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Thread: Making progress on my build...

  1. #281
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Dallas -
    I bought a big roll of some kind of insulation years ago that I used on my roadster and I really like it. I have plenty of it left to line the whole GTM. It could be EZ Cool, I can't remember. It is the stuff on top in this picture, so I think it's EZ Cool... But the core material is like a fine green bubble wrap just like in this picture, but the EZ Cool product page says it's a foam core? Maybe they've changed it?

    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  2. #282
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    That looks like EZ Cool.
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C in progress

  3. #283
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Happy Easter, everyone!

    My body does not want to line up with the wheels due to the gearbox subframe rear 1" tube limiting how far I can move the body forward.





    The problem is symmetrical. I need to move the body forward 15mm to even out my gaps. My subframe rests at its lowest level, ie sits where it's supposed to without the bolts tightened down. I could see the subframe shifting downward over a bump in the road if you try to clamp it into place by tightening down the bolts somewhere within the degrees of freedom of the mounting ears.

    So I need to move the rear 1" tube forward 15mm.





    Cutting marks scored and cut.



    Last edited by beeman; 04-01-2018 at 09:05 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  4. #284
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    That's more better



    Driver's side still a little egg-y shaped, but hey, it's Easter!

    Last edited by beeman; 04-02-2018 at 06:21 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  5. #285
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    I wanted a little more support for the body so I created a support bracket from some angle iron I had laying around. Bolted to the gearbox subframe rather than welded so the subframe can be removed with the body in place. Will pad the part that touches the body with adhesive weatherstripping.





    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  6. #286
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    I like it!!! Damn I wish I could weld, that’s the one skill I’m lacking in. Thankfully I have a local guy willing to come over and work at my place.

  7. #287
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    I like it!!! Damn I wish I could weld, that’s the one skill I’m lacking in. Thankfully I have a local guy willing to come over and work at my place.
    I went to Harbor Freight years ago and bought a 110v Flux wire welder, they are about $100. They work great but the welds are fairly ugly. Watch some YouTube videos and practice. If you enjoy it (it's one of the most enjoyable things I tinker with in the shop) upgrade to a decent gas MIG unit (my Hobart was maybe $600). If you can weld, your options are pretty much endless.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  8. #288
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Harbor Freight has just come out with a whole new line of mig welders. Looks like they have pretty good reviews on them.

    https://www.harborfreight.com/migmax...6.html#reviews

    That's their cheapest "nice" welder. Yes, they do have some REALLY cheap flux-core welders....but if you're just learning...I would say that it would be pretty difficult to tell if you were learning anything or not with a cheap flux core welder. I'm not a professional welder by any means, but I can make a pretty nice looking weld. With the cheap flux core, no matter what you do, it looks terrible. A good mig welder was one of the very first things I bought when I started this business of putting cars together.......at the time, my Hobart 180 was about the best you could buy in an entry-level 230V welder and I think it was just under $700. Looks like that new HF one I linked to above is probably just as good and more versatile than mine....looks like it has at least 10 voltage setting where my old Hobart only has 4....and it would be nice to have settings in between a lot of times.

    Welding is one of those things where it just takes practice. If you had a friend who could weld to get you started and maybe guide you thru for a half hour or so to show you what to do, after that, the best thing you can do is just get a bunch of scrap pieces of steel and go at it so you get a feel for it.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  9. #289
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Good points, Shane. I have seen ads for the new HF welders but haven't looked into them since I like my Hobart...
    I see the cheapo flex core welder as a way to get into the game for little cost. Good way to learn how to control the puddle, work the settings, etc. But by all means if you are convinced that you will be an amateur welder for the long run, get a gas mig unit.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  10. #290
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Getting the shifter mounted. The CMS billet shifter has an upper (removable) plate that sits on the top of the diverging 1" chassis backbone. I was thinking 'crap, with my seating position moved forward, I'll need a different mounting plate'. But actually if I move the shifter forward to where I want it, it sits nicely recessed in between the 1" tubes. So I'll just weld some mounting tabs in. I really like the billet look of the shifter, I may leave the guts exposed. I'm running cooling outside of the cockpit, so I may actually leave the backbone skeleton exposed without aluminum side paneling. All I need is some paneling on top for an arm rest. I think it will make the cockpit seem bigger. I'd cover the tubes in Alcantara or something...



