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Thread: Duff33 Build

  1. #1
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    Duff33 Build

    I took the plunge, have a rental truck reserved and pick up my 33 Hot Rod Kit in a couple of weeks, I am only about 20 minutes away from ff5. The garage is as ready as it ever will be, not a show place but will serve the purpose.. My original plan is full fender with the hard top using all the components supplied by ff5 and use a carbureted crate 302 no electronics with an automatic ( kind of old school). I had a professor in school tell me that you don't have to know everything, you just have to know where to look it up. Well I have read just about every build thread and trying to remember where I read something will be the challenge.
    After reading some of the issues of getting a hot rod on the road in Mass I am rethinking what the motor will be, I understand the process of getting a VIN number ( sounds like a pain but if you have everything it is doable) My issue is going to be the emissions test, not sure how a crate motor falls in that. So I am thinking of using the 350 Chevy motor from my 1985 pickup ( that I bough brand new way back when). This I think would only have to pass a visual test for the original equipment for that motor (smog pump), but then that interferes with the electric steering, motor mounts and drive shaft ( and probably more). More research to do and I figure by next spring I should be ready for a motor.
    I hope to be able to post with pictures as things come together.

  2. #2
    RoadRacer's Avatar
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    Welcome and good luck!!
    Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari

    FFR33 coupe #997, ordered 2/20/17, delivered 4/15/17, build thread
    Planned: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, GT500 wheels

  3. #3
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    Here's a link to info on Mass. registration. I know that some states are very particular about the origin of all parts on a car built by a non-manufacturer. You better be able to prove where all major parts came from.

    http://www.bipac.net/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_MA.pdf

    From what I read, you may want a FFR '33 to be classified as a custom vehicle, so it is exempt from emissions testing - see the last page. Although an old small block may be cheap, it will lack in power and fuel mileage, compared to something more modern. That's why I chose to buy a 430hp LS3 connect and cruise package for my hot rod. It's totally plug and play and gets 20 mpg in town and about 23 on the highway, driving 75-80 mph. A carbureted engine can't come close to that.

    Although the FFR '33 has similarities to a '33 Ford, it is really much different and should not be considered to be a replica of a '33 Ford. The body is wider, vertically shorter and side windows are not framed.

    There are many true replica bodies sold that are reasonably accurate replicas, but most feature a chopped top, that makes it an altered replica and certainly would qualify as a custom vehicle.
    Last edited by DaveS53; 08-03-2017 at 04:16 PM.

  4. #4
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    Dave
    You are right---if it can be registered as a "custom vehicle" ( A motor vehicle for which the model year of manufacture is after 1948, for which the model year is at least 25 years old and that has been altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed, in whole or in part, from non original materials) or as a "Street Rod" ( A motor vehicle for which the year of manufacture is prior to 1949, which has been altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed from non original materials) Then
    310 CMR 60.02 (3) (b) applies "The following motor vehicles are exempt from the emissions inspection" (14) "Any vehicle registered with the Registry as a street rod or custom vehicle pursuant to MGL c 90 2H" ( which are the definitions plus the label "street rod" or "custom vehicle" must be applied to the title and registration card)

  5. #5
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    Saturday we picked up the kit from factory 5, great guys to work with! IMG_7274.JPGGot everything into the garageIMG_7306.JPG and started the organization and inventory. I think ff5 must have a department that just wraps parts, because you can sure generate a lot of wrapping paper as you open and sort every part.20170814_144506.jpg. Not sure I am attaching pictures correctly, but I am learning. The build will start very soon.

  6. #6
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    Its been a good couple of days. I have been able to finish the inventory, only a few parts that are backordered, not bad at all. Assembled and installed the front suspension, the only issue I ran into is the castle nut for the upper ball joints. When I torqued the nut it runs up past the hole for the cotter pin, maybe should have has a spacer like the lower ball joint? I will contact tech and ask the question. 015.JPG. Next step will be assembling the front brakes and installing those.024.JPG

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff33 View Post
    Next step will be assembling the front brakes and installing those.024.JPG
    Are those the calipers that ship with the kit? I assumed they were plain silver/aluminum.

  8. #8
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    Yes they are the calipers that came with the kit. Red caliper paint, suppose to be good to 2000 degrees, we'll see.

