Our First Start

[NA5KAR]

My boys and I did a lot of work on the car earlier today to get ready for first start. Once we were comfortable that we could turn the key, we pushed the car out of the garage. Feel free to check out the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gAkQV29HU The engine is a Blueprint 302 with Holley Sniper and Holley external fuel pump.

In the video, the reason it took a minute before the engine cranked, was that I was holding the clutch down expecting that the clutch switch needed to be ‘let out’ in order to start. In fact, when I released the clutch, that was when it cranked. I’ll fix the clutch switch issue later. The engine cranked but didn’t start. That’s when we discovered that we didn’t re-attach the plug to the distributor after removing it to crank the engine to coat it with oil. After my son attached the plug to the distributor, it started. The engine runs ‘super smooth’ and it is not uncomfortably loud. After about 15 minutes the temp gauge read 180 degrees and the Sniper turned the fan on. The engine ran beautifully for about 20 minutes overall, and then it simply stopped. I didn’t do anything to stop the engine, but it just quit. Earlier today, we put 5 gallons of gas in the tank. That was the first gas in there. So, I thought that the engine stopped because it didn’t have enough fuel. We put another 5 gallons in the tank. The fuel gauge didn’t move from empty (another issue). After putting in the second 5 gallons, I tried to start it again. It started right away, ran for about 45 seconds, and quit. I remember reading in Johnny’s FAQ that I should not run the engine for short intervals because that might mess up the Sniper programming. So, I decided to put the car away.

I’m new to installing engines, so before I try to diagnose the problem, I was hoping that someone might be able to point me in the right direction. If I had to guess, I would think that the fuel just stopped pumping, but I can’t think of a reason why. Thought I would mention that I covered the fuel tank fill tube with tape. No venting in the fill tube. Could that be the issue? Thanks in advance for any guidance.

[Ducky2009]

Congrats, sounds great.

[CaptB]

Nice work.

[egchewy79]

sounds great! the look of relief on your face is priceless. I'm sure I had the same look on mine.
I had the same issue w/ my clutch switch. The manual has it labeled incorrectly. Just switch the location of the wires on the switch to fix this issue.
Regarding your dying engine issue, I doubt it's related to your covered fill tube considering that it died after refilling with more fuel. And not likely related to running out of fuel if you only idled for 20min and had 5 gallons in it.
perhaps post more about your fuel system. in tank vs in line pump? do you hear the pump working when keyed on, prior to crank?
is your EFI giving you any fault codes?

[NA5KAR]

sounds great! the look of relief on your face is priceless. I'm sure I had the same look on mine.
I had the same issue w/ my clutch switch. The manual has it labeled incorrectly. Just switch the location of the wires on the switch to fix this issue.
Regarding your dying engine issue, I doubt it's related to your covered fill tube considering that it died after refilling with more fuel. And not likely related to running out of fuel if you only idled for 20min and had 5 gallons in it.
perhaps post more about your fuel system. in tank vs in line pump? do you hear the pump working when keyed on, prior to crank?
is your EFI giving you any fault codes?

Thanks egchewy79. I was expecting to have to chase down multiple issues before starting it, so yes, I was super relieved. I will work on the clutch switch wiring today. Thanks for that heads up. I didn't really think it was the non vented masking tape on the fuel fill tube causing the problem, but I wanted to mention it in case. As for the Sniper hand held monitor, I didn't think to check that during the event, but I will on the next start later today. My fuel pump is a Holley external pump mounted horizontally next to the fuel tank and level with the bottom of the tank. Pic below. I heard the pump come on when the key was in the run position. Have not tried it again since last night. That will be one of my projects today. The fuel tank now has 10 gallon in it so fuel availability will not be the issue. 20210808_160011.jpg20210808_155852.jpg

[egchewy79]

oh, and if you have the speed hut fuel gauge, read the direction on how to calibrate the gauge. plug the push button cable in the back of the fuel gauge, hold it for a couple of seconds, and then tap the button until the needle is at the 7/8th full tank mark. I believe this is the correct setting for our fuel senders.

[NA5KAR]

oh, and if you have the speed hut fuel gauge, read the direction on how to calibrate the gauge. plug the push button cable in the back of the fuel gauge, hold it for a couple of seconds, and then tap the button until the needle is at the 7/8th full tank mark. I believe this is the correct setting for our fuel senders.

Thanks again. My fuel gauge is Auto Meter. Bought directly from them. It's one of their base models. I'll re-read their install instructions to see if I missed a step.

