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Thread: Black&Copper - 33 Hot Rod #1028

  1. #161
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    OK, this one is for those that have a hard top and also a bolt on windshield. I just fit and marked the hard top, then slid it back. Took my windshield and placed it so it fit well and had the bottom sitting as flush as possible and had the 31" measurement at its tips to have the right slope. If you look at the pictures, you can see both the hard top and windshield lines up, however, the fronts are about a 1/4" different.
    20180922_194858.jpg 20180922_194027.jpg
    As well the outboard holes of the windshield are basically outside of the front edge of the hard top. When I spoke with Tony Z in Syracuse he said not to use the four outside attachments, not crazy about that. The sides of the hardtop are lined up with the door joints real nice.
    20180922_194846.jpg 20180922_193956.jpg 20180922_193928.jpg
    After consulting with some great build friends and putting out a call for opinions to those who may have done this the end result for the attachment is that the front windshield will have five holes securing it. I will need to add a set of holes to each end of the windshield as I will not be using the two outboard ones on the end. For the hard top, I will have 6 in the front set at 6" apart (first set offset 3" off the CL of the car) and the standard 5 in the rear as in the assembly guide.
    20180926_201305.jpg 20180926_201256.jpg 20180926_201252.jpg 20180926_215109.jpg 20180926_215117.jpg

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  3. #162

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    Thx for showing this step in detail. I am only one week into my 33' build but this step you are doing now is already one of the million or so details on my mind. I like they way you are getting this done and I know your example will be a valuable source for my project.... When I get there. Goof job.

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  5. #163
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    What I did was mount the hardtop and draw an outline around the front inside and outside. Then I mounted the windshield using the area marked. This worked for me on 2-33 builds. Since you most likely never buy a convertible top for it this works.

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  7. #164
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quick update as most of the work I have been doing is sanding... Regardless I can see the end is near and once my body and doors get their Polyester Primer, I will be re-assembling everything and putting the whole car together will all lights, switches, panels etc... Then once that's all done I'll get my pre-inspection by the local police force to get approved by them (they make sure there are no stolen parts on the car, then I tear it all apart and send it off to the final primer, more sanding, then paint. Looking forward to having real final painted parts together!!!
    20180930_155515.jpg 20180930_151018.jpg 20180929_173454.jpg
    However she will be naked again for a while!
    20180929_173502.jpg
    Last edited by AJT '33; 10-02-2018 at 10:26 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #165
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well the sanding continues... have been looking at a spray can alternative to having Line-X or Rhino liner applied to certain areas of the cars body and fenders. Have found a commercial gravel guard, it applies easily enough, paintable, however it is not solvent resistant so i fear that anything like oil, gas or even coolant will dissolve it and it will look like crap. Looking for anything others may have used that worked very well and is easily applied, ay suggestions?? I currently have Dominion Sure Seal Gravel Guard.

  9. #166
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    I'm just thinking out loud here and have not seen much commentary one way or the other. However, I notice that the kick panel on both sides is fairly bereft of a lot of obstruction between the heat put off by the headers and the inner floor of the foot pans. I have even heard a few comments concerning the heat making its way up through the heat panel. I used Tim Whitteaker's kick panels to cover the unsightly opening. I wondered if for heat, a person were to put a vent that could be opened and closed on the kick panel to direct the heat to the floor pan in cold weather? You could put the vent in either the kick panel area or forward of it where the4 current aluminum comes up. A little creativity with insulation and a fan/blower of sorts and who knows. I think that might be a better Texas-Lousiana solution than the Northwest.

    IMG_0339 copy.jpgInterior P1010004.JPG
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    Last edited by wrp; 10-06-2018 at 08:22 PM.

