Shoeless GTM #501 Here we go!!!

[Shoeless]

Thanks James!!!!

I'm moving on more to the electrical side of things. I'll be pulling all the sensors and coils off the engine so I can solder, pot, and boot to a Deutsch AS connectors. More on that in the other thread. I've started with running the large gauge battery cable to the rear passenger compartment behind the fuel tank. My thought is that I wanted to run the positive to a distribution post here and then run a section to the starter. Also running a ground wire from a distribution post to the exact location the engine is grounded to the frame. I can then pull power and ground from these two spots for the power distribution block that feeds the ECU.

As a note, I'm follow as much star point earthing as possible with this approach.

Do you guys see any issues putting these distro blocks here? They already clear the tank so no issue there.

[crash]

I am a believer in using as few breaks as possible on the large wires, especially the ones to the starter as the draw is HUGE during startup. The way I have done this in the past is to run the positive directly to the starter and then pull a lead off the starter post and run it back to a distribution block for other power needs or run a separate line directly from the battery for the other requirements, depending on where the battery, starter and needs are located.

[Shoeless]

I am a believer in using as few breaks as possible on the large wires, especially the ones to the starter as the draw is HUGE during startup. The way I have done this in the past is to run the positive directly to the starter and then pull a lead off the starter post and run it back to a distribution block for other power needs or run a separate line directly from the battery for the other requirements, depending on where the battery, starter and needs are located.

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I'll go mock something up in line with this and see what lugs and wire I may need to order up from our good friends at Prowire.

I also like this better as I haven't been able to find a nice lug cover that would be appropriate to cover what I have in the pics above.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I would agree with Crash on that one....and the lead going to a distribution block to feed other stuff won't have to be nearly that large unless you are planning on a ton of high-load accessories that might all be running simultaneously? IMO, this is where it's easy to get carried away. I worked on a customer car years ago that the owner had completed much of the beginning stages of the wiring. They had 5 separate fuse blocks on the car...with each fuse block fed from a "master fuse"....and the master fuses added up to something like 500 amps. Other than the AC blower motor, cooling fans and power windows, there's just not all that much on these cars that needs loads of amps to it.

[Shoeless]

Good lord that's insane.

I definitely won't be pulling anything near that at the rear of the car. I've actually got a section of 4 ga wire that I'll use to feed the power distribution block and even that is more that what I'll really need. I've ran the numbers on the ECU and what it will be controlling and taken some recommendations from schematics that AEM provides and it will get all of its power from 2 x 10 ga wires. Using the combined wire calculator below says 2 x 10ga wires = 1x 7ga., so 4 is WAY safe for me and provides and expansion capabilities that may be needed.

https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wi...tor_ep_42.html

[crash]

I don't know how you are wiring things, but be aware that the injectors and the coils take a significant load. IIRC I had to use 30 amp fuses on EACH bank of coils and 20 amp fuses for EACH side of injectors. Something I wasn't expecting and I started out with 10 amp fuses on each of those.

[Shoeless]

I don't know how you are wiring things, but be aware that the injectors and the coils take a significant load. IIRC I had to use 30 amp fuses on EACH bank of coils and 20 amp fuses for EACH side of injectors. Something I wasn't expecting and I started out with 10 amp fuses on each of those.

Good lord, that sounds excessive, but obviously depends on what coils and injectors you are using.

Just referred back to my wiring diagram, I've got 30 amp fuses for each bank of both coils and injectors. I modeled my circuit design off the Plug and Play harness that AEM offers for the 24X LS engine setup and obviously modified my schematic to fit my needs and modifying it to 58X timing.

What coils and injectors are you using?

[crash]

Stock LS3 crate engine. I would estimate about 2016 vintage.

If you are using a plug and play part of an existing harness then those circuits should be good, as it sounds like you are. Again, I just found it astounding that those areas needed so much power when building a harness. I wasn't expecting that. Sounds like you weren't either, so typing well spent.

[Shoeless]

Yea, I'm somewhat copying the schematic that I will then build all from scratch, but modified to meet my needs. When I first started looking into this I definitely was thrown off that I had to have two separate banks of power supply for the motor, but I should have it covered.

