Russ Thompson Turn Signal wiring

[Ducky2009]

Joel,
Here's the info I promised you. Wiring per the Coyote Fitment - Roadster manual (page 74) will eliminate the inertia switch. The attached pic is from an older manual, but it too is wrong. See pic for how to wire and keep inertia switch in operation.


Fuel Pump Wiring.png

[Jdav]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

[edwardb]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Yes. Wired per post #4, a SPST is used for the hazards. Closing the two wires completes the circuits for the pink hazard feed to supply +12V to the turns signals on all four corners. The diodes prevent the hazard circuit from backfeeding into the turn signal circuit.

[Ducky2009]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Joel, if you wire per the FFR instructions, Chassis Wiring Harness, page 29, and use a DPST switch (supplied), you don't need diodes in the circuit. One less thing to go wrong in the system.

[Jdav]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Brake lights work
Rear running lights work
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Front running lights work

Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work

[edwardb]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Brake lights work
Rear running lights work
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Front running lights work

Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work

I can't offer any specific advice other than to go back through the diagram and carefully check all the wiring. You have a circuit crossing with another (flashing hazards with high beam indicator) and circuits not working (turn signals, headlights) that aren't necessarily related. Also check the wiring at each of your running lights/turn signals/brake light fixtures. It's easy to get things crossed up there. Either of your own doing or occasionally the fixtures themselves have crossed wires out of the box. Confirm the proper ground, high, and low intensity connection in each.

[boat737]

Take one symptom at a time. Even though they may or may not be related problems, tackling one issue at a time will keep things simple (or simpler). Also, a Power Probe is fantastic in these types of issues. A required tool when doing these types of projects, and especially diagnosing these types of problems.

As for the Blue (hi beam) light flashing with the hazards, sounds like it is hooked into the flashing/hazard circuit, where the Green (right turn) light should be. Start there. Begin at the dash blue light, and trace it back to where it is hooked into the system and where it's getting it's 12 volts. Do the same with the Green (right turn) dash light. That may be just simply swapping those two wires.

As for the headlights, they are independent of the turn signal system, so it should be it's own separate problem. Start by making sure you have 12v going to the switch. As EdwardB says, test power and proper wiring at each socket (in this case the headlight sockets, and later all of the turn/brake/parking light sockets.) Make sure the 12v is on the proper contact, and ground is on the proper contact, and in fact a good ground. Jump 12v to the headlight bulbs to make sure they work and are not the problem (again the Power Probe is awesome).

I just went through an issue of the green left turn dash indicator light illuminating when the brake pedal was pushed. Everything else in my lighting and electrical system worked perfectly, except that. It was a simple problem, that because of the behind the dash wiring and lack of room was not so easy to fix, but it simply was that that indicator light was wired to the REAR turn light, instead of the FRONT turn light. Simple, just not easy. But by starting at the dash indicator, and following it to where it got 12v power, I figured it out and I got it fixed.

Get a Power Probe.

[2bking]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work

The high beam indicator light should only connect to the high beam circuit and come on when the high beams are powered. The fact that this light comes on with the turn signals indicates a wiring error with the high beam indicator. The other problems could be related to diodes being backwards, grounds not completed, or a wiring error.

[Jdav]

King, if I cant run down the issue, I may see if you can make me one of those modules you posted about - that would sure clean up the mess of wires I have currently. I honestly feel like the RT turn signal/hi beam/low beam wiring has been the most challenging part of the build.

[Jdav]

One other question - which wire goes to which terminal on the headlights? I assume black to black, but the other colors dont match up.

[edwardb]

King, if I cant run down the issue, I may see if you can make me one of those modules you posted about - that would sure clean up the mess of wires I have currently. I honestly feel like the RT turn signal/hi beam/low beam wiring has been the most challenging part of the build.

IMO the schematic you're trying to use makes things seem a lot more complicated than they really are. Especially if you're not comfortable with things electrical. If you start from the Ron Francis schematic provided with the harness, and follow each of the circuits using the FF supplied switches, you'll see things are maybe a little easier to understand. With the standard wiring and switches, you can have left and right turn signals with indicators, hazards, high and low headlights with an indicator. The only thing missing is the flash to pass. No diodes as long as you use the double pole switch for the hazards to keep the hazard circuit from feeding into the turn signals. With that working, you can replace the SPDT FF supplied turn signal switch with the turn signal switch in the Russ Thompson turn signal. It's exactly the same thing.

