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Thread: Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: Main Power, Gen 3 Coyote Progress

  1. #401
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    in the first picture the cover looks like it really cleans up the look but then in the second picture well, not so much. I think you will need to see it with the body and hood in place to decide.
    oh, and as always great pictures and information.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  2. #402
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Doesn’t look too bad. A big canvas to be artistic with...

    As usual, very very nice work thus far Paul. Appreciate the Gen 3 info. I might be ordering a 33 for my bride and I’m considering that motor.

    Chris
    Last edited by cgundermann; 09-13-2018 at 09:12 AM.
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

  3. #403
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    in the first picture the cover looks like it really cleans up the look but then in the second picture well, not so much. I think you will need to see it with the body and hood in place to decide.
    oh, and as always great pictures and information.
    David W
    Thanks. Yea I'm not sure how different it will look with the body and front cowl since the front tips up and exposes everything pretty much like the pictures show. But I agree. I put the unmodified cover back in the box and will decide when things are more finalized. Can validate the fit and what it looks like. What I did learn is that I will use at least some of it.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  4. #404
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    I’ve been slammed at work and just caught up with your thread and wow. Huge progress!

    Id say make cardboard template. Paint it black and see how it looks before your cut into that plastic engine cover. I actually like it better without. I’m not offended by the wires. It’s growing on me actually. Also I like the look of the intake and it covers that up. Maybe even something fabricated from aluminum might look cool too if it doesn't cause interference. One other thought would be maybe a body matching color on an engine cover or shroud will bring some continuity into that area and draw attention to the cover and away from the wires if you don’t like the wires.

    Working this stuff out is half the fun I’m sure. Enjoy!
    Last edited by P100DHG; 09-15-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date 8/2018 - Delivery: Jan 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

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  6. #405
    Member Paul G's Avatar
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    While I haven't officially mounted my computer yet I did a mock a couple months ago, after looking at my 2016 Mustang GT the computer is mounted just off the front corner of the passenger head, far enough forward from the exhaust and tuck in, that is general area where I'll be mounting my computer soon as thing cool off a bit , 107 in Phx today too hot right now.

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  8. #406
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G View Post
    While I haven't officially mounted my computer yet I did a mock a couple months ago, after looking at my 2016 Mustang GT the computer is mounted just off the front corner of the passenger head, far enough forward from the exhaust and tuck in, that is general area where I'll be mounting my computer soon as thing cool off a bit, 107 in Phx today too hot right now.
    Agreed. Ford designed the harness on the engine for the PCM to be mounted in that general area. The 2018 is similar. Some guys take apart the harness so it can be re-routed and mount the PCM on/near the firewall. But I'm not going to try that. Not just because I don't want to break into the cable, but also because the firewall area (and behind) is also really crowded plus there'd be 4-5 feet of extra harness to deal with from the PDB. Yesterday I completed a mount for my PCM and will show some details in my next update. It ended up in a similar location between the frame rails as I showed in a previous update and picture. It's tight with everything else going on. But I think it will work.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  9. #407
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Another Gen 3 Coyote Install Update

    Plugging away on details for the Gen 3 Coyote installation. Have basically determined how I’m going to deal with two major items: PCM mounting/cable routing and cold air intake.

    PCM mounting: Some of this I’ve talked about before. The large harness and connector coming off the engine terminates near the front corner of the RH head. Without modifying the cable, really no choice but to put the PCM in that vicinity. I know some guys unwrap the cable and then mount the PCM in the firewall or PS footbox area. Thought briefly about that. But the harness is complex (wires exit along its path for each injector, coil pack, multiple sensors, and now the new DI hardware) and I just don’t want to dive into it. Plus it’s already congested in the firewall area and beyond with the A/C and heat, accessories I’ve added, etc. Plus I'd have a whole bunch of excess cable between the PCM and PDB to deal with. So I’m staying with mounting it near the RH front of the engine. Note this is nearly identical to the location used on #8674 and how FFR shows in their instructions for the Roadster. I know some are concerned about the headers in that area. But it hasn’t proven to be an issue. These modules are made for the harsh underhood environment. Within reason of course. Note also this is the same general area that Ford mounts them in the Mustang. What’s interesting though is in the Mustang it’s packed in with a lot of other stuff and doesn’t appear that it would have much airflow around it. As opposed to ours that are more free-standing. So seems to me it’s completely safe there.

