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Thread: Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build Driveshaft Safety Loop

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by dncharo View Post
    Paul,
    I absolutely love those seats! Do you think they would fit in the MK4? We got the Kirky high backs from FFR when we ordered our kit, but if your seats fit then we might try to sell them on the classifieds and buy the ones you got.
    David
    I honestly don't know. Their website has a dimension chart. It's the last one on the images list: https://corbeau.com/sportline-evolution-x.html. You could compare these dimensions to your Kirkey high backs. I've only ever installed the traditional Roadster low back seats in my Roadster builds. So don't have a sense of what else might fit. Good luck.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  2. #122
    Thanks for the quick response. I’ll give it a look. I also noticed they don’t have a slot for the 5th seat belt (anti-submarine). Are you still planning on using it or just going with 4 point?
    MK4 Roadster #9138
    427w, EFI, TKO600, IRS, complete kit, Wilwood brakes, power steering
    Delivered 8/9/17
    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...8-Build-Thread

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by dncharo View Post
    Thanks for the quick response. I’ll give it a look. I also noticed they don’t have a slot for the 5th seat belt (anti-submarine). Are you still planning on using it or just going with 4 point?
    On my "TBD" list. I've used the anti-submarine belt with the kit provided Simpsons on my previous Roadster builds. Those were regular Roadster seats and fixed. It's never been quite clear to me how guys use the anti-submarine belt with sliding seats. With or without the slot in the seats. Maybe they don't. In addition to looking at the Simpson belts, another possibility is the Schroth Profi II ASM setup designed to be used as a four point system.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  4. #124
    Yes, Boig Motorsports took the extremely limited space into account when we designed the lower cooling hose for the Gen 3 Coupe! I'm sure you'll be impressed with the fit!

    Bob Boig

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Boig Motorsports View Post
    Yes, Boig Motorsports took the extremely limited space into account when we designed the lower cooling hose for the Gen 3 Coupe! I'm sure you'll be impressed with the fit!

    Bob Boig
    That's great news! You will be hearing from me. And thanks for following my build thread.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    On my "TBD" list. I've used the anti-submarine belt with the kit provided Simpsons on my previous Roadster builds. Those were regular Roadster seats and fixed. It's never been quite clear to me how guys use the anti-submarine belt with sliding seats. With or without the slot in the seats. Maybe they don't. In addition to looking at the Simpson belts, another possibility is the Schroth Profi II ASM setup designed to be used as a four point system.
    I used the Schroth Rallye Cross 4 point system on another car with Sparco R100 seats. I was really impressed with how they do the "anti-sub" without the 5th point. I definitely recommend their stuff and would NOT put an anti-sub on a seat that wasn't designed for it.

  7. #127
    Senior Member
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    On my two previous cars I had the 5th anti-sub / crotch belt. These wrapped over the seat and went to the floor under the seat. Also had adjustable seats.

    In a perfect world these were not properly mounted but... The 5th belt kept the buckle positioned low and across my hips where it needs to be rather than riding up around my waist.

    My guess is that if you followed racing regulations on belt install there'd be a lot of redesigning going on.

    For the Challenge Car I'll use 6-point belts and Kirkey seats.

    Jim
    > edited on 2/5 to correct text.
    Last edited by Jim1855; 02-05-2018 at 07:13 PM.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    I was asked on the other forum about the view of instruments through the steering wheel while sitting in the seat, so thought I would post the response here as well. I'm very early in mocking things up. Don't even have seats yet so can't confirm 100% this is the view from sitting in the seat. But I think it's close. Tach and speedo are in good shape even with the thicker steering wheel. The smaller gauges not as good. When things get more finalized, I may put them in different holes so that the most important ones (e.g. oil pressure, water temp) have the best view. But I think it's going to be OK. The scribbling on the dash of other stuff is very preliminary. Looking at various options right now.



    Working on lots of little stuff, but nothing significant to post regarding overall progress. Today I'm re-doing the rear harness. Making it fit the layout of the Coupe a little better plus adding some wires for additions I'm making.
    hi Edward, I am really enjoying your build thread and was speaking with FRR today. Which gauges did you order for this build? I like them very much. I see your gauges have a clockwise speedometer and Dan from FFR said the optional gauges have a reversed speedo and if I wanted a clockwise speedo speed hut could make that mod. Was just wondering if you had to go through that process and what the cost was. Thanks, Joel..