[phileas_fogg]

Since you've got the Sniper, turn the key to RUN but don't immediately start the car. After the Sniper boots, set it (using the handheld unit) to log data. Start the car, & let the Sniper collect data until the car dies, or you're comfortable it's gonna run forever. You can analyze the data off-line on your PC.

You'll likely be overwhelmed at the amount of data the Sniper collects, but look at the engine timing, the RPM, and fuel pressure (if you've got a pressure transducer installed; a less expensive transducer is https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1).


John

[Sdonnel]

The look on your face is priceless. IT'S ALIVE. We all had that same feeling. Now the itch to go cart will be nagging you. Wait until you turn out of the driveway and think "Do I nail it this soon?"

[NA5KAR]

Since you've got the Sniper, turn the key to RUN but don't immediately start the car. After the Sniper boots, set it (using the handheld unit) to log data. Start the car, & let the Sniper collect data until the car dies, or you're comfortable it's gonna run forever. You can analyze the data off-line on your PC.

You'll likely be overwhelmed at the amount of data the Sniper collects, but look at the engine timing, the RPM, and fuel pressure (if you've got a pressure transducer installed; a less expensive transducer is https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1).


John

Thanks John. I'm going to follow your guidance when I start it today or tomorrow (depending on the weather). I was advised to put an in-line fuel pressure gauge into the system. That should happen in the next couple of days as well. I'll post my results. Thanks again.

[NA5KAR]

The look on your face is priceless. IT'S ALIVE. We all had that same feeling. Now the itch to go cart will be nagging you. Wait until you turn out of the driveway and think "Do I nail it this soon?"

I knew that the Blueprint engine was solid. Just wasn't sure about my plumbing and wiring. Very happy that it was a good startup.

[NA5KAR]

I spoke to Jose Zarraga from Blueprint Engines, and explained my issue. Among other suggestions, he said that I should be prepared to Go-Cart the car on the next startup so the Sniper can learn and program itself. He also said that during the startup last night, with the car sitting still and running for 20 minutes, the Sniper could not self adjust, and even might have overheated and turned the car off. So, I will follow his advice and get the car ready for a neighborhood Go-Cart ride in the next day or two. I also plan to install (at Jose's suggestion) an in-line fuel pressure gauge and monitor the Sniper hand held to get a read on the data. I'm sure we can nail down the issue pretty quickly.

[phileas_fogg]

I'm not aware of any EFI system that will shut down the car due to an over temperature condition, and 180* certainly isn't overheating. The Holley EFI systems WILL shut down the fuel pump if they don't see an RPM signal; that's one of the things we're looking for in the data log.

Also, the Holley systems are ALWAYS learning once the car reaches a temperature threshold (the default is 160* I think, but you can set it to whatever value you want). The system will make adjustments to the fuel table whether the car is moving or not, but obviously only for the RPMs you run the engine. That's where go-kart is really useful; you run the engine under load from 900-3000 RPMs, and the system learns over a large-ish part of its fuel table.

Finally, you can see how much the system is adjusting by looking at the learning table on the PC, and - if you've got the laptop connected while the engine is running - watch it make adjustments in real time.


John

P.S. Have you set up the Sniper to control engine timing? Or are you doing something else?

[NA5KAR]

I'm not aware of any EFI system that will shut down the car due to an over temperature condition, and 180* certainly isn't overheating. The Holley EFI systems WILL shut down the fuel pump if they don't see an RPM signal; that's one of the things we're looking for in the data log.

Also, the Holley systems are ALWAYS learning once the car reaches a temperature threshold (the default is 160* I think, but you can set it to whatever value you want). The system will make adjustments to the fuel table whether the car is moving or not, but obviously only for the RPMs you run the engine. That's where go-kart is really useful; you run the engine under load from 900-3000 RPMs, and the system learns over a large-ish part of its fuel table.

Finally, you can see how much the system is adjusting by looking at the learning table on the PC, and - if you've got the laptop connected while the engine is running - watch it make adjustments in real time.


John

P.S. Have you set up the Sniper to control engine timing? Or are you doing something else?

Thanks John. On my next start, I'll be monitoring the Sniper hand held. I haven't set up anything myself yet. I'm relying on the setup from Blueprint. Today, I'm going to remove / check the spark plugs, install the in-line fuel pressure gauge I just bought, build and install a fuel tank vent carbon canister, and verify that the coil wire is properly connected and secured. A few other items as well. Next start will likely be tomorrow morning. I'll post results. Thanks

[Geoff H]

Just a thought, what was your battery voltage during cranking? The cranking rpm seemed to slow rather quickly - has the battery been sitting a while? My sniper is quite picky about cranking battery and alternator charging voltage. Might be worth trickle charge it while you continue to build. Engine sounds fantastic!