Any and all input is always appreciated. I'll never know if I'm missing something until someone points it out to me or I make a dangerous mistake on my build

[Shoeless]

I was able to sneak into the garage this afternoon after some work meetings to do some more electrical layout work. I got the GEP Fuse and Relay box cut into the rear passenger ledge next to motor and then worked on the front power distribution. I went to install the Braille battery last week, but discovered the aluminum tray was too low and the battery would hit the frame. So I took some 1/4" steel flat stock and used that to raise the bottom tray up a bit. The battery is now installed and I can start to work on running more of the cables. Thankfully I can still squeeze my hand in there to open and close the heater core cutoff I added. I dropped another order for more of the larger gauge battery lugs and unfortunately a couple of the ones I need are on backorder with no estimated date of arrival. I guess I'll just work around that for now.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Looking like some good progress! Just out of curiosity, how close do those battery post lugs come to the alum bracket holding the battery down? From the photos, it looks pretty scary?

[Shoeless]

Looking like some good progress! Just out of curiosity, how close do those battery post lugs come to the alum bracket holding the battery down? From the photos, it looks pretty scary?

I can say not 100% ideal in the way I installed the posts (I can do either side or top of the battery), but if I swap it to the top of the battery, it would hit the steering column.

The nice thing is the Braille posts are tapered and have special lugs that are tapered to match the posts (both + and - are different size tapers). As it sits there in the pic it is about a .200" gap between the + post and the aluminum bracket. I can probably put some rubber insulation in between there to help me sleep better at night.

Do you think this is too close knowing its tapered and will be locked down and won't slide any closer to the aluminum bracket?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I did just install one of these same batteries on the last build we did here....they do have some nice options for connections....tapped hole, tapered posts and other tapped holes on the sides. Yeah....I guess if it were me, I would probably get some sheet rubber and cut some grommets/insulators to put in between the cable end and battery bracket for the + post. Maybe cut the sheet rubber to shape and bond it right to the aluminum in that area so it looks neat?

[Shoeless]

That's my thought too. I went out and stared at it for a while this morning to see if there was any way I could move the battery to then rotate the post, but any idea I came up with had a limitation with it (cooling hoses, brake lines, riv nuts hitting the frame).

I think I'll be good with rubber insulation approach.

[Shoeless]

Let me start this post by giving a huge shout out to Shane. Not only has he given myself and many others support on the forums here, but he has also taken time over his weekends to help guide me and give feedback on issues with my build. This weekend was one of those weekends.

I was to the point that I needed to set the clutch stop on my build and would have to pull on my wife and a buddy for the task. First step was to shift the Mendy transaxle into gear so we could see where the clutch would engage/disengage. Talking with Ian he mentioned that I can accomplish this by manually turning the engine over and shifting into gear. So I remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over manually. Then I hear this intermittent noise from the back passenger side of the car. Something is rubbing.

I decide to stop and wait for my buddy to make it over as I can't investigate and turn the motor over at the same time. Once he shows up, I slide under the rear of the car and sure enough something is hitting the starter. I pull the starter and sure enough I have some rubbing going on. At this point all I could think was I'm about to have to tear everything completely apart to diagnose further.



Once I pulled the starter, we were able to accomplish the task of confirming no other rubbing and setting the clutch stop. From here I posted a couple pics on FB and Shane recommends a couple things to check out. I investigate further and the flywheel runout appears ok (i've got some other inspection tools on order to 100% confirm this) and then I notice something. The Clutch Plate bolts seem to stick out past the flywheel quite a bit and sure enough they have little shavings of aluminum on them. I have found the culprit of the intermittent rub.



My clutch plate bolts measure about 1.185" and are clearly too long. A little research points me to ARP 134-2201 that are 1" long. So my plan is to order these up, swap them out one by one and then torque them down following the 3 step torque process while manually rotating the motor.

Thanks for all your help Shane, even on a weekend!!!