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Jkviper View Post
    hi Edward, I am really enjoying your build thread and was speaking with FRR today. Which gauges did you order for this build? I like them very much. I see your gauges have a clockwise speedometer and Dan from FFR said the optional gauges have a reversed speedo and if I wanted a clockwise speedo speed hut could make that mod. Was just wondering if you had to go through that process and what the cost was. Thanks, Joel..
    Those are right off the Gen 3 Coupe order form. Part number 60312 - Coupe GPS Gauge set. $425.00 addition over the standard gauges. They are Speedhut gauges and were delivered along with my kit exactly as pictured. Nothing special I had to do.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  10. #130
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Sir EdwardB,

    How are you feeling about this build so far compared to your previous builds?
    Just wondering what your thoughts are so far having watched your previous projects become show winning reality.
    Thanks In Advance!

    Steve

  11. #131
    Thanks Edward. I appreciate the reply.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Sir EdwardB,

    How are you feeling about this build so far compared to your previous builds?
    Just wondering what your thoughts are so far having watched your previous projects become show winning reality.
    Thanks In Advance!

    Steve
    Hey Steve. Interesting question. Had to think about it a little. So far, I would have to say it all feels pretty familiar. The front and rear suspensions are nearly identical. Brakes and shocks are the same. Fuel tank is the same. Pedal box and pedals are the same. A few different wrinkles here and there and how they're mounted. But still feels about the same. Next week I hope to get the engine mock-up in place, then start working on fuel and brake lines. The routing, especially for the fuel lines, will be quite different. But in the end, still similar techniques. I've started working on the aluminum panels. Again, same process (including inordinate amount of clecos ). The panels are different shapes and sizes of course. But the panel overall layout is similar. Some of the big differences are still ahead. Heat and A/C. Very different instrument panel. Different door hinges and latches. Very different glass. And of course the body is also very different including the tip-up nose (unless you're Jazzman or 2bking). In general, the fit of everything is quite good. The body looks like it's going to fit up well. Based on everything I've heard and seen, it's an easier build than the previous Coupes. Generally, the Coupe was not recommended as a first build. I'm still a long way from done so I might change my mind. But I'm not sure that's the case any more. Those are my random thoughts after being maybe 15-20% in.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-07-2018 at 08:10 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  13. #133
    Paul,
    Have you thought about the door windows yet? Will you use the ones with the kit? I know there have been a few folks looking at roll up/power windows..but haven't seen anything lately.
    Thanks,
    Dan

  14. #134
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Thanks-O-Million For The The Reply!

    Though there is no way for me to build one anytime soon (3-5 Years) you never what will be in store for the future after I finally get my MK-4 on the road.

    Thanks Again!

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by dbursch View Post
    Paul, Have you thought about the door windows yet? Will you use the ones with the kit? I know there have been a few folks looking at roll up/power windows..but haven't seen anything lately.
    Thanks,
    Dan
    The kit doesn't come with any side windows. Only the scoop at the rear of the openings. My understanding is that Factory Five is working on Gen 3 side windows. Something similar to what was available on the Gen 2 I'm assuming. But I don't know for sure. I haven't heard anything further for some time, so actually just asked again. It's not something that's slowing me down at this time. But I do plan on have side windows in the finished car. I'm not remotely interested in trying to install roll up/power windows. The modifications would be extensive. The existing door frame and hinge design would have to redone. I'm not even sure if the shape of the door and body is conducive to a roll-up window. I saw a Gen 2 Coupe build, I think on the other forum, where the builder installed roll-up power windows. Impressive, but a huge effort, including body mods. Just not going to go there. If you look at a Superformance Daytona Coupe, which has power windows, the body and door opening are different. I'm sure partly to allow that.

