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Thread: Black&Copper - 33 Hot Rod #1028

  1. #41
    Senior Member HVACMAN's Avatar
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    It has always been my understanding that you needed A/C along with heat to remove humidity from the inside air to prevent fogging on the inside of the windshield.

  2. #42
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    Vintage air, Southern air and old air products all sell heat/defrost units only. I would question the practicality of switching between the hard top and no top, with the need to mount the different windshield. I'd build the car one way or the other and leave it that way.

    The need for the air conditioning portion of the system most often occurs when it's cold, but humid due to rain. Passengers also create internal humidity, but at least you're limited to only two. These system are crude compared to modern computer controlled units. All you do is turn the AC on about half way and then run the defrost to help reduce inside humidity. I drive my car in the Colorado winter and never needed the defroster, but I only take the car out on warmer days when there is no ice or snow on the roads. Rear wheel drive only cars really suck in the snow. I have used the defroster briefly when I drove in 45-50 degree rain, but I didn't bother to turn the AC on.

    With the hard top, don't under estimate the need for AC, unless you like being hot and driving with the windows down. Aluminum floor and firewall panels conduct a lot more heat into the car than fiberglass, and there will also be a lot of heat coming through the hard top, unless you put a lot of effort into insulating it. Spray on products like Lizard Skin will not work miracles and neither will any of the dynamat type products. Even with less conductive fiberglass firewall and floor, sprayed with lizard skin, I added two layers of 1/4" closed sell neoprene foam under my carpet to reduce the heat load. The entire top of my car is also insulated with 3/4" core foam, most often used for building boat hulls.
    Last edited by DaveS53; 12-20-2017 at 09:25 AM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Something to think about for sure... Right now the intent is to run the car with the hard top only however set it up in a way to allow the conversion to open top. We just don't know what we prefer right now which is why I got both. I would have gotten a rag top however I really did not like the look of any of the rag tops and their attachments at the windshields and in the area I live in (our nations capital great for politicians, sucks for anything like what I/we are doing) there is no one who can do this without going very far away to find someone. Maybe i will be able to find a good rag top and then stay with that and sell the hard top however the side windows would not work then, kind of crappy if you ask me. Regardless, will be looking into this a bit more for sure to see what is best, may end up with an AC unit after all, we'll see. Thanks all!

  4. #44
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    AJT, the convertible top and side curtains that Factory Five has is from Rod Tops, you have to buy it from F5 but its a really nice top in looks and quality. I love mine and just had a boot made by Rod Tops to store the top in on the car. Its not cheap but I think its worth it.IMG_7746.JPGIMG_7747.JPG
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  5. #45
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    AJT, the convertible top and side curtains that Factory Five has is from Rod Tops, you have to buy it from F5 but its a really nice top in looks and quality. I love mine and just had a boot made by Rod Tops to store the top in on the car. Its not cheap but I think its worth it.IMG_7746.JPGIMG_7747.JPG
    Could you take a picture at the windshield connection? I have seen wood blocking at that point and thought it looked chincy as a connection versus a hard mounted connection. Much appreciated!!

  6. #46
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    boot on car.JPG If you zoom in on the top of the windshield frame you can see its an aluminum or steel mount, the front bow of the top is wood like most convertible tops like this.
    Last edited by CVOBill; 12-20-2017 at 05:20 PM. Reason: add picture
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  7. #47
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    the front bow of the top is wood like most convertible tops like this.
    Bill can you get to the wood without the top connected? He might like it better if he could primer and paint it black to match the top.
    Tim Sapp
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    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

  8. #48
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDSapp View Post
    Bill can you get to the wood without the top connected? He might like it better if he could primer and paint it black to match the top.
    I'm sure you can take the wood out and paint it, I believe I remember someone on here that stained the wood for the top.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  9. #49
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well good progress this week in the end, I received the correct upper control arms from FFR and yes they are correct! So I got them prepped for paint, got them primed, base coated with color and 3 coats of clear. With the paint system that I have no need for color sanding and buffing, this system is killer! Also got my rear knuckles done as well.
    20171221_205841.jpg20171221_205824.jpg20171219_212551.jpg