And keeping in good spirits I took a pic of the wifey in the car helping me. Just note, she is not a fan of the GTM LOL.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

No problem at all....glad I could help. It's always good when you can fix things and not have to tear everything apart to do it!! I had a similar problem on the last GTM I worked on here.....tried to turn the engine over by hand and it was extremely difficult.....pulled out all of the spark plugs and that helped, but still didn't feel right. This was with a G50 trans. Peeked into the bellhousing and it looked like the OD of the PP was rubbing on something. I had never ran into that before and finally found a "corner" of the casting of the bellhousing that was sticking out and rubbing on the PP. I had to unbolt the trans and just move back about 1/2" and sneak a dremel carbide in there to grind the corner down....and was very thankful I didn't have to pull everything apart!!

[RoadRacer]

And keeping in good spirits I took a pic of the wifey in the car helping me. Just note, she is not a fan of the GTM LOL.

You think? LOL

[Shoeless]

You think? LOL

HAHA yea she is not a fan of Corvettes so when she heard the connection of the donor parts, she was already not a fan. She really doesn't like the idea of being so low to the ground. Although she did a heck of a job helping me set the clutch stop.

So here's the deal I have with her to actually get her in the GTM once it's finished, at least for one date . I need to get a tuxedo and her a similarly fancy dress and we will then venture down to Palm Beach and go to brunch at The Breakers. For those not familiar, that is about the highest end place you can go out for dinners, brunch, or have a wedding in the area. I agreed to these terms, but also told her I may pay for a photographer to follow us around and get some pictures of us and the GTM around Jupiter and Palm Beach areas.

I figure that would be a fitting way to debut Shoeless GTM.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

It will probably be worth the entertainment value to her to see you attempt to get in and out of the car in a tux without breaking some seams out!

[Shoeless]

It will probably be worth the entertainment value to her to see you attempt to get in and out of the car in a tux without breaking some seams out!

HAHA that's the darn truth. This will either be a perfect day to unveil the GTM or full of laughs trying to get in and out of the damn thing in a tux.

[beeman]

And keeping in good spirits I took a pic of the wifey in the car helping me. Just note, she is not a fan of the GTM LOL.

Our wives certainly put up with our obsessions!
Reminds me of a GTM story with my wife sitting exactly where your wife is in that picture. It came time to bleed the brakes so I could get an alignment, so I asked her to come out to the shop to help "just for 10 minutes" to pump the pedal while I bleed each corner. I didn't have a seat in the car yet, so she was sitting on the floor of the car. I didn't pay attention to the fact that I had only pushed the steering wheel onto the splines, and didn't put the nut on since I had it on/off so much. As the pedal firmed up, she was really leaning into the pedal, pulling on the steering wheel. All of a sudden, the steering wheel pops off, and she goes rolling back and bonked her head pretty hard on the firewall. After a 15 minute headache break, she was nice enough to help me finish bleeding the brakes...

[Shoeless]

Our wives certainly put up with our obsessions!

That's an understatement for sure!!!

Glad to hear she helped finish bleeding the brakes LOL. If that happened to my wife, it would have been the complete end to her ever helping me again. I'll have to keep this in mind when I'm giving her instructions on how to help me out. Sometimes its crystal clear in my head what I need her to help with, but this is a great reminder to give her additional clarity.

[RoadRacer]

It's just the funniest wife picture ever. Sums the whole thing up. I still can't help laughing when I see it.

[crash]

That steering wheel thing is no joke. This should be a warning/lesson to everyone...make sure the steering wheel is either not on the shaft, or secured properly. I have seen people about knock themselves out by hitting themselves with an unsecured steering wheel. I have seen busted lips, and if the wheel comes off after the car is moving it gets REALLY interesting. As a general rule I always ALWAYS pull on the wheel to make sure it is properly engaged on the race car before moving the car by pulling back firmly towards me right after push on the wheel with the quick release.

[SteveE]

At least she will come out to the garage and assist you. Mine only goes in the garage to get in her car to go out, I have to wait for friend to come over to assist me when I need it.

