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Thread: Shoeless GTM #501 Here we go!!!

  1. #161
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    Sent you a PM on the insulation question, finally back home and getting caught up, sorry for delayed response but races were a blast and weather at 80 degrees much better than weather at home in Wyoming at 11 for high and -10 for a low. But getting better now as spring approaches hope it comes soon ………….

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfr58 View Post
    Sent you a PM on the insulation question, finally back home and getting caught up, sorry for delayed response but races were a blast and weather at 80 degrees much better than weather at home in Wyoming at 11 for high and -10 for a low. But getting better now as spring approaches hope it comes soon ………….
    Thanks for the info James and glad you had a great time at the races. My buddies and I went to the 12 Hours of Sebring last year and were kicking around the idea of going yesterday, but it fell through. So I spent the time in the garage making progress. I got my AC lines all mocked up and I like they way they are laying in the front of the car now. That look some time, but I'm happy. So now time to pull them out and insulate them for final install.

    Those are some brutal temps, hopefully spring shows up soon for ya.

  3. #163
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    It's been one of those days on Shoeless GTM.

    I have spent a good amount of time lately digging into the AEM Series 5 EMS and laying out the wiring harness that I will need to modify. The more I dug into it, the more I had this sneaking feeling, I missed something. Well, I sure did. Long story short, the decision to go with the Series 5 placed unwanted limitations on the functionality I expected I was able to incorporate. First and probably the largest concern was the traction control. In the Series 5 tech specs it called out two wheel traction control. I shared several emails with AEM's tech support on the topic, but apparently I was't asking the question properly. I would have to hook up one non-drive wheel and one drive wheel. Well, that's not going to cut it. I need 4 wheel traction control with the EMS pulling data from all 4 wheels to do what I want. The second issue was the expandability to add the extra sensors I want. I found out the channels in the EMS that I thought I could reconfigure, I can't, they are fixed.

    I have lost some serious sleep, but fortunately Amazon is giving me a 100% refund on the wiring harness and Summit is only going to charge me a 10% restocking fee for the EMS and extra wideband O2 controller I bought. I was TOTALLY happy with this, especially since I purchased this stuff this last Thanksgiving.

    I will also need to redesign and have Shane remake me the custom bracket I had tabbed up for my fuel filter and rear electronics.

    This truly feels like 2 steps forward and 20 back, but nobody said building a custom GTM would be easy. This is just the process we have to follow trying to go down the path few, if any have traveled before (I know of no AEM EMS in a GTM to date, so I guess I'm the first).

    Time to roll up my sleeves and move on.

  4. #164
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Dang...sorry to hear about the setback, but glad to hear it didn't cost you much more than a lot of time....
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
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  5. #165
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that Sean, I to have had a few of the same type of things happen. Tried to integrate the Digital Dawg RFD system with the Infinity Box system like I was instructed but could never get it to work so at the end of the day I separated the two systems and got them to work as two separate systems with only the safety switch to prevent starting connected between the two. In a strange way it might have worked out for the best. If for any reason I loose the Infinity Box system I can still start and drive the car with the Digital Dawg working, the engine is on a stand alone wire harness and not tied to Infinity box system so the care will start and run even it nothing else works. The lock and unlock on the doors is tied to the Digital Dawg so I should be able to get in even with the Infinity box systems down or will have a manual pull tab on one door anyway to insure I can open the car if battery dead.

    Your are right not easy to build, but has been worth the effort even having to build the same thing three time to get it the way I want it. Gives me something to do, keep me out of the house and my mind always thinking of some other way to change the design into something I can say I built and made just a few design changes to hopefully make it better.

  6. #166
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    Thanks for the kind words Shane and James.

    No easy pill to swallow, but SO glad I found this issue now and not down the road so to speak. In the long run it will run a few more $$$, but will meet the expectations I’m going for. And that’s what’s more important to me.