  10. #167
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So between sanding, sanding and more sanding... I have figured out a method of mounting the front of the hardtop using knurled barbed inserts with 1/4-20 wing screws from Spaenur (#565-801 and be will be using the same ones for the rear, probably just longer). After a bunch of research, I found found the knurled nuts (from Spaenur #628-512) which are made to be embedded into various materials such as fiberglass. As well I found an adhesive (Loctite AA H800) that can bond metal and fiberglass together with a very high bond strength (expensive but you don't need much in reality).
    So the first step was to align and make sure the location of the hardtop and the windshield would work together when switched out. Once located and aligned I marked and drilled the holes in the front and rear. In the rear I used the Rivnuts with oversized washers that had a hole size smaller than the rivnut so I could drill out the washer to fit exactly the hole required for the Rivnuts and picked up a slightly longer grip size of 1/4-20 Rivnut. The fron was more work as I marked and drilled not only the body but after I marked the front of the hard top I drilled the holes for the knurled bard inserts to the same size as the 1/4-20 Rivnuts. You will see from the pictures the process I used.
    20181005_193322.jpg 20181005_193410.jpg 20181005_193421.jpg 20181005_193438.jpg 20181005_193449.jpg
    To ensure the alignment of the inserts to the window, I placed a stainless washer to hold the insert square to the bolt and hardtop. When the adhesive was set and before it hardened, I turned out the bolt so it would not bond to the adhesive in the cavity. One thing that did happen is that the stainless washer ended bonding to the surface anyhow so I simply just left it there. Once cured i was pleasantly surprised as to how much strength this ended up really having and even though i have way more than enough attachment points, I don't expect to use them all unless there is a seal issue and even then this is way more than strong enough.
    20181005_193505.jpg 20181006_202714.jpg This is my improvised plunger setup for the adhesive, better than spending $80 on the applicator gun
    20181006_203659.jpg 20181006_203703.jpg 20181006_213311.jpg
    Last edited by AJT '33; 10-18-2018 at 02:49 PM.

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  12. #168
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well still moving forward, got the body and doors back on last night and one of my Rivnuts that I was unsure about loosened up and is turning in loose, hate that. Now i got to decide before I remove the body if I'm going to try and salvage it or simply abandon it all together. Its not critical as it for the door sills however i'll need to take a closer look and decide what I want to do. Lesson learned... don't us the holes for the temporary fasteners to ship the body on the car for Rivnuts!
    20181024_44747956_2079446115701977_4596493812863336448_n.jpg 20181023_200829.jpg 20181023_200928.jpg 20181023_200745.jpg 20181021_125822.jpg
    Next steps are to completely assemble and fit everything including all electrical, heater, power windows, interior fit up and mock up with gauges, all hardware, basically complete. Then have it all sanded and faired in a final format, then completely tear it down cataloging every part, but bolt washer etc... Then I will be applying the final primers, base coats and clears to let it cure while I go ahead and finish paint all the miscellaneous hardware that needs it to then reassemble the whole thing once and for all!!!

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  14. #169
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    Must feel good seeing it come together. Thanks for the tip on the holes - noted so that I can pursue my own set of mistakes

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  16. #170
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Finally at a point where I need to decide if I stay with shaved door handles and remote door opener/unlock such as this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aul-311810/overview/ from Autoloc or installaing the door handles supplied with the kit? Tough decision as I am still not sure how to go about installing a secondary emergency unlock if there is no power or if the switch does not work anymore. Other than fitting and installing what I have left, this is the only thing that's giving me heartaches. I am still looking for a nice interior door latch handle that looks good and is easy to install, it seems like it always resets back to the same handles when searching on the net, not much variety out there it seems.
    Last edited by AJT '33; 11-07-2018 at 11:43 AM.

  17. #171
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Haven't posted in weeks as I took a break and then started to assemble the entire car working in all the details needed to complete the last assembly before disassembly and paint early in the new year. Finally got the detailing completed for the design of the stick shift, in the end I will custom make the Spur Gears so I ended up changing the look a bit. I am happy with the end result and now understand even better how its all in the details!!
    33HR Stick Shift Gear Assy - Final Render with Gears cropped.jpg
    Now to more of these little detail works!!!