    So for the actual mounting, the new Bosch PCM with the Gen 3 only has two mounting ears near the connectors, versus the four the previous version has. Plus they’re not too friendly to attach to IMO. I decided to make a bracket that sandwiches the PCM and holds it suspended under the frame rail in the area mentioned. After some patterns, prototypes, and one fail, have finalized on a piece of 1-1/2 inch right angle aluminum riveted to the frame rail, and a wraparound bracket made from mild steel. I have nutserts in the aluminum bracket and will use 1/8 inch cushioning material where the PCM is contacted. Looks like this:





    My first approach was to mount the PCM facing down, e.g. wire connections on the bottom. I thought it looked a little neater. Like this:



    But after thinking about it a couple days and sitting and staring at it for awhile (that again…) decided that wasn’t such a good plan. The wiring was way too congested with everything else, no clear path for the large harness that needs to go back to the PDB, plus the connectors and wires would be the closest thing to the header area. So flipped it over and this is what I’m going with:



    This will get cleaned up a bunch for the final installation. The large center connector is from the engine, obviously. The front connector goes to the PDB. That harness needs to be re-configured quite a bit. I’ll unwrap it and bring the starter and fan wires back to the PDB area. Probably also the engine connections (alternator, MAF, etc.). That will make the cable a little skinnier where it's visible FWIW. I’ll run the cable along the outside of the top frame rail, along the bottom of the firewall, and to the PDB near the center of the firewall. I was hoping to hide the cable a little more than that, but just not in the cards. There will be heater and A/C hoses all over the place in the same area. So I’m thinking it’s no big deal. The rear connector, BTW, is only for the O2 sensors. Ford changed how they’re wired again. So all three Gen Coyotes have been different. In this case, the wires go directly from here to the sensors. It too, though, will need to be reconfigured to be optimal. That’s as far as I’m going to go for now. When the engine mockup comes out, I’ll get everything mounted and wired for good.

    Cold air intake: Some of this I mentioned before too. The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote points up 8-9 degrees more than before. Plus the cowl is relatively close on the underside. I looked at several of the Mustang aftermarket cold air intake kits, but didn't see one that would fit. The Spectre setup FFR has in their instructions and I have in #8674 won’t fit either. They do mention a MAF tube from Treadstone Performance. In looking at that piece plus other items on their website, came up with a combination that I hoped would fit. Received the parts today, and all is good. I’m impressed with the quality of the parts too. I’m especially pleased the MAF tube has rolled ends. So properly clamped they shouldn’t come apart. (Reference “Ride of Shame” thread for #8674…) The right angle coupler is very robust. I’ll need to add a connector for the PCV hose, but that’s easy enough. The parts I received are:

    • S35090BLK 90 Degree Silicone Hose Coupler 3.50" - 3.50" (103411-128578) Black
    • MAPHL35 MAF Mass Air Flow Adapter Pipe, 3.50" Low (103748-129055) Polished aluminum
    • AF10044BLK Air Filter Medium 3.5" Neck (104214-129638) Black

    Factory Five also sells this same Treadstone MAF tube. Their part number 16403. They also sell a 90deg Silicone Hose – FFR#16404, and Coyote Air Filter – FFR#16608. But I don't know if those two are the same has what I bought directly from Treadstone. I had to cut 1-inch off the right angle coupler where it plugs onto the throttle body. It was too long as I suspected from their pictures. With that, it fits up exactly like I hoped. Based on pictures and measurements taken previously, it will fit under the front cowl.





    The cold air intake leaves just enough room for the Moroso cooling system expansion tank. It’s tight, but not quite as tight as the angle on this picture indicates.



    On a related note, on the Treadstone Performance website they promoted the use of a honeycomb airflow straightener in the MAF tube. Installed at the neck of the tube on the air filter side to clean up the air going through the sensor. Did a little Google searching, and maybe has some merit. Supposedly improves MAF readings at lower RPM's. So added one to my order. Thinking I'll just keep it aside for the moment. But something I'll take a look at down the road. Next up is to make brackets for the Moroso expansion tank and finalize the Odyssey battery mount. Then the engine will come back out.
    Last edited by edwardb; 09-18-2018 at 03:12 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  10. #408
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    I had initially mounted my Moroso tank on the angle frame at the front DS. It is solid with nice bracket fab, but I don't like how it looks at an angle. Now I am reconfiguring and see that I can squeeze it in where you propose yours. I am completely racking my brain on how to build a bracket. Lots of angles and a fair moment on the tank mounting tab due to the weight of the full recovery tank. I am interested to see what you come up with. Also, I am going to try an F150 upper radiator hose. I am thinking it will take the turns better. Just curious. WHat is your battery plan. Is that brake line(to front PS) going to be in your way?
    Last edited by jdavis500; 09-21-2018 at 10:52 AM.