    Funny thing though. I got an email at work today stating that an idea I came up with with over a year ago with a few other Colleagues is going to go in front of our Patent Review Board. If accepted Pratt & Whitney will submit for the patent and if all goes well, I’ll have my very first patent. For Engineers and like minded GTM builders that’s about as cool as it gets to me. I can’t share too many details, but it is in the field of additive manufacturing and incorporating it in our turbojet business.

    Not to mention it comes with a nice gold plaque and a monetary award, so that will more than cover this setback

  7. #167

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    So what system are you now going to use? Motec is the industry standard, but you would need that patent to pay off to afford it. No question you could get an ECU that would do whatever you wanted, but the price point is the issue. What do you have in mind?
    www.myraceshop.com

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  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash View Post
    So what system are you now going to use? Motec is the industry standard, but you would need that patent to pay off to afford it. No question you could get an ECU that would do whatever you wanted, but the price point is the issue. What do you have in mind?
    For now, I'm still leaning towards AEM, but need to step up to the Series 7 ECU. I have spent various time over the last year to learn the AEM platform and wouldn't mind starting over with a different company, but you are absolutely right, price point is the main concern stepping up to the functions I'm looking to have. A quick search on Motec would lead me down the path of the M142 and that is going for about $3,900. The AEM Series 7 is sitting at $2,400.

    There are also other factors that need to be taken into consideration. Unless you are very interested in doing as much of the initial setup and tuning yourself, and getting the training you need, you are looking at very expensive dyno time. I have taken some classes on HP Academy on Tuning and Wiring and have at least what I would consider a basic understanding of what needs to take place to at least get the base tune so the engine will start and then get into the road tuning process. I'll likely still need to get someone with a load bearing dyno to fine tune it for max break torque, but I should be able to get her going. AEM also offers Factory Training at their facility in California for $750 for two days and they require some knowledge of tuning to attend.

    There is also the cost of building the wiring harness. When I picked up the Series 5, there is a plug and play harness for the 58x timing engine I have. I quickly learned once I laid the harness in the GTM, it was WAY off and there was no way I was going to simply modify a few legs of it. I would have had to completely rebuild it from scratch. So now I'm leaning towards building my own harness from scratch for the Series 7. With that also comes the cost of the proper crimping tools to build the harness. Thankfully, I enjoy a challenge, learning the process, and taking pride in doing it on my own.

    The Patent Advisory Board meets April 4th I believe, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm also looking forward to being able to share some of the work I have been doing, once it gets patented

  9. #169
    Senior member Roger Reid's Avatar
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    Via pm you were interested in the rear sway bar I made. Here are some pics. It sits just under the Kooks crossover and just above the G50-52 trans. It mounts to the upper rear A arm mount. You will need to check clearance in this location to see if it will work for you. Parts are available at http://1speedway.com/index.php?route...&product_id=90
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Roger Reid; 03-24-2019 at 11:06 PM.
    Just an old man with a great hobby

  10. #170
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing that, Roger.
    Looks like you have it at the softest setting-Would you modify anything if you had to do it over? Smaller diameter bar?
    Keep the updates coming, Sean! Life has been insanely busy, I will be home only 2 weeks in March then I'll get back into the car. Plus spring has arrived!
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter [email protected]

  11. #171
    Senior member Roger Reid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeman View Post
    Thanks for sharing that, Roger.
    Looks like you have it at the softest setting-Would you modify anything if you had to do it over? Smaller diameter bar?
    Keep the updates coming, Sean! Life has been insanely busy, I will be home only 2 weeks in March then I'll get back into the car. Plus spring has arrived!
    I don't have enough track style driving at the limit to know if I have under or oversteer. The car feels very planted.
    Just an old man with a great hobby

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Reid View Post
    Via pm you were interested in the rear sway bar I made. Here are some pics. It sits just under the Kooks crossover and just above the G50-52 trans. It mounts to the upper rear A arm mount. You will need to check clearance in this location to see if it will work for you. Parts are available at http://1speedway.com/index.php?route...&product_id=90
    Thanks for sharing this Roger, very cool setup and definitely something for me to see if I can incorporate.

