Papa's MKIV Roadster Build - #9115 (Post Grad) - One million + views!!!

[Papa]

Dave-

A big YES to the stacked injection. They just have that classic look in these cars, and make the engine bay look amazing.

I look forward to some pics as you get it all sorted. Your car is beautiful and deserves this upgrade! Good luck with it.

Regards,

Steve

Steve,

I definitely love the look, but it may be a bridge too far at this point in time. I'd just like to understand if there is a path to get there without major surgery on the engine.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

I had a car with Borla stacks here for body & paint last year. When it arrived it wouldn't run to get out of the trailer so the owner turned around and hauled it the few hundred miles back home. A month later he brought it back...again. This time it started and drove into the shop. I had the body ready to lift off and---it wouldn't run and had to be pushed around. After I got the body off for paint the owner made the several hour trek back to me...again..., picked up the non-running go cart and hauled it back home. When I was done he he had the go cart running and brought it back to me...again. I reassembled the car, he came back...again...and I held my breath and crossed my fingers when he started it up and drove it into the trailer. I'm pretty sure that with all of the back and forth trips to me the trailer still has more miles on it than the car does but it sure does look pretty when parked with the hood open! The ordeal he went through made some fouled spark plugs seem like a walk in the park Be careful what you wish for and proceed with caution my friend!

Jeff

[Papa]

I had a car with Borla stacks here for body & paint last year. When it arrived it wouldn't run to get out of the trailer so the owner turned around and hauled it the few hundred miles back home. A month later he brought it back...again. This time it started and drove into the shop. I had the body ready to lift off and---it wouldn't run and had to be pushed around. After I got the body off for paint the owner made the several hour trek back to me...again..., picked up the non-running go cart and hauled it back home. When I was done he he had the go cart running and brought it back to me...again. I reassembled the car, he came back...again...and I held my breath and crossed my fingers when he started it up and drove it into the trailer. I'm pretty sure that with all of the back and forth trips to me the trailer still has more miles on it than the car does but it sure does look pretty when parked with the hood open! The ordeal he went through made some fouled spark plugs seem like a walk in the park Be careful what you wish for and proceed with caution my friend!

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. I've heard similar stories and then hear that it's all about the proper setup and tuning. I have a neighbor with a Rousch 427 with stacks in a Backdraft that runs perfectly. Another option if the setup I have just doesn't want to cooperate is to go with a Holly Terminator. Another neighbor has two cars with that setup and he swears by that setup. We'll see what the guy I'm taking it to tomorrow recommends and go from there. It's going to be 74 degrees tomorrow here in the Denver area. Crazy that we haven't had any snow yet this late in the year. The temps are supposed to drop by 30-40 degrees later this week, though.

Dave

[Christopher]

Dave,

Just wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for not only building a beautiful car, but sharing and showing in detail with this build thread. You have put a great deal of time and effort into each of these. I receive my kit in April and with the help of your thread and a few others, I should be able to hit the ground running. BTW......we were once close neighbors apparently. I believe you use to live in Lodi, CA. I live in Linden, CA. Just few minutes from your old stomping grounds.

[Papa]

Dave,

Just wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for not only building a beautiful car, but sharing and showing in detail with this build thread. You have put a great deal of time and effort into each of these. I receive my kit in April and with the help of your thread and a few others, I should be able to hit the ground running. BTW......we were once close neighbors apparently. I believe you use to live in Lodi, CA. I live in Linden, CA. Just few minutes from your old stomping grounds.

Yep -- Stuck in Lodi until I joined the Army. I had family in Linden for a while, too.

Dave

[Papa]

After a week with the tuner, the recommendation is to replace the intake and Sniper with a Holley Multi-Port setup. Based on the availability of parts, it could be a few weeks (or more) before the swap is done. He described some of the limitations of the Sniper that would not allow him to get me 100% to what I was hoping to get. He could make it better, but not what he considered 100% right. When I asked about the stack injection, he said he's done a lot of them, but he felt that for my goals, the benefits would not really be worth the expense unless the main objective was the look.

[Geoff H]

I will be following this with interest. Do you know which Holley M-P set up you will go with?

Thanks,
Geoff

[Papa]

I will be following this with interest. Do you know which Holley M-P set up you will go with?

Thanks,
Geoff

Not yet -- I hope to hear something from the tuner on options next week.

