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Thread: Black&Copper - 33 Hot Rod #1028

  1. #121
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    When fitting body parts i like to have all parts bolted down so there is no change.

  2. #122
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallace18 View Post
    After building over 10 of these FFR kits I understand how you like the look of 1/8" gaps. They will not work in the long run due to flex in the body and panels. You will end up with chipped paint and fiberglass, IMO. 3/16" is the minimum suggest by FFR for a reason. But who knows maybe you will prove us wrong. Just my 2 cents worth. Car is coming along very nice.
    I appreciate the input as i am not sure how the final result of the car will look like with larger gaps. Did you start with 3/16" gaps then through priming and paint it ended up to be around 1/8" to 5/32"?? If that's the case I can see how starting with a fiberglassed edge gap at 3/16" will gap down once you pile all the layers on, will await your experienced opinion before trimming further, I really appreciate the input! TY!

  3. #123
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1932 View Post
    When fitting body parts i like to have all parts bolted down so there is no change.
    Agreed, after reading Wallace's suggestion I think I will leave the gap at 1/8" and then lock it all in then even up the gp to 3/16" before paint, I'll wait on his experienced suggestion. THX!

  4. #124
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    Yes, it was 3/16" before paint. Even then we still had some rubbing in flex areas. 99% of folks used to gaps on steel cars get upset hearing about 3/16" gaps. Fiberglass kit cars IMO are a much different animal. I am not saying you can't do 1/8", just that you will most likely not like the end result. Best of luck. here is a photo of 3/16" gaps on a 33.

    IMG_2276.JPG

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  6. #125
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallace18 View Post
    Yes, it was 3/16" before paint. Even then we still had some rubbing in flex areas. 99% of folks used to gaps on steel cars get upset hearing about 3/16" gaps. Fiberglass kit cars IMO are a much different animal. I am not saying you can't do 1/8", just that you will most likely not like the end result. Best of luck. here is a photo of 3/16" gaps on a 33.

    IMG_2276.JPG
    Advice well taken and much appreciated!!! Thank you!

  7. #126
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So I ran into a snag yesterday happening with my build as it pertains to the drivers side door. I have fit the passenger side door as I thought that if I had to cleanup and make corrections that inside that door (for the hinge holes) would not be open as much so it would not be as apparent, I have added a few pictures of that door and the only issue I have is the gapping from body to door panel is off once aligned to the face of the body, no biggie as I have seen this in posts and kind of expected it. See attached photos marked passenger door.
    20180527_145856 - Passenger door fitment.jpg 20180530_222727 - Passenger Door after fitted.jpg

    I went ahead and started on the driver side door taking what I had learned from the passenger side and expected that it would go at least as well, but cleaner cuts. The gapping went well but as I started to get to the final gaps I noticed that the bottom left corner of the door (looking at it from the outside) was way off (1/2" if I align the other three points) and away from the body. So I started looking and tried to see if there was anything that I screwed up and could not see anything that was apparent. To be honest I am stumped other then it may be possible that the door somehow got warped during the gluing process as the outer shell and the inner shell dont really look the same as the passenger side door. I don't want to cut the door to try and twist it as I am worried that it will affect the internal door frame as well as the power windows etc... So I really need anyone who ran into this help and input on this one. I am trying to have this door and the trunk gapped by the end of this week so I can move on to everything north of the firewall this weekend. I am in a groove now to get this thing fit, bolted up and the disassembled to get it out to have a coat of HOK Polyester primer applied so I can start all over re-assembling it for final fairing!
    20180530_222620 - Drivers Door after fitted - Gapped one-eigth bt proud of body close to half-in.jpg Drivers Door after fitted - Gapped one-eighth bt proud of body close to half-inch with other 3 points fitted
    20180530_222629 - Drivers door top of door butted to the body, no play like other side.jpg Drivers door top of door butted to the body, no play like other side
    20180530_222645 - Drivers Door after fitted - Gapped one-eigth bt proud of body close to half-in.jpg Drivers Door after fitted - Gapped one-eighth bt proud of body close to half-inch with other 3 points fitted
    20180530_222720 - Drivers Door after fitted - Good 3 spots not bottom left of door.jpg Drivers Door after fitted - Good 3 spots not bottom left of door

    As always any input and help is deeply appreciated.