    Once completed I was able to move on to the differential, now this was a beast and I needed to figure out how to be able to prime and prep it. Well looking around the shop it dawned on me that I am not taking advantage of my engine crane so I rigged up my rotator with a few bolts on the diff and voila, instant height adjustable diff sling! It actually worked out really well, would recommend to anyone else who need to detail theirs!
    20171221_200454.jpg20171221_205810.jpg20171221_214304.jpg20171221_214339.jpg

    Lots of assembly ahead over the holidays and then i move along to detailing my engine and putting together the engine start stand. Need to get this pony started and turn it into a stallion!!

    Merry Christmas to everyone and a prosperous Happy new Year!!!

  10. #50
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    That looks great!! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  11. #51
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well yesterday was a very productive day, my son was assembling all the parts that I had previously painted inclusive of the differential. One item that has come up once we had it installed is how it is offset to the passenger side by approximately 3/4" as you can see in the picture.
    20171223_165805.jpg20171222_200451.jpg20171222_200446.jpg
    Has anyone else encountered this? Is this something to worry about? I will be once again asking FFR but really would like to see if this is consistent with other builds that have an IRS rear end. Much appreciated!!

  12. #52
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Looking to see what other 33 owners with an IRS rear end have to say about this one. I posted on the Facebook site to see what other may have to say however I think the best spot is here with the other Hot Rod builders. My son assembled and installed the rear bearings calipers, disks etc... yesterday. In doing so he discovered that the pads sat about an eight inch high on the disk.
    25593833_10156024919629732_5911787693545907113_n.jpg25660259_10156024919569732_5499556761296691684_n.jpg
    Since the dis is trapped on the bearing it can only be turned concentrically. We trimmed the pad lips a bit to allow them to sit flush to the top however we were wondering if others had the same issue when installing their IRS rear end brakes?
    25550315_10156024919744732_4260328805464719323_n.jpg25593983_10156024919814732_7314985017843896978_n.jpg25994698_10156024919864732_8461935017616533946_n.jpg20171223_193855.jpg20171223_172647.jpg

    Here is a pic of the final products, they sit well however there is still a gap under the pad which we feel is normal as you cannot have a pad taller due to the pad sitting on the inside of the caliper on the calipers body.
    FB_IMG_1514083844501[1].jpg

    Hope everyone is enjoying their Christmas Holidays!!

  13. #53
    Senior Member Tampa33Build's Avatar
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    Please post what FFR states about the IRS alignment. I noticed the same thing on my 33 yesterday while using a laser to align the body to the chassis.
    IRS.JPG

  14. #54
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So I dropped a note to Tony Zullo at FFR and he confirmed that the offset is designed that way due to the differential design being offset. The key is to have the engine and the differential parallel in both the plan and profile views even if they are offset to each other, this way there is no differential motion of the drive shaft. There is a great post in the blogs on drive shaft phasing: "http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22798-U-Joint-Phasing-Video-amp-Why-It-Is-Important&highlight=drive+shaft+angle" this actually shows how important it is for the motor and differential to be aligned to each other, parallel in both plan and profile. That is why you see a lot of shimming of the trans mount to align the engine with the differential. We will be very careful with this when we setup the engine and differential alignment.

  15. #55
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    It is not desirable to have the driveshaft perfectly aligned with the trans and differential in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Some misalignment is needed to insure the rotation of the needle bearings in the u-joints. If the engine and trans are centered in the frame, but the pinion is offset toward the passenger side, there's usually nothing that can be done to correct that. If the offset is only 1/2" and the driveshaft has a decent length, like 30-40 inches, then the slight angle is usually ignored, since it's less than one degree.