    Update: Factory Five is accepting pre-orders for the Gen 3 side windows. They are being fabricated at this time. I'll be getting on the list.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-07-2018 at 08:46 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post

    Update: Factory Five is accepting pre-orders for the Gen 3 side windows. They are being fabricated at this time. I'll be getting on the list.

    Paul,

    Did you contact FFR to get this info? I've been watching the parts catalog and news for this... I have a credit w/FFR that I was planning to put toward windows. Should I just call to get in the queue?

    Thanks!

    Alex
    Gen 3 Coupe #68, Ordered 10/23/17, Picked up 01/06/18

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by qwezxc12 View Post
    Paul,

    Did you contact FFR to get this info? I've been watching the parts catalog and news for this... I have a credit w/FFR that I was planning to put toward windows. Should I just call to get in the queue?

    Thanks!

    Alex
    Yes. Received the update from Factory Five this AM. Call them to get on the list. That's what I'll be doing.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  18. #138

  19. #139

    I Love Do-Overs, Gen 3 Coyote News

    Couple of things since my last update. When I posted about the installation of the Eibach 1-inch rear wheel spacers last week, which involved shortening the existing wheel studs, I had only completed the driver side. Then took the weekend off. First thing Monday went after the passenger side. I still had my calipers set for the amount to trim off the ends of the wheel studs. Checked one of the pieces cut from the other side just to be sure. Looked good. Marked where to cut them, zipped off the five pieces with the air cut-off tool, cleaned up the ends with a file, and proceeded to install the wheel spacer. Uh-Oh. Big problem. The studs were too short. The lug nuts holding the spacer had at least 1/8-inch of open threads. Never acceptable, but especially for something as critical as wheel lug nuts. I can’t believe stuff like this happens, but it does. I remembered that when I went to install the kit supplied 1/2-20 studs, there were two slightly different styles. The tapered end on five was slightly different than the other five. Of course I put the matching five together on each side. Just what I do. What I now know, which didn’t register until now, is that one set was 1/4-shorter than the other. As a result, my cut off studs were now 1/4-inch too short. The warning signs were there, but I blew right past them and didn’t check carefully enough before cutting. You know the old carpenter’s line – I cut it three times and it was still too short. I guess that applies to building cars as well. I had no choice but to tear everything apart and replace those five studs. One step forward, two back.

    Checked local parts stores, and no one had the right studs in stock. Checked Summit and they had multiple options. Ordered Dorman 610-290. Only thing available was a package of 10, so enough for another do-over (!!). Price was right though. I like ARP stuff, but theirs were three times the price for 5. I figured the Dorman parts were equivalent to the ones I already had, which turned out to be the case. While waiting for the parts to arrive, tore the rear suspension down and removed the bearing hub. Wasn’t too bad. After getting the brakes off, with the UCA and toe arm bolts out, the knuckle swung far enough out to get the CV axle out of the way and access to the four bearing bolts. Pressed out the now too short studs, cut the new ones to the proper length once they arrived (after checking my math multiple times), installed them into the hub, and put everything back together. All worked out fine and the replacement studs were exactly the right length. Good grief. What a pain. I put some Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black Satin rattle can paint on the spacers and installed torquing the nuts to 85 ft/lbs. Now really done on both sides. I think.



    On a separate note, a little bit of news about the Gen 3 Coyote. Last Saturday, our local club (Great Lakes Cobra Club) had a club meeting at a restaurant in Dearborn. Just down the street from Ford world headquarters. We had a special speaker from Ford Performance who presented some information about Coyotes, especially related to their crate versions and use in our cars. He gave some general information about the upcoming Gen 3 Coyote crate, and afterwards I spoke with him in more detail. The high level summary is they do expect the crate Gen 3 to be released later this year. Probably by summer. They have a completed version running in a mule Mustang. Pricing hasn’t been finalized, but it will be more expensive. Apparently the DI components added are not cheap. They will have the Gen 3 crate Coyote displayed at the Ford booth at the Detroit Autorama March 2-4, along with the mule Mustang. I always attend that show so will take the opportunity to see it in person and talk to the Ford people in the booth. Maybe I can get a further update about availability at that time. Also will be using the next month to confirm if it will fit in the Gen 3 Coupe. That DI pump on the RH cylinder bank is an open question. Based on that, I’ll hopefully be able to make a decision about the Gen 3 Coyote for my build. I was also told they have about a one year supply of the Gen 2 Coyote crates in the Ford Performance warehouse. So doesn’t seem there’s too much danger of not being able to get one of those if I decide to go that way. I won't be disappointed if that happens. But not going to give up on the Gen 3 version quite yet. We’ll see. On a separate note, the Fast 'N Loud "winning" Pantera and (I think he said...) Factory Five Snap-On Coupe will be in the Ford Performance booth at Autorama as well. Will be interesting to check those out in person.