    Last edited by beeman; 04-07-2018 at 08:21 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  11. #291
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Time to address the driver's side of the backbone before I mount the shifter. While I have full function of the steering wheel and new pedal locations, I don't like that my knee is touching the backbone. I'm concerned about it interfering with an emergent gas-to-brake movement. I'll modify it a little bit to give me another inch or two of room. My FIA style door bars are also lending some assistance to the rigidity of the chassis through the backbone region.



    Here's my mock up, I love the extra knee room! I think with a crossbar I should be nearly as rigid as before.

    Last edited by beeman; 04-07-2018 at 10:50 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  12. #292
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    You guys make some good points on the welding and with HF offering some more versitle units, it may be the right time to start looking into it.

    Nice work on the extra leg room.

  13. #293
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Trying to decide whether to mount the shifter on top of the 1" tubes or beneath (1" lower). I'm thinking lower, probably going to run a shift boot after all, this aluminum scuffs easily...





    I must say, this knob makes me feel a little excited (in a completely heterosexual way of course)! Something about seeing the shifter in there... Getting closer!



    Last edited by beeman; 04-09-2018 at 06:16 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  14. #294
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Ok, time to address the body now that the rear end is where it should be.

    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  15. #295
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    I was in a situation where the front fenders and hood are free floating since they've been cut up.



    So I made some mounting supports/'trunk deepeners' that match the contour of the hood. The fenders will hard mount to these supports, and the hood will rest on flanges when it's closed.



    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  16. #296
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Driver's side fender support/mount tacked in. Now my fender is set, time to finish the driver's door. I might be able to avoid fender vents, will vent from rear of fender, I'll see if that's enough outflow since radiator outflow will be here as well.



    Got my heater, $80 shipped from the Far East. Has twin centrifugal fans instead of weak 'computer fans' like most aftermarket heaters. Probably initially forego a/c, not as necessary as a heater in my climate. Just pop out the targa on hot days. Fits great right where I was hoping.





    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  17. #297
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Finishing up the front end, with the body cut up I'm removing any asymmetry. Going for equal angles and measurements within 1mm side to side. The gaps above the headlights will be blended in, the gaps below them will be filled with intakes to the brake cooling ducts. Getting ready to hinge the front trunk, 350z roadster trunk hinges, cool cam-like lift motion.





    Last edited by beeman; 04-28-2018 at 10:06 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  18. #298
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Snuck home for lunch, more fiberglass grinding bit by bit to tie the fender into the windshield..





    Last edited by beeman; 04-30-2018 at 11:52 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  19. #299
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    A little break from the GTM. Taking the roadster to Putnam Park this weekend, changing fluids and pads...

    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  20. #300
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    Beeman, you are the MacGyver of the GTM!

  21. #301
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith1 View Post
    Beeman, you are the MacGyver of the GTM!
    I HAVE gone through a lot of duct tape!

    I may have the modified radiators next week, will get them mounted up and ducted, then finish the front end and trunk.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  22. #302
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    That is an overwhelming amount of fabrication!! Sort of makes me wish I had the time to do stuff like that.....
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  23. #303
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC View Post
    That is an overwhelming amount of fabrication!! Sort of makes me wish I had the time to do stuff like that.....
    That's the problem we all have - not enough time in a day!

    Still feeling a little vulnerable in a side impact situation. Tacked in some scrap tubing, really gives me a lot more metal between my left shoulder and a 4k pound bumper. Doesn't make getting in/out that much more difficult. Thoughts?



    I think the GTM in general is not overly photogenic. Meaning I always think that while the GTM looks pretty darn good in pictures, the GTM's I see in person look 100x better. I think that photos don't capture the sleekness, the curves, the personality of the car that a walk-around gives you. It needs to be seen in 3 dimensions. I think my concoction suffers a little bit from that as well, I'm having trouble taking good photos that capture what I'm seeing in the shop. I think the design is working well.





    Yep, that's at ride height. Plenty of room for suspension travel for off-road excursions...for now!

    Last edited by beeman; 05-09-2018 at 11:09 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  24. #304
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    I would say that is a "completely your call" thing. Looks like you have the main roll cage right there at the B-pillar, so it would take a pretty specific set of circumstances for that new diagonal tube to be the difference between serious injury/death or walking away. If you were building this as a track car, I'd like to have it there. For a street car?.....not sure.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  25. #305
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC View Post
    would take a pretty specific set of circumstances for that new diagonal tube to be the difference between serious injury/death or walking away.

