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Thread: Papa's MKIV Roadster Build - #9115 (First go-cart!)

  1. #281
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Papa,

    You'll start to really enjoy your runs to the auto parts store.
    Do what I explain that your car is a custom race car that will be street legal and then wait for the stupidity to begin.
    When they ask you the stupid questions, answer with precise accuracy by giving them the Make, Model, Year, Engine, Transmission, Etc, Etc, Etc.
    Let the tap on their keyboards and look at their screens, then tap some more until they get frustrated.
    It Gets Better After 10-15 Minutes, Then They Usually Finally Understand & Really Try To Start Listening To You!

    Steve

  2. #282
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    haha, I just had my first episode with the auto parts store with my car. I asked for 1/2-20 open lug nuts. I assumed they'd just have a big bucket of them for me to dip into. But no, they had to know what car it's for. I just sighed and said "it's basically an 1987 to 2006 mustang". The guy struggled a bit and looked at me weird, but he entered something. My family was out waiting in the car so I didn't want to drag it along more than necessary.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  3. #283
    Senior Member
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    While they're called "Parts Guys" they are really "Part Number Guys". Often their knowledge of parts is limited.
    Jim

  4. #284
    Ughhh! A couple of weeks ago I was cleaning up the wiring harness attachments and while unplugging my fuel sender, I snapped the retaining clip off. Okay, it happens. I found a replacement on RockAuto.com and after it arrived, I cut the broken one off and attached the replacement. I used heat shrink tubing and taped up the new plug; good as new! When I pushed the new plug on, the clip broke off; same as the last one! One more $18.00 order and I'll try again; maybe warming the plug with the heat gun a little before pressing it on.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  5. #285
    Third time was the charm! I finally got a fuel sender plug installed without snapping off the retaining clip. I didn't get much else done today as CINC HOUSE exerted her will and I spent most of the day helping her with other tasks.

    I did have a few minutes to start looking at the EFI wiring. The power and ground wires for the EFI are too short to reach the battery directly. Has anyone experienced any issues using distribution blocks for stuff like this?

    Next I looked at the fuel relay and control harness and it looks like I'll need to get some technical support from FAST or BluePrint. When I was checking the RF harness, I was able to verify the RF relay was working and I could power up my fuel pump. The FAST EFI setup came with a separate relay, but the weather pac plugs on the relay harness don't match up with the main EFI harness.



    I'm wondering if I need to use the FAST relay or if the EFI computer really wants/needs to control the fuel pump. Isn't it pretty much just on when the key is in the on and crank positions?

    And finally, the sending units for the water temp and oil pressure senders have plugs on them that are the same as the ones on the dash harness I already connected. The RF sending unit harness was what I was planning to use, so I assume I just need to cut the plugs off and wire the sensors to the sending unit harness.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  6. #286
    A bit more progress today. I installed the oil pressure sender with the extension recommended. I also connected up the wires from the oil pressure and water temp senders to the sending unit harness. I folded over the two wires for the oil temp and encased in heat shrink tubing. I'm not using an oil temp gauge, but may someday want to do so and this way the wires are handy. I ran a tachometer wire from my coil back to the firewall inside the sender harness and will tie it in with the tachometer/coil wire in the RF EFI harness.

    If I'm not running backup lights, can I just tie up the harness on the tail of the transmission, or should I remove it?

    I sent an e-mail to BluePrint about my question on the wire harness plugs for the fuel pump relay that came with the EFI setup. I also want to be sure that if I use that relay, I need to cut the loop on the RF fuel pump relay (tan wire).

    Any advice on integrating the FAST EFI into the RF harness would be appreciated.





    Last edited by Papa; 11-12-2017 at 07:11 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  7. #287
    Papa, when you installed your wiper motor, did you you reinforce the fire wall where you mounted it?

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by chmhasy View Post
    Papa, when you installed your wiper motor, did you you reinforce the fire wall where you mounted it?
    I didn't. My firewall is insulated with Thermotech mat and with the large bolts and flat washers it feels really solid.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    I didn't. My firewall is insulated with Thermotech mat and with the large bolts and flat washers it feels really solid.
    thanks

  10. #290
    Nice work. You are moving along quite fast. I am watching some of your mods. I love the firewall Insulation. It is something you would find on a factory built car. I used a skinnier sensor so I didnt have to utilize that long tube from Ford.