    Quote Originally Posted by beeman View Post
    Thanks for sharing that, Roger.
    Looks like you have it at the softest setting-Would you modify anything if you had to do it over? Smaller diameter bar?
    Keep the updates coming, Sean! Life has been insanely busy, I will be home only 2 weeks in March then I'll get back into the car. Plus spring has arrived!
    Will do I got a little bummed over the last week or so, but I'm doing what we all do. Learn from my mistakes, lick my wounds, and get back in the garage.

  13. #173
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    A little bit of an update.

    Been crazy busy with work lately and it looks like things have paid off. Not only has the invention that the team and I came up with passed the Patent Approval Board and we are pushing forward with the lawyers to file it, I also got an unexpected bonus, and just got a promotion. Its great when hard work pays off and your efforts are recognized. This will totally cover the financial loss of the EMS system errors I made, so I've started to lay out a new wiring harness with the vacation day today.

    Here's my current situation


    This new Series 7 EMS from AEM has 129 pins on the ECU to control everything I'm looking to do. I'll have to dissect the harness as it currently stands, integrate the Infinity Box setup, and create the logic inside the ECU.

    Also, want to give a shout out to Beeman for hooking me up with his clock spring that he was no longer going to use. This will allow me to add 2 X 12 position Rotary Switches on the steering wheel to control the sensitivity of the Traction Control and Launch Control parameters on the fly. Since there are plenty of circuits, I may had a couple toggle buttons, we'll seen.

  14. #174
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Electrical Fun!! That's another area I don't think a lot of people realize how much time in involved. Yes, it takes quite a while to physically wire up the car, but before you can do anything at all, you have to have a plan to know what you're doing!!....and that can take a ton of time, especially if you're not running the standard Painless harness and stock crate engine or donor engine harness.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
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  15. #175
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Congrats on the patent application!
    Yeah Shane, I actually enjoy the wiring process, but it's time consuming for sure.
    Sean, do you have a button plate picked out? I couldn't find a good one off the shelf so I made one. The only cool consumer accessible ones are on racing simulator steering wheels.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter [email protected]

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeman View Post
    Congrats on the patent application!
    Yeah Shane, I actually enjoy the wiring process, but it's time consuming for sure.
    Sean, do you have a button plate picked out? I couldn't find a good one off the shelf so I made one. The only cool consumer accessible ones are on racing simulator steering wheels.
    Thanks Dave!!!!

    I'm really looking forward to working through the electrical system. Having an idea in my head of what I want it to do, putting it on paper, and then making it happen is a huge challenge, but I'm loving it so far.

    I looked at a few of the readily available button plates out there, but nothing fits what I'm going for. With the AEM CD-7 Race Dash I'm looking to go with, I need to keep the top part of the steering wheel area open to see the full screen. That limits me to the bottom area to work with, which I'm ok with. I grabbed some thin panel board and will mock up a couple options and see what I like. I may need to invest in a 3D printer for the garage, as this is a perfect time to mock things up as you have. I do have a guy that just made two carbon fiber panels for my boat on his router table, so once I have a good CAD file, he can knock it out for me.

    Here is the panel he did for inside my cabin on the boat. Think of the top screen as an Infinity Box system for a boat, exact same concept with master cells, power cells, and communication cables instead of long runs of wiring harnesses.

    Last edited by Shoeless; 04-20-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  17. #177
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    Hey guys,

    I wanted to take a break from the computer work on planing out the wiring harness and get in the garage and do something on the car. I'm working on laying out the front coolant hoses and have a question. How low does the connection on the driver side have to sit to clear the hood? If I left it as is and didn't trim the 90 deg bend here, it will stick over the sheetmetal in the wheel wells. Do I need to make sure this is below the sheetmetal if I look from driver to passenger side to clear the hood?