    Speaking of engines, hopefully the parts needed to start mocking up the drivetrain in my build, including the T-56, will be arriving soon. That’s next up.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-19-2018 at 04:30 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  20. #140
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Great update Paul - thanks.

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

  21. #141
    I put 1.25 spacers on mine. I have the body and wheels on it and the fit is good. I think yours will look great as well. I got mine from EZAccessory (not all vendors will ship to Canada ) they have a huge selection on spacers.
    Anyway if you are going IRS on a coupe plan on a 1 - 1.25 hub centric spacer if you use the FFR wheels. Only advantage with the 1.25 spacer is I did not have to cut the studs.
    David W

  22. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post

    On a separate note, the Fast 'N Loud "winning" Pantera and (I think he said...) Factory Five Snap-On Coupe will be in the Ford Performance booth at Autorama as well. Will be interesting to check those out in person.
    I've spent an unreasonable amount of time reviewing the Snap-on build videos on Youtube, specifically the Aluminator install. Since (I believe) it is more closely related to the Gen 2, it may have a better chance of fitment than the Gen 3 Coyote. Would appreciate and G2 you can gather along those lines, especially the height clearance. A guy (Kevin Phelps) on the FB forum just purchase an Aluminator from one of the popular vendors (can I mention names?), so we'll get some first-hand info from him soon. Unfortunately his kit isn't delivered yet, so it'll be a while...

  23. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    I put 1.25 spacers on mine. I have the body and wheels on it and the fit is good. I think yours will look great as well. I got mine from EZAccessory (not all vendors will ship to Canada ) they have a huge selection on spacers.
    Anyway if you are going IRS on a coupe plan on a 1 - 1.25 hub centric spacer if you use the FFR wheels. Only advantage with the 1.25 spacer is I did not have to cut the studs.
    David W
    Thanks for rubbing it in. Hey, two out of three isn't that bad. Seriously though, I mocked mine up with the exact wheels and tires I'll be using. 1-inch is good. 1.25-inch would be OK too I think. But I really wanted to use the Eibach spacers and they only come in 1 or 1.5. The 1.5's would maybe work, but just not worth it to me to chance having the tires rubbing the edges of the wheel wells. I agree though. Anyone doing a Gen 3 Coupe build with the FF wheels should look at spacers. Multiple build threads have reported the same thing. Just looks better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dlirium View Post
    I've spent an unreasonable amount of time reviewing the Snap-on build videos on Youtube, specifically the Aluminator install. Since (I believe) it is more closely related to the Gen 2, it may have a better chance of fitment than the Gen 3 Coyote. Would appreciate and G2 you can gather along those lines, especially the height clearance. A guy (Kevin Phelps) on the FB forum just purchase an Aluminator from one of the popular vendors (can I mention names?), so we'll get some first-hand info from him soon. Unfortunately his kit isn't delivered yet, so it'll be a while...
    The engine in the Snap-On build is the 5.2L Aluminator 5.2 XS crate engine. Uses a standard Coyote block, but after that the similarity to any of the base Coyote crates ends. Different crank, rods, pistons, heads, cams, intake, etc. Awesome engine. It doesn't have DI, so that potential interference isn't an issue. I don't believe height is an issue either. Fits in the Gen 3 Coupe OK. I can't get past the $16K street price though. Roughly $10K for 80-100 HP that I probably can't use anyway for my street driving. Not saying I haven't looked at it, but just not going to do it. If you are going to go power adder, it probably is a better deal though than buying the base Coyote Aluminator at $10K and adding your own supercharger or whatever.

