Yeah, I think you could likely market this to car builders.
I will think seriously about this, I may just setup and company and go from there, if I setone up I will become vender here so I can spend more time talking and marketing them.
Need some request for BCM and see if these devices can handle it.
Sorry Beeman, did not mean to derail thread a bit.
Holy cow, this thread dropped to page 3!
Been busy with life and 2 other car projects.
Got the C5 track car done, just needs a cage. Built to SpecCorvette spec. Doing HPDEs and hope to start racing when life allows.
Tino is finishing up my custom dash for my Lotus Esprit project, hope to be running in the next few weeks.
Found some time to get back to work on the GTM. Going to pull molds off the front hood and bumper since there are so many changes. Filling in the major voids with drywall joint compound, then body filler, then seal everything and pull molds.
Just a heads up. The joint compound is likely to crack and print through. I have even had fiberglass reinforced seams under significant amounts of body filler crack and show through. The issue seems to be having enough, or not enough, support to keep the two pieces from flexing and/or moving with temperature changes. I finally had to go to using a backing of fiberglass and resin and then V cutting the face and using fiberglass and resin. I am still redoing some areas where I only used the backing and not the reinforcement on the face.
Just a heads up. The joint compound is likely to crack and print through. I have even had fiberglass reinforced seams under significant amounts of body filler crack and show through. The issue seems to be having enough, or not enough, support to keep the two pieces from flexing and/or moving with temperature changes. I finally had to go to using a backing of fiberglass and resin and then V cutting the face and using fiberglass and resin. I am still redoing some areas where I only used the backing and not the reinforcement on the face.
Even for just taking a mold? I could see it being an issue if you paint it, but I’ve never had an issue with it lasting long enough to use as a buck.
Yeah I'm just hoping it lasts about a week! I'll let the compound fully dry before moving forward. I did put some expanding foam into the deepest part of the roof scoop recess to fill some of the void.
Shop is climate controlled, currently 71 degrees and 41% humidity.
Even for just taking a mold? I could see it being an issue if you paint it, but I’ve never had an issue with it lasting long enough to use as a buck.
Well, I prime and paint my plugs. Only way I have found to get a smooth enough surface to work with the mold releases I use. Actually, I guess that is not true as I have never tried to use a surface that is not painted and polished. Maybe it will work with just release over body filler? Never tried that. Guessing the imperfections would show though.
To me, it all depends on what you're after. If I were to be making a mould that I was going to use over and over again to make multiple parts, then yes, I would try to make everything as perfect as possible....but I've had good luck even with that by just using body filler over urethane marine foam, then painting the filler and creating a mould from that.
In beeman's case, if he's really just needing/wanting one good part, it's a bit overkill IMO to try to make the plug perfect. As long as the joint compound and the overall part is supported enough to survive laying FG and resin over (which really shouldn't be putting much stress or load on the plug) it should be fine. Why spend weeks on filler and sanding and priming and painting and blocking in order to create a perfect surface to pull the mould from if you're just making one part? I've done the same has him before.....used joint compound to fill the pores in the foam and get the foam smoothed out and use the joint compound to get the shape exactly how you want it, then paint over the surface with a brush or fine roller with latex house paint, spray on my mould release and lay out the mould from there. Will the surface be perfect? No.....but if you lay down a good layer of gelcoat, you will have more than enough gelcoat to block out the orange peel from the latex paint. You can still pull multiple parts from the mould, but instead of putting dozens of hours into the plug to make it perfect, now you can put a couple hours of block sanding the gelcoat to make the final part perfect. If the mould is going to have to be in multiple pieces, there's no way you're going to get a perfect part anyway and you're still going to have to block the whole thing out and body-filler the seams.....so why waste all of that time trying to make the plug perfect? Again.....that's my logic for moulds that you're going to just make one or two parts from. Just my $0.02
Shane Vacek
VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC www.vraptorspeedworks.com
Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts
Plan is to pull 1 part, additional parts only if needed if you know what I mean...
Both the hood and the bumper will be 2-piece molds.
Appreciate the input from everyone!
Back to the GTM. Huge sidetracks with the C5 track car, Turbo Esprit, and 76 911s...
Getting the hood closer, but got bored and cut off the door hinges again... This car is begging for butterfly doors... I'm trying not to think about the brutality of making it work, multiple previous failures...