  9. #9
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    It has been a good couple of days, have been able to build and install front brakes, everything went according to plan. Next was installing pedal box and the master cylinders, that also went well.008.JPG. Then the steering column, seems the brackets welded to the chassis do not match to width wise to the column. I searched through quite a few builds and see that it looks like everybody's is different, some look like the widths are right and others use shims, so I made some spacers so that the brake pedal is centered on the column bracket. If anybody sees that it would be an issue please let me know.

  10. #10

    Ol Skool

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    Quote Originally Posted by duff33 View Post
    It has been a good couple of days, have been able to build and install front brakes, everything went according to plan. Next was installing pedal box and the master cylinders, that also went well.008.JPG. Then the steering column, seems the brackets welded to the chassis do not match to width wise to the column. I searched through quite a few builds and see that it looks like everybody's is different, some look like the widths are right and others use shims, so I made some spacers so that the brake pedal is centered on the column bracket. If anybody sees that it would be an issue please let me know.
    Mine didn't match either and when I mounted seats the first time it felt off to the left. That became a whole separate endeavor. A couple shims are ok.

  11. #11
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    Well it has been a very hectic week and I have only been able to spend an hour or two during the days. I have been able to get some things accomplished and have learned a few things of what not to do. Example, I installed the brake master cylinders, when you tighten the fittings that have to point up, you ask yourself can I get one more turn, then the wrench slips002.JPG, so much for that fitting. Also learned that bending brake lines is not my favorite past time, but the front lines are in.DSCF1592.JPG. Also installed the steering assembly, that went much smootherDSCF1594.JPG. Today I was able to place the brake fluid reservoir's, I am going to have a reservoir for each master cylinder, recommended in a few of the build treads. I believe I have them positioned high enough to allow the brake fluid to flow into the cylinders.
    Next will be installing the rear end, the upper control arms had been back ordered and arrived yesterday. I hope that the stand I built for the chassis is going to be strong enough to support all the weight.

  12. #12
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    progress is grueling but rewarding, good job.

  13. #13
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    Rear End does not line up ???



    I am installing a rear end from moser, following the directions, installed lower arms, then shocks, but the drivers side upper arm just does not line up. I must be doing something wrong. The radius of the arm interferes with the rear end which will not allow the bolt to pass through because the holes just do not line up. I have switched arms drivers side vs passenger side, even with out the arm bolted to the chassis, it still has interference and will not allow the bolt the pass through ???????Click image for larger version. Name: 002.JPG Views: 0 Size: 354.9 KB ID: 72920Click image for larger version. Name: 012.JPG Views: 0 Size: 347.8 KB ID: 72921Click image for larger version. Name: 015.JPG Views: 0 Size: 325.5 KB ID: 72922

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    Hi 'Ya Mr. Duff.. I see Ted gave you a hand unloading. Thanks for the heads-up (that I could follow your build here). Looks like fun... yes, I'm jealous!!

  16. #16
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Duff,

    I have seen others suggest that you don't put the break line going down the outside frame that close to the fire wall. Apparently the body goes right behind the firewall on the sides and top and if you put the break line there it gets in the way.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
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    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

  17. #17
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    Thanks for the suggestion. The upper control arm did not fit even when it was not bolted to the chassis. I went to ff5 this morning and spoke with Dan, it turns out that if you are going to run a Moser rear with 4 link the upper control arms have to be modified. Moser is casting the rear ends now and have beefed up the ears over factory specs. That causes the interference. One side of the drivers side arm has to have the side radius made smaller and the web has to be relieved so that it does not rub on the top of the ear on the rear.Click image for larger version. Name: Rear End 2 004.JPG Views: 0 Size: 100.9 KB ID: 72961

  18. #18
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    Thanks TDSapp
    I was afraid of that, I will look at moving the break lines. I will get good at bending them.

  19. #19
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    Have not gotten a lot accomplish this week. Rear end is in and the rear brakes and lines are installed. Re rooted the front brake lines per TDSapp suggestion.Was going to start the wiring but decided its too early to have the wires draped all over the place. I have been powder coating as many brackets that will fit in my little toaster oven011.JPG, figure that is better than paint. At least half hour per piece so its rather time consuming. Next I think I will install the ff5 fuel tank and run the fuel lines. Going to have to make up my mind real soon as to what rims and tires will be going on, recommended are 20 inch for the rear but that would leave me with low profile tires, which to me just look wrong, maybe I am too old school.

