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Thread: Update: Cam Help From Expert Engine Guys & Gals

  1. #1

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Update: Cam Help From Expert Engine Guys & Gals

    Hey Gang,

    Since I've got to move all of my goodies from my Leaky Chevy Block over to the new Dart SHP Block there are some issues.

    The main issue is that the "Gray Iron" used in the SHP Castings don't really do well with the flat tappet style lifters since they are of similar metallurgy.
    That means I get to spend even more money for a Hydraulic Roller Cam since those lifters are tool steel and like to hang out inside of the Gray Iron lifter bores.
    I've heard of the book and movie called 50 Shades of Gray, but is that what all of the hub-bub was about a year or two ago? (Hummmmm / Guess I'll Never Know?)
    My choice is to sleeve the lifter bores with bronze bushing or simply buy the Roller.

    Shown below is what I am running (Blue) and what I'm looking at purchasing (Red) so chime in if you have any suggestions.


    Existing Hydraulic Flat Tappet

    Advertised @ .006 Lift
    284 Intake
    296 Exhaust

    Lobe Separation:
    110

    Intake Centerline:
    106

    Duration @ .050" Lift:
    240 Intake
    246 Exhaust

    Valve Lift:
    0.507 Intake
    0.510 Exhaust



    Hydraulic Roller

    Advertised Duration @ .006 Lift
    288 Intake
    294 Exhaust

    Lobe Separation:
    110

    Intake Centerline:
    106

    Duration @ .050" Lift:
    236 Intake
    242 Exhaust

    Valve Lift:
    0.520 Intake
    0.540 Exhaust


    Any suggestions would be appreciated since this is about the closest cam I could get to the existing flat tappet specs.
    Here is how it ran a day or so before my issue began:

    https://youtu.be/PCngiKoopkA

    Thanks All!

    Steve
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 02-11-2019 at 09:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    That cam is pretty mild and will run well. I guess it depends on what kind of power level you are looking for and whether you are going EFI or carb.
    Go Fast Part and tech Specialist [email protected]
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    Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
    2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
    Completed over 215 FFR builds in the last 23 years and still counting

  3. #3

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Levy View Post
    That cam is pretty mild and will run well. I guess it depends on what kind of power level you are looking for and whether you are going EFI or carb.
    The engine specs are a little better than Edelbrock's 383 crate motor that they claim coughs up 460 HP so I'm thinking a 425-435 HP in the real world of pump gas, high air temps, and humidity levels down here near NOLA.
    I'd like to go with an EFI set up down the road, but don't want to open up the lobe seperation to 112 or 113 since it is likely going to remain carburated because the budget is really getting stretched.

    Here are all the specs for the car:

    1. 383 Small Block Dart 9.7-1 Pump Gas Friendly Compression Ratio!
    2. Eagle Internally Balanced Rotating Assembly With 6" H-Beam Rods With Floating Forged Flat Tops.
    3. Dart Iron Eagle 215 CC Heads with 2.05 Intake & 1.60 Exhaust Valves.
    4. Harland Sharp Roller Rockers & Other Go Fast Goodies.
    5. Comp Cam Extreme Energy 284 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam
    6. Edelbrock AVS 800 Feeding A Weiand 7530 Team G Single Plane Manifold.
    7. Schoenfeld IMCA Modified Headers & They Really, Really Fit, But Stuff Had To Move A Bit!
    8. New Old Stock Corvette ZF 6-Speed Transmission With Hydraulic Clutch. (.75 5th & .50 6th Gear Over Drives)
    9. Standard Front End Set Up With Mustang Brakes & Forte’s .75” Sway Bar.
    10. Standard 3 Link Moser TSD 500 Rear With 3.73 Gears & Explorer Brakes.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 10-13-2017 at 09:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Gordon Levy's Avatar
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    Should be a fun car
    Go Fast Part and tech Specialist [email protected]
    http://www.facebook.com/levyracing www.levyracing.com
    99/2000 NASA PSO Champion-2005 west coast FFR challenge series Champions
    Sponsor Tony B's 2007 ST2 National Championship
    2009 NASA TTC runner up-2010 NASA TTB runner up
    Completed over 215 FFR builds in the last 23 years and still counting

  5. #5
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Agree with Gordon, this mild cam should work well in your application. As a point of reference, I'm running a Howard's hyd roller with .599 / .596 lift and 289 / 297 duration in my 385 SBC and it still idles well enough to stay lit at 800 RPM -- yours should idle way better than mine. The Comp Cams modeling software puts mine at 542HP @ 6000 and 529 TQ @ 4500 and it will still be mild enough for the street. So I'd say you have some wiggle room if you want to pump up the power a bit and still have a driver. But you really should call the cam grinder and discuss your needs with him -- he'll give you the best advice.

