As I've started spending real dollars, I figure I may as well start a build thread to help keep track and help organize my own thinking even though delivery won't happen until April 2023.
Background
Kit was originally ordered ~ March 2022 with estimated delivery Nov 2022
Around Oct 2022 I decided to push back delivery because just too much other life happening right then
New delivery target April 2023
Early Dec. 2022 attended Build School and met a couple of you folks there!
Build Specs
MK4 Complete Kit
Powdercoat Chassis
351W Engine Mounts
Hydraulic Clutch Master Cylinder Kit
Body Cutouts
2015 IRS
RH+LH Roll Bar - both powdercoat black
12.88" Wilwood Brakes
Delete Gauges (I think - still deciding if I want Speedhut)
Upgrade seat to Kirky low back (This seat seemed to be more snug at build school and added about 2" leg)
Wheels - currently ordered with Halibrand 17x9 all around - reconsidering this for something different
351W Dart Block built to 427 w/ Sniper - from Gordon Levy - on order
Tremec TKX - from Gordon Levy - on order
Gas-N headers and touring side pipes - on order
Transport: Stewart
Undecided
Wheels - The Hallibrand is forever in my head as the original 'look' from my childhood memories, but thinking about doing a "blackout" appearance, so shopping for something that comes matte black and looks right.
Gauges - Like the ability to customize the speedhut gauges, and - I forget what it was - but build school gauges showed the clock (I think) was backlit different from all the rest of the FFR GPS gauges, which sets off my OCD nerve a little.
Heater / Defroster - I'm in CA so probably would not use, but can see it being useful to extend the season
Power steering - Before build school, I wanted it - now on the fence.
Electric e-brake - Again a build school learning - the manual one is just awkward
Extras & Wish List
Breeze Battery Box
Breeze Radiator Fan Shroud + upper and lower mounts
Breeze cubby
Russ Thompson turn signal + 520 Speedworks hi-beam relay
Drop trunk
Heated seats (? maybe - think the wife would be more likely to go to cars and coffee on cool mornings ?)
Ford Galaxie / Mustang forward slanting shifter - again, for correctness with the car that has lived in my memory since about age 7
TODO - add to this
Engine and Trans Thinking
I get it, 427 refers to the body style... and a 427 engine is way, way more than I will ever make use of. It's just the way these cars have always lived in my head. I'm going to build one and only kit (at least according to my wife), so I don't want to have regrets when it is all done about woulda-coulda-shoulda.
At build school, @cc2Arider was there at same time, and I think we are pretty similar mentality. I'll give him the credit for convincing me to call Gordon Levy and talk to him about the powertrain. A couple of phone calls with Gordon later and my powertrain package was ordered.
Next Steps
What I can do now is get the garage ready. Will be limited to half a 2-car garage with a little overflow - so need to optimize.
Modify garage ceiling to allow me to suspend the shell / buck
Welcome aboard! Your order has lots of really nice options. I totally get the woulda-coulda-shoulda on what will likely be for some of us a once in a lifetime opportunity. Breeze makes lots of high quality options (as do other forum vendors): I have many on my build.
Glad you were able to go to the build school. I booked twice, but both classes were cancelled due to COVID restrictions. I didn't end up attending. I think it would have given me some great insights into the build, not to mention the great perspective you can only get from real-life hands-on. I think it will be a great advantage to you.
Enjoy your pre-build prep. tasks.
Chris Coupe complete kit: arriving ~ 4/22/24! Build Thread. Coyote. T-56. IRS w/3.55. Wilwoods. PS. HVAC. Side windows. MK4 Complete kit. Build Thread Index. Delivered: 10/15/2020. Legal: 7/25/23. Coyote Gen3. TKO600 (0.64 OD). IRS w/3.55. PS. Wilwoods. Sway bars. This build is dedicated to my son, Benjamin. Build Thread.
Hey just saw your post - - I'm on a similar path and would love to compare notes as we go along. Just put in an order with Gordon Levy for a 427 with Sniper, TKX, and will be doing Gordon's Wilwood recipe for brakes. Base kit should be delivered in June 2023, with the engine arriving perhaps later in the summer 2023. Same garage constraints, even same state (CA)!. Getting my ducks in a row now that I'm committed.
Congrats on your kit order and upcoming build. Couple of comments FWIW.
