and rear shift are not options on the AWD transmission because of the rear adapter)


    Then, like all good things I try, there were more interferences. I handed my friend the recip saw and said go at it but he was a bit hesitant. After I showed him I already chopped that particular tube and it just had to be even shorter he had a go. This was the X member on the floor that also had the driver's seat belt tab on the tunnel side. That'll be sure to be added back.


    More cutting and grinding occurred on the transfer case and frame:


    Tada! I'm in a seat and in the car next to the giant drivetrain!


    One pic from the front:


    One from the side:


    It's not ideal yet, but I'll work on that some.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  15. #92
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Also, I got my first real TIG welding lesson. I've done stick, used a torch to weld, braze, and cut, and done MIG but not really TIG. I'm keeping it too cold and using too little filler, but apparently my general technique is pretty good for a self described beginner:

    This will all come in handy when I fix the frame, make new motor, transmission, and differential mounts, and then eventually the new suspension arms and exhaust headers.

    Fun times!
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  16. #93
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Freaking cool! Incredible work...

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

  17. #94
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    Well cool! Just some bracing to add back in there... looks like the shifter is a little father forward than stock but manageable for sure. More filler on the welds for sure.
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

    US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)

  18. #95
    Senior Member SkiRideDrive's Avatar
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    Itching for more updates!
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/idothingsquickly/videos

  19. #96
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Hey SkiRideDrive! I've been spending a lot of time working and not at much time doing actual physical work on the car. I'm still trying to design things here and there and hope to be back to things soon. On the bright side, I've learned enough Mastercam and G code to run our CNC machine here at work (a 30x16" travel, 3 axis) to make a few things for work that are fully contoured, use 8 different mill bits, and 12-15 hours of machine time each (yes, it's not a high speed machine, but still works haha).

    I'd like to be putting in more hours before too long.

    I'm trying to search out a 3d scanner so I can better design and fit the front and rear suspensions, so if anyone has a 3d scanner they're willing to loan out, I'm all ears!
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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  21. #97
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Small update:
    I've been trying to figure out how to best raise the differential to match the rest of the raised driveline (due to the transfer case) and came up with a solid coupler for mockup purposes. They had a scrap piece of 2" thick, 5x5" steel used elsewhere that was getting thrown out so I snagged it.

    I made a quick sketch showing the dimensions of the flanges I have (see earlier when I replaced the differential pinion flange from the 2015+ Mustang GT CV style flange to the F150 style flat flange meant for a U-joint bolting to it.


    A mockup in 3d helped me figure out how I'd do everything so I could reference it on the lathe and fit the bolts in (barely). FYI, the pinion flanges are threaded so I wanted to make use of them instead of drilling them out and threading the coupler or having the treads misaligned and causing a gap between the flanges and coupler


    Complete after a long time of running the lathe at some pretty slow speeds to cut all the steel


    Not sure when I'll get it in, but that's my next step.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  22. #98
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Minor update, I got the differential out of the Factory Five as-designed mounts and raised it about 3" with a jack to get the coupler I made installed.

    You can see my driveline is pretty much one giant inline group of stuff.


    Here's a closer view of the coupler from above installed and how much the diff was raised.


    Finally, a back view showing the new position I need to make mounts for:
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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  24. #99
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Can the CV joints on the axels accommodated the difference in height?
    Gen 3 65 Coupe #138 - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - Engine: Roush 427SRE - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  25. #100
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    Can the CV joints on the axels accommodated the difference in height?
    Very good question. The short answer is "maybe", but I think so.
    Take a look at the pictures in this post (#55): https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post310201
    Between the nominal position looking to be slightly up, running the longer axles of the Mustang GT combined with a slightly lower ride height should make the effective difference only 2" instead of a 3" actual differential height change. Since I'm also going to run stock length GT axles, I'm pretty sure I can source some that have high angle CVs in them.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  26. #101
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Here's first cut at the axle angle with a 4.5" or so ride height. I'll know better once I get the whole powertrain height and position finalized, but we're looking good for now:


    Next up is the height of the engine end at the mounts and then seeing how to snake the front driveshaft in. If that shows good I'll weld in a new frame beam for the new differential height and redo the engine mounts before starting to cut up the front suspension area to make room for the front diff.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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  28. #102
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Looks great! Very exciting. I love watching this build unfold!
    Gen 3 65 Coupe #138 - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 - Engine: Roush 427SRE - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  29. #103
    Trick Tool Maker, Super Moderator Hankl's Avatar
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    Totally Crazy, but in a good way, here's your sign!!

