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Thread: Long-Delayed West Michigan Build

  1. #1
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Long-Delayed West Michigan Build

    Stewart is delivering my kit tomorrow, so its time to start my build thread.

    I’m Geoff Harlow, a 66-year old recently retired CPA firm partner who has dreamed about building a MK IV for many years. I put myself through college working in garages but haven’t done much mechanical work for 40 years. I’m hoping it’s like riding a bike but am realistic about my skills having atrophied.

    I attended the build school in December, 2017 along with my daughter Kay, planning to order a kit soon thereafter, but then life got in the way. My CPA firm merged into a much larger firm, wife and I bought a lake house in Michigan, Kay got married, I was diagnosed with lymphoma and underwent treatment (all good so far), we sold our home of 35 years and moved into a high-rise condo in Chicago, and I was involved in several special projects for some civic organizations with which I’m involved. But I’m finally getting my kit.

    I’ll be building the car at our home in Pentwater, Michigan. It’s configured as follows:
    Mk IV complete kit
    Powdercoated chassis
    Lowback vintage racing seats
    Power steering
    IRS
    Vintage FFR gauges
    Wipers
    F & R swaybars
    Vinyl dash with glovebox
    Driver & passenger chrome rollbars

    From outside vendors I plan to purchase:
    GasN headers and Touring side pipes
    Breeze side view mirrors, storage cubby, and engine compartment battery mounting kit.
    Turn signal conversion, source TBD.
    Countless other things I’ll decide I need during my build.

    Engine – to be determined. I’m having a hard time deciding between a 347 or 427, most likely from BPE. Opinions on which motor to choose are welcome. Either way I’m going with EFI.

    I’m not in a hurry with the build, and expect it to take at least 2 years, and maybe three. It’s the journey, right? I’ll be working on it during April to October as we split our time between Pentwater and Chicago.

    I apologize in advance for the many dumb questions I will no doubt be asking. Please be gentle. I honestly value and appreciate any advice, suggestions, or feedback anyone is willing to provide. Here we go!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member MSumners's Avatar
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    Awesome, congratulations. Finished a 3-ish year build mk4 last year and located in Hudsonville. There are other builders in the West Michigan area as well. Ever want to stop through on the drive to Pentwater to check anything out you are welcome!
    Coupe Kit Delivered 11/10/23

    Roadster Build thread: 2019-2022 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...4-Build-Thread

  3. #3
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    Welcome.
    Jim in GR.
    2016 Mk4 Challenge Car, IRS, 3.31 Torsen, RDI Aluminum 427w, AFR 225s, Vic Jr. ProSystems 780 HP, TKO-600 w/Liberty mods. Forward cage. Levy 6/4 piston Wilwoods. Not completed yet, will be a streetable track car.
    2004 Superformance MkIII #1855, 2007 Superformance MkIII #2584 purchased in 2012 both sold.

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  5. #4
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSumners View Post
    Awesome, congratulations. Finished a 3-ish year build mk4 last year and located in Hudsonville. There are other builders in the West Michigan area as well. Ever want to stop through on the drive to Pentwater to check anything out you are welcome!
    Thanks! At some point I'll take you up on your offer.

  6. #5
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Delivery of my kit went smoothly. We knew all along that the Stewart truck would not be able to make it to my house, so I arranged delivery at a local tow company/salvage yard/U-Haul franchise. Eric from Stewart called me on Wednesday, and texted to confirm the delivery time on Thursday night and again Friday morning.
    Stewart Truck.jpeg

    The folks at Oceana Auto in Hart MI couldn’t have been nicer and more helpful. We first loaded the boxes into a small U-Haul truck Eric had suggested I rent and then he lowered the body/chassis onto a dolly I built (design copied from other build threads of course).

    Boxes.jpeg

    Body on dolly.jpeg

    Loaded on rolloff.jpg

    After securing the body/chassis to the roll-off tow vehicle we made the 10-mile trek to my house, where everything was unloaded into my garage.

    HomeSweetHome.jpg
    Last edited by KayzDad; 04-23-2023 at 04:02 PM.

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    Congratulations! Even sweeter seeing how long you've been waiting for this. Enjoy!

    - Jim from South Bend

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Congrats from the other side of the state in SE Michigan. Will be following your build. Enjoy.

    Paul B. from Lake Orion
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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  12. #8
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    I’ve inventoried half of the boxes and so far nothing is MIK (knock wood). There are around 23 items on the POL list, many which I know I won’t need for many months. Others I’m not sure when I’ll need but I’m not going to worry at this point.

    I am surprised that the Certificate of Origin and Nameplate are on the POL. Is this typical?

    The temp dropped to the mid-30s today, so I decided a day of rest (and watching playoff hockey) was called for. Tomorrow is forecast to be in the mid-40s, so I’ll be back in the garage. Hard to believe it was in the 80s ten days ago.