Hey Chewy! Hope the GTM is finished to join you in London next year!
A few hours yesterday and today, I believe this will work. Never got far enough for a gas strut on previous attempts. Found a very old used gas strut in the shop, I'm impressed how it handled the door and window glass/mechanism /motor. Just a relatively small amount of more weight with the outer skin and door card. Will use a few inches longer strut. I'm very happy with this.
Just a heads up. The joint compound is likely to crack and print through.
Good call. The joint compound absolutely cracked terribly, 1/4' wide cracks. I would NOT use it again even on a sacrificed part. Took a long time to dry too. But in the end it was a space/volume filler, cracking filled with body filler.
Thanks, appreciate it!
Got the driver's side welded up today. Tedious getting it lined up perfectly symmetrically so the doors match when fully open. Measuring angles in 2 planes with the digital gauge, while holding and welding... Cardboard Aided Design was helpful getting the hinge symmetrical with the unibody, just trace and flip over. After it was all welded up, I measured from the shop floor to identical locations on the hinges (chassis is on blocks) and amazingly I'm right on. Probably should have checked that before I committed but I hadn't considered it in my plan. We'll only know the quality of my work when both doors are open...
Thanks, Joel. I've enjoyed watching your SL-C build.
This is a painful process. Many attempts to get the doors symmetric. Each attempt means multiple measurements followed by multiple tack welds between the hinge and the chassis, plus getting the door aligned and welding the hinge mechanism to the door internals...and it takes quite a few welds plus welding in triangulating tubing so the door is stable enough to test. Only to ultimately find that I don't completely like the way they are positioned when open - I think that adjustments can be made to improve ingress /egress. They looked beautiful, completely symmetric...but I tore them back apart. I'm not sure how many tack welds I've cut this past week...more than I want to admit...
Anyways, getting closer.
dave,
any way to slot the plates on the door to allow for some wiggle room and adjustability once the mounts are on?
Yes, the mounts are slotted but only in one plane which helps very little. For a butterfly door, you are dealing with x, y, z positioning plus rotation so you'd need a locking ball joint of sorts, actually a ball joint that you can shift in, out, fore, aft, up, down. As I write this, I realize that last sentence sums up the pain of this exercise.
But for a butterfly door, to make the door skin clear the front 1/4 panel, the hinge point has to be just under the 1/4 panel. This sets the hinge point way off the main chassis tubes which puts a ton of torque force on the mount, so it has to be very rigid, ie welded.
I believe you are having issues because you are essentially trying to use a one point mount. Maybe try using two mounting points and spread them out a little?
I think the doors on the FFR PDG GTM race car turned out pretty cool. One of the keys to them is making them, essentially, half height doors. This makes the doors easier to deal with and also allows you to put in a heightened sill which has many benefits. You can slide in and out while sitting on the sills, they offer better side impact protection, and you can put car elements inside them. While the hinge parts are on the exterior of the car currently, they are on the list to move inside the bodywork and should be a pretty easy change. Just something to think about.
I was going to post pictures, but the photo manager is not currently available, at least for me, right now.
Thanks, Mike.
Everything is a compromise...
I recall looking at that option previously. I'm using the donor unibody A-pillar which likely wouldn't support the weight of the door like the tube chassis would.
It would involve hinging off the A-pillar cage tubing, which would involve some form of custom hinge to keep the mounting point in the cabin.
How do you intend to bring the hinge internally?
Thanks,
Dave
Likely will use a J shaped hinge that, when the door is open, will wrap around the body as, like you pointed out, I will be attaching to the roll cage tubing. Our door is self-opening and limited in opening travel by a gas shock. Likely attachment point will be on the INSIDE of the A pillar tube in order to get enough throw on the hinge. Will be an interesting project.
Lots of cycles of body filler /block sand /body filler...
Building up low areas where the rad vents were and where the new fascia transitions to the GTM hood. Ran out of Bondo, my 2 gallons of Rage Gold were past their prime. So I picked up a gallon of Evercoat which was available locally. Seems like decent stuff, lighter than bondo,easy to sand. About time for another gallon.
I've been using the Evercoat Lite Weight body filler (100156) for years now and like it better than the Rage Gold. I could never get the Rage Gold to not clog the paper up.
Looks like you're making good progress!