    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Nice work. You are moving along quite fast. I am watching some of your mods. I love the firewall Insulation. It is something you would find on a factory built car. I used a skinnier sensor so I didnt have to utilize that long tube from Ford.


    Thanks! I was looking at different oil pressure senders and didn't find anything obvious that was compatible with the FFR (Speedhut) Vintage gauges. With the one wire sender, I assume ground is provided via the engine block?
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  12. #292
    That is correct. When i buy gauges, I will either get a compatible gauge or will build a small circuit to convert the resistance in ohms. It sounds like it may cause a bit more work but I love building circuit boards. This might be a fun little exercise in electronics theory.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    That is correct. When i buy gauges, I will either get a compatible gauge or will build a small circuit to convert the resistance in ohms. It sounds like it may cause a bit more work but I love building circuit boards. This might be a fun little exercise in electronics theory.
    Or, you could get one that is already built.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sender-conv...-/262975817155
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  14. #294
    Nice but I was thinking a basic voltage divider or matching the meter to the sensor using an OP amp. It would be nice to use a chip for a bank of sensors. Etc. You doing any electrical engineering or circuit design for your car.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Nice but I was thinking a basic voltage divider or matching the meter to the sensor using an OP amp. It would be nice to use a chip for a bank of sensors. Etc. You doing any electrical engineering or circuit design for your car.
    I haven't done any circuit design since college. Most of my work has been in the communications and RF spectrum area. I have done some work integrating MMICs, ASICs, and FPGAs in the same field for high-end digital receivers, but not actually building any of the devices. I'm currently working on the next-generation GPS ground command and control system as a system integrator and system engineer.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    I haven't done any circuit design since college. Most of my work has been in the communications and RF spectrum area. I have done some work integrating MMICs, ASICs, and FPGAs in the same field for high-end digital receivers, but not actually building any of the devices. I'm currently working on the next-generation GPS ground command and control system as a system integrator and system engineer.
    I have been reading about that. I have a Bachelors in Aeronautical Science and many of my undergrad classes were mostly computer science. I have always loved building circuits and anything I cant get my hands on to pass the time when I was a teenager. Now in my late 30's I feel like the paradigm is about to shift after I finish my time in the Air Force. I really want to get into aerospace, R&D, Applied Sciences, or something along the lines of engineering. I dont have an EE or a ME but I would still like to use my MBA towards a company that will allow me to manage projects in the STEM fields.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  17. #297
    Not a lot to talk about on my build this weekend. I'm concerned that I may have done some electrical damage while trying to test various circuits using a Power Probe II. I was trouble shooting my wiper circuit and was able to directly power the motor with the probe, but couldn't get it to operate via the switch. While fiddling around with the probe, I think I managed to fry my wiper motor and my gauges light up, but the needles are all off the bottom of the sweep pointing due east on the dial except for the reverse sweep speedo, which is at around 15 mph.

    Put the probe down! I am going to need some serious help getting the electrical sorted out, so I hope Doc is up to the task.

    On to something else while I try to get over my mistake. I decided to tear my seats apart and install the CobraHeat WarmSeats. I have the leather roadster seats and the installation was way easier than I expected. The only tools I needed were a razor, some spray adhesive, my hands, and a little patience.

    I removed the bottom cover completely, but the back I only needed to undo the plastic clips to allow me to slide the heater pad between the cushion and the cover.







    Next I used a bit of adhesive to get the pad stuck to the front of the bottom cushion.



    I then made a slit in the foam to embed the wiring.



    I reinstalled the cover and used spray adhesive to re-attach the cover to the cushion and reassembled the seat with the wires accessible under the seat.