  8. #127
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    I set beltline first then three corners with one corner in (front lower PS, rear lower DS) then fiberglassed the low corners out. For me i had to set beltline first and gap from their, top of DS door way low, going to redo the work i did when windows go in.
    Post 225

  9. #128
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1932 View Post
    I set beltline first then three corners with one corner in (front lower PS, rear lower DS) then fiberglassed the low corners out. For me i had to set beltline first and gap from their, top of DS door way low, going to redo the work i did when windows go in.
    Post 225
    So in the end you lined it up more on the front on the DS then dealt with it on the back end of the DS as far as I can tell from your from Post 225. I have been using the belt line to start all the alignments as well so I guess there will be a lot more "aligning" to be done tonight. I pinged FFR so it will be curious what they say as well.

    It's interesting how the Hot Rod fitment compares to the MkIV since we have only 10% of the cars they have out there. I understand their mold set has been replaced a couple times allowing them opportunity to "fix" items like this, future builders will benefit from our correction!!!

    Thx for the help!

    Andreas
    Last edited by AJT '33; 05-31-2018 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #129
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So I received the recommendation back from FFR as such "...for the door try loosening the door shell from the frame and rack it or twist it to see if you can get the gap closer. It will take more muscle than you think. If you still can’t get it straight you can actually tap threads into the frame ¼” -20 and use some button head bolts to adjust the body in and out. Once you get that spaced you can put shims between the body and the frame.".
    So based on that recommendation and also the feedback I received from the Facebook FFR 33 Family of builders, I may do a little bit of everything, I will move the body at the front of the door outward a bit but not too much otherwise it will create a gap at the firewall, there's a fine line there. I will also move it in so the front is as flush as possible as suggested below and hopefully I will have the rear of the door "in" from the body face of which I can do the reverse of the front where i would add material to the back end in this case.

    Should be an interesting night tonight to see what combination will fix the door, maybe fix the gap alignment at the from of the body where it connects to the front fiberglass lip. Most likely be putting it back on the lift to be able to move it up and down easier then sit it on the ground for final alignments so its sitting the way it would when running.

  11. #130
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    When moving body , look at all parts so not to make other problems and so you can bolt it down.

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  13. #131
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    I had similar issues, but not quite as bad. The drivers side mold is definitely off. Heed Tom's advice and try to keep as much work as possible on the door and not the body. Get some big clamps, ratchet straps, and wood blocks. Park the drivers side sunny side south. Go out in the morning and ratchet it down. In the afternoon ratchet it down some more. Continue as necessary. Leave it set in the sun a few days. When you release the clamps you'll be half way there.

    Enjoy...

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  15. #132
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Was wondering if anyone has a template, either Jpeg or PDF of the V8 symbol you see on some original vintage Fords and 33's? I have a special feature I want to add to my car and need to have it made to a specific size to machine or have it hand fabricated. If someone has a 3D CAD Model or a site in which i can buy one if its the right size, that would even be better. Here is an image of what I am looking for, as always any help is deeply appreciated!!!
    v8.gif Ford V8 Emblum - 5.jpg Ford V8 Emblum - 1.jpg

  16. #133
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Been a while since I posted as I am "playing" with the Doors, Trunk Lid, Hood etc... Did come upon a problem I have seen some people have posted about as it pertains to the trunk lid. In my case the top and bottom line up flush with the body but if it just sits there the middle is up a good 3/8". If I push it down it does sit down and sits nice all around with just a little bit of force. Really would hate to cut the ribs on the underside of the deck but if that the case then so be it. I am also seriously considering fabricating a crown support that once attached would pull the middle down, I would attach it with Rivnuts, probably only need to have five per brace. Thoughts?? THX!!
    20180621_192408 Trunk lid fitment gaps.jpg 20180621_192335 Trunk Lid Sitting proud 1.jpg 20180621_192338 Trunk Lid Sitting proud 2.jpg 20180621_192432 Trunk Lid Sitting proud 3.jpg 20180621_192456 Trunk Lid Sitting flush on corners 1.jpg 20180621_192501 Trunk Lid Sitting flush on corners 2.jpg

  17. #134
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    If you have time you may be able to get away with a temporary crown support with clamps and setting the lid out in the sun a couple weeks to "relax". Not sure with glass if it works better to put the short side towards the sun or just flip it every days to "cook " evenly. Some of the guys have made extensive bracing in the lid to get it shaped.