    BoxesBoxesBoxes.jpeg

  13. #9
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KayzDad View Post
    I am surprised that the Certificate of Origin and Nameplate are on the POL. Is this typical?
    That's the normal process. Used to be sent with the last POL shipment. Now sometimes sent earlier if there's some longer lead items you're waiting for. But you'll get them.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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  15. #10
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    That's the normal process. Used to be sent with the last POL shipment. Now sometimes sent earlier if there's some longer lead items you're waiting for. But you'll get them.
    That makes sense - thanks for explaining!

  16. #11
    Senior Member rthomas98's Avatar
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    congratulations from Ypsilanti MI. You should have fun.

  17. #12
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    I received my nameplate and COO 3-4 weeks after delivery. It was exciting opening that box. Congratulations on the build. Tom
    Mk4 #10605 Ordered 5/28/2022. Received 3/18/2023
    Build Thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roaster-Build

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  19. #13
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    I’ve made some progress in the ten days since delivery. All the boxes have been inventoried, with only a few items missing. I had initially 23 items on my POC list, and have already received 3 FedEx packages which reduced the number to 9. Only one, the disc brake hardware kit, is something I could see needing this month.

    There were two smaller aluminum panels I can't identify. The first was in Box 10, with the cockpit and engine bay aluminum, and has a part number of 13647 written on it, which I can't find listed anywhere in my parts list. Here's an image:
    What am I - 1.jpg

    The second was taped to the passenger side floor panel. If anyone can identify these I will be grateful.
    What am I - 2b.jpg

    Next the body was removed and stored on my body buck. With no one other than my wife available to help I assembled a grand plan involving Gambrel hoists and pulleys, but it turned out my 5’3” 115lb older-than-me wife is pretty damn strong, and the two of us were able to (carefully) lift the body off the chassis and onto the buck.

    Removing the aluminum panels involved a couple of days of photographing, marking, indexing, and photographing some more, and then carefully removing the panels and setting them aside.

    We spent the weekend in Chicago and returned Sunday evening to cold, windy, and rainy weather. I have discovered that working in my detached unheated garage when it is 35 degrees or less is not something I’m interested in doing, so yesterday and today involved shopping for tools, searching for powder coaters, and reading more build threads. It's supposed to be warmer tomorrow so I’ll be back in the garage drilling panels.

  20. #14
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    First piece pictured is the mount for your fuse panel. The second is the firewall extension. Goes on the RH side on top of the 2x2 crosspiece. The notch is to clear the windshield post on that side. Should give you enough clues to find it in the manual.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  21. #15
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    First piece pictured is the mount for your fuse panel. The second is the firewall extension. Goes on the RH side on top of the 2x2 crosspiece. The notch is to clear the windshield post on that side. Should give you enough clues to find it in the manual.
    Thanks for the information!

  22. #16
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Ordered an engine!

    I called Mike Forte and after a discussion of the pros and cons I ordered a Dart-based 363. As many others on the forum have said Mike returned my call right away, listened to my thoughts and concerns, and gave valuable advice. So glad to have this decision behind me!

  23. #17
    Member jvfitz's Avatar
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    thanks Edward

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    First piece pictured is the mount for your fuse panel. The second is the firewall extension. Goes on the RH side on top of the 2x2 crosspiece. The notch is to clear the windshield post on that side. Should give you enough clues to find it in the manual.
    I had the same two mystery panels. No mystery now.
    Fitz

  24. #18
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Long-delayed Update

    Sorry it’s been so long since I last posted. I’m making progress but am finding I’ve grossly overestimated the amount of time I’ll have this summer to work on the build. Good thing I’m fine with slow and steady.

    The aluminum panels have been fitted, drilled, and powder coated. Once I realized the screws that attached the panels for shipping were not placed with precision things went faster, as initially I was spending time trying to make everything fit using the screw holes as guides.

    The front suspension and brakes have been installed and I hope to complete work on the IRS next week when I’m back. With the front suspension I encountered the problem many have described getting a grip on the rear nut holding the upper A-arm to the frame. My daughter climbed into the engine compartment and was able to get an open-end wrench on the nuts so I could torque them to the suggested 80-85 ft-lbs.

    PS Front.jpg

    For the IRS so far I’ve removed the wheel studs from the hubs and installed the correct studs, cut the ears off the rear spindles, and drilled out the tapered hole at the top of the spindle.

    I don’t mind spending money, per se, but try to avoid buying tools I expect to use only once. Before buying a Sawzall I figured I’d at least try cutting off the ears with a manual hacksaw, which worked out OK. I alternated between sawing for 5 minutes and resting for 5 minutes and each ear took around an hour. I did start with a new blade and changed blades halfway through each ear which helped a lot.