  18. #178
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    I trimmed the 90 and it went on just below the level of the sheet metal as shown above, it works just fine that way and will not interfere with the front clip.

  19. #179
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Yes, you will have to trim that back....the elbow can't sit above the sheet metal or it will rub the hood.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
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  20. #180
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    Excellent, thanks James and Shane.

  21. #181

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    Just a FYI, I cut my silicone tubing in a chop saw with an abrasive wheel. To keep the silicone from collapsing and deforming I use a small, short piece of metal tubing that is sized properly to the silicone. Just make sure you don't cut the metal tube when cutting the silicone. The other way I have seen it done nicely is with a band saw along with the internal metal tube support, but I don't have a band saw so no direct experience with that method.
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  22. #182
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    Thanks for the heads up Crash. I tried the fresh razor blade and hose clamp method. Worked pretty good, but you do have to clamp just enough to hold it in place, but not crush the hose.

    I'll need to order a couple more 90 deg bends so I worked on the section I had all the pieces for. I'm pretty happy with the silicone hose approach, a little pricy, but very clean. I'll likely trim back the hose clamps a bit to make them look a little cleaner.




  23. #183
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    You have a high current solenoid in the top of the last photo. Is that for a battery disconnect?

  24. #184
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Looks like the Infinitybox inReserve solenoid.....which does cut power to the entire Infinitybox system (as well as whatever else you hook to it) so it doesn't drain your battery. If you don't use that, the Infinitybox system will drain your battery in about 3 days.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
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    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  25. #185
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    Yup, that's the Infinity Box InReserve battery shut off. Temporarily mounted with zip ties so I can finish off the layout in the front compartment.

  26. #186
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Yup, that's the Infinity Box InReserve battery shut off. Temporarily mounted with zip ties so I can finish off the layout in the front compartment.
    interesting, I was looking into something similar for when the car goes into storage for the winter. I might just put a high amp manual switch in the same spot under the hood.

  27. #187
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    Hey guys,

    I sent a little time this morning in the garage and finished off the front cooling hoses and installed a breather petcock for when I go to fill the cooling system. Everything is now below the wheel well sheet metal and should clear the hood just fine. This looks much cleaner and will function better than the corrugated crap FF supplies. I also ended up pulling the motor this last weekend as I'm not too happy with the insulation I put on the tunnel cooling system tubes. I'm sure it will work great, but it just takes up too much space. So I'll pull those out next, cut off the insulation, and wrap with header wrap and possible another heat type wrap.




  28. #188
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Was the bulk of the tunnel pipe insulation encroaching on something? If I was running my coolant through the tunnel (one of the first decisions I made with my build was to run it outside of the cabin), I'd be applying multiple layers of a ridiculous amount of insulation. The main complaint I see with driving a finished GTM isn't the harsh ride, isn't the deafening noise, isn't the blind spots, isn't the chore of getting in and out. It's the heat off the tunnel.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter [email protected]

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeman View Post
    Was the bulk of the tunnel pipe insulation encroaching on something? If I was running my coolant through the tunnel (one of the first decisions I made with my build was to run it outside of the cabin), I'd be applying multiple layers of a ridiculous amount of insulation. The main complaint I see with driving a finished GTM isn't the harsh ride, isn't the deafening noise, isn't the blind spots, isn't the chore of getting in and out. It's the heat off the tunnel.
    Maybe I'm concerned about running out of space, but should think twice about replacing the insulation I went with. Here is a pic of it. Its a high temp foam based that I picked up after reading someone else's post a while back. Maybe I'll try to keep it on and see if I run into any more issues. Either way I did need to pull the engine to swap the tube locations, as the manual is wrong, and remove the FF couplers now that I'm going with the silicon hoses and reducer in the front and the OEM replacement tubes in the rear that someone found would fit.