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  19. #172
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So finally jumped in and started the process of cutting in the power window slot in the door top. Once we measured it all up I noticed the rear of the slot is right at the inside of the door leaving no room for the actual window. As well I measured the width of the window is 32" and the width of the hard top is 32" on the passenger side and 32-3/16" on the drivers side. So my dilemma is if I should get the window sanded down about an eight on each side? It will be interesting to see how much adjusting will be needed. Any suggestions or observations?
    20181208_201952.jpg 20181208_201942.jpg 20181208_201031.jpg 20181208_201025.jpg 20181208_201016.jpg 20181208_201010.jpg

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  21. #173
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    I paid guys that are much smarter than me to make mine work. They dialed mine in pretty effectively.


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  23. #174
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    I would like to wish everyone a…

    VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

    Xmas Santa!.jpg

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  25. #175
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Merry Christmas Andreas
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

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  27. #176
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Progress on those small details that will hopefully make the car stand out and keeping it simple.
    20181222_120908.jpg 20181222_120928.jpg
    And it makes the latch work smoothly!

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  29. #177
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    Wow, I am about to go install what looks like the exact same handles

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  31. #178
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    isn't this like 2 women wearing the same dress to a party? just joking. They look great. So this gives a direct mechanical connection to the latch instead of a cable?

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  33. #179
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF33rod View Post
    isn't this like 2 women wearing the same dress to a party? just joking. They look great. So this gives a direct mechanical connection to the latch instead of a cable?
    Yes, mechanical inside where the FFR in is and shaved on the outside so a cable via a remote. Will have independent emergency unlock hidden on the car as well.

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  35. #180
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Lined up and getting ready to drill the guage cluster that sits in my dash panel.
    20181222_125529.jpg 20181222_125533.jpg 20181222_151449.jpg

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  37. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    I would like to wish everyone a…

    VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

    Xmas Santa!.jpg
    Same back to you and all the others on the forum.

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    '33 Hotrod, #1047, delivered on 2/27/18, go cart on 9/24/18.
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    TorqThrust II Wheels w/Toyo Proxy T1 Sport Tires, F 245/45ZR17 R 295/35ZR18

  38. #182
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    Well the door handles are the same thing only different.Dec2018x2 002.JPGDec2018x2 003.JPG

    Everyone have a great Christmas and a healthy and happy New Year !!! And thanks for all the help through the years

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  40. #183
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well the last piece of fiberglass is fitted and installed. Minor bit of fiberglassing and then full assembly and the final primer prep.
    20181227_151250.jpg 20181227_151303.jpg

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  42. #184
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Lots and lots of fitting.... One major centerpiece was fitted and then removed so it doesn't get any damage (already has a very small nick in it). Time to finish the power windows now that I have new glass to install and then wiring back to the fuse box. Then switches and more fabrication to accommodate anything required.
    20181227_184109.jpg

    Need to complete the custom tranny cover and decide switch locations as well as where I will be cladding areas in copper plate.

  43. #185
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    Love the centerpiece

  44. #186
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrp View Post
    Love the centerpiece
    Hey Bill, yours was the inspiration!!

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  46. #187
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So I ran into a snag with the Dash panel, while I was on a business trip my son worked on the wiring and getting the gauges all pre-fit and soon realized the gauges supplied for the Tach and Speedo are 3-1/8" and not 3-3/8" which the dash panel is machined for. Too late to make a change now so I will need to 3D print a filler that will make up the space then paint it black so it looks as good as it can. Should have checked the fit as soon as I received to allow the supplier to replace it, too late now as its all dipped and sealed!!
    20190120_151214.jpg Its hard to see in this picture but the gauge is too small for the hole

  47. #188
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Back to assembling, it's been a while. Have the center console in and mocked up, some minor refinements but feel good about it. Will look better with the carpet and copper cladding.
    20190202_201941.jpg
    Also got the front and rear sidemarker lights set and mocked in. Thought I would put Dragons eyes in the back but after massaging the rear fender I liked the ovals better in the back and will change the front to the amber dragons eyes. Will tint them down with a bit of black so they blend a bit better.
    20190202_202039.jpg 20190202_141319.jpg 20190202_202048.jpg
    My son got a good portion of the door release brackets in and they are ready for mounting. Missing some 10/24 nuts for the cable chase and then that goes in. Power window fit and finalize next, next weekend.
    20190202_203227.jpg
    Also now know where my speakers are going as well, printed out the size from pictures on the internet, will work out great I think. will 3D print a speaker mount so it points the main speaker towards the center of the cab. Lots of details to get done. The work continues!!