  16. #56
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS53 View Post
    It is not desirable to have the driveshaft perfectly aligned with the trans and differential in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Some misalignment is needed to insure the rotation of the needle bearings in the u-joints. If the engine and trans are centered in the frame, but the pinion is offset toward the passenger side, there's usually nothing that can be done to correct that. If the offset is only 1/2" and the driveshaft has a decent length, like 30-40 inches, then the slight angle is usually ignored, since it's less than one degree.
    Hey Dave, very true, I got a note form Tony afterwards and he also recommended that there be a 2 degree differential in the profile view plane to make sure the universal joints do their job. Appreciate the insight!

  17. #57
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Looking forward to getting the brake lines setup over the next couple weeks (Business travel will hold me back a bit!) so we can get into the wiring and the firewall painting and installation!!
    20171224_121115.jpg

  18. #58
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Have not posted in a little while as work takes precedent when trying to build and pay for a project like this. Thank god for a great son however, while we were away he was house sitting and low and behold got all the brake lines installed as well as marking and drilling the aluminum floor pans amongst getting little miscellaneous items completed. Decided to stick with the FFR supplied brake lines as its not my intent to drive it in wet weather. received_10155732720480935.jpegreceived_10155732753775935.jpeg 20180105_231508.jpg 20180103_201925.jpg received_10155734422560935[1].jpeg
    He did a great job in hiding the lines along the frame! Next up is color sanding and polishing the firewall and getting that installed so we can finish the steering and he can start on wiring while i go ahead and prep the engine for color on the block, then assembly and prep to get it on the engine start stand!

  19. #59
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well last night was my first foray into the art of color sanding and polishing. I have done this before however never to the level of 3000/5000 sanding with polishing. After i was done I had a real appreciation of the work and the time it takes to make something shine.

    I went from a nice "shiny" surface on the firewall (easier to test on this and repaint then a whole car!): 20180105_231508.jpg

    To a nice high gloss shine on the firewall where i can really appreciate the effort made to do this: 20180116 Firewall after sand and buff 1.jpg 20180116 Firewall after sand and buff 2.jpg

    All in all for my first real attempt at this I learned a lot, surface prep pre-paint is THE most important step, sanding and polishing to this level WILL show each and every surface wrinkle, material defect that you have. Adding an additional sanding primer and re-sanding WILL make a HUGE difference. You get one shot and its worth it when you see the result, cut corners and it will be in your face every time you look at the car or that area. Amazing how we still learn things, less stupid today than yesterday!

    On to engine paint prepping!!!
    Last edited by AJT '33; 01-17-2018 at 09:20 AM.

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  21. #60
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    Firewall looks great!!!
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

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  23. #61
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well got the firewall riveted in, little bit of a challenge to make sure I didnt ding it in any way. so after doing that, twice, I ended up taking a piece of stiff cardboard, drilled a small hole, slid it over the rivet and made a temporary shield!
    20180117_195111.jpg20180117_195204.jpg
    End result with the Black head rivets looks fantastic!
    20180117_195830.jpg20180117_200321.jpg

  24. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    Well got the firewall riveted in, little bit of a challenge to make sure I didnt ding it in any way. so after doing that, twice, I ended up taking a piece of stiff cardboard, drilled a small hole, slid it over the rivet and made a temporary shield!
    20180117_195111.jpg20180117_195204.jpg
    With all this great detail work (it does look amazing) I have to ask - are you going to drive this, or show it? No judgement, I love how different we all are!
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  25. #63
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRacer View Post
    With all this great detail work (it does look amazing) I have to ask - are you going to drive this, or show it? No judgement, I love how different we all are!
    Initially I will most likely show it while its still pretty however with the amount of car events locally I will be driving it. In the end it will be my sunny day driver to work, cant not do that!!! Hey you build it to be proud of it and then you can enjoy driving it even more!!