  11. #409
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    kind of like a chess match - have to think a few moves ahead as you figure out where everything goes. All part of the fun with the build.
    as I have said many times "if it was easy everyone would have one"
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  12. #410
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdavis500 View Post
    I had initially mounted my Moroso tank on the angle frame at the front DS. It is solid with nice bracket fab, but I don't like how it looks at an angle. Now I am reconfiguring and see that I can squeeze it in where you propose yours. I am completely racking my brain on how to build a bracket. Lots of angles and a fair moment on the tank mounting tab due to the weight of the full recovery tank. I am interested to see what you come up with. Also, I am going to try an F150 upper radiator hose. I am thinking it will take the turns better. Just curious. WHat is your battery plan. Is that brake line(to front PS) going to be in your way?
    Just finishing up the bracket I came up with for the Moroso tank. You're right, lots of angles and an interesting challenge. I'm sure there are multiple ways it could be done. But I'll show what I came up with in the next couple days. The upper radiator hose I'm showing here is what came with the 2018 control pack and it snakes around the tank location perfectly. That was lucky. I'm also working on my battery mount today. I'm using a smaller Odyssey battery and a mount made for it. It fits in the same general area as Factory Five shows for the stock mounting. The brake line isn't an issue. The battery will be forward of where that crosses. I'll have pictures of that in the next couple of days as well.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  13. #411
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Engine Mockup, Battery, Moroso Tank

    Today I finished everything I wanted to do planning wire and hose routing, accessory mounting, etc. So lifted the engine back out of the engine bay and onto the stand for now. Easy enough to do without a bell housing and transmission in the way. Put the chassis back on the lift. Good to have it back there. Man I am definitely spoiled. First thing I did once I had it out was install the M-7600-C pilot bearing and check the fit of the M-7560-T46 flywheel. Everything fits fine so that little issue is completely closed as far as I’m concerned. I had the pilot bearing in the freezer and it drove right in using a 1-inch socket around the perimeter. Also had the clutch dowels in the freezer so drove those into the flywheel. Tomorrow I’m going to put the accessories on the engine (alternator, A/C pump, KRC power steering) and then start working on the modification to the Moroso oil pan pickup.





    Here is a picture of the Odyssey PC925T battery I’m using. Relatively small and easily fits in this location. Listed as 28 lbs, but I haven’t weighed it. Since it’s AGM, I can use the same CTEK 3300 charger I’ve been using for the Optima in #8674. After looking at a number of choices, including the kit provided battery tray, decided to go with this Artec Industries OY9251 battery mount. Had to drill new holes in the base because the ones they had didn’t line up with the frame. But that was easy. Held in place with four heavy duty 1/4-inch nutserts. I’ll have it powder coated before final installation.



    Also finished the mounting bracket for the Moroso radiator expansion tank. After thinking through several approaches, this is what I went with. The mounting location isn’t real handy, so took some unusual shapes and angles to get it done. The main mount is .090 aluminum, and the braces are .052 aluminum with a 1/2-thick aluminum piece between. My little H-F brake won’t touch these thicknesses, so bent all the pieces in my bench vise using angle iron and a wood block and hammer. Kind of dings the aluminum up a bit. But will be completely hidden plus powder coated. There are two 5/16-inch nutserts for the flange mount on the tank, and then the bottom piece fits into the receptacle on the bottom of the tank along with a piece of cut heater hose for a cushion. Now that I have the engine out, I can reach the mounting location and will install with three heavy duty 5/16-inch nutserts. Same kind as shown on the mount itself. Just with the clamps, it’s rock sold so I’m confident it will be OK.







    So last night as I was wrapping up this mount, I realized how much lower it is than the same tank in #8674. Not sure how or why I didn't see this before. Further checking shows the top of the tank is basically even with the “T” connection on the LH side of the engine where the hose out the bottom of the tank is connected. Visible in the last picture above with the black cap. Since this is the intended fill path for coolant through the cap on the expansion tank, and fluid isn't going to go uphill any further than the level in the tank (at least when gravity is the only motivation) decided I might have a problem. My first inclination was to go back to the drawing board. Ugh. But with the time and money invested in this setup so far, not giving up so easily. With the available space, the frame design including the large angle braces across the opening, and everything else that needs to fit into this same real estate, there’s no easy option that I can see that would raise this tank any higher.