    I'm now thinking of how to route the wires so they don't get pinched when mounting the seat. I'm not sure how I'll do that yet, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    That's it for today.
    Last edited by Papa; 11-19-2017 at 09:18 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  18. #298
    Nice work today. Good luck with the electrical. Hope you didn't damage anything.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  19. #299
    Another week and too many things going on to work on my build. I have just a few more days of work and then I'll be off until next year. With the help of BB767 and others, I think I should be able to get the EFI wired up and ready for first start. I've also received direct communication with BluePrint thanks to Yama-Bro's help. I'll be trying to get the cooling system in place next and once I complete the wiring, clutch and throttle cable install, and get my headers and pipes from GAS-N, I should be ready for first start.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  20. #300
    #9160 BB767's Avatar
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    Hey Papa, could you send me information on where to purchase that oil pressure extension please? Thanks.
    MK4 - complete kit - Blueprint 427W - FAST XFI Street - TKO 600 .64 - 3.55 3 link - 17" Halibrands

  21. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by BB767 View Post
    Hey Papa, could you send me information on where to purchase that oil pressure extension please? Thanks.
    This is the one I bought:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-c2oz-9b339-c
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  22. #302
    #9160 BB767's Avatar
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    Thank you, it's in the mail.
    MK4 - complete kit - Blueprint 427W - FAST XFI Street - TKO 600 .64 - 3.55 3 link - 17" Halibrands

  23. #303
    Some good news today. I confirmed my wiper motor isn't fried and I was able to directly power my gauges and they are working! The problem appears to be that I'm not getting power at the gauge feed wire (brown wire in the dash harness). With a volt meter attached, I get a brief power reading when the ignition is switched to the on/run position, but then right back to 0 volts. I received a new ignition switch from FFR and will replace the one in the car when I get a chance. I'm just relieved that it doesn't appear that I fried anything.

    I'm also going to post my questions in the main forum to get a bit more visibility.
    Last edited by Papa; 12-10-2017 at 05:18 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  24. #304
    One work day left this year and I'll be able to spend some serious time in the shop! I got a call from Georgie at GAS-N today and my headers are shipping out this week! I am 99% sure I will be able to complete all my EFI electrical connections thanks to a lot of very patient people from this forum, FFR, and BluePrint. I need to get the power steering lines on, clutch cable connected, throttle cable connected, cooling system installed, headers installed, and then a thorough review of my pre-start checklist and I hope to have a first start video to post before the end of the year!
    Last edited by Papa; 12-15-2017 at 10:09 AM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  25. #305
    I'll be in the springs back forest area in about 10 days if you want to meet up.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  26. #306
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    I'm anxiously awaiting your first start. Can I ask...Are we there yet?
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  27. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I'll be in the springs back forest area in about 10 days if you want to meet up.
    I sent you a PM. Give me a shout when you're in the area.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  28. #308
    I finally got to spend time in the shop and made some great progress today.

    1. I installed the power steering hoses.



    2. I installed the clutch cable.



    Is it normal to have the clutch pedal so far forward of the brake pedal? If not, how do I adjust it?



    3. I installed the throttle cable.



    The first thing I did was press the accelerator pedal to check full range and the cable popped out of the crappy ball and stud mount on the pedal. After getting it all back together and adding a second set screw (don't say it Steve ), I ordered a complete Lokar throttle cable assembly. It should solve the cable coming off issue.

    4. I installed the radiator; complete with Breeze shroud and lower support.





    All in all a good day!
    Last edited by Papa; 12-19-2017 at 12:12 AM.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  29. #309
    I'm jealous!! Its looking good!!

  30. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by HiggyMK4#???? View Post
    I'm jealous!! Its looking good!!
    Thanks! I am hopeful that I'll achieve first start before the end of the year. Have you decided on any build details yet?

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  31. #311
    I am using the stock cable but routed mine through the front of the engine so as not to have heavy bends and "S" turns. Mine has a nice big loop and a lower mount for the cable using the fitech.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  32. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    I am using the stock cable but routed mine through the front of the engine so as not to have heavy bends and "S" turns. Mine has a nice big loop and a lower mount for the cable using the fitech.
    Do you have a picture of your install?
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  33. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Thanks! I am hopeful that I'll achieve first start before the end of the year. Have you decided on any build details yet?