- The Speedhut clock gauge has no backlighting. Not just different. None. To be honest, it's no big deal because you may find like I have you don't drive that much at night. But if it really bothers you, replace the clock with a different gauge. Many use an oil temp gauge. There's a lot to like about the Speedhut gauges in my experience. I wouldn't change the brand for the clock backlighting issue.
- The standard e-brake location gets a lot of forum bandwidth. Personally never quite understand. I'm not tall or have long arms. But I can still reach it. And frankly not used all that much. An option many have done is putting a Lokar handle on top of the tunnel. Even the kit provided handle could be put on top of the tunnel. Like the Gen 3 Daytona does. Bolts directly to tabs welded to the transmission tunnel vs. the supplied brackets. An electric e-brake or even the Wilwood version that's right on the calipers are certainly options. What budget, right?
- You're going to get into some strange offsets putting 9" wheels on the standard IRS width rear. The tires are going to look really sucked in to the body. Compared to the traditional look. If you have to, spacers are an option. But could get kind of wide depending on the wheels. The wide tire rears are part of the look of these cars in my opinion. The FF Halibrand wheels can be painted or powder coated. Quite a few people do that. Lots of other wheel options. But I wouldn't compromise the look of the rear tires, how they fit the body, etc. just to get a blackout appearance. These cars are made for 11" rears and 315 tires. But that's me.
- I put heated seats in all my builds and my wife loves them. An easy add that I highly recommend.
- I'll make my standard pitch for power steering. Stop listening to these cars are light and it's all about effort. It's about the improved front end geometry (increased caster) that power steering allows. Significantly improves how the car tracks and drives. Having done both I wouldn't build one without it. The effort can be adjusted so it's not too light and you loose feel.
Last edited by edwardb; 12-31-2022 at 07:18 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Glad you got more of your "recipe" finalized -- this is the part that while frustrating at times, truly makes this yourbuild
I also understand your OCD about the "standard" parking brake location -- it just seems out-of-place. Perhaps made a lot of sense for the original small British ACs with right-hand-drive. I was looking into the "top mount" option and then decided that was for me after seeing Jeff Kleiner's roadster in-person. Thanks to Paul for identifying a Lokar option. I was going to mock up the standard parts and visualize the top mount (when that time comes) before proceeding on fab work.
I too, have been trying to get my garage space ready. I just bought a cheapy HB 4x8 folding trailer so that I can repurpose one of my motorcycle crates (and move it outside and use as a covered trailer) -- frees up another 4x8 footprint!
We ended up installing heated seats after a bit of research. It wasn't much money and didn't take much to install. I think well worth it.
All of the street rods and a Cobra I built in the 90's had manual steering racks and I never gave it a second thought. Lightweight car, why would I need power steering? That was my plan for this car too until two things happened. First, my wife broke her arm in three places and if she's ever going to drive it the power steering is probably a requirement. Second, thinking about the short wheelbase and remembering how twitchie my old Cobra was the increased caster would really be a big benefit when driving. I didn't like adding cost, parts, and complexity to my build (so says the guy with stack EFI) but after having driven it a few times I'm really glad I did the PS.
FYI, I have a brand new drop trunk kit still in the box if you're interested.
Hey, welcome to the big adventure! It's always fun to see the first post for a build thread. It will be fun to follow along.
I went down the path of power steering based on everything I read on the forum. I think it's a great choice if you want drivability in the parking lot but particularly at cruising speeds, without much if any downside in autocross. Did you have any downside voiced in your build class? Just curious at this point, since I've made my choice.
Similar comments as Paul's in relation to the e-brake ... it can definitely be made to work in a way that is fully satisfactory, just a few tweaks. I wouldn't say the same of some other items on the car (stock clutch cable, stock accelerator setup), but the e-brake with some adjustments is something I'm completely fine with.
But that's one of the strengths of the FFR approach, I think. There's a sound basic design, with lots of room for individual touches. For me, I actually liked the idea of the e-brake down on the side and out of the way, once I got used to it. I like the look of the uncluttered transmission tunnel top. I traded notes recently with someone focused on finding matching knobs for their fresh air vent pulls on the dash. It never occurred to me to put them there (mine are hidden under the dash, attached to the frame), even though I have plenty of controls on the dash. I think we get our own vision of how the car should look, and go with it ... which is great. Good luck refining your vision of the car, and getting the garage prep done. Two stalls is plenty of room.
MK4 #7838: IRS 3.55 TrueTrac T5z Dart 347
The drawing is from ~7th grade, mid-1970s
Meandering, leisurely build thread is here
Hi Vaughan!