  30. #190
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    While the tunnel is tight i thing you should still be able to fit everything with that insulation on it. I took a look at mine and there is a bit of extra room there. (not a ton, but a bit). The insulation might make it hard to secure those lines down with the provided clamps.... im sure you can pick up some larger ones though.

    On a side note your coolant lines look amazing. I am honestly considering removing my working setup (factory style) and replicating your setup. I don't suppose you have a complete list of each hose and coupler that you used?

  31. #191
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    I used ceramic header wrap and covered it with aluminum tape. You can see it is a lot smaller in the picture of how I organized the piping in my tunnel. The reason I used this type of insulation in lieu of foam is if the foam gets too hot, burns or starts to smoke it produces poisonous gas as noted below.

    IMG_1676.jpg

    Fire Hazard of Polyurethane and Other Organic Foam Insulation:
    Thermal decomposition products from polyurethane foam, consist mainly of carbon monoxide, benzene, toluene, oxides of nitrogen, hydrogen cyanide, acetaldehyde, acetone, propene, carbon dioxide, alkenes and water vapor.


    We run into this kind of thing in the refineries where we design and engineer piping systems, thought I would say something as it is always a possibility the foam may get to hot or burn if something leaks and catches fire.

  32. #192
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeman View Post
    Was the bulk of the tunnel pipe insulation encroaching on something? If I was running my coolant through the tunnel (one of the first decisions I made with my build was to run it outside of the cabin), I'd be applying multiple layers of a ridiculous amount of insulation. The main complaint I see with driving a finished GTM isn't the harsh ride, isn't the deafening noise, isn't the blind spots, isn't the chore of getting in and out. It's the heat off the tunnel.
    Agreed! The heat off the tunnel and getting your AC vent hoses sealed up in that top aluminum tunnel panel are going to be the 2 most important areas to focus on to keep the heat out of the cockpit. One thing I've found that seems to be really effective for the tunnel.....since you not only have the 2 main cooling tubes running thru there, but also the heater hoses and AC pressure hoses all giving off heat.....get your 2 main cooling tubes insulated well, then get all of your heater hoses and AC lines ran and then many times, well take some insulation that is essentially just foil-faced bubble wrap and span that across the width of the tunnel covering all of the hoses, and use foil tape to seal the sides of the bubble wrap to the sides of the tunnel and then install our louvered belly pans so that all of that heat is partitioned off from the tunnel and gets vented right out the bottom of the car.
    Shane Vacek
    VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC
    www.vraptorspeedworks.com
    Turn-key GTM, SL-C & Ultima GTR Built to Your Specs!
    Offering a full line of GTM Upgrades and Custom Parts

  33. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Hey guys,

    I sent a little time this morning in the garage and finished off the front cooling hoses and installed a breather petcock for when I go to fill the cooling system. Everything is now below the wheel well sheet metal and should clear the hood just fine. This looks much cleaner and will function better than the corrugated crap FF supplies. I also ended up pulling the motor this last weekend as I'm not too happy with the insulation I put on the tunnel cooling system tubes. I'm sure it will work great, but it just takes up too much space. So I'll pull those out next, cut off the insulation, and wrap with header wrap and possible another heat type wrap.


    It looks good, but just wondering why you used silicone hose in the straight sections? If you had used aluminum tubing with beaded ends you could have saved on the silicone costs, the adapter costs, and used half as many hose clamps.
    www.myraceshop.com

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  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash View Post
    It looks good, but just wondering why you used silicone hose in the straight sections? If you had used aluminum tubing with beaded ends you could have saved on the silicone costs, the adapter costs, and used half as many hose clamps.
    Just a preference. I kicked around the idea of getting straight sections of aluminum tubing to cut down on the items you mentioned (connectors & hose clamps), but just decided to go with all black silicone tubing for looks.