[NA5KAR]

Just a thought, what was your battery voltage during cranking? The cranking rpm seemed to slow rather quickly - has the battery been sitting a while? My sniper is quite picky about cranking battery and alternator charging voltage. Might be worth trickle charge it while you continue to build. Engine sounds fantastic!

Thank you Geoff. Yes, the battery was purchased in Dec 2020 and has been sitting since then. The multimeter said 12.25 volts on the battery before starting, but I know that could be misleading, as it was not under load. During the run, the voltmeter was at 14 volts for 20 minutes. However, I agree that a trickle charger is the answer. I'll set that up tomorrow. Thanks

[NA5KAR]

Hi Guys. I got the things I needed to do done, and we did our first Go-Cart ride today. Leading up to the Go-Cart ride today, I installed an in-line fuel pressure gauge, removed the spark plugs and checked them for fouling, I went over all of the wiring and verified that it's all connected properly, I re-wired the clutch switch, and added a charcoal fuel vent canister. I also (eyeball) adjusted the front end alignment, checked all fluids, tightened hose clamps, installed the driver's side seatbelt, torqued the wheels, and filled the tires to 24 psi. I made a temporary mount for my fire extinguisher on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel ... just in case.

The 302 started right away and sounded great. This whole experience was surreal. Rolled out of the driveway and could not believe that I was driving a car that I'm building. I immediately had a flashback to my drives at the Richard Petty Driving Experience. The feel and sound of my car was so similar. So, I drove the car around the neighborhood for about a mile and a half. I varied the RPMs during the trip. I had a friend following in case I needed to be towed home. The car ran amazing. It sounded great and handled great. The whole ride was all of 12 minutes. I backed into the driveway and turned the car off. After about 10 minutes, it was my son's turn to drive it. In the driveway, the fuel pressure gauge was steady at 60 psi. The car sounded great. I was in the chase truck. He got about a mile into his ride when the motor quit running. With the key in the run position, the fuel pump did not come on. Tried to start the engine with no luck. We had to tow the car home. In the driveway, it still would not start, so we put the car in the garage for now. After about 20 minutes, I came back outside to test a theory. I had my son turn the key to Run. The fuel pump came on. However, it would not start. I had him try the key to Run again. No fuel pump noise. I put my multimeter on the fuel pump terminals and there was no power to it. We waited a few minutes and tried again. The pump came on and he started the car. I saw 60 psi on the fuel pressure gauge. It was running for about 2 minutes. I went to video the Sniper hand held. I got 11 seconds of footage and the car died. I decided to put the car away and look for answers. Hopefully, the video (link below) will reveal something. My guess is that the Sniper is turning off the fuel pump. Could not begin to guess why. I'm not clear on how to operate the Sniper programming, so if you have suggestions about how to check the data, please share the steps to get to it.
Sorry for the long story. Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Dan

Spark Plugs after first start.jpg20210906_135525.jpg

Click below to see the Sniper hand held video.
https://youtu.be/Se3b7N1X1Qk

[D Stand]

Per the video it looks like the sniper is loosing power all together. I would recheck all of your connections.

[phileas_fogg]

Easy thing first...are the battery cables screwed down tight to the battery posts? A loose connection there will cause the ECU to lose power & shut off.

Second...where is the fuel pump relay? I had a problem that I *think* turned out to be the fuel pump relay overheating & cutting power. My solution was to replace the generic relay with a Bosch brand rated to temperatures I knew it wouldn't see behind my dash.

Were you able to successfully log data? You'll have to save the data file from the ECU onto the SIM card on your handheld. Then you can copy the file from the SIM card (I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) onto your PC & look at it with the Holley software.


John

[Blitzboy54]

Check your grounds. Did you run it through the inertia switch? Also are you using the RF harness relay or the sniper? Like Phileas said, relay or ground sounds the likeliest. Check your fuse panel as well.

[NA5KAR]

Thanks guys. All good suggestions and I will chase each one down. As for the inertia switch, already checked and it is good. I checked the battery cables and all is good there too. The battery is in the trunk and I have a dedicated 4 gauge ground wire running directly to the engine block. I spoke with Jose at Blueprint this morning. He wants me to run the engine until it quits again. Then, right away, pull one spark plug and put the boot on it and set it on the head and turn the engine over. He wants me to look for spark. Trying to rule out the distributor or coil overheating and shutting down. He said that if there is no spark, then the Sniper would detect that and shut down the fuel pump. So, we need to rule out the distributor overheating before moving on. It has been storming all day here in sunny South Florida, so, I'll try this test in the morning if weather permits. Thanks again.