  18. #135
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    If you have time you may be able to get away with a temporary crown support with clamps and setting the lid out in the sun a couple weeks to "relax". Not sure with glass if it works better to put the short side towards the sun or just flip it every days to "cook " evenly. Some of the guys have made extensive bracing in the lid to get it shaped.
    Well got in touch with FFR and they are shipping me a new trunk lid. As always they step up to the plate and make it right.

    Will be working on the body and aligning it such that I can make sure that I can get it to primer in the upcoming couple weeks and ready for paint. Will be interesting as once I have the whole car completely together in primer I will be getting an inspection made to obtain my VIN plate, that will be a BIG step to getting this thing plated!!

  19. #136
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Got a nice Canada Day gift today!! Received my new shifter ball for the toy, its going to look great!! Goes well with my Black and Copper theme.
    20180701_130041.jpg

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  21. #137
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Putty, sand, fit, putty, sand refit, repeat.... is basically the last close to three weeks. Now I know why I haven't done bodywork since my last car I reworked! Regardless it's a nice refresher even in this 100 degree heatwave we're having up here! looking forward to it breaking this weekend, have cut my catalyst in half and still flashing way too soon. At least I don't have to wait on it! Got the top fitted, the bottom lip built up and rough faired in. Now to do some major sanding and fairing to get those ripples and small hollows out of the top. 20180703_200901.jpg 20180703_200830.jpg 20180703_200841.jpg 20180703_200907.jpg 20180703_222927.jpg 20180703_222920.jpg 20180703_222908.jpg

  22. #138

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    Love the TV in the garage idea
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  23. #139
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRacer View Post
    Love the TV in the garage idea
    It's great with the sound system. Have two 1000 watt speakers as well so I can rock it up when I need a lift to get me going!!😁

  24. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    Was wondering if anyone has a template, either Jpeg or PDF of the V8 symbol you see on some original vintage Fords and 33's? I have a special feature I want to add to my car and need to have it made to a specific size to machine or have it hand fabricated. If someone has a 3D CAD Model or a site in which i can buy one if its the right size, that would even be better. Here is an image of what I am looking for, as always any help is deeply appreciated!!!
    v8.gif Ford V8 Emblum - 5.jpg Ford V8 Emblum - 1.jpg
    Try these guys: https://www.trimparts.com
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  26. #141
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Need to find a creative method that I can clip a windshield sprayer onto the edge of the hood so I don't need (or want) any holes in the hood or the body in front of the windshield, then the hose can run down the inside of the hood as cleanly as possible. Pump and reservoir will still be in the trunk, if anyone then please tell me!!

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  28. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    Need to find a creative method that I can clip a windshield sprayer onto the edge of the hood so I don't need (or want) any holes in the hood or the body in front of the windshield, then the hose can run down the inside of the hood as cleanly as possible. Pump and reservoir will still be in the trunk, if anyone then please tell me!!
    Check out this concept:

    https://www.automotiveworld.com/news...driving-safer/

    https://www.topgear.com.ph/news/tech...t-wiper-system
    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754
    (Most viewed Roadster build thread on this forum!)

    Delivered: 6/17/2017
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  30. #143
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Progress again

    After a lot of on and off and taking care of my wife who had a scare and ended up in the hospital, I'm able to get back going and make some progress yesterday and today. Trunk lid fit and faired, hard top fit faired and sanded, and the front bottom lip fit with only trimming st the edge of where it fits to the front grill. Got the hood setup and tight fit the the grill as well, a very productive evenings and yesterday! I can finally see the possibility of getting the base polyester primer from House of Kolor applied to get it all back together for a final fit! Heres only a few pics.
    20180715_110659.jpg20180714_221130.jpg20180715_110643.jpg20180714_210117.jpg20180714_204430.jpg20180714_194446.jpg

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  32. #144
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    You are making great progress, sorry to hear about your wife. I hope everything continues to progress smoothly.