    On a side note, just for interest, I think everyone knows the base Coyote crate engines are standard Mustang GT engines off the production line from the Ford Essex Engine plant in Windsor, Ontario. Most go to the Mustang assembly plant not far across the river in Flat Rock, Michigan. The guy from Ford told us all of the rest of the Coyote crate engines are built at a subcontractor in Livonia, Michigan. Same place they build the new Ford GT V-6 engine. He said it's a first rate operation and does very nice work. Mentioned they also assemble LS crate engines for GM there. Interesting.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-08-2018 at 12:37 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  24. #144
    I know the supercharger height fitment was close. So close they trimmed the underside of the hood. I don't believe they had that problem with the aluminator. I don't have the body on yet but I can give measurements on the motor installed if that would help.
    Nolan
    65 coupe Gen 3 "Phoenix" build
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...032#post297032

    818 s (with r windscreen ) 350 rwhp. Registered and street legal (SOLD)

  25. #145
    Hi Edward ...................Don't know if you have every heard of Vanguard Motor sales..................but they have a finished Factory Five type 65 Coupe for sale ...........might whet your appetite to watch it....Some Interesting feeatures...some of which you have already incorporated into your build some you haven't ...worth a watch

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-5Xi5wUUkI

    They also have a Superformance type 65 as well ..........some of the details on this one are interesting..........bottom mounted cooling fans ? Roush 427 stroker, 6 speed trans.......

    https://inventory.vanguardmotorsales...superformance#

  26. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonince1960 View Post
    Hi Edward ...................Don't know if you have every heard of Vanguard Motor sales..................but they have a finished Factory Five type 65 Coupe for sale ...........might whet your appetite to watch it....Some Interesting feeatures...some of which you have already incorporated into your build some you haven't ...worth a watch

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-5Xi5wUUkI

    They also have a Superformance type 65 as well ..........some of the details on this one are interesting..........bottom mounted cooling fans ? Roush 427 stroker, 6 speed trans.......

    https://inventory.vanguardmotorsales...superformance#
    Yes, I'm quite familiar with Vanguard. They're on the other side of town from me, but have been to their location several times. The first Factory Five Daytona I sat in was at their place. That was a couple years ago and I'm sure it's long gone. The black Factory Five you linked to looks pretty nice. It's a previous generation with the older style IRS. But whoever built it did a good job. Don't see it on their website so it's probably gone too. They turn stuff over pretty quickly there. The red Superformance is still showing in stock. The Superformance Coupe is cool. Very polished and production car finished quality. They took a few liberties with the body to achieve it. But that's OK. It's a great looking car. Certainly quite different than the more race inspired Factory Five version. Especially the interior obviously. I'm trying to find a kind of middle ground between the two. And I won't be spending quite that much. Thanks for posting.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  27. #147

    Preparing for Engine Mockup Plus

    Lots going on since my last update. Not the least of which was oral surgery after cracking a molar eating breakfast cereal of all things. Happened before Christmas, but our dentist wasn’t able to save it and it was hurting like crazy. So he recommended I meet his friend the oral surgeon. All over and mostly healed. Feels much better. Meanwhile, spending lots of money the past week or so. Making a dent in the shopping list. That’s my story anyway. I think my wife mostly believes me. No worries. She’s very supportive. I have everything I need, and tomorrow plan to drop in the engine/trans mockup. But first some other updates.

    Several have commented about the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X seats I’ve decided to use, and specifically asked about the mounting brackets. I ended up with Corbeau C22059 Single Slider Brackets. These are one of three recommended universal brackets for these seats, and result in about 1-inch added height. Perfect for what I wanted. This is a view from the bottom. They bolt to the seat at four corners, and then flat to the floor of the cockpit. Fit very well. Also visible here is the wiring and relay for the factory installed seat heaters.