    Did a whole bunch of searching, both in the forums and otherwise, and thought it about it a bunch. Here’s my conclusion: The only real problem will be the initial coolant fill and subsequent flush/re-fills down the road. The heater hose connection just above the “T” where the hose from the tank attaches (also visible in the last picture above), can be removed and coolant filled there with a funnel or whatever. Although not ideal, since it happens pretty rarely, not a big deal. Once the system is full and sealed and under pressure, the expansion tank will still do what it’s intended to do. It will still burp the cooling system from the connection on top of the engine and top of the radiator. It will still accept excess coolant as it heats and expands, and will be drawn back into the system as it cools. In that regard, no different than a standard overflow tank that is often mounted quite low in the engine compartment. I thought about installing the kit provided T-filler in the upper radiator hose and use that for filling. But that adds two more joints in the hose plus the cap. I can live with using the heater hose connection.

    I contacted the Ford Performance help desk to see what their take was and if they thought my thinking made sense. Not much help to be honest. Response was “mount the tank as high as you can,” “mount it the same height as the engine,” (asked what part of the engine, but no answer), and “mount it higher than the tanks on the radiator.” It is. That’s not an issue. Because of the forward location and angle of the radiator, the side tanks are well below the expansion tank. That was all I got. No stoppers. But no firm endorsement of my plan either.

    Bottom line, even though the expansion tank is lower than ideal and will take a little special handing for the initial fill, I don’t see it working any differently than the FFR supplied T-filler and overflow tank. Actually it’s better because it has the provision for burping via the engine and radiator connections. Anyone have any thoughts about this and reasons why I shouldn’t go ahead with mounting the Moroso tank where pictured?
    Last edited by edwardb; 09-24-2018 at 10:27 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  14. #412
    Senior Member shark92651's Avatar
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    Impressive mounting bracket, especially for vise bending!

  15. #413
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    Is the expansion tank pressurized? and if it is just connected to the cooling system with a hose it needs to be high up. But if you have a rad cap on the upper rad hose and have a non-presurized recovery tank it can be lower. The vacuum in the cooling system will pull the coolant up from the tank.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  16. #414
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark92651 View Post
    Impressive mounting bracket, especially for vise bending!
    Thanks. Just a little patience and more time than I want to admit. Something us retired guys usually have.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    Is the expansion tank pressurized? and if it is just connected to the cooling system with a hose it needs to be high up. But if you have a rad cap on the upper rad hose and have a non-presurized recovery tank it can be lower. The vacuum in the cooling system will pull the coolant up from the tank.
    David W
    Thanks for the input. Not quite following though. Yes, the tank is pressurized. Evidenced by (1) 21 PSI rated cap and usual "Don't open if hot" warning label, and (2) entire cooling system is closed. No vents to atmosphere. This diagram is the Mustang/Coyote cooling system. The OE tank at the top LH corner is replaced with the aftermarket Moroso tank I'm using that's made for that purpose. The hose connections are all be exactly the same. The hose from the tank to the top of the radiator has a check valve. Allows air from the radiator to vent to the expansion tank. But no flow the other direction. This diagram is marked 2011, but best I can tell nothing has changed since. Also ignore the yellow annotation. That's showing a heater bypass that Ford recommends if not using a heater

    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  17. #415
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    FWIW.. I mounted my higher as I wanted the air to be trapped there...
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  18. #416
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves View Post
    FWIW.. I mounted my higher as I wanted the air to be trapped there...
    Thanks Erik. Appreciate the input. Not sure I understand though. Air is going to be forced into the expansion tank by pressure through the two vent lines discussed and also pictured in the above diagram. The several inches of difference we're talking about here (compared to how it's installed in my Roadster) shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something?
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  19. #417
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    More Gen 3 Coyote Progress

    Wasn’t planning to do an update today. But made some good progress today that I thought might be interesting. Got the engine off the shop crane and onto the engine stand. With that done, started on the front accessories. Installed the KRC power steering, A/C compressor, and standard Coyote alternator. Good news, everything fits. No surprises with the Gen 3 Coyote. Couple of notes for each.