Dave

[GoDadGo]

Hey Dave,

I really see why your geographic location puts you in a tuning pickle.
The temperature swings that go along with your area have got to make things very difficult.
Heck, the height elevation changes alone have got be tough on any OE system much less a custom setup.
I hope you find an acceptable solution before the weather makes it impossible to test and tune it.
Since I live in the Goldilox Zone, a simple carb works fine for me.

Good Luck With Your Quest & Have A Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

[Papa]

Hey Dave,

I really see why your geographic location puts you in a tuning pickle.
The temperature swings that go along with your area have got to make things very difficult.
Heck, the height elevation changes alone have got be tough on any OE system much less a custom setup.
I hope you find an acceptable solution before the weather makes it impossible to test and tune it.
Since I live in the Goldilox Zone, a simple carb works fine for me.

Good Luck With Your Quest & Have A Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

Yep, but it can be done. The Sniper has been okay, but not perfect. Like I said, it could be tuned to work better, but there are a few things that it would need to get it to 100% that it simply won't allow, so I'm looking at options. Last week, we went from a high of 70 to a high of 30 from one day to the next.

[Papa]

I'm still waiting to hear what the tuner has in mind for my car, but thought I'd share an interesting perspective with this group. When I spoke with the tuner after he'd evaluated my car, he asked If I had done the work on the car. I told him I had built the car and he was very complimentary of the finished product. He said he usually won't even work on Factory Five cars because most have been a real mess under the hood. He asked what my background was and was very surprised to hear that I had no real mechanical experience before taking on the build. I attributed my success to the wonderful support I received from this forum over the years. Thanks again to everyone that supported me and others in this journey! It's this community that really makes these cars special.

[Jeff Kleiner]

His compliments are well deserved Dave! As I’ve said before, I get to see these cars with their clothes off…some look good, others not so much Yours is one of the good ones! You did a great job

Jeff

[Geoff H]

I'm still waiting to hear what the tuner has in mind for my car, but thought I'd share an interesting perspective with this group. When I spoke with the tuner after he'd evaluated my car, he asked If I had done the work on the car. I told him I had built the car and he was very complimentary of the finished product. He said he usually won't even work on Factory Five cars because most have been a real mess under the hood. He asked what my background was and was very surprised to hear that I had no real mechanical experience before taking on the build. I attributed my success to the wonderful support I received from this forum over the years. Thanks again to everyone that supported me and others in this journey! It's this community that really makes these cars special.

What a great compliment - after seeing your build thread I can see why!

[Papa]

The bleeding has begun! I started buying parts for the EFI upgrade and here is what I've ordered so far:

Pro-M Pump Hanger
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump (my existing pump started making a lot of noise and I figured I'd just replace it while I have everything apart)
Stainless steel tubing (3/8")
Ham-Let hard line to AN fittings from Breeze
Lodestar clamps
PTFE lined braided 6AN hose and various fittings for the tank-to-hardline and hardline-to engine

I'm still looking at options for the MPFI setup and will update as I get closer to a decision.

To help me figure out the number of fittings, I used a diagram that identifies all the sections and fitting types I will need:

[Papa]

After some back and forth with a very helpful guy on the Holley forums and some additional data logging, he thinks my issue may actually be the slip-on collector on my headers pulling air in and creating a false lean condition on the O2 sensor. So, I'm going to address that concern first. I have a set of FFR headers ordered (I wanted to try them anyway) and will see what happens after installing them. Jeff - I know there will need to be some cosmetic work done and I have a plan for that!

I'll keep you all posted.

[Papa]

My new headers arrived yesterday from Factory Five. When I saw the box, I was thinking that they must have sent the wrong parts! Another advantage to the new ball swivel design ... compact for shipping! I also got a set of Remflex gaskets. I'm off for the rest of the year after this Friday, so I hope to get them on the car before Christmas.

[John Ibele]

So ... you're going to give the Sniper another try with the new headers in place? I don't anticipate I'll have the same challenge you've had here in the relative flats of Minnesota, but I was tracking the Sniper discussion with interest since that's what's sitting on the top of my engine now. Regardless, good luck driving toward a fully satisfying solution!

[Papa]

So ... you're going to give the Sniper another try with the new headers in place? I don't anticipate I'll have the same challenge you've had here in the relative flats of Minnesota, but I was tracking the Sniper discussion with interest since that's what's sitting on the top of my engine now. Regardless, good luck driving toward a fully satisfying solution!

Yep. A review of the data log I provided the guy from the Holley forum seems to show false lean readings that he believes are from air getting pulled in around the slip joints on the headers. I should see an immediate difference with the new headers if this is the case. If I don't see any change, I'll continue to press on with a different EFI. The fact that the car was running pretty well and has gradually degraded in spite of me reloading my "good" tune is another clue that points to a potential leak as the headers continue to loosen at the slip joint and get worse over time.