    While waiting for parts to arrive, did some more planning for the instrument panel. It’s starting to come into focus. I want to stay with the basic Factory Five design but try to (hopefully) class it up a little. I’m planning to cover the dash with vinyl like the seats with 1/8-inch cushion on the face of the dash. I'll work with the interior shop I’ve used before to add some red stitching. Also like the seats. Same for door cards. For the dash itself, I’m going to follow my usual practice and hide all the fasteners. Just something I like to do. Once I finalize the gauge layout, I’m planning to make a new piece and install it flush into the dash held with a doubler on the back. I appreciate the Factory Five design that uses separate panels for the various gauge options and a common dash. But I want to clean it up just a little and the doubler will make it a little more solid.

    First thing I’ve actually done is to attach the dash ends. I used hammer set flush solid aluminum rivets and put the first pass of filler on the edges. The vinyl will be wrapped around for a clean seamless look. I’m going to add an extension on the bottom center for switches and the HVAC controls. Just playing with some paper patterns right now. I’m probably going to use the brow piece. But we’ll see. Also tentatively planning to fab a glovebox similar to #8674. Handy to have plus I like the look and I think there’s room. Still very much a work in progress, but where I’m at right now.







    In the general category of why I could never build one of these in the several hundred hours suggested by Factory Five, spent some time cleaning up the door hinges. They’re nicely made and once installed only the arms show. I decided I wanted to remove the seam and small gaps on the visible corners of the arms, making them look solid. Well from one side anyway. Since I don’t weld, took them to the guy who’s done welding for me before and he ran a small bead along all eight corners. Then ground, sanded, filed, etc. (I’m not really too well equipped for this sort of thing) until they looked like this. Now off to powder coat and I think they’ll look good. Absolutely unnecessary and non-valued added work. But something I wanted to do.



    After looking at every option I could find, went ahead and ordered the Factory Five heat/defroster/A-C setup. There are a number of systems out there, e.g. Vintage Air, etc. I just wanted to make sure I had the best option. In the end, the space available in the Gen 3 Coupe is very limited and the Factory Five offering looks like the best and maybe only solution. I’m going with it. Also found out the Gen 3 Coupe side windows are now available for sale. The design is firmed up and fabrication and powder coat underway. Hopefully I’ll see them in a few weeks. But no rush. It will be a while before I need them. The part number BTW is 60371 Gen 3 Coupe Side Window Components.

    So on to the engine/trans mockup. I talked about the Gen 2 Coyote block I borrowed in a previous update. I ordered the Moroso pan and pickup, QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing, and Tremec T-56 transmission. I was able to score a great price on the QuickTime bell housing on eBay. A shop in California had one NIB for not that much more than the Tremec aluminum bell. So I grabbed it. Arrived today and exactly as advertised. As I understand the aluminum bell for the T-56/Coyote combination is being discontinued. So the QuickTime appears to be the only solution going forward. One thing I did notice. This is an SFI approved bell housing, and has a full circle with a line of bolts on the bottom. I suspect it's going to hang below the oil pan. I don't know yet how much it may hang below the frame. I'll find out when I mock it up and decide what to do. Probably some trimming will be required.

    The T-56 I bought is actually a Ford Performance M-7003-M6266, but is a Tremec TUET11010 with a Ford Performance label. Just picked it up today and it looks good. It’s bigger and heavier than the TKO’s I’ve used, as expected. Nothing to trim off though, which is nice. One minor thing I was a little surprised about. It came with a metal plug with O-ring and bolted retainer in the mechanical speed sensor location. Not the usual rubber shipping plug. Nothing to do there. Pieces look like this right now:





    Tomorrow I’ll get things bolted together and dropped into the chassis.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-14-2018 at 07:13 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  28. #148
    Paul - Are all of the aluminum dash pieces that you show in your photos above included in the full kit? Or have you added some of your own already? Your Gen 3 dash looks a little more "complete" to me than some of the Gen 2 coupe photos I've seen...

    Thanks - Matt

  29. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt K. View Post
    Paul - Are all of the aluminum dash pieces that you show in your photos above included in the full kit? Or have you added some of your own already? Your Gen 3 dash looks a little more "complete" to me than some of the Gen 2 coupe photos I've seen...