    Shane,

    I don't know what streets Beeman will be driving on but here in Texas I would like that bar being there a bit more. He already said that it was going to be setting lower and that will put him eye level with the bumper of most trucks around here. That would mean if being hit on the side there is a chance that the bumper of that truck is going to go right over the lower part of the roll cage.

    I have a buddy here with a Lotus Europa and if the ride height is anything like it... When riding in his car you are eye level with the lug nuts on the truck next to you. Makes you realize how small you really are.


    Does anyone have photos of a GTM in a parking lot with trucks parked on both sides. I saw some photos like that with a Cobra type vehicle and it really makes the car look very small.
    Tim Sapp
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  26. #306

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    FYI...after my only big "incident" on track where a BMW T boned me in the drivers door of the PDG GTM, well, actually JUST behind the drivers door, I have been trying to come up with a "safer mouse trap". I have thought about door bars IN the doors that would engage something on the main cage, but the flip side of that is that it could make it much more difficult to get out if needed after an incident. I am likely to put titanium plate on the door bars and also an impact absorbing composite and foam "crash box" in both doors, but beyond that...I am still just considering.

    The crash can be seen here...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXZCpQ-GkI

    You've come this far with fab work, I think I would add it.
    www.myraceshop.com

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  27. #307
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Mike, I remember seeing that video. An angular impact at track speeds is every bit as energetic as a T-bone at street speeds when you look at the speed vectors.
    Before I tacked in that bar, I had the same mindset of beefing up the bar in the door, but that adds weight to the hinged structure which stresses it more, and more importantly you are relying on the latch to not fail in the impact. With that new bar tacked in, I immediately felt a warm fuzzy feeling of "hey, I might survive getting drilled on my door!" I'll play around with the specifics, but now that I have sat in the cockpit with that bar, I don't want to be in the cockpit WITHOUT that bar. Will just have to clearance the door card for it, doesn't affect power window or other mechanisms.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  28. #308
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Received my modified (thanks so much for all of your help, Dave!) Honda radiators yesterday, got out to the shop for a few minutes to drop in the driver's side. Should be good to go, will get them mounted and ducted and run the coolant lines as well.





    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  29. #309
    Procision-Auto's Avatar
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    I've been away for too long. It seems like you're making great progress! The side profile doesn't seem as radical as I'd imagined
    from your photo renderings. I can't wait to see this GTMR2 come together.
    Custom LCD Gauges , Data Loggers, Performance Parts
    www.procision-auto.com \\ 647-522-9953 \\ Voice & Text
    Proud new owner of GTM Gen 1., #105 - 08/27/11
    LQ9 Powered, G96.00 6 speed transaxle

  30. #310
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Slowly but surely, Tino!

    When I made the front belly pan, I didn't pay enough attention to the underbody airfoil and actually created a bit of a 'zig-zag' in the underbody. FFR actually did the right thing under the car, the flat underbody isn't completely flat from front to back, there is an upslope to the belly pan that starts around the footbox. This gives the underbody a generic airfoil shape. I didn't pay attention to this and made my belly pan flat to the ground rather than continuing the forward upslope of the belly pan. You can see the mistake here :



    Here it is after correcting the error :



    So the smooth underbody gives minimal resistance. But more importantly, downforce (or more accurately low pressure or 'suction') can be created by a diffuser effect. A completely flat underbody can provide this by running rake on the chassis. The gradually increasing distance between the underbody and the road creates a negative pressure that "sucks" the car down, offsetting some of the lift created by the bodywork. This can be accentuated by a diffuser at the rear of the car.

    The GTM as delivered incorporates a rear carbon fiber diffuser, but I haven't looked at it yet on my build. I am concerned that the angle of the diffuser may be too steep which would cause airflow detachment and greatly hurt the diffuser effect. But this can be corrected by lowering the angle if that's the case. Another thing is that the maximal "suction" created by a diffuser occurs around the area that the diffuser begins to angle upwards. On the GTM, this is around the gearbox, so you are creating downforce at the rear of the car that already has a 60% rear weight bias. Downforce anywhere is desirable, but wouldn't it be nice to move that maximal suction to the front half of the car? Chassis rake accomplishes this to some degree, but it's not as efficient as moving the diffuser entry point forward.

    So it's nice that the GTM chassis has this front "upslope" that starts around the footbox. By continuing this upslope to the very front of the car, ideally to the bottom edge of a front splitter device, you are creating an airfoil.