I also understand your OCD about the "standard" parking brake location -- it just seems out-of-place. Perhaps made a lot of sense for the original small British ACs with right-hand-drive. I was looking into the "top mount" option and then decided that was for me after seeing Jeff Kleiner's roadster in-person. Thanks to Paul for identifying a Lokar option. I was going to mock up the standard parts and visualize the top mount (when that time comes) before proceeding on fab work.
Craig C
Yeah, it’s not that it is not functional as-provided - it seems to intrude into the passenger space. May not be a knee-knocker exactly, but just a lot of metal bits to have pushing into passenger’s space.
Thanks for info on top mount option, will investigate!
Yeah, it’s not that it is not functional as-provided - it seems to intrude into the passenger space. May not be a knee-knocker exactly, but just a lot of metal bits to have pushing into passenger’s space.
Thanks for info on top mount option, will investigate!
With the height of the seat and the way your knees bend when sitting in the passenger seat the side-mounted e-brake isn't in the way. Might look like it would be, but it isn't. It's under your legs/knees. I did all my Roadster builds with the e-brake handle down there and never had a passenger say anything about it. Including my wife who almost always cruised with me. People move it to make it more accessible for the driver, e.g. top of the tunnel or whatever. But really it's not in the way in the stock location.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
I haven't run into 520 speedworks until you mentioned their relay, so I checked them out, and oredered the boltless rollbar kit.
Yeah, I've been debating that one - as I don't think it would be accepted at any sort of track day - but then again, I have no plans on racing, but would maybe like to do one of the HPDE "drive with a pro tutor" type things
Since I am a few months out from delivery yet - and going stir crazy with colder / rain-ier weather (not that Sacramento is every super cold or rainy, but we are more so this winter) - I have been preparing what I can in the garage in anticipation.
Built a body buck
Built a stupidly over engineered frame dolly from plans I found somewhere here
Installed ceiling rail system to suspend body buck
Most important - put a Cobra sticker on the toolbox
Suspended Body Buck
I have a 3 car garage - just residential type. The small 3rd bay has always been my workshop area, and it's really not wide enough to use for vehicle, but it is extra deep so it's grown into my workshop where every tool is on wheels to allow quick reconfiguration.
So, the roadster will get one of the other 2 bays where I'll be able to move wife's car out to have room to move around.
That left me contending with the fiberglass body. My plan here is to suspend it from the ceiling mostly in the workshop bay but it will extend into the main 2 bay area, running perpendicular to the vehicles.
I've mounted 4 of these Harbor Freight Haul Master Tie Down rails on the ceiling, which gives me a lot of flexibility in moving my straps to the most convenient locations once the body is on the buck, and I have about 6 ft 4
walking space underneath so I should not be banging my head.
I'm going to do something like a cargo net inside the frame to hold body panels up and out of the way, but think I'll wait until the body is here to make sure I'm seeing the big picture of this thing hanging.
Also, this lifted pretty easy, but I don't like the way it comes down - basically me letting any one corner down 6-8" at a time and then repeating. Going to look into adding something like a reversible hand wench, but then again, this is probably only going up and down a handful of times at the end of the day.
First parts!
I may be putting the cart before the horse, but first box from Breeze arrived last week:
Center cubby
Steering rack eccentric bushings
Fan Shroud
Radiator mounting hinge kit
Battery relocation box
Headers and pipes from Gas-N are en-route and IRS center section has also shipped. Now to start finding where I can stash all the parts until I need them.
Let's see if I can figure out how to post pictures... Maybe not the most elegant way to do this.
I know what you mean about being stir-crazy anticipating your build delivery
I've been pretending to do meaningful work in my garage...not sure it will end up being that meaningful, but it's been good to finally get some things done. I'm insulating my workspace in anticipation of adding drywall and more lighting
Stewart delivered my kit yesterday and I've got her tucked into the garage and now working on inventory.
General observations:
I was expecting a large POL list, but it's really not that bad. Looks like it was originally 21 line items, but by the time the truck left, there are only about 8 items still on order - and nothing significant
Inventory and box organization is a lot better than I was expecting. Fastener kit was well labeled. Parts are more-or-less logically boxed together
I'm about 50% done with inventory, and so far (knock on wood) - things are 99% correct. My current list of deltas is only 4 line items right now - and 3 of those appear to be miscounts somewhere along the line. "24 nuts, but only 22 in baggie" type of thing.