  6. #6
    bobl's Avatar
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    I configured your engine build in a software modeling program I have. Those 2 cams show almost identical torque curves, making 450-460 HP in the 5600-5800 RPM range depending on how the cam is installed. So, if you are happy with the current performance that roller should work great for you.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  7. #7

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Gordon, Naz & Bobl,

    Your Input Is Greatly Appreciated!
    The goal of the car is to hit the mid to high 11's in street trim with only adding some stickier drag radials, assuming of course that I can still drive.
    With that said, thanks for the input and yes I was very happy with the way that the car drove before with the flat tappet cam as you can see in the attached video:

    https://youtu.be/yL4UmpII9ek

    With the 3.73 rear gears, 26" tall rear tires and the ZF 6-Speed, the car should use 1st thru 4th gears to traverse the quarter mile.
    4th will put the revs at 6,000 RPM's @ 125 MPH so I think I'll be hitting the end of the track someplace between 5,750 and 6,000 RPMs.
    In addition, the car should have an Insane Cruising Capability because 5th will drop the revs to 4,500 and 6th all the way down to 3,000 RPMs .

    Steve

    PS: The goal of this car is to be my "Fare Weather Daily Driver" that can make sub 12 second passes at Gulfport Dragway so it will be replacing my motorcycle.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 10-14-2017 at 07:20 AM.

  8. #8
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    nice vid, nice quick rundown, and i can feel the excitement. That is a great motor. the venerable 383/400 crank chevy is a staple in any home built car. Nice work.

  9. #9

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasAviator View Post
    nice vid, nice quick rundown, and i can feel the excitement. That is a great motor. the venerable 383/400 crank chevy is a staple in any home built car. Nice work.
    My combo was supposed to go in my 1980 Z/28 I went swimming in Katrina 2005. (Purchased New Early In 1981)
    I decided to build a Cobra and then started looking at several companies and very quickly Factory Five Racing moved to the top of the list.
    While several of the companies made very nice products, only one made had true race-bred components for every piece of their offerings.
    Like all of us on this forum, Factory Five Racing was the only choice and ironically the only company that I did not visit.
    This video, if you haven't seen it, really nailed the choice for me, but I had to figure out how to fit a 383 SBC with a ZF 6-Speed Gear Box in the car.

    https://youtu.be/wVT6QHyBxDA
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 11-09-2017 at 07:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member rich grsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Gordon, Naz & Bobl,

    With the 3.73 rear gears, 26" tall rear tires and the ZF 6-Speed, the car should use 1st thru 4th gears to traverse the quarter mile.
    4th will put the revs at 6,000 RPM's @ 125 MPH so I think I'll be hitting the end of the track someplace between 5,750 and 6,000 RPMs.
    In addition, the car should have an Insane Cruising Capability because 5th will drop the revs to 4,500 and 6th all the way down to 3,000 RPMs .

    Steve

    PS: The goal of this car is to be my "Fare Weather Daily Driver" that can make sub 12 second passes at Gulfport Dragway so it will be replacing my motorcycle.
    Mine cruises at 2000 rpm's, I would find trying to have a fun cruise at 3000 rpm's annoying

  11. #11

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
    Mine cruises at 2000 rpm's, I would find trying to have a fun cruise at 3000 rpm's annoying
    Agreed that 3,000 would be a bit annoying, plus our State Police would throw me under the jail for sure.

    1,500 RPM = 62.5 MPH
    2,250 RPM = 93.5 MPH
    3,000 RPM = 125. MPH

    No, I don't plan on cruising at 125 MPH, even though 6th gear would allow it.

    Those Speeds Are Reserved For The Race Track And Drivers Like John George, Dr. Karen Salvaggio Or My Juvenile Delinquent Pal Mr. Phil Daigrepont.

    https://youtu.be/8Z0rjor-s1w
    https://youtu.be/Kfqse2o8xlc
    https://youtu.be/SKrs8fYZ8Ro
    https://youtu.be/_y7ipvMvAV4

    NOTE:

    Phil has two TOJ's and he is hoping to sell the newer of the two which has been fully restored so send me a private message if anybody is interested.
    I think he's asking $350,000.00 for the car and it is certified to race in the SVRA series in Group-5.
    He raced the 1978 at C.O.T.A. last weekend to get some miles on it after the restoration.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 02-11-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  12. #12

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Hey Gang,

    FOR THE RECORD:>I want to thank NAZ, Rich, Texas Aviator, Bobl & Mr. Gordon Levy for their input.

    After 50 test miles I can honestly say that I'm pleasantly surprised, almost shocked.>Going down 4 degrees on the intake and exhaust (@ .050") and changing over to the roller set up has greatly improved drive-ability.>With the flat tappet cam, the car wasn't happy below 1,500 RPM's while the new cam is Happy, Happy, Happy at that RPM.>Reducing the internal friction by going to the roller came with a price, but it was worth the money I spent.

    NOTE:>We are now starting to do the body work on the car so that we can spray this project this spring.

    Steve

    https://youtu.be/wOID7yvBRPU
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 02-11-2019 at 12:51 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member RickP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    There you go chirp'n those tires again. Love it! Sounds like she is running just fine. I know this has been a long haul for you and it's just nice to see all your effort go down the road. Nice work Steve.


    RickP

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  15. #14
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Sure sounds great! Love that SBC power.

    Bet it's gonna sound even better at 6000 RPM in a cloud of tire smoke. Once you get it "legal" open up the rev limiter, strap that camera on the roll bar, and give us virtual ride along through the gears.

    Did I mention that I love that SBC in that little car?
    33 Hot Rod Super Pro Drag Racer
    33 HR NHRA Cert Roll Cage Build

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