    So ideally you will run the chassis rake so that this front "upslope" is level with the road surface, causing the underbody behind this point near the footbox to slope up gradually from that point to the rear end of the car. You are essentially making the rear 2/3 of the car a great big diffuser, with the maximum low pressure / "suction" at the level of the footbox, right where these cars need it.

    So pay attention to the bottom of your car!

    Here's a couple of images from "Competition Car Aerodynamics" (great book!):

    This first image shows 2 car underbodies with 2 different diffuser starting locations, I drew a red line where the diffuser effect starts on my GTM.



    This second image below shows the 2 above diffusers depicted as 2 halves of a CFD model with the short diffuser on the top half, long diffuser on the bottom half. Front of car is to the left. Blue is low pressure, green moderate, red/yellow high. Look at 2 things:
    -the location of maximal negative pressure (SUCTION)
    -the MAGNITUDE of negative pressure
    Wow!

    Last edited by beeman; 05-18-2018 at 07:52 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  31. #311
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Very interesting.
    Heading to the shop to check out mine....
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C in progress

  32. #312
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallas_ View Post
    Very interesting.
    Heading to the shop to check out mine....
    On the SL-C?
    I just crawled under the car (Ok.. I have a lift).
    Here's a pic of a straight edge on the forward belly pan, with my digital angle gauge, I'm measuring 4.4 degrees difference between the front belly pan and the rear 2/3 belly pan.
    I'm finding that 7 degrees is about as high as you'd want to go without wind tunnel testing, so I like 4.4. The engine and gearbox have to go somewhere! Will probably set the rear carbon fiber diffuser up another 7 degrees relative to the rear body pan.

    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  33. #313
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Ordered some radiator mounts for a Ford Bronco, should be here by the end of the week.



    Here's my final seat position (but not the final seats). Seat lower and upper halves will be independently bolted to the chassis. Seat back is 6-7" forward of the original firewall, it's as far back as I'm comfortable at 6'3". Very relaxed and roomy driving position. Steering wheel is removable, makes life easier with the extra door bar.





    Last edited by beeman; 05-19-2018 at 09:07 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  34. #314
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Modified the hood slightly, extended so that I can access the soon-to-be-added radiator bleed ports, just going to run Crash's engine bay header tank, deleting front surge tank.



    The Bronco radiator supports work, but a primary goal of mine is to completely seal all of the incoming air to the radiators. So I fabricated 1/2" tube mounts that seal to the fronts of the radiators with weatherstripping. Next step is ducting. No air is going around my radiators.



    Last edited by beeman; 05-29-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  35. #315
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  36. #316

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    Man, you have GOT to be pleased with your progress!! I have said it before, but I really admire your mad fab skills!

    I have always enjoyed seeing your updates, your creativity, and your serious craftsmanship!! It's looking great.

    I look forward to the next update, and really appreciate you sharing your progress.

    It's going to look awesome!!

    Regards,

    Steve

  37. #317
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Thanks, Steve!
    Got the upper door bars notched, I like the added protection.



    Took some time today to work on the radiator outflow ducting. I think it will function very well. Just a few more ducting panels to make.







    As you can see in the next couple photos, the outer wall of the duct protects the radiator from tire debris and air disruption created by the rotating tire when driving straight or slightly turned. So no detriment to efficiency in a straight line when cooling is most critical. In a corner with significant wheel turn, the tire will come into the air path, not worried about air disruption/efficiency while turning, but I'll probably need a protective mesh to protect the radiator from debris kicked up in a turn.





    Passenger side

    Last edited by beeman; 06-16-2018 at 09:55 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  38. #318
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Good progress!
    Love watching it come along.
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C in progress

  39. #319
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Thanks for checking in, Dallas! Always looking for input and opinions. You guys make me glad to know I'm not the only one reading this thread!



    Last edited by beeman; 06-19-2018 at 07:25 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3

  40. #320
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    You are definitely not the only one reading this thread .

    Got to love bringing CFD analysis into the discussion as well. My background is in Aerospace Engineering, specifically turbine engine design and mostly aerospace methods of manufacturing, but shifted over to Program Management a year or so ago as it had a more appealing career progression path for me. I have the utmost respect for my older sheet metal fabricators that share the same skillsets you are using here. Those guys could work magic when it came to all the development programs I worked over the years.

    Keep up the great work and posting. I love seeing what other GTM builders are up to. It also gives me some great ideas. Dang I need to get back in my garage and leave the fishing alone for a bit LOL.

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