  20. #20
    Senior Member kraftee's Avatar
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    Going to have to make up my mind real soon as to what rims and tires will be going on, recommended are 20 inch for the rear but that would leave me with low profile tires, which to me just look wrong, maybe I am too old school.
    I agree completely that the 20s and rubber band tires just look wrong on a hot rod. That's why I went with 15" wheels and tires - plus it gives a much softer ride! Only problem is that your choice of tire/wheel combos is a lot more limited. If you want big, wide radial 15" tires, take a look at Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R Radials.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "If everything seems to be coming your way, you're probably in the wrong lane."

  21. #21
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    kraftee Are you running full fenders?

  22. #22
    Senior Member kraftee's Avatar
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    No fenders at all (check my avatar.)
    "If everything seems to be coming your way, you're probably in the wrong lane."

  23. #23
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    Have been able to spend more time on the car this week. Been able to get the fuel tank installed and the fuel line run at least half way up the chassis010.JPG. Also mounted the radiator/fan to the grill and just had to put it on the frame to see how it looks001.JPG002.JPG.
    Progress is being made.

  24. #24
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    Was a lot of fun today. Thanks for letting me participate and catch up with you guys.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff33 View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion. The upper control arm did not fit even when it was not bolted to the chassis. I went to ff5 this morning and spoke with Dan, it turns out that if you are going to run a Moser rear with 4 link the upper control arms have to be modified. Moser is casting the rear ends now and have beefed up the ears over factory specs. That causes the interference. One side of the drivers side arm has to have the side radius made smaller and the web has to be relieved so that it does not rub on the top of the ear on the rear.Click image for larger version. Name: Rear End 2 004.JPG Views: 0 Size: 100.9 KB ID: 72961
    Duff,
    I had the same problem as you with the upper control arms with the 4-link, I couldn't get them to fit in the car, I even called Moser and told them that they had welded the ears on the rear at the wrong angle (9 in. Ford - Moser rear) eventually I discovered that the FFR control arms would not work when using the Moser rear, so I actually got 2 upper control arms from a mustang and they fit perfectly although they are not nearly as strong as FFR's; eventually I purchased the adjustable 4 link upper & lower arms from Dan Ruth and it fits perfect.

    Nevin
    Nevin, AKA H. R. Lucky
    33 Hot Rod sn 524 build started 3/18/2013, First Start-5/09/2015, Go Cart-6/01/2015
    5.0 Coyote engine, 9in. Ford rear, 4 Link, Wilwood 12in. front brakes
    AC, power steering, FFR 17/18in. Hot Rod wheels

  26. #26
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    Thanks for the info Nevin
    I was able to modify the Factory 5 upper control arms to fit the Moser rear end. Everything lined up properly and move freely.
    Duff

  27. #27
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    Hey 34_40 Thanks for coming by on Sunday, and thank you very much for letting me pull wheels off you Hot Rod and trying them on mine. It definitely points me in the direction I want to go with wheels and tires. And thanks for helping put the body on the chassis, the manual makes it look so easy, so maybe after 30 or 40 times it will be.001.JPG Of course we had to put a fender, running board and hood in place to see what I'm in for. After checking a couple of other forums I did remove the lower passenger side fire wall panel and cut the infamous 1/4 off and raise the passenger side the 1/4"006.JPG, after that the body dropped to where I believe it should be. Lot of measuring before I drill any holes to temporarily mount.

  28. #28
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    It was my pleasure! If you couldn't tell.. I was having a blast.
    It was a great day for a ride in the coupe too. Made the whole weekend worth living!

  29. #29
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    Any progress this weekend? I had to work Saturday and had honey-do's today... 8-(

  30. #30
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    I have been spending some time after you guys helped putting the body on. It was measure, level, measure, level, measure, level then finally bolted it to the firewall, door sills and to the frame in the trunk area as per the manual. Started the body work with fitting the hood, very slow process, sand a little try the fit, sand a little, you get the idea. Then I moved to the engine side covers, fit the rear of them but the fronts will need quite a bit ( about 3/4") cut off. I think the key to this will be having the grill square to everything, picking up different reference points seem to give different locations. I have them marked but have not cut yet, have to think about it for a few more days. One thing that should be in the manual is when you run your front brake lines they say mount the bracket that transitions the brake line to the flex hose under the upper control arm--- do that only if you are not going run side covers, otherwise the brake line is pointed directly at the back of the side cover. So will have to move the brake lines. Also started to fit the passenger door, they don't tell you the strange positions you have to get into to do that. Very time consuming !!!!!
    And the phrase, put it together, take it apart, put it to together, take it apart really applies !!
    Last edited by duff33; 09-19-2017 at 02:46 PM. Reason: added a phrase

  31. #31
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    Good to read the update. And happy to see you're making progress.
    And yes, put it together... to take it apart.... just to.. put it together.. to take it apart. Really does sum up the process nicely.