    Thanks - Matt
    Everything in the pictures came with the kit except the white pattern piece between the dash and the transmission tunnel.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  30. #150

    Engine/Trans Mock-up Installed

    Today I was able to get the block/bell housing/T-56 assembled and installed into the chassis. I don’t have a flywheel, clutch, or throw-out bearing installed since the block is just a temporary mockup. So that made the assembly pretty easy. Without that stuff in the way, I could confirm the input shaft length into the pilot bearing. All went into the chassis pretty easily once I removed the shifter from the T-56. I thought it might go in with it still installed, but I was wrong about that one. Did the installation myself. First time I’ve tried that. Wasn’t too hard since just a block and not the whole engine. But help to tug, push, pull at all the right times is certainly a better choice. Not too much to say except post some pics and offer some observations.

    A Coyote without heads, intake, and front dress fits pretty easily.



    As mentioned, I had to remove the shifter mid-installation. Don’t make that mistake. Take it off before dropping the engine in. Way easier. Plus as I found out, it needs to be turned around. Perfect location for the shifter. No mid-shift needed (or possible) with the T-56/Coyote combo.



    I have the Coyote spacers in the motor mounts. You can actually see them in the upper corners of this pic. The Moroso pan is a little above the frame rails. It will be slightly lower when I get the real engine installed. My mock-up block doesn’t have the pan gasket/windage tray assembly. So the pan is slightly higher without that added thickness. Engine is sitting nice and level.



    The QuickTime RM-8080 does extend below the frame however. You can see how much here. I’ll be trimming some/most of this off. Will affect the bottom three bolts, and in theory I guess invalidate the SFI rating. But not an issue for my use. I wouldn’t want that extra amount hanging below the frame. All seven of those bolts in this location are just holding the block plate to the bell. None are actual bolts into the block.



    The only real issue I had was the transmission mounting plate. The picture in the assembly manual showed it upside down. Once I figured that out, found that with it mounted on top of the frame tabs, the shifter was hard against the bottom of the transmission tunnel frame. Had to trim it slightly and put below the frame tabs. Height for the T-56 in that position was perfect.



    Test fit the kit supplied driveshaft and it’s fine. Don’t need quite that much slip joint exposed for IRS, but it still has plenty of engagement. Pinion angle is fine. All good.



    Overall bottom view of the installed drivetrain. The T-56 fit has easy clearance all around. Not at all the tight fit like the Roadster. Very nice. While I don’t want to ever have to do it, I think it would come out pretty easily without removing the engine. Clutch changes, etc. should be relatively routine. With the rear mounting plate removed, the transmission is pretty free to move around and swing out.



    A few details to wrap up, but now onward with fuel and brake lines. No big surprises.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-14-2018 at 09:35 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  31. #151
    Senior Member
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    Aug 2012
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    Grand Rapids, MI
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    153
    Paul,
    Looks like it went well. Way better than the 351W install. The trans mount looks different, maybe a later design. From your photos it may be that the Coyote sits a bit further forward.
    Jim

  32. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim1855 View Post
    Paul,
    Looks like it went well. Way better than the 351W install. The trans mount looks different, maybe a later design. From your photos it may be that the Coyote sits a bit further forward.
    Jim
    I was holding my breath after the problems you reported. But no issues other than the easily solved ones I mentioned. The Coyote is 1-2 inches forward compared to a small block. I know this from the Roadster builds. Not sure where the difference is, but the shifter/transmission ends up further forward.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  33. #153


    Not a waxer
    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Bloomington, Indiana
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    3,406
    Great, useful info Paul. Thanks!

    RE: bellhousing, yeah you're going to want to modify it. I had a roadster delivered to me recently that we couldn't get out of the trailer without raising the tongue 20+ inches because the bell was making hard contact with the trailer floor once the rear wheels started down the ramp. I can only imagine what would happen with a high speed bump or steep parking lot apron

    A couple of times now I've looked at pics and seen the reflection of your floor which makes it appear that the chassis has been painted with a ghost checkered flag motif



    Jeff

  34. #154
    I better schedule a shop tour so I can see this build in progress! If I don't hurry I will be coming over to see a completed roadster AND a completed coupe!!!
    Higgy

  35. #155
    Senior Member
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    Grand Rapids, MI
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    153
    Paul,

    As you indicated the Coyote must sit forward on the mounts. Daryl moved his 315W forward 1-2 inches. Nice to have some confirmation and the shift towers are now in the same place.