Shane Vacek
VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC www.vraptorspeedworks.com
Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts
I've been using the Evercoat Lite Weight body filler (100156) for years now and like it better than the Rage Gold. I could never get the Rage Gold to not clog the paper up.
Yes, hardly having any paper clogging issues with this compared to the bondo.
This is definitely lighter than other body fillers I have used, obviously I'm just using it to make a buck for a mould, do you use it on a final surface? Good durability?
Anywhere that I need more than just a light skim coat, I use Evercoat 100622 short strand fiberglass filler. Once everything is close to shape, then I skim coat with the 100156 filler.....and from there it goes to primer.
Shane Vacek
VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC www.vraptorspeedworks.com
Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts
Yes, hardly having any paper clogging issues with this compared to the bondo.
This is definitely lighter than other body fillers I have used, obviously I'm just using it to make a buck for a mould, do you use it on a final surface? Good durability?
I am using the same, and for the same purposes. What I find really nice is how fast it cures to being sandable. I can lay it down and 15 minutes or so later I can sand it off. I also use a "cheese grater" to rough shape just as it is starting to firm up. This saves a lot of time sanding if you are not precise in your layment of the goo.
The 100156. Now I want to track down some 100622. Never used it but would likely help with minor stress cracks I sometimes get...even over fiberglass and resin "bridges".
Getting closer to pulling a mould. Headlight openings were something I've been putting it off, not liking the way the hood would match up to the outer lens of the light in the manner that the R1 fairing would. Also some concerns about keeping the airflow from catching the front of the hood above the light at high triple digit speeds. Then it dawned on me, do it differently, all that matters is that the light isn't blocked. Started on driver's side. Taped off the headlight with clear tape so I can see the light projectors, then masked off a line with masking tape of where I wanted the hood to extend. Came up with an idea (I'm sure it's been done before) to create a dam with plasticine (thickness approximately equal to the anticipated composite thickness), then mudded up to the dam. Still needs some minor smoothing, then make a template to keep things symmetrical on the passenger side.
Let's get this show back on the road... Sidetracked by Esprit Turbo build, C5 track car build, 911 build. Back to my original love (after the Cobra build of course)...
Need to finalize the hood so I can pull a mould, which means finalizing the front fascia so the mating edges are finalized. Transferred the headlight cutout to the passenger side. The low beam light output hits the upper part of the fascia, blocking part of the beam. I marked the fascia where I planned to cut a recess for the low beam, but eventually realized that I should drop the whole headlight shelf of the fascia, which would better transition into the headlight and hood.
Hope you are doing well, Mike!
I have been sidetracked with the other projects, and 4 kids in sports. The 89 Turbo Esprit project took quite a while, went through the whole car. I wanted the result to be something that the Esprit is typically not...Reliable! New interior, new engine, new gearbox, new HVAC, new sound system, completely rewired the car, etc, etc. Culminated with a 1500 mile road trip to the Tail of the Dragon with my local car club (100+ cars went). The car was amazing and basically flawless. We broke into 5 speed groups for 2 days in the mountains, I started in group 5 thinking my 2XX HP Esprit is 34 years old and should not be with the McLarens, Lamborghinis, Porsches, high HP Vettes, etc. I was just looking forward to a GT style cruise through the mountains. Group 5 lost our local guide car early, so the Esprit became the lead car, and I was constantly being told to slow down and allow the other cars to catch up (we had radios). Day 2, I was placed in group 1 (basically WOT through the mountains with very good drivers) and was riding the bumper of the car in front of me through every corner. No way I could keep up with the cars with 2-3x my HP in the straight sections. I was floored by the performance of the car with "Historic" plates.
That's awesome, thank you for sharing. I can't wait to get my GTM back from Shane. Driver should be in my neighborhood next week to pick it up and deliver it to Iowa.
Mike, I think the fascia will look good with rounding that feature you are looking at.
Another tangent, going to 3D print a custom projector headlight bucket for the passenger side with heat formed Acrylic lens and see which I like better before proceeding. No wonder this thing isn't done yet!
3D printing has its place, but so does cardboard and plywood. Adjusting something 10mm here, 10mm there takes 3 minutes with plywood and superglue, but 36 hours with printing a headlight bucket. Off to a good start. Let me know if anyone has seen any cool DRL/Switchback turn signals that would looks good in this headlight bucket under an acrylic lens. Thanks!
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