    The KRC kit is their 66302125 Ford Boss 302 Coyote Hydraulic Power Steering Kit. Comes with the pump and pulley, reservoir, mounting bracket, new water pump pulley, and serpentine belt. Note I'm nearly positive this is the same kit that Factory Five supplies with their Coyote power steering kit. I just didn't happen to go that way because I wanted to source my own rack and lines. I have this same kit setup on #8674. But KRC made some significant changes. (Plus raised the price. ) They now only supply their aluminum Elite pump vs. the steel pump on #8674. They’ve also added an integral reservoir, which is super nice. One less thing to mount in the engine compartment and one less hose to deal with. One of the really nice things about the KRC setup is their changeable flow valves. Allows you to fine tune the amount of boost from the system. Unfortunately, the kit comes with their standard 2.22 GPM flow valve. That’s way too much boost for our cars. I changed it to the 1.18 GPM (ID Mark 4) 253040000 flow valve. Same as I have in #8674, which I really like, and what others using the KRC setup have reported works well. For the installation, I had to cut about 1/4-inch off the end of the three mounting screws. They were bottoming in the mounting holes in the head. Don’t recall doing this before. But no big deal. For the water pump pulley, I cut off the Ford screws that were removed from the head and used those for the pulley mount. I like the hex head screws way better than the Allen head screws KRC provided, and they just happened to be the right size with integral washers. Nice. They're the same style as the mounting screws on the OE pulley but are too short for the thicker KRC pulley. I painted the heads of the five KRC supplied cap screws with my trusty Eastwood chassis black. The black oxide rusts quite quickly. A close look at #8674 will prove that. Finally, the pulley on the pump is listed as “press on” but there are threads in the pump shaft and #8674 has a flange head screw installed there. Don’t remember if it came with the kit or not, but this kit didn’t supply one. Quick trip to Ace and that was dealt with.

    Nothing much to say about mounting the A/C pump or the alternator. In both cases, just followed the directions and all went together OK. One thing I find somewhat interesting. The serpentine belt driving the water pump and alternator from the crankshaft uses a very typical serpentine tensioning idler pulley. The serpentine belt on the power steering pump, driven from the water pump pulley, is tensioned by adjusting the angle of the pump. The serpentine belt on the A/C pump, driven from the crankshaft, uses a stretching type belt that doesn’t require adjustment or a tensioner. First time I’ve used one of those. Interesting to put on though. Factory Five shows a step-by-step method using a tie-wrap and then turning the crank pulley to roll it on. Worked OK. The final front accessory setup looks pretty crazy. I have no idea why builders get intimidated with the Coyote.



    With that done, flipped the engine over and started working on the Moroso oil pan installation and pickup modification. First thing was to check the fit of the oil pan gasket/windage tray and the Moroso pan. The OE pan for the Gen 3 Coyote is the plastic (composite…) pan I pictured previously with the integral oil pickup and gasket/windage tray. I picked up a Gen 2 gasket/windage tray (part number BR3Z-6710-A) and confirmed it fit fine along with the Moroso pan. All the sealing surfaces are exactly the same and the bolt holes all line up perfectly. Started preliminary work on the pickup mod. First was to confirm the 8491A761 bushing, 1" ID, 1-1/4" OD, 1-1/2" long, that I got from McMaster fit the oil pump inlet. It does. Perfectly. Nice slip fit into the rubber gasket. The ID fits the OD of the Moroso oil pickup tube. So we’re off and running. Tomorrow I plan to get this completely figured out and fixtured for welding. This is the new gasket and you can see the bushing pushed into the oil pump in the lower LH corner of the pic.

    Last edited by edwardb; 09-26-2018 at 06:21 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  20. #418
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    You have a sealed pressurized cooling system that works differently from the older pressurized vented systems that we have on the old Fox Mustang based engines. Your cooling system will be fully pressurized when it is hot and since the coolant expands when it is hot and is non compressible there has to be air in the system to handle the expansion. The air will be at the high point in the system and you want that to be the expansion tank not the engine heads. This is why the tank should be the high point in the cooling system. Hope this make more sense. It is hard to tell from the pictures and I am not familiar with the Coyote engine but you could be Ok.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  21. #419
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Thanks Erik. Appreciate the input. Not sure I understand though. Air is going to be forced into the expansion tank by pressure through the two vent lines discussed and also pictured in the above diagram. The several inches of difference we're talking about here (compared to how it's installed in my Roadster) shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something?
    The tank is is a degas tank.. not an overflow tank as far as I can tell...meaning it's job is to keep any air at the top of the tank. When the car is running there is a continuous flow of water running through the tank. An overflow tank is used to handle the expansion of fluid with a sealed system that has no air and no room for expansion. The Degas tank uses the air at the top of the tank as "expansion" space.... if the tank is lower than your engine the air will get stuck at the top of the motor. The small hose that goes to the top of the degas tank is meant to have air in it not water.