At that point, the only thing missing is using the momentary switch on the Russ Thompson turn signal for high/low beam and even flash to pass. That's when relays are needed. You can forget that and use the button for something else, like your horn. Or use a module like the one King designed. Or find a different schematic that only wires in the headlight relays. All the other stuff in the schematic you're trying to use is nice (I guess) but isn't necessary to make things work. Maybe that helps at least sort it out a little.

One other question - which wire goes to which terminal on the headlights? I assume black to black, but the other colors dont match up.

The RF harness front harness has Brown for high beam, Red for low beam, and Black for ground. They're marked. On the FF supplied pigtails for the headlights, White is high beam, Red is low beam, Black is ground.

[Jdav]

I'm making progress.
Headlights are now working and RT button activates hi/low beams as planned. I think my issue was either that I didnt have both lights hooked up at the same time or my temporary connections werent actually connected. either way, working now.

Dash indicator lights are now working. I had switched the wires coming out of the gauge. Hi beam indicator was blue and i connected to the blue rt turn ind wire. Dumb mistake.

Now i just need to figure out why the turn signals arent working.

[edwardb]

I'm making progress.
Headlights are now working and RT button activates hi/low beams as planned. I think my issue was either that I didnt have both lights hooked up at the same time or my temporary connections werent actually connected. either way, working now.

Dash indicator lights are now working. I had switched the wires coming out of the gauge. Hi beam indicator was blue and i connected to the blue rt turn ind wire. Dumb mistake.

Now i just need to figure out why the turn signals arent working.

You're getting close. Great! If your hazards are working, then the harness connections to your lights are good. Maybe something as simple as the specific wires you're using from the RT turn signal. One is common, and goes to the grey turn signal power wire shown in the diagram. The others are left and right and connect to common depending on the stalk position. Wire per the schematic, and should work.

[Jdav]

I tried switching the wires from the RT around to see if possibly they were different than noted, but still nothing.
I then used a jump wire to connect where I had the RT right and left (separately) input on the terminal block to the common input and the signals functioned.
So I have determined that RT stalk is not making the proper manual connection when activated. Since neither the left or right work, I assume it is the common. I'm going to call Russ tomorrow to see if he has any ideas

[Jdav]

Anyone know how I can test the connections inside of the Hub?

[edwardb]

Anyone know how I can test the connections inside of the Hub?

It's pretty easy to test the RT assembly with either a VOM or a continuity tester. There are five wires coming out of the assembly. The two small gauge wires are the momentary switch. Clip onto those with your tester. They should have continuity (closed) with the button pushed, and no continuity (open) with the button released. The three remaining larger gauge wires are the turn signal. One is common, one is left, one is right. Don't trust any schematics or color codes. Just test them. Pick two wires and clip onto them. Check for continuity with the stalk in the left and then right turn position. If one of them works, that's the combination for that direction. If neither works, you have the left and right wires. Remove one and clip to the remaining wire. That should give you one direction. With this process of elimination you should be able to find the right wires. It's a simple switch.

[Jdav]

I have no continuity on the turn signal to common wires.
I spoke to Russ, and the only thing we can think of is that the spring inside of the switch popped loose.
I'm sending it back to him to take a look.
Russ was very helpful.

[edwardb]

I have no continuity on the turn signal to common wires.
I spoke to Russ, and the only thing we can think of is that the spring inside of the switch popped loose.
I'm sending it back to him to take a look.
Russ was very helpful.

Sorry to hear that, but Russ will take care of you.

[JRL16]

I had some issues with mine. Wound up being wires in the hub weren't connected where they were supposed to be. After connecting them in a couple of different ways they finally worked as they should. It is a little extra work but is worth it in the long run.

[cfriedman67]

Some of the images don’t come up and say something about updating your account to allow third party hosting? Is that something I need to do?

[lahrs37]

Some of the images don’t come up and say something about updating your account to allow third party hosting? Is that something I need to do?