[Shoeless]

That steering wheel thing is no joke. This should be a warning/lesson to everyone...make sure the steering wheel is either not on the shaft, or secured properly. I have seen people about knock themselves out by hitting themselves with an unsecured steering wheel. I have seen busted lips, and if the wheel comes off after the car is moving it gets REALLY interesting. As a general rule I always ALWAYS pull on the wheel to make sure it is properly engaged on the race car before moving the car by pulling back firmly towards me right after push on the wheel with the quick release.

Great point!! I find myself doing similarly for nearly everything on the car. If I'm putting it on, its getting torqued down securely, and then mostly torque painted. Plenty of times having to clean off torque paint and redoing it, but at least I know if its on the car, than its secure.

At least she will come out to the garage and assist you. Mine only goes in the garage to get in her car to go out, I have to wait for friend to come over to assist me when I need it.

Oh I had to beg for this one LOL. There is a running joke in our house that the time I gave her taking dancing lessons for our wedding will go towards the hours she has to help me on the car. So far I have about 6.5 hours left on credit HAHAHA

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That steering wheel thing is no joke. This should be a warning/lesson to everyone...make sure the steering wheel is either not on the shaft, or secured properly. I have seen people about knock themselves out by hitting themselves with an unsecured steering wheel. I have seen busted lips, and if the wheel comes off after the car is moving it gets REALLY interesting. As a general rule I always ALWAYS pull on the wheel to make sure it is properly engaged on the race car before moving the car by pulling back firmly towards me right after push on the wheel with the quick release.

Neat story I might as well share at this point. Fresh out of auto tech school, I got a job as a tech at a Ford dealership. As the low man on the totem pole, I usually got stuck with all of the used car inspections. The dealership got in an old International Scout on trade, so they gave me the work order to inspect it. I pull the thing into the shop and my normal practice was to open the door and lean out and look under the car as I drove over the hoist so that I could position the car properly to get all of the lift arms positioned on the chassis. I opened the door of the Scout, leaned out to look underneath to get it into position....and before I know what happened, I'm laying on the floor with the steering wheel in my hand and the Scout has my tool box pinned up against the wall.....with a dozen other techs looking at me, wondering what in the hell just happened.

[Shoeless]

Neat story I might as well share at this point. Fresh out of auto tech school, I got a job as a tech at a Ford dealership. As the low man on the totem pole, I usually got stuck with all of the used car inspections. The dealership got in an old International Scout on trade, so they gave me the work order to inspect it. I pull the thing into the shop and my normal practice was to open the door and lean out and look under the car as I drove over the hoist so that I could position the car properly to get all of the lift arms positioned on the chassis. I opened the door of the Scout, leaned out to look underneath to get it into position....and before I know what happened, I'm laying on the floor with the steering wheel in my hand and the Scout has my tool box pinned up against the wall.....with a dozen other techs looking at me, wondering what in the hell just happened.

Oh DAMN!!!!

[jamesfr58]

Ok I got a wife story, only got her into the car once so far but don't have a picture. When we first unpacked the original cobra seats I had them just sitting in the car. She came out to the shop to to see what I was doing and I showed her the cobra seats. Ask her if she wanted to sit in seat to see how it felt, so she climbed inside and sat down on in the seat. Then commenced to complain about the high bolsters and the way she felt the seat was to tight, she really did no like the high bolsters and informed me she would not be riding a whole lot unless I changed the seats to something more comfortable. That set me on the path to find different seats that would fit, which I finally go accomplished after buying 2 sets of seats. Now for the good or bad part, depending on how you look at it, she tried to get out of the seat and car, well that was not going so good (she has bad hip needs replacement) so I went over to help and the more I tried to help the funnier it got.....although she did not think so. Finally managed to help her out quit laughing and she has never tried it again. But she did try the different seats and said they work better, they were on the ground not in the car and told me she would sit in these seats, so will have to wait till later to see how she does getting in and out now..... and got hip fixed so hopefully things will me better next time and I am sure if I don't start laughing again everything will be good again I hope.