    Knocking the old studs out of the hubs was much easier than I expected. Between 5 and 8 blows with a standard hammer was all it took to knock each one out. This got me overconfident, and I tried pulling a new stud into the hub with a lug nut and a washer. I got nowhere. After reading a few posts I put the new studs into the freezer overnight, picked up a hardened nut and 5 hardened washers at the local Ace, and applied red grease to the studs. Voila! Pulling the new studs into the hubs with a socket and breaker bar was easy, and I avoided buying an impact wrench.

    Rear hub.jpeg

    I’ll be back in Michigan tomorrow, with an open week to get more done. I’m really looking forward to getting back into the garage.

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    I believe your steering arms are reversed, they are pointed forward and outward but the smaller taper should be at the top so they need to switch sides so the outer tie rod can enter from the bottom to keep your steering geometry correct.

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  27. #20
    Senior Member F500guy's Avatar
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    Getting a good work in the build process as well!

  28. #21
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosh1999 View Post
    I believe your steering arms are reversed, they are pointed forward and outward but the smaller taper should be at the top so they need to switch sides so the outer tie rod can enter from the bottom to keep your steering geometry correct.
    Thanks - I'll take a look at this tomorrow.

  29. #22
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Once again the wisdom of others bails out an inexperienced builder like me. Thanks mosh1999 for noting the mistake I made with the steering arms. The mistake has been corrected. It is amazing how much faster things go together the second time around.

  30. #23
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    Major Accomplishment and Major Problem

    Yesterday’s major accomplishment was getting the center section for the IRS installed. I managed to get it into position by myself, and then Kay was able to help me get everything lined up precisely and bolt it into place. I am so happy to have this task behind me!

    Center section 2.jpgCenter section 3.jpg

    This was mostly a one-person job. I really do have friends, but my gearhead friends are in the Chicago area and their interest in helping me drops considerably when they find out I'm doing the build in Michigan, a roughly 4-hour drive away. So I'm doing most of the build by myself, with occasional help from my wife and my daughter when she visits us at the lake house.

    I'll acknowledge I am a moron for not buying an engine hoist before this part of the build. I'm going to need one anyway when it's time to drop in the motor so in the long run I'm not saving any $$ by holding off the purchase. My cheapskate approach was to use multiple tie-down straps (each rated at more than 300lbs) to prevent the center section from falling, and raise the center section an inch or two at a time with a combination of a floor jack and as much muscle as a 66-year old can muster. It took me a few tries (and around 8 hours) to get the straps arranged so the center section would end up in the correct position but eventually I got there. Using an engine hoist would have been so much better, faster, and smarter.

    Center section 1.jpg

    Yesterday’s major problem related to threads in one of the upper control arms for the IRS. See thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...er-Control-Arm

    I had no trouble threading the adjuster bung all the way into the good upper control arm by hand but could only get a bung 0.7" into the bad upper control arm, and then only with a wrench. I tried both bungs in both arms and both worked fine in the good control arm and had the same issue in the bad arm, so I'm pretty sure the issue is the threads in the bad control arm. But I'm not sure if there is a way to fix the bad threads that is less expensive than a new control arm, or if I should call FFR to see if they are willing to exchange the bad arm for a good one. Advice is welcome!

    Thanks, Geoff

  31. #24
    Senior Member danmas's Avatar
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    Well done! I had two goes at it. My first time was sort of your approach. My second time I used my overhead hoist. No morons here. We are all just doing the best we can. I did go ahead and buy a 2 ton hoist after this exercise tho. As you point out I need one anyway. Still, it feels good when it is finally seated. Doesn't it?
    ----
    Mk4 complete kit arrived 10 May 23
    Current BOM

  32. #25
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmas View Post
    Well done! I had two goes at it. My first time was sort of your approach. My second time I used my overhead hoist. No morons here. We are all just doing the best we can. I did go ahead and buy a 2 ton hoist after this exercise tho. As you point out I need one anyway. Still, it feels good when it is finally seated. Doesn't it?
    OMG it felt great!!

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  34. #26
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    I am having so much fun on this build! I’m learning a lot, solving various problems, and making slow and steady progress. We’ve had a steady stream of guests for almost all of August, which has cut down on time available for the build, but I’ve been able to spend a few hours here and there.

    Last time I posted I had an issue with bad threads in one of the IRS upper control arms. While FFR did offer to send a new control arm I was able to buy a tap for $30 and fix the threads.
    Tap for Control Arm.jpeg

    At this point the front and rear suspension have been installed, including sway bars, as well as the pedal box and steering rack. I hope to begin fitting brake lines next.