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  34. #145
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well progress is still happening, will be attending the Syracuse Nationals this Saturday and add to the "Wish List". I piked up my next addition to the car for when i will be assembling it hopefully in the next few weeks. I bought the same Dash panel that Bill Price had installed in his car Ethyl however i base coated it with Burnt Copper and then had it Hydro Dipped and clear coated. he end result far surpassed what i was hoping for!! In low light you can see that there is some type of gear there, however when in full sun it really pops and the details jump out at you!! Here are just a few of the pictures that I took this morning.
    20180720_070454.jpg 20180720_070506.jpg 20180720_070600.jpg 20180720_070625.jpg 20180720_070614.jpg 20180720_070635.jpg 20180720_070621.jpg
    I cant wait to see what this will look like mounted over a satin black dash!!

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  36. #146
    Member Lancaster Lad's Avatar
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    AJT '33
    The dash insert looks fantastic. Must have been fun to get that gear centered with the
    4 gauge cluster.
    MKIV 8851 Complete LS3 376/480 4L70e Auto 2015 IRS 15" Wheels Rear Exhaust

    Ordered 2/25/16 Delivered 3/26/16 Still building 1/1/22

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  38. #147
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    That dash panel is absolutely stunning!

    By the way, would you mind sharing the supplier?
    Last edited by FF33rod; 07-20-2018 at 01:48 PM.

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  40. #148
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    Think this is an awesome job. I love the dash piece, the execution, the way it pops in the light. fabulous job.

  41. #149
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF33rod View Post
    That dash panel is absolutely stunning!

    By the way, would you mind sharing the supplier?
    I was referred by Bill Price, we bought it at http://www.jbmicrofinish.com/catalog.html, send them an email and they will get it to you in a week. They have a few unique models. I refinished mine to what you see here.

  42. #150
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    The build continues and there are more of those tweaks that I/we run into, this one has the installation of the Optional hood with additional clearance. After lining up the fiberglass hood with the body and the grill (close to zero gap), we installed the hinge hardware as well as the pins to the firewall and lined that up with the hood, got the rivnuts in and attach the hinges appropriately. We then set the latch on the grill then added the latch pin/plate to the latch and laid the hood back on to mark the latch pin plate and realized that the pin was too long.
    20180724_194620.jpg got in touch with Tony at FFR and he told us that he notchess the grill a bit to allow for this if necessary. 20180724_200155 - Markup.jpg

    Went to my local hardware store which carries ALL KINDS of specialty hardware and picked up a shorter shoulder bolt. Replaced it on the plate then tried again, marked the backside like the instructions say and took off the hood to mark and install the plate with the pin to find that the slots do not sit on the portion of the flat where the aluminum backer plate is located.
    20180724_195855 - Markup.jpg Got in touch with Tony again and he agreed that even though it would hold the better solution is to have bolts in the area where the aluminum plate is located, they are sending me a new plate with 4 holes.

    Re-installed the pin on the hood and set it down, latches nice however I now have to make a spacer to move the latch on the grill down about 3/8" so the hood is in its sweet spot, and will need to do the notch afterall as I will also need to slot the latch bracket, front to back (as its slotted left/right now) to allow the latch to move forward so the nut of the pin that goes into the latch clears the face of the radiator, that will be tonight or tomorrows work most likely!
    20180724_194630.jpg I think i have a bit more than normal slope on the grill as well.

    Getting close to having the sides covers fit such that I can then modify them to allow a portion of the front to remain installed, further pics to follow after that's done then we are onto the power windows, mirrors, door handles and hardtop/windshield install to get the balance of what connects to the body done. The it all comes apart to get Polyester primer on it! (but will probably do a run in the neighborhood assembled to get the feel of the car!!

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  44. #151

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    Vintage Air has a HEAT only unit that is small and a universal fit. I had one in an old 52' Chevy PU hot rod and it worked just fine. Even here in hot SoCal I am not going with AIR Cond in my 33' ( due end Aug ) . I like the old basic Hot Rod type cars but it is nice to warm up toes on an early am ride to an event.

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  46. #152
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyAndy View Post
    Vintage Air has a HEAT only unit that is small and a universal fit. I had one in an old 52' Chevy PU hot rod and it worked just fine. Even here in hot SoCal I am not going with AIR Cond in my 33' ( due end Aug ) . I like the old basic Hot Rod type cars but it is nice to warm up toes on an early am ride to an event.
    I got mine installed in the car and it blows a lot of hot air, should be fine! Don't have a good picture right now as we got the body on as soon as it was hooked up.