[Shoeless]

HAHAHA that’s a good one James. I’m loving the comic relief we are bringing to my build thread. Excellent stories and I feel this is what it’s all about. Whether we are making memories while building or looking forward to making memories when they are done, I’m thoroughly enjoying the journey and sharing stories with the fellow builders here.

[beeman]

Pretty funny stuff, James!
Our poor wives...Surely they knew what they were getting into?

[Shoeless]

Made some more progress over the last couple days. I received the replacement shorter MRP Clutch Plate bolts and got those installed this morning. All indications point towards my issue being addressed. Still need to bolt the starter back in there and turn the motor over to confirm. I also got in a few battery cable lugs and was able to finish up a few more cables for power and ground distribution.

The highlight of my weekend was getting to mock up the Kooks Exhaust for the first time. I cut the stands as instructed by Shane's website pics and had my local welder knock them out. I tried installing the longer non-cat tube on the driver side first, but didn't look like it would line up, so I swapped it to the passenger side. Looks like everything is going to fit up nicely here. Maybe some more washers on the rear bolts to get the height right to the openings in the body, but I'll have to wait til I get the body back on to check on this. I didn't tighten everything down just yet as I wanted to make sure everything would at least go together.

Tomorrow is a fishing day with the wife. Weather looks pretty good so wish us luck

[jamesfr58]

Looking good, and have fun fishing. Still to cool up here to really start fishing but looking forward to getting boat in water and fishing myself but need for weather to get up into the 70s and it as pretty much stayed in the high 50s so fish still sluggish and not moving very much, hopefully that will change soon.

[Shoeless]

Hey guys, I'm working on planning out the final plumbing of the motor and I want to bounce this plan off the brain trust. My setup is an LS3 motor that will be tuned via speed density, so no need for an airflow meter or critically where the intake air for the following ports comes from, but here is my plan. Please let me know what you guys think before I go source all the hoses and fittings.

Here's what I'm thinking:
Connector Port 1 to Port 3 (possible air oil separator between)
Connect Port 2 to port on fresh air intake
Port 4 is for a brake booster - Keep blocked off
Port 5 vacuum port that is already blocked
Port 6 - Keep blocked off
Port 7 - Keep blocked off

Pic 1 Driver side of motor
Port 1 - On intake behind the throttle body
Port 2 - Drivers side valve cover



Pic 2 Front of motor pic from passenger side
Port 3 - Valley cover port
Port 4 - Brake booster
Port 5 - Vacuum port


Pic 3 Passenger side of motor
Port 6 - Passenger side valve cover
Port 7 - Not sure what this is

[Samurai41]

Here’s something helpful.
FFE4E472-A2F3-4A38-8A56-668894EBD2AC.jpeg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Someone here posted a while ago that the hose that connects 1 and 3 should have a 2.5mm orifice installed in the hose. I've been doing that by just drilling a 2.5mm hole thru a chunk of aluminum round stock that fits snug inside the hose but is too big to fit thru the hose barb on the intake or valley cover.

[Shoeless]

Someone here posted a while ago that the hose that connects 1 and 3 should have a 2.5mm orifice installed in the hose. I've been doing that by just drilling a 2.5mm hole thru a chunk of aluminum round stock that fits snug inside the hose but is too big to fit thru the hose barb on the intake or valley cover.

That's interesting.

I really don't like the search feature on this site, or I just haven't figured it out. Any time I search it pulls up entire posts that may have 10, 20, 30+ pages to sift through.

[jamesfr58]

Sean,

This is one I had on PVC systems for LS3, not sure if it will help but matches the outlets you showed above.

Doc2.jpg

[Shoeless]

Thanks for the reply James!! I came across a lot of these similar looking schematics. I was even able to find the post Shane referenced about the 2.5mm orifice.

I dropped a note back to Johnny at Blueprint to get some input from him as well as I came across some documentation that some of the valley cover tubes may already have this orifice in it.

We'll get this all figured out. I just don't want to order up a bunch of braided hose and fittings for it to not work properly.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I guess I should have mentioned in my previous post....that yes, I do believe that you are correct on everything you had outlined in post #434. The orifice is the only thing I could think of to add to what you already posted.