    The downside of the 315W/T-56 install in the Gen 3 Coupe is it requires significant engine mount mods. If you consider that the trans tunnel and transmission are both tapered to the back, moving the engine forward eliminates the interference.

    Not sure about the trans mount but it sure didn't seem to work in Coupe #20. New mounts were made here too.

    It is obvious that the Gen 3 Coupe was designed around the Coyote/Tremec package, not a bad thing. The Windsor based motors with the T-56 were not a primary consideration.

    Jim

  36. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by HiggyMK4#???? View Post
    I better schedule a shop tour so I can see this build in progress! If I don't hurry I will be coming over to see a completed roadster AND a completed coupe!!!
    Higgy
    Not too much risk of that if you visit within the next year. Kind of like building a house. The progress is big and obvious at first. But then the changes slow down when really getting into the details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    A couple of times now I've looked at pics and seen the reflection of your floor which makes it appear that the chassis has been painted with a ghost checkered flag motif

    Jeff
    Funny. I hadn't noticed that before. Nothing mysterious going on.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-15-2018 at 10:51 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  37. #157
    Sounds like the use of the Quicktime bellhousung is going to cause some grief. There's a ton of material to hack off. What's the rationale of using this part over the Ford Racing aluminum part that is a more perfect fit. Planning on some high revving, clutch dumping hard acceleration??? Otherwise, the Ford piece would be MORE than adequate for the job at hand.

  38. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Truthbetold18 View Post
    Sounds like the use of the Quicktime bellhousung is going to cause some grief. There's a ton of material to hack off. What's the rationale of using this part over the Ford Racing aluminum part that is a more perfect fit. Planning on some high revving, clutch dumping hard acceleration??? Otherwise, the Ford piece would be MORE than adequate for the job at hand.
    Won't hurt the bell housing to remove the excess length on the bottom. I'll take care of it when the mock-up is out. Easy enough to do. QuickTime doesn't offer a non-SFI version bell for the T-56. For the TKO they do, and that bottom circle is the major difference. This isn't the best picture, but you can see in the picture below from my #8674 build how the non-SFI TKO version doesn't extend below the oil pan. There's only enough room for two bolts below the block. One on each end. If I trim this T-56 version flush with the oil pain it will still have more housing left than this one and two bolts on each end. Probably not SFI approved at that point, but I'm not worried about that. Still extremely robust.

    For your other question, by all means use the aluminum bell if that's what you want. I like the QuickTime products even though I highly doubt I'll ever push the driveline enough that it's ever needed. I've used them on three of my builds. For this specific build, as I mentioned in my post, my understanding is the aluminum bell for the Coyote/T-56 has been discontinued. There are maybe still some out there, but seems the QuickTime bell will be the only solution going forward for this combination. For the TKO/Coyote combination, the aluminum bell is still an active part.

    Then it becomes like the non-SFI version.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-15-2018 at 12:56 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  39. #159
    Senior Member Duke's Avatar
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    310
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Won't hurt the bell housing to remove the excess length on the bottom. I'll take care of it when the mock-up is out. Easy enough to do.
    Paul, do yourself a favor and cut it off. I have the same setup in my roadster and when I had the suspension set too low (prior to alignment & corner balancing) I caught mine on the lip of the driveway for the state inspectors garage. I was only doing about 2mph, but it stopped the car in it's tracks and bent it about 1/8" or so. I'm tempted to build a skid plate or cut mine down too.

  40. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Paul, do yourself a favor and cut it off. I have the same setup in my roadster and when I had the suspension set too low (prior to alignment & corner balancing) I caught mine on the lip of the driveway for the state inspectors garage. I was only doing about 2mph, but it stopped the car in it's tracks and bent it about 1/8" or so. I'm tempted to build a skid plate or cut mine down too.
    Thanks for the comments. I will definitely be trimming mine. Sorry to hear what happened with yours. That's a beautiful build. Don't be dinging it up.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

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