For years and years people on all types of forums used Photobucket to host their pictures for free. Photobucket decided that they weren't making enough money and now for those pictures to be available people need to pay a subscription. They basically broke a huge part of the internet's collective knowledge. It really is heartbreaking.

[cfriedman67]

Thanks for letting me know.

[Jdav]

Thanks for letting me know.

There is a chrome plug in you can add that will allow you to see the images. It was discussed in a post on here, but I cant seem to find it right now. If you use chrome as your browser, you should be able to search for photobucket hotlnk fix or photobucket embed fix.

[lahrs37]

There is a chrome plug in you can add that will allow you to see the images. It was discussed in a post on here, but I cant seem to find it right now. If you use chrome as your browser, you should be able to search for photobucket hotlnk fix or photobucket embed fix.

Thanks! That is like a miracle.

[cfriedman67]

Hi Jdav, in your post you mention to “Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30” I’m assuming that means I need to splice into the blue wire and make another connector as there is only one blue wire.

[Jdav]

Hi Jdav, in your post you mention to “Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30” I’m assuming that means I need to splice into the blue wire and make another connector as there is only one blue wire.

I used distribution blocks and jump wires

[cfriedman67]

Ok. Thanks

[ckrueger]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic


The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

This is the diagram I used and it all worked great!! I also used distribution blocks and jumper wires.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

For those of us that are wiring challenged there are spring loaded self centering "on off on" switches with long stems available to use as turn signal controllers.

[cfriedman67]

Appreciate the diagram. I hate to ask but what are distribution blocks? I have looked at your diagram many times. I am definitely electrically challenged and find this is the tuffest part. Do I need distribution blocks? Also, on the digram I don’t see the six pin hazard switch that I have anywhere on th diagram.

[Jdav]

In the photo, I have circled where the hazard toggle switch goes in this schematic. The switch provided is a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch with 2 inputs (center terminals) and 4 outputs (end terminals). You can use that and wire it to the terminals in the center and on one end, depending on which way you orient the switch. There is a full thread on that swich here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...990#post306990
Or, you can use a SPST switch if you use the diodes as in the diagram (I used the one that was provided for the turn signal since i wasnt using it for that purpose).

I have put a rectangle around all of the distribution blocks in the diagram. They are basically a place to connect 2 or more wires as the terminal each side is connected to each other.
I used these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[cfriedman67]

Thank you. I will order four of the terminal blocks and try again. Really appreciate the explanation and the links.

[cfriedman67]

Hopefully last question. If using the DPDT switch from factory five do I need to use any diodes? If not, in your diagram do I need to use a wire to replace the diodes or just leave them out totally of the distribution block?

[Jdav]

I'm really not sure on that one, maybe someone else with more electrical knowledge will chime in.

[edwardb]

If you're going to go this way, I'd recommend wiring it exactly like the schematic in post #71. Including with the diodes. You can still use the Factory Five provided DPDT switch. Just use two terminals. One of the center ones and one of the outer ones. Whichever way it orients the way you want. In that way, it acts like a SPST switch. With the two wired contacts closed, your hazards will work and with the installed diodes not backfeed to the turn signals.

[cfriedman67]

EdwardB thank you very much!

[cfriedman67]

Does it matter what gauge wire I use?

[cfriedman67]

89F9D873-0CD6-4428-9CB4-99DD12B3432E.jpeg. Hi Jdav, made s lot of progress but have a question. In the diagram that shows left and right turn signal wires coming from the Ron Francis wire harness there are three wires for each. One front one back and one extra in each left and right bundle. It shows two wires going across to the distribution block. What is the third wire for in each bundle? I have attached a picture. Thanks again for the help!!

[Jdav]

89F9D873-0CD6-4428-9CB4-99DD12B3432E.jpeg. Hi Jdav, made s lot of progress but have a question. In the diagram that shows left and right turn signal wires coming from the Ron Francis wire harness there are three wires for each. One front one back and one extra in each left and right bundle. It shows two wires going across to the distribution block. What is the third wire for in each bundle? I have attached a picture. Thanks again for the help!!

That is the dash signal indicator light feed
Looking at the diagram they are the wires directly across the distribution block from the signal lights - top right or the diagram

[Jdav]

Does it matter what gauge wire I use?

I used 18-gauge