  48. #189
    Senior Member JOP33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    Back to assembling, it's been a while. Have the center console in and mocked up, some minor refinements but feel good about it. Will look better with the carpet and copper cladding.
    20190202_201941.jpg
    Also got the front and rear sidemarker lights set and mocked in. Thought I would put Dragons eyes in the back but after massaging the rear fender I liked the ovals better in the back and will change the front to the amber dragons eyes. Will tint them down with a bit of black so they blend a bit better.
    20190202_202039.jpg 20190202_141319.jpg 20190202_202048.jpg
    My son got a good portion of the door release brackets in and they are ready for mounting. Missing some 10/24 nuts for the cable chase and then that goes in. Power window fit and finalize next, next weekend.
    20190202_203227.jpg
    Also now know where my speakers are going as well, printed out the size from pictures on the internet, will work out great I think. will 3D print a speaker mount so it points the main speaker towards the center of the cab. Lots of details to get done. The work continues!!
    Great mock up and layout on the speakers! Few questions for you, who's rear fenders did you go with, what is your rear wheel & tire size and finally do you plan on bringing the speakers outside of the door panels (meaning the speakers won't be flush)? You are much further along with the body fit up than I, and I was concerned on my speaker placement as far as clearing the window glass and all mechanisms within the door. I thought if I came out with them that may shrink the passenger space a little too much...thanks ahead of time for the help and good luck with the rest of your build.
    33' Hot Rod Coupe/Roadster, Fendered, Ford 302, 350hp, EFI, AOD, 4-Link, Double Adjustable Koni Coilovers, Split Rear Exhaust, Electric Power Steering, AC/Heat/Defrost, Moser 8.8"-3.55, Willwood Front/Rear Brakes, 18" x 8" Fronts/20" x 10" Rears, Ordered: 1.26.17, Arrived: 3.29.17, First Start: 7.2.18, Go Cart: 11.4.18 Paint/Body: 2.23.19

  49. #190
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOP33 View Post
    Great mock up and layout on the speakers! Few questions for you, who's rear fenders did you go with, what is your rear wheel & tire size and finally do you plan on bringing the speakers outside of the door panels (meaning the speakers won't be flush)? You are much further along with the body fit up than I, and I was concerned on my speaker placement as far as clearing the window glass and all mechanisms within the door. I thought if I came out with them that may shrink the passenger space a little too much...thanks ahead of time for the help and good luck with the rest of your build.
    The rear fenders are the standard FFR fenders (as well as the fronts) but I ended up cutting them to the shape I wanted for the look I wanted so the rear lines are continuous. Here are a few of my mock up shots. This is where that 1/4" masking tape comes in real handy, I mocked up one side then using the fender itself making marks on the edge at 1" intervals, measured vertical and horizontal points along the fender edge to mark the opposite side, worked well. I did not cut them until I had the body back on the car and made sure I liked the overall look. I am trying to use as much of the supplied material to keep my costs down so I have money to spend elsewhere on details. (also posted comments on the fronts on your build thread)
    20180421_212107.jpg 20180421_212118.jpg 20180421_212128.jpg 20180421_200959.jpg

    As to the speakers, I found Infinity speakers (www.infinityspeakers.com) which were the same as in my daily driver (sound is phenomenal!) So when I researched them I found that the size/depth versus the quality of sound was worth the expense. As the 6-1/2" speakers (60CSX) are only 2-1/2" tall overall (for 100W RMS/300 peak speaker), I think I can angle them towards the inside of the cab a bit and set them back into the door an inch which would have them only sit about 2" proud max overall from the door face (I think I can push them in further but will finalize once the window and all the other stuff is in the door first). When I have it setup I will take pics and post them as I am also probably going to 3D print the door mounts to ensure fit and function.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  51. #191
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well this Saturday was a good day and actually we are starting to get back into the swing of things. Installed a few items and sourced the drain on the battery to the ECM where it seemed to draw about 100 mA when the car was turned off. Doesn't seem like much however that combined with the normal 30 mA that the rest of the system typically draws just sitting there (which I understand can be normal in my setup) basically would drain the battery in about 24 hours. Was going to put a manual cut off switch in that would disconnect the electrical completely however my son suggested that I place it in between the ECM and the battery. Will hide the switch and that allows everything else to still be live however the heart of the system be locked out which would not allow anyone to even boost the car to start without that switch on! That way as well I can use all the electrical features and even if the battery does die, I can put attach my Lithium boost pack and get it running using my remote terminals I'm also installing, another thing solved!
    All these details are tough to handle sometimes!!!