It's possible to consolidate down boxes quite a lot - I had roughly 40 boxes and at least so far I'm reducing volume of box space by a lot just combining boxes or putting parts in my own totes.
Chassis dolly I built from plans somewhere on here is ... perfect. It's overkill design, but the frame is at a really good height to work with. I've been wondering how rough this was going to be on my back - but very pleased with what the work area looks like on dolly. FWIW, Stewart driver said he wished everyone built those rolling dollies. Right off truck gantry onto dolly and rolled up the driveway, spun it 180 degrees around in the garage and put it right where I wanted it.
Mine was on the same truck. Got mine on Wednesday. I totally know what you mean about the huge amount of work in front of me. Little bit terrified, not going to lie. But all in and it should be a lot of fun.
Good luck!
Dan
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Mk4 complete kit arrived 10 May 23 Current BOM
@cc2Arider / Craig - that's awesome! last couple of weeks waiting were the hardest.
I finished inventory and overall think it was well organized - or at least better than I expected.
Had a moment of panic when I could not find a box - but just lost in the constant shuffle trying to make space in the garage. I want to be the vendor for FFR packing paper account - they don't skimp.
As I got into the later boxes, there were some that I just looked at and took it on faith that "the big of stuff" was complete, or if missing something it would be trivial to acquire locally. Seems like the bag of little parts in the gas tank box was one of these where I made sure the major components were there, but gave up making sure every small hoseclamp or whatever was in the bag.
Carpet box was another one where I ended up just counting "says I should have N pcs of carpet, and there are N in the box, but heck if I know which is which at the moment"
Trunk, hood, quickjack body bolts. came off last night. Doors next - want to be able to hang the body from the garage ceiling this coming weekend so I can really take advantage of upcoming long weekend at labor day.
I would like to think I've made progress - front suspension is mounted, working on front brakes next - time to learn the safety wiring needed for Wilwoods.
I spent the past year making sure my tool kit was ready, but its ... not. I order something new every few days.
1-1/8 Socket for front hub nut ... my existing kit stopped at 1"
Big-*** torque wrench for same ... the 3/8 one I had for motorcycle work stopped at 150 FT LB
small-*** torque wrench for brake hat bolts - I probably could have made due but because of IN-LB and scared of stripping any one of the 48 bolts, I ordered a small one.
12 pt 1/4 sockets - again, for brake hat bolts. Only needed the 5/32" I think but buying 1 is about 1/3 the price of the full set.
It's all good though - I'm very much a tool collector.
For the weekend, start in on more sheetmetal and also the rear suspension.
I've been at it a couple of weeks now, and realizing I over estimated how much free time I really have during a week, so adjusting my time horizon to 1.5 - 2 years unless I find a way to invest more time. That said, I think I've maintained steady progress overall.
Some sheet metal - frame drilling underway
Front suspension more-or-less in
Front Wilwoods more-or-less installed
IRS Center section hung
Learnings so far
Stock front spindle hub nuts aren't the best. I mucked one up (if it does not want to spin on without excessive force, don't force it) and got a AutoZone replacement that went on like butter compared to the stock ones. The AutoZone one uses a different self-locking style - the crimped ovalized locking like many of the other nuts in suspension kit. The stock one had some red locking compound of some sort in half the threads and just is not comparable.
Wilwood fronts - the hex head bolts that attach the rotor mounting bracket to front knuckle are the wrong tool for the job. Replaced those with socket head cap screws as it's impossible to get a socket on one of the pair due to location.
Find your local speciality fastener store - for me, it is U-Neac Fasteners in Sacramento. Those guys have everything under the sun and will sell me just one if thats how many I want. I have already replaced a handful of locknuts that I put on, then pulled off to rework something.
Garage shoes are a good idea with all the little metal shavings from drilling.
I love my frame dolly - the frame sits up high and I can spin it all around in the garage to make life easier.
IRS center section - I have about 1/8" gap between the front set of ears and the poly bushings in the frame. I'll have to get some washers / shims and rework this area (another trip to U-Neac for replacement lock nuts). IMG_4626.jpg
From now on I am going to try to rough fit parts a little better to check for gaps / clearances / whatever before torquing down - or even getting the locknuts tight enough to engage the locking.
Did you decide to powder coat your Al panels, or were you going to leave them unfinished?
I plan on powder coating everything right now. That is probably overkill but it makes my head hurt trying to figure out which ones may not really be necessary or be hidden, so I’ll just do them all - that way I can’t miss one that should have been done.
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Originally Posted by cc2Arider