  26. #64
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Okay everyone I need some more help on a measurement on a 5L Coyote Engine oil pan. Could some of you put a straight edge on the bottom of your oil pan and measure to the top edge of the oil pan, not the gasket or block. I would like to validate this measurement against a stock 5L Mustang Coyote Engine (GT, Boss 302,or Racing Pan) As I amusing an engine form a 2013 F150 I want to see if i really need to replace the pan. as far as i can tell my pan is only 6-5/8" and most replacement racing pans are the same. hence why I would like to see what other pans from Mustang 5L engines have as a height.

    Your help is deeply appreciated!!!! TY!
    Last edited by AJT '33; 01-21-2018 at 07:46 PM.

  27. #65
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    OK, long weekend of work, thank god for my son (Extremely proud Dad here!) without him I would not be as far along as we are IMO. While he worked on electrical and miscellaneous items as I get parts we find that need painting, painted, I have started the daunting task of cleaning my donor engine, my son got all the parts that we could strip off removed and placed away for the time being. Then with a small wire brush on an air grinder I started to work on brushing/cleaning off everything I could get off. LOTS of loose scale and corrosion that came from our salt ridden winters up here. 20171230_115942.jpg 20171230_120024.jpg I am using a 1" medium wire brush such that the wires spin outwards when at a higher speed and can settle a bit more at lower speeds. I also found some small brass brushes for the Dremmel (1/4" brush) and I used those to get into all those small crevices, they actually worked out very well however the two that i bought were toast after the first round on each side, need to get a couple more to finish the job. So far it looks good and clean and as soon as we get the puller to remove the front pulley I will go ahead and finish the front and hopefully by this weekend be in paint!
    20180121_161241.jpg20180121_161307.jpg20180121_161250.jpg

  28. #66
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Not much progress this weekend so far however I took the plunge after struggling with my little 25 gallon compressor and upgraded to an 80 gallon 6hp. No more waiting or sharing the air with my son. What a HUGE difference a two stage makes.
    Now to finish the work on the engine and tomorrow my harmonic pulley removing tool arrives and we can get it off so I can paint this week. Next weekend re-assembly of the engine with the transmission and in she goes! Hope to have first start by end of February!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by AJT '33; 01-29-2018 at 10:16 AM.

  29. #67
    Senior Member CVOBill's Avatar
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    When I saw an update on your build thread I was hoping to see the painted engine. I'm just a little anxious to see it, but this is a nice update and a great addition to the shop. Keep the updates coming.
    CVOBill
    MK2 #???? Delivered 11/2002, Finished and Titled 6/2003 5.0, T-5, 4-Link, Sold 3/2005
    Hot Rod #304 purchased 5/28/2017 from original owner Unassembled . Titled and plated 8/24/2017 Coyote,
    TKO, 3-Link, Heat, A/C, Electric Power Steering, Convertible top
    MK4 #9524 Picked up 1/18/19 306 Blueprint, T-5, 4-Link, Gas-N Pipes, Heater

  30. #68
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVOBill View Post
    When I saw an update on your build thread I was hoping to see the painted engine. I'm just a little anxious to see it, but this is a nice update and a great addition to the shop. Keep the updates coming.
    Well guess what, got the base coat on. Need to get the front pulley off tomorrow when my puller is suppose to arrive. Here are a few prelim pics of what I painted this afternoon.
    20180128_155320.jpg20180128_155324.jpg20180128_155333.jpg20180128_155342.jpg20180128_155348.jpg

  31. #69
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So all of you I need your help once again. As I am nearing the end of all the little detail parts I am completely on the wall about what to do with my grill as it pertains to a paint scheme. Should I go Black on Black? Black grills with a ring of Burnt Copper? All Burnt Copper? Burnt Copper grills and Black trim around? Right now I am leaning to the last on with Burnt copper grills and Black around the edge, What do you all think would be nice? Look forward to hearing from you all!

    PS. I am looking at having a flat copper plate as a backdrop for the instrument panel fitted in the recess from one door to the other.