    Raise your right hand and say after me,

    "I (State your name), do swear/affirm, that upon acceptance of this "Revered Coupe Jacket", will willingly subject myself to all manner of frustration and abrasion that my FFR Type 65 will provide. I further pledge that any and all fellow Coupe builders will have free reign in using the cash available in my wallet as they see fit to improve my build plan. I will not look down upon our fellow Roadster builders, but rather take pity on those not talented enough to build a race car with a roof, So Help Me God!"



    It is my pleasure to present you with the "Revered Coupe Jacket" # 2, Here's your sign!!




    Hank
    Last edited by Hankl; 04-22-2019 at 09:38 PM.
    “If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
    Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  30. #104
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Since you gave me one back in 2017 does this mean you're telling me I need two straitjackets just to contain my crazy ideas? LOL
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  31. #105
    Trick Tool Maker, Super Moderator Hankl's Avatar
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    Yes!!!!
    “If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
    Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  32. #106
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Thought experiment time:
    I've been reading about multiple people trying to quiet down the exhaust volume, Slimline 30" being sold out (my original option), etc and I wanted to get an idea of what I could do with yet another non-standard idea. Since I had time at my computer after getting a CNC job started at work, I played around with using a muffler and tucking it in the Coupe recess and begin seeing how it would work.
    Obviously this isn't a finished product. I haven't verified the dimensions on the car itself but I pulled actual sizes from a few mufflers online, chose circle and oval pipe sizes based on rough numbers for flow, and started up our CAD software. Here's the result after a couple hours.




    You'll need to ignore the left side since I'm leaning towards a tri-Y header design to widen the powerband and clearly it sticks forward of the actual body opening right now. The bottom element is a side skirt that would be enabled with my widebody setup and having to put in some wheel arch flares to fit the tires completely.

    As stated, completely a thought experiment but since I haven't had time to touch the actual car, this was the next best thing for an engineer.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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  34. #107
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    A bit of a progression on the thought experiment. I measured some on the actual body and tried to better match them in 3D. I also added some wheels and the flares I'll need to support my other changes. I colored the body silver/steel/grey to better match how it'll be to reflect my thinking.


    In other news, since I was able to spend a few minutes of time in my garage after doing some yard work, I notched yet another frame member near the transmission mount location so it would clear the CV joint of the front driveshaft. Looking even closer now although it'll need a custom length in the end. The lowest point of the CV cup is flush with the bottom plane of the chassis and the current diameter driveshaft just clears the transmission mount plate
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  35. #108
    Senior Member John Dol's Avatar
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    Nice! I like the rendering, think that will look good.


    John
    Making progress on the "My Coupe, my way" project.

    http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/jdcoupe1969/
    Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
    First start Sept. 18 2013 First go kart Sept 19 2013

  36. #109
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    I've been thinking more about the front suspension and assembly and decided to spend a whopping $50 to help make some progress. That let me order front hubs for a recent Ford Explorer AWD model since they check a couple requirements. First, they're splined for front axles (27 splines), second they're 5x4.5 or 5x114.5 so they share the same wheel PCD as the 2015+ Mustang GT IRS hubs, third they have the same hub diameter meaning the same wheel bore with hubcentric rings and the ability to rotate tires, and an added fourth... they're super inexpensive if a bearing fails.


    They did come with the downfall of having a larger diameter hub section where the brake rotors go meaning the Wilwood aluminum rotor hat wouldn't fit. The hub also has what I found to be a 5/64" radius at the bottom which added some fun to make things flat. The Factory Five hubs and knuckles are much smaller in diameter, helped in large part by not needing an axle and splines going through it.


    All in all, I had to increase the rotor hat hub bore from about 3.05" to 3.23" along with an inboard chamfer to clear the hub radius. Not terribly complex but holding that in the lathe proved fun since I couldn't chuck it up internally since that was the machined area. Next up is stacking the hub, rotor, and wheel together to figure out the stud replacement lengths and pressing those in with ones that match the rear (unlike the FFR instructions which press out the rears to match the fronts.


    I'm also modeling up new rear suspension A-arms to support the longer rear axles. More on that later
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  37. #110
    Senior Member John Dol's Avatar
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    Experience+Ability+Equipment= next level build


    I know it will take a while yet but can't wait to see this one done. You are creating lot of challenges by going of the beaten path, and overcoming them.

    John
    Making progress on the "My Coupe, my way" project.

    http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/jdcoupe1969/
    Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
    First start Sept. 18 2013 First go kart Sept 19 2013

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  39. #111
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Visual update for the front:


    Next up on this is starting to design the knuckle to support this particular hub and caliper setup as well as figuring out the ackerman steering and tie rod placement.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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