  35. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC View Post
    Agreed! The heat off the tunnel and getting your AC vent hoses sealed up in that top aluminum tunnel panel are going to be the 2 most important areas to focus on to keep the heat out of the cockpit. One thing I've found that seems to be really effective for the tunnel.....since you not only have the 2 main cooling tubes running thru there, but also the heater hoses and AC pressure hoses all giving off heat.....get your 2 main cooling tubes insulated well, then get all of your heater hoses and AC lines ran and then many times, well take some insulation that is essentially just foil-faced bubble wrap and span that across the width of the tunnel covering all of the hoses, and use foil tape to seal the sides of the bubble wrap to the sides of the tunnel and then install our louvered belly pans so that all of that heat is partitioned off from the tunnel and gets vented right out the bottom of the car.
    Thanks for the input Shane!! I like the idea of the foil faced bubble wrap and tape to seal this all completely off.

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanderson1 View Post
    While the tunnel is tight i thing you should still be able to fit everything with that insulation on it. I took a look at mine and there is a bit of extra room there. (not a ton, but a bit). The insulation might make it hard to secure those lines down with the provided clamps.... im sure you can pick up some larger ones though.

    On a side note your coolant lines look amazing. I am honestly considering removing my working setup (factory style) and replicating your setup. I don't suppose you have a complete list of each hose and coupler that you used?
    Hey tanderson,

    Here is what I bought:
    2 x 3ft sections - Could likely get smaller 1 ft sections looking back at it, but I don't know how much extra I need for where the tubes rest in the tunnel
    4 x 4" 90 degree bend
    1 x 45 deg bend
    1 x 1.5" to 1.25" reducer
    9 x 1.5" couplers
    1 smaller hose clamp for the 1.25" section of the reducer
    20 x hose clamps for 1.5" coupling sections

    Took a little planning, but I"m very happy with the end product. As Crash mentioned, you can go with small aluminum tube sections with rolled ends, but I decided I wanted all black hose for looks.
    Last edited by Shoeless; 05-20-2019 at 05:11 PM.

  37. #197
    Senior Member tanderson1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Hey tanderson,

    Here is what I bought:
    2 x 3ft sections - Could likely get smaller 1 ft sections looking back at it, but I don't know how much extra I need for where the tubes rest in the tunnel
    4 x 4" 90 degree bend
    1 x 45 deg bend
    1 x 1.5" to 1.25" reducer
    9 x 1.5" couplers
    1 smaller hose clamp for the 1.25" section of the reducer
    20 x hose clamps for 1.5" coupling sections

    Took a little planning, but I"m very happy with the end product. As Crash mentioned, you can go with small aluminum tube sections with rolled ends, but I decided I wanted all black hose for looks.
    Great thanks, 2 more questions,
    1. Did you order them online? if so from where, i might just buy them from the same place.
    2. You also mentioned that you found factory hoses that work for the engine side, do you have the hose number for that or know what vehicle they come off of?


    Yours look great, i think i would like to set them up just like that.

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  39. #198
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    Looks good and kind of unique in a way. Sorry for the bold in my post I lifted the wording from one of my specification sheets and it came our bold, did not look that way when typing message but when posted was bold.

  40. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfr58 View Post
    Looks good and kind of unique in a way. Sorry for the bold in my post I lifted the wording from one of my specification sheets and it came our bold, did not look that way when typing message but when posted was bold.
    That's what I was going for, a little different look. No worries on the bold

  41. #200
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanderson1 View Post
    Great thanks, 2 more questions,
    1. Did you order them online? if so from where, i might just buy them from the same place.
    2. You also mentioned that you found factory hoses that work for the engine side, do you have the hose number for that or know what vehicle they come off of?


    Yours look great, i think i would like to set them up just like that.
    1. I got all the silicone hose setup stuff from https://www.pegasusautoracing.com and you are looking to spend around $300 for everything.
    2. AC delco 26030x & 26022x or Gates 20893 & 20827. I found these from some older posts and they are very price effective when compared to the front hose setup.

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