  52. #192
    Senior Member FF33rod's Avatar
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    A cutoff switch isn't a bad thing that's for sure. But your battery should last a lot longer with that small draw. A small car battery is about 50 amp-hours. So drawing 130 mA will give over 380 hours of power, that's around 16 days.

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  54. #193
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF33rod View Post
    A cutoff switch isn't a bad thing that's for sure. But your battery should last a lot longer with that small draw. A small car battery is about 50 amp-hours. So drawing 130 mA will give over 380 hours of power, that's around 16 days.
    I completely agree, we will definitely be looking into it, it could be the Ford Racing modules that are the power pigs, I am confident my son will track it down.

  55. #194
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    130MA draw is way to much and will kill a battery pretty quick. The pcm shouldn't draw that much for the keep alive memory. I pulled the keep alive memory out of the harness and its on a separate fused circuit so the pcm memory is retained. The engine will start and run better if you don't clear the memory every time.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  56. #195
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    130MA draw is way to much and will kill a battery pretty quick. The pcm shouldn't draw that much for the keep alive memory. I pulled the keep alive memory out of the harness and its on a separate fused circuit so the pcm memory is retained. The engine will start and run better if you don't clear the memory every time.
    If you have any pictures or something to show how you done that it would be appreciated. We haven't completed that as we are just getting the final fit up details done for submission to the inspectors. Once that's done we will be all over this like flies on you know what! Your insight and help is appreciated.

  57. #196
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Andreas, I'm using the Gen 1 Coyote and control pack. If your using the same thing I can help with the keep alive wire. I don't have any info on the Gen 2 but can help figure it out if that is what you have.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  58. #197
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    Andreas, I'm using the Gen 1 Coyote and control pack. If your using the same thing I can help with the keep alive wire. I don't have any info on the Gen 2 but can help figure it out if that is what you have.
    Yes, mine is a 2013 coyote (actually out of a 2013 F150 but sets up the same) and were using the Ford Racing M-6017-A504VB control pack. THX!!!

  59. #198
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Ok I will look at the wiring diagram and get back to you.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  60. Thanks AJT '33 thanked for this post
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  61. #199
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    Thanks for this build post. I have seen a lot of helpful information here. I believe you posted a few pics of your fuel line routes next to your mufflers in a different post. I notice what looks like a diamond pattern heat shield. Can you recall this product? Have you been able to test it yet? Thanks

  62. #200
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo808 View Post
    Thanks for this build post. I have seen a lot of helpful information here. I believe you posted a few pics of your fuel line routes next to your mufflers in a different post. I notice what looks like a diamond pattern heat shield. Can you recall this product? Have you been able to test it yet? Thanks
    Hey there, I have run it while go karting and was not able to place my hand on the floor due to the heat, then added the heat shield underneath above the muffler and was able to place my hand on it, however its still hot. I have yet to add the additional interior heat shield that came with the components of the car and also the sound dampening insulation on top of that. I would expect with all those layers the heat transfer will be negligible (I don't expect to be sitting at traffic lights too often!). I will know for sure in a couple months when I start the final assembly after paint and will be able to report on it thereafter.

    Appreciate your comments and interest, I try and provide my experiences and let others decide what they would like to do.

    The heat shield I used underneath is from Design Engineering Inc. (http://designengineering.com/), it worked and stuck very well, as anything its all in the preparation.
    20180520_092432.jpg 20180519_212833.jpg

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