    Dave
    I'm Canadian so there's a few hoops to jump through but it will be a complete kit by the time I'm done ordering parts. Small block powered, old school race car looking. 15" wheels with the higher profile tires, one roll bar, 5 speed. The usual stuff!!
    Higgy

  34. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Do you have a picture of your install?
    Some people are switching to the linkages from the vendors and they are probably the best route but I dont have a big budget so I am utilizing as much of the stock ffr stuff as possible.

    The sucess to the cable is to either go with a heavy duty lokar unit or go with the stock ffr cable. The trick to the ffr cable is to not bend it much. If you use it in a large loop it doesnt require anything more than a smoothe bend to the throttle. The caveat is that your throttle has to have the ability to pull from the front rather than the rear. I used a plastic bushing to adapt the ffr cable and set screw adapter to the throttle. I also used a bracket from the clutch cable to adapt for use on top the manifold. There is still some work to do and this is just a trial run but pulling from the front keeps the cable engagement very smooth. There is less friction in the cable when its conigured this way. With the "S" bends it adds friction and reduces throttle reaction or you have to add additional springs to make up for the slowed movement.

    Here is what i came up with. Its still a work in progress. But it is working the way it is now.

    2017-12-18_04-56-46 by Brandon Fertig, on Flickr
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  35. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    Some people are switching to the linkages from the vendors and they are probably the best route but I dont have a big budget so I am utilizing as much of the stock ffr stuff as possible.

    The sucess to the cable is to either go with a heavy duty lokar unit or go with the stock ffr cable. The trick to the ffr cable is to not bend it much. If you use it in a large loop it doesnt require anything more than a smoothe bend to the throttle. The caveat is that your throttle has to have the ability to pull from the front rather than the rear. I used a plastic bushing to adapt the ffr cable and set screw adapter to the throttle. I also used a bracket from the clutch cable to adapt for use on top the manifold. There is still some work to do and this is just a trial run but pulling from the front keeps the cable engagement very smooth. There is less friction in the cable when its conigured this way. With the "S" bends it adds friction and reduces throttle reaction or you have to add additional springs to make up for the slowed movement.

    Here is what i came up with. Its still a work in progress. But it is working the way it is now.
    That should work fine. My concern was more about the cable coming loose at the pedal. The FAST EFI came with a complete set of brackets for just about every type of factory setup out there. Once I get the new cable installed I should be just fine.

    Dave
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  36. #316
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Gents,

    From the Alternate Universe, you can mount the throttle body backwards and Holley style carbs too.
    427's had the Holley carburetors mounted in this fashion for their dual carb setups.
    This will give you an easy U-Bend in the throttle cable as opposed to the S-Bend.

    Steve

    Edelbrock carbs SHOULD be oriented in the old fashion manner.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-18-2017 at 07:34 PM.

  37. #317
    my regulator is built into the fitech. I can reverse mount it but then my fuel lines would come off the front of the motor in at least one of the positions since the return is set to this one outlet. The way the fitech is designed it has the extra hole for the linkage to pull from the location in the above picture. So it works either way on that left side. Its really a nice feature so there is no need to flip the entire assembly around. Sorry to clog up your thread PAPA.
    F5R9196 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air
    Real men don't use instructions, son. Besides, this is just the manufacturer's opinion on how to put this together.. ~Tim Allen
    Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, BS, UIW San Antonio, MS

  38. #318
    After looking at the radiator plumbing that came with the FFR complete kit I decided to go ahead and spring for a set of Boig Mototsports Cool Tubes. I ordered the upper with the integrated filler, which I think provides a nice, clean look. My timing was good as Bob is giving free shipping until the end of the month! I'm building quite a collection of parts for my post graduation "Parts for Sale" post.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

  39. #319
    Papa, where did you get that battery box? Does that come with the kit (I got the full one) or is this something you bought as an upgrade? I really like the look as opposed to the standard mounting I was going to do on top of the rear panel. Thanks.

  40. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by wisel1 View Post
    Papa, where did you get that battery box? Does that come with the kit (I got the full one) or is this something you bought as an upgrade? I really like the look as opposed to the standard mounting I was going to do on top of the rear panel. Thanks.
    The battery box is an upgrade from FF Metal.

    http://www.ffmetal.com/batteryboxpage.html
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

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