  47. #153
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    Andreas, your hood latch location looks too far rearward, compared to mine. This may be why the nut is hitting the radiator. You can see in this picture where I notched the grill for the bolt head.
    hood latch location.JPG

  48. #154
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcollins View Post
    Andreas, your hood latch location looks too far rearward, compared to mine. This may be why the nut is hitting the radiator. You can see in this picture where I notched the grill for the bolt head.
    hood latch location.JPG
    Hey Tim, looks like your hood is like Bill's, mine is different due to the raised top I guess. Regardless, I spoke with Tony and he helped out and suggested to notch (or add a smiley face) to the grill like you did. I did not have to notch it yet but I need to line up the nose cone again as something shifted when i finally got the grill to lock in and sit at the right height. Tony said there will be a LOT of adjusting to get it right. Will be doing more fitting and adjusting tonight most likely. TY!!

  49. #155
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    I am at the exact same point in my build ( installing the hood) and have run into the exact same issues that you are having. I think I have solved a couple of the issues and will post them in my story.

  50. #156
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well big day yesterday, was able to attach the hard top temporarily and go for a run around the neighborhood. Felt good to get her back out on the road looking different from being just a gokart. Now looking to get the last of the sanding and aligning fine to get that first coat of polyester primer from House of Kolors applied.
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  52. #157
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    Going to look really good. I like the way you cut the fenders in

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  54. #158
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Ran into a bit of a snag today with the Koni coil over rear shocks. So the tires dont rub on the fenders I had to adjust the ring WAY UP such that I had clearance and hopefully no rubbing, have not tested it yet. With the current shocks I'm pretty well maxed out at a measurement of 3.5" from the bottom of the ring to the bottom of the threaded portion of the shock. Wondering how much others have as a measurement with an IRS test end? Also found out the right fender is a 1/2" narrower than the right fender so I will need to split and move it out the 1/2" so they look even and the right fender sits more vertical. I guess it's those small things that end up extending the build times.

    20180813_100356.jpg 20180813_121742.jpg
    20180720_141437.jpg

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  56. #159
    Ol Skool
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    Ran into a bit of a snag today with the Koni coil over rear shocks. So the tires dont rub on the fenders I had to adjust the ring WAY UP such that I had clearance and hopefully no rubbing, have not tested it yet. With the current shocks I'm pretty well maxed out at a measurement of 3.5" from the bottom of the ring to the bottom of the threaded portion of the shock. Wondering how much others have as a measurement with an IRS test end? Also found out the right fender is a 1/2" narrower than the right fender so I will need to split and move it out the 1/2" so they look even and the right fender sits more vertical. I guess it's those small things that end up extending the build times.

    20180813_100356.jpg 20180813_121742.jpg
    20180720_141437.jpg
    Hard to tell whats really going on with the clearance. I don't have IRS, but I did "pull" my inner fenders in a little at the rear. Glass was not good in that area and required smoothing out also. In the picture I lined up a Rivnut thru the trunk sheet with the glass away from the fat section of the tire side wall. I used a lock nut and long 1/4 bolt for this to draw the inner fender in. Cured a couple sins. My fenders weren't that far off, but the body is.
    FenderClearance.jpg

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  58. #160
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Has been a while since I posted but when all that your doing is sanding and touching up pinholes and small scratches, then there really is not much to show. Taking my time and getting everyday house stuff done slows the build down, but one must enjoy the summer regardless. A few picks of the first parts in the paint booth just after the Polyester Primer was applied. Suggest that anyone go this route not try and make things perfect before the polyester primer, as hard as you try this will make all the areas you thought you got show up like a sore thumb, if you do this step early on after the initial fairing you will save yourself a lot of time.
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    One item that my painter suggested is "Evercoat 440 Express Micro-Pinhole Eliminator", this is a filler however its for midro pin-holes and scratches. There has a been a few times in sanding that i grabbed a block with a coarse grade paper started to sand and &^%$#^*(*!! Can't sand it out however this product simply gets wiped on (as if your waxing your car with liquid wax) and fills and flashes right away which fills ALL those scratches and micro pin-holes from doing a bit extra putty work. Really makes a difference when your trying to get that smooth finish, especially a gloss black which shows everything.

  59. Thanks JimLev thanked for this post
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