    So far my most valuable tool has been the DIY whatchamacallit that spreads mounting brackets. Every mounting bracket for the front and rear suspension, including the sway bars, has been too narrow.
    HALFINCHSPREADER-R.jpeg

    After the IRS was installed I discovered the frame had been mounted too far forward on the chassis dolly, and as a result I could now lift the front end off the dolly without too much effort . Fortunately there was enough weight on the front end that it didn’t rock on its own.

    The solution was straightforward. I bought an engine hoist, which I planned on buying anyway, and used it to raise the rear end above the dolly, holding it up with jackstands, and moved the hoist to the front to lift the front end above the dolly. At this point it was simple to move the dolly further back on the frame, and afterwards I couldn’t lift either the front or rear end at all.
    Lift Rear.jpgRear Jack Stands.jpg

    I see a lot builders are using stainless steel brake lines, but also mentioning how difficult they are to bend and flare. I decided to go with NiCop lines as I need to walk before I can run.

    I’ve been studying the instruction manual, various build threads, and videos I took at the build school to figure out where to route my brake lines. While all of these are similar there are also slight differences in routing, which suggests to me that there are multiple good ways to route the lines (within reason of course). Like much of my build I’ll figure it out as I go along.

    A question: the yoke on the front of the IRS center section has acquired quite a bit of surface rust since I installed it. Should sand this off and coat it with something or just leave it alone? Suggestion on what to coat it with?
    surface rust.jpg

    Hope everyone has had a great summer!

    Geoff
    Geoff Harlow
    Build School: 12/8/17 - 12/10/17
    Complete Kit - delivered April 21, 2023
    Dart 363 by Forte, IRS, Pwr Steering

  35. #27
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Brake Lines Too Wavy

    I'm using NICop lines as I suspect my skills aren't up to doing stainless. The lines came in 25 ft coils, which of course need to be straightened and then bent. I have all the lines installed but I'm not happy with how wavy they look. I bought a tubing straightener off Amazon, one that can be used mid-run, and will see if it will help make the lines look more professional. If this doesn't work I'll give it another try. I can probably use the practice.

    Any advice on doing a better job straightening the coiled lines before I bend them?

    Here are some pictures of where I am now. Brake lines 1.jpegBrake lines 3.jpgBrake lines 4.jpgBrake lines 5.jpgBrake lines 6.jpg
    Geoff Harlow
    Build School: 12/8/17 - 12/10/17
    Complete Kit - delivered April 21, 2023
    Dart 363 by Forte, IRS, Pwr Steering

  36. #28
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    Engine is Ready to Ship! Tips on storing?

    Mike Forte called, and my engine is ready to ship! It's a 363 SB Ford (Dart block) and pulled 441hp at 5800 rpm. I love the flat torque curve!

    It's likely I won't be able to install the engine and hook everything up until next spring. Now I'm worried about anything I might need to do to store the engine safely until then in an unheated garage where temps will get well below freezing. For example, will any water be left in the block from the dyno run? I'll reach out to Mike for advice, but also welcome any wisdom the smart folks on the forum can provide.Geoff Harlow F363 - Graph.jpg
    Geoff Harlow
    Build School: 12/8/17 - 12/10/17
    Complete Kit - delivered April 21, 2023
    Dart 363 by Forte, IRS, Pwr Steering

  37. #29
    On a roll Al_C's Avatar
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    My first idea may not be feasible, but it's worth asking: could Mike put coolant (antifreeze) in it and get it circulated before he ships it? Second idea - store it in your house (which I suspect you keep well above freezing) for the winter. A small block is about 26" wide, so it should fit through the door.

    You are certainly welcome to visit us here in Chicagoland if you'd like to see a finished car and/or just talk. - Al C.
    Mk IV Roadster - #8650 - delivered 7-17-2015 - first start 7-28-2018 - first go-kart 10-13-2018 - licensed and on the road 9-9-19: body/paint completed 3-17-2020.
    Complete kit / 2015 Coyote / TKO600 / IRS / Wilwood brakes / Mid-Shift mod / Power Steering / Heater and Seat Heaters / RT turn signal / Breeze radiator shroud and mount

  38. #30
    Member KayzDad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_C View Post
    My first idea may not be feasible, but it's worth asking: could Mike put coolant (antifreeze) in it and get it circulated before he ships it? Second idea - store it in your house (which I suspect you keep well above freezing) for the winter. A small block is about 26" wide, so it should fit through the door.

    You are certainly welcome to visit us here in Chicagoland if you'd like to see a finished car and/or just talk. - Al C.
    I'll reach out in a few weeks, as I'd love to see your car and ask lots of annoying questions. Thanks!
    Geoff Harlow
    Build School: 12/8/17 - 12/10/17
    Complete Kit - delivered April 21, 2023
    Dart 363 by Forte, IRS, Pwr Steering

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