[bobl]

I recently chased an issue with getting lean spikes on my Holley system. Long story short, it turned out to be a distributor problem causing intermittent trigger failures to the ecu. I have a DUI (Davis) tfi distributor. The hall effect pickup is made of plastic and slips over the shaft and held in place with a pin. The fit had gotten real sloppy and it was moving all over the place. I made up some shims and reassembled it using some epoxy to make sure it stayed secure and it works like a charm The car runs better than it ever has. So, be aware that misfires can show up as lean spikes. Which also leads me to another point that EFI is blamed for a lot of problems which are actually caused by some other component, or tuning itself. Like all computers: Garbage in = garbage out.

[BRRT]

Hey Dave,
What headers are you taking off? Are they visibly damaged?

Jeff

[Papa]

Hey Dave,
What headers are you taking off? Are they visibly damaged?

Jeff

They are from GP Headers. I'm not sure there is any issue with them at this point, but want to rule out the possibility of a leak at the slip connection of the collector.

[Papa]

Today I put the car up on the lift and removed the side pipes and headers. I installed the new FFR headers (uncoated). While I was at it, I swapped the spark plugs -- car has definitely been running rich, but that wasn't a surprise. While I was under the car, I saw more coolant (easy now that I swapped to DexCool. This time, the coolant was all over the fan and bottom of the shroud. I started looking for loose clamps - all tight, then looked in through the grill opening and found the issue. Both top mounting points on the radiator have failed with the driver's side forming a crack on the radiator.



I'm going to try to find a local repair shop or may try to epoxy it. Either way, repair or replacement, will get the Breeze top mount hinge or make my own. I'm trying to stay positive, but with all the issues hitting me at once, it is really hard to get excited about the car right now. On a more positive note, I really like the new headers and for the first time since the car was finished, my driver's side pipe is where is should be and not drooping. Now I just need to tweak the passenger side a bit by relocating the hanger a bit more inboard.

[cv2065]

I've got the same pump hanger. A real work of art!

[txboiler]

Papa I really like the detail in your build thread and the advice you give in other posts. I am working on the wiring now and was reviewing the following post. I have the BPE 347 with sniper and complete kit. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...fuel+pump+wire

In post 6, in the above link, you were giving guidance on how you connected the blue wire from the sniper to the + fuel pump, by depinning the RF wire at the rear harness connection. I am curious how you wired in your inertia switch and had that work (I noticed the inertia switch in photos on this build thread and assumed you had it connected). Post 9 in that same thread gives me the impression that the inertia switch will still work but the fuel pump with be work through both the RF and Sniper relay and the install instructions caution against that.

What am I missing? Thanks in advance

thanks.

[Papa]

Papa I really like the detail in your build thread and the advice you give in other posts. I am working on the wiring now and was reviewing the following post. I have the BPE 347 with sniper and complete kit. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...fuel+pump+wire

In post 6, in the above link, you were giving guidance on how you connected the blue wire from the sniper to the + fuel pump, by depinning the RF wire at the rear harness connection. I am curious how you wired in your inertia switch and had that work (I noticed the inertia switch in photos on this build thread and assumed you had it connected). Post 9 in that same thread gives me the impression that the inertia switch will still work but the fuel pump with be work through both the RF and Sniper relay and the install instructions caution against that.

What am I missing? Thanks in advance

thanks.

I'm glad you find my thread helpful. Great observation on the wiring. During my build, I had two different EFI setups on the car. The first was a FAST XFI Street setup. That setup was wired using the relay in the fuse block since the fuel pump control was a ground signal. I simply wired direct to the inertia switch to control the pump. When I swapped to the Sniper, it uses a +12v fuel pump signal from its own relay. By wiring direct to the positive side of the fuel pump, I'm bypassing the fuse block relay and the inertia switch. You need to rewire the inertia switch into the fuel pump circuit.

[txboiler]

I think I am following you; but let me make sure I have this correct. Using the +12v blue wire from the sniper I would wire the inertia switch in series. From the inertia switch I would de-pin RF wire going to the rear harness fuel pump and replace it with the blue wire coming from the inertia switch.

One question (assuming I have that correct) is I noticed the gage of the wire in the inertia switch is much smaller that the blue wire. Should I replace those wires as well?