    I'm thinking (again) of re-doing parts of the coupe. So I guess it's true. They are never really finished!

  32. #32
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    It has been a couple of weeks since my last post. It has taken me that long to get the passenger door working the way it should. Quite the challenge. Not sure how but I installed the latch lower than the manual shows. Because of that I had to modify the plate that the striker attaches too by cutting a new slot for the striker lower on the plate, then I had to remove the built in washer and make a sleeve to move it out by about 3/8". It now opens and closes correctly, will draw out what the gap should be around the door and then remove the door (although I really don't what to do that) and do the final fit. But I have started the drivers door so I will finish that one and then do the final fit on both.

  33. #33
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    Dude, mine did the same thing and my doors are installed like they are supposed to be. I had to remedy it exactly as you did.
    '33 Hot Rod
    Ordered: 3/25/17. Delivered: 5/6/17. 1st start: 8/24/18

    MK4 Roadster
    Ordered: 7/10/13. Delivered: 8/20/13. Completed: 10/26/15.
    I did everything except spray it. She ain't perfect, but she's mine.

  34. #34
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    Sounds like your on the right track Mr. Duff. Seems others have had the same issue and used the same approach to get the parts in/on. Forward progress, it's all good!

  35. #35
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    It has been awhile since my last post, I have been busy at least a couple of hours a day and not a lot to show for it. The drivers door has been installed and this time everything seemed to line up the way its suppose too. Opens and closes correctly. Then I moved to getting the trunk lid sized correctly and that opens and closes ( no latch yet). Had to grind a little off the drivers side hinge to clear the angle on the fuel tank, other wise it did not go down as far as it should. Then I cut the nose piece under the grill, made a huge mistake and cut it about an inch too short, so I cut an inch off the piece that I originally cut and fiber glassed it back together. If I didn't tell anyone no one would know. The I cut the side panels to match the grill, that took awhile for fear of cutting those to short, sand a little bit and try it then a little more and try. After all those pieces I primed them taking advantage of the unusually warm weather we are having.
    Hopefully in the next few days I can get the hood trimmed to fit, then primed and Lizard skin all the aluminum floor pans.
    Has anyone used a wrap instead of paint?

  36. #36
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    Sounds like good progress.
    I can't say I've known anyone to wrap a car for long term use. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

  37. #37
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    The biggest issue I have seen with the wraps is still having to have the same base that you would for paint. If there is a pin hole in the gel coat it shows, if there is a ripple in the body it shows. So once you get to the point of the body prep being done you are looking at the difference of the paint and labor of the final colors.


    Now, if you were going to do a highly graphical paint job then the wrap may be the way to go. It just depends on what you want to end up with. I have been talking to a Wrap company here in Dallas and they do some good work. I have been quoted $2,200.00 for the wrap with any graphics I want.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

  38. #38
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    Thanks for the info Tim, right now I am just considering it, I think the carbon fiber look would be different.
    I have been doing some body work and have several parts and the back half of the body in primer. Doors, hood and truck have been sanded to fit with consistent gaps. Wheels and tires have come in.DSCF1681.JPG. All aluminum floor pans have been sprayed with Lizard Skin.
    I have run into an issue, probably because I did things bassackward. I fit the nose cone first, with the grill pulled back the nose cone was angled down in the front, so I pushed the grill forward, which put the nose cone inline. Then I fit the side covers, removed them and fit the hood. For some unknown reason the side covers appear to be too tall when the hood is put back on. DSCF1687.JPG. I know you are suppose to trim some off the hood, but at the grill its off by almost 2 inches??? I will deal with this issue later on.
    Its time for the body to come back off the chassis and get ready to put a motor into this project!

  39. #39
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff33 View Post

    So am I correct in assuming that you have a lift as well? I was just wondering how you were going to get your entire car off the buck as high as it is.


    Tim
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

  40. #40
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    Hi Tim
    Unfortunately no lift, its going to be jack it up, put it on jack stands, then lower to the ground, or at least that's the plan.
    Duff

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