  32. #70

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    Did you consider copper plating for the bright work?

    c147bc8f972b90cfc50fa29d2b75fd2a--pedal-cars-steampunk.jpg
    Last edited by RoadRacer; 01-29-2018 at 03:07 PM.
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  33. #71
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRacer View Post
    Did you consider copper plating for the bright work?

    c147bc8f972b90cfc50fa29d2b75fd2a--pedal-cars-steampunk.jpg
    I looked at the Steampunk radiator on that special build however since most of the copper effect is a darker burnt or oxidized color I was thinking to use the same however instead of bright copper the burnt copper. Copper plating is EXTREMELY expensive (close to $800 CDN) so I'm sticking with the paint work versus the plate work.
    I do like that look and I am inspired by that work as well.

  34. #72

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    Understood! I love that color combo, so that equates to "Black grills with a ring of Burnt Copper?" getting my vote!
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  35. #73
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    So my engine is base coated with 3 coats of clear, very happy how it turned out. 20180130_210918.jpg 20180130_210858.jpg

    My next challenge is with the valve cover bolts, initially I thought to just replace them but when I went to the Ford Dealer thinking they would cost a couple buck I was surprised to hear they were $11 each!! For roughly 28 bolts thats way too much! 20171230_120028.jpg

    So I guess that removing, sand blasting and more painting will be necessary unless any of you know where i can get much less expensive bolts or chrome or black replacements? Any ideas anyone? Hitting my limit on spending so will need to either get creative or find much less expensive solutions. Thanks all!

  36. #74
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    Measure the thread size and length of the bolts. Of course they are metric. Quite often, you can find stainless steel replacements at places like McMaster-Carr or Bolt Depot. You can choose between hex head, socket head or button head.

  37. #75
    EFI Rules and Carbs Drool Arrowhead's Avatar
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    Looks great, glad to see you take the time and dedication to paint your engine - base and clear to boot. It's a lot of work but I always do it too. Do you have the ability to powder coat? You could do a satin black color or something else that compliments you paint scheme. Heck, for small bolts like that you could do it in a toaster oven. If you don't have a powder coating machine, you'll recover the cost pretty quickly by not having to buy new hardware.

  38. #76
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Not much movement on my end this last week due to catching that infamous flu bug. My son again stepped up to the plate and kept the build going and he mocked up the engine support brackets and headers to see how they would look before we fit it in the frame this weekend.
    20180204_131906.jpg 20180204_131853.jpg
    More to follow!
    Last edited by AJT '33; 02-07-2018 at 09:43 AM.

  39. #77
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    Well last night was a milestone, we knew when we were fitting up the engine that we needed to nip one corner of the timing chain cover however being a F150 engine with a slightly different cover we did not know how much. In the end it will be a nice chunk that will be removed but all in all it not that bad, will need to cut carefully to be able to refinish the corner where we made the trim.
    20180207_194528.jpg 20180207_194444.jpg 20180207_204006.jpg

    To all you guys who are using an F150 engine, this is what you will need to be doing. As well, at least on this 2013 F150 engine, the oil pan was not any deeper than the standard GT engine so we did not change it nor did we change the timing chain cover. We will know once we add all the other pulleys and try on the belt we will really know if all is good once we start the engine. More to come...

  40. #78
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    BIG DAY TODAY! Have the base engine setup we will be adding the transmission and then it's off to getting the engine in!
    20180210_160849.jpg 20180210_160855.jpg20180210_160901.jpg

  41. #79
    Senior Member AJT '33's Avatar
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    B@C has a heart![ATTACH=CONFIG]80705[/ATTACH 20180210_212125.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  42. #80
    Senior Member TDSapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJT '33 View Post
    B@C has a heart!


    I bet that feels good. I know it felt great for me to have the motor set in and waiting to start.
    Tim Sapp
    11110001101
    Build Blog: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    33 Hot Rod
    Delivered 5/31/2017

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