Thanks again

[Papa]

I think I am following you; but let me make sure I have this correct. Using the +12v blue wire from the sniper I would wire the inertia switch in series. From the inertia switch I would de-pin RF wire going to the rear harness fuel pump and replace it with the blue wire coming from the inertia switch.

One question (assuming I have that correct) is I noticed the gage of the wire in the inertia switch is much smaller that the blue wire. Should I replace those wires as well?

Thanks again

I didn't wire the inertia switch in series with the + side, but others have. It's better to wire the inertia switch on the ground side of the circuit.

[txboiler]

Thanks.

[Papa]

Merry Christmas to my Factory Five family! A little update on where I am on the car. The new headers are on. I can't really say if they made any difference since I also changed the spark plugs during the install. The car is definitely better, but that could really be a result of new plugs. I can't get the car out and drive it until I repair/replace the radiator. I have some stuff coming from Breeze as well as a radiator from FFR on order. I should be getting my USB CAN BUS dongle from Holley today and I will work with the guy from the Holley forum once I can drive the car again. He'll be doing some remote tuning and then sending me out to drive the car and get data logs, but he's confident he can get it dialed in with a few rounds of this. If not, the MPFI option is still on the table.

For now ...

[GTBradley]

Merry Christmas, Dave. Sorry to hear about the troubles. I have to say though, I do remember riding behind you and a bunch of other cobras and thinking, somebody is running way rich!

I would suggest getting the breeze lower mount too if you don’t already have it because that is what supports my radiator the most.

[Papa]

I do have the lower mount already. It's likely the only reason my radiator is still in the car. I have the top mount on the way and should have the new radiator in a couple of weeks. Thank goodness for the lift! It should make it easier to swap out the parts once everything gets here.

[GTBradley]

…It's likely the only reason my radiator is still in the car.

How hard you been driving that roadster?

[Papa]

Not anywhere near as hard as you! I did have this rather rough stretch though....

[GTBradley]

Washboard, ugh! I had a half hour of that recently. It shook open one of my hood latches.

[Papa]

I got my stuff from Breeze today and got confirmation that my radiator order is complete and just waiting to ship. I also got my cable from Holley, so I'll be ready to tackle the tuning as soon as I get the radiator done. I also have almost everything I need to redo the fuel pump and lines, but one thing at a time.

[Papa]

The new radiator shipped and will be here next week. Today, I did some tweaking on my side pipes with the help of some Breeze spacers. For the first time since my car has been on the road, both the driver and passenger side pipes are level and parallel with the body! With everything snugged up good and tight, I did a quick roll around the block and I'm pretty sure that the car is running far better than it ever has to date as far as the decel popping goes. I think the new headers were the right place to start. Now I just need to solve the coolant leak and get this thing tuned by a pro.





The proper side pipe fit has exposed an issue resulting from the poor fit I had prior and Jeff's modification to the driver's side opening to accommodate the header to pipe flange. What I'm working on is a pair of stainless steel trim pieces that will fit over the opening and cover about 1-1/2" of the body around the opening. Once I have something worth showing, I'll be sure to post some pictures. I'm imagining something along these lines:

[PN in KC]

Really blown away by this thread. I've ordered my kit and have to wait 8 months! But, using the time read and research every thing I can and this thread is inspiring and something I know I will return to once I actually get my hands on my kit. Thanks for the details, honesty and amazing quality of pictures. Good luck on the continued additions/tweaks/etc.!

[Papa]

Really blown away by this thread. I've ordered my kit and have to wait 8 months! But, using the time read and research every thing I can and this thread is inspiring and something I know I will return to once I actually get my hands on my kit. Thanks for the details, honesty and amazing quality of pictures. Good luck on the continued additions/tweaks/etc.!

You're most welcome and have fun with your build.

[GoDadGo]

Mark Reynolds makes some good stuff.
I had to use his spacers to correct my pipe angles too.
Like you Papa Dave, the O.C.D. Gene is strong over here on the Dark Side!

Well Done & Those Side Pipe Covers Look Great!

[Papa]

Mark Reynolds makes some good stuff.
I had to use his spacers to correct my pipe angles too.
Like you Papa Dave, the O.C.D. Gene is strong over here on the Dark Side!

Well Done & Those Side Pipe Covers Look Great!

The new FFR headers are awesome for getting things adjusted, but I still required 1/2" of spacers (not wedges) to get the passenger side to be right with my Gas-N pipes. There are so many variables with the body position on these cars that simply can't be accounted for with headers. Half an inch at the flange equated to over two inches at the end of the pipe.