    The expansion/degas tank also has a connection to the cooling system through a by-pass or a heater hose. Therefore, instead of only containing expanded coolant, the expansion tank is actually a part of the complete cooling system and coolant circulates through the tank as it does through the radiator. It’s typically the highest point in the cooling system.

    with the tank lower than the engine I am not sure how you will know the system is full... with the engine off and cap removed, the tank will be full even if there is air in the system.

    just my .02 anyway...
    Last edited by Erik W. Treves; 09-26-2018 at 07:40 AM.
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  22. #420
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    You have a sealed pressurized cooling system that works differently from the older pressurized vented systems that we have on the old Fox Mustang based engines. Your cooling system will be fully pressurized when it is hot and since the coolant expands when it is hot and is non compressible there has to be air in the system to handle the expansion. The air will be at the high point in the system and you want that to be the expansion tank not the engine heads. This is why the tank should be the high point in the cooling system. Hope this make more sense. It is hard to tell from the pictures and I am not familiar with the Coyote engine but you could be Ok.
    David W
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves View Post
    The tank is is a degas tank.. not an overflow tank as far as I can tell...meaning it's job is to keep any air at the top of the tank. When the car is running there is a continuous flow of water running through the tank. An overflow tank is used to handle the expansion of fluid with a sealed system that has no air and no room for expansion. The Degas tank uses the air at the top of the tank as "expansion" space.... if the tank is lower than your engine the air will get stuck at the top of the motor. The small hose that goes to the top of the degas tank is meant to have air in it not water.

    The expansion/degas tank also has a connection to the cooling system through a by-pass or a heater hose. Therefore, instead of only containing expanded coolant, the expansion tank is actually a part of the complete cooling system and coolant circulates through the tank as it does through the radiator. It’s typically the highest point in the cooling system.

    with the tank lower than the engine I am not sure how you will know the system is full... with the engine off and cap removed, the tank will be full even if there is air in the system.

    just my .02 anyway...
    Thanks guys. I really appreciate the explanations you’ve provided. Still trying to digest it all and decide whether to proceed with what I have or not. Here’s a little more information FWIW:

    The current location of the tank in the Coupe (and only location that tank is going to get, no place else for it to go…) is a little over 4 inches lower than the exact tank in my Roadster. Maybe seems like more than that from the pictures, but that’s what it is. The Roadster location is roughly exactly the same level as in a Mustang, and has worked perfectly in the now nearly 4,000 miles driven.

    Even in the lower location shown, the following are still below the tank: Upper radiator hose, lower radiator hose connection, thermostat, water pump, complete engine block, all but maybe top 10-15% of the heads, radiator side tanks. The only thing cooling related not below the tank compared to the setup in the Roadster is the filler “T” fitting I described before and the very top of the heads. But looking at pictures of the cooling passages in the heads, they’re all lower than the tank.

    So even though it’s probably less than optimal due to the fill issue already described, I’m still leaning toward using the setup as is. Hopefully I’m not rationalizing myself into a bad decision here. I understand completely about the concern of trapping air in the system. But based on what I’ve described, not sure where that would be. All air would still be lower than the tank and in the end, how is this setup any worse than capping the vents like the Factory Five instructions show? Which I’m not doing. A whole bunch of builds are running around with the vents capped. Obviously makes burping during the initial fill a very important step, in either case. But once that’s done, not sure I see the downside.

    Anything I’m missing? Thanks again.
    Last edited by edwardb; 09-26-2018 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Correct wording
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
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  23. #421
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    The top part of the heads is all cams and valve train so as long as the cooling passages are lower than the degas tank you are good to go.
    would hate to see the engine get wrecked
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  24. #422
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    Coolant Tank

    I appreciate the detail on this topic. Attached is the one other location that will work for the Moroso tank. Much higher, but not pleasing to the eye.

    IMG_1285b.jpg

  25. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdavis500 View Post
    I appreciate the detail on this topic. Attached is the one other location that will work for the Moroso tank. Much higher, but not pleasing to the eye.

    IMG_1285b.jpg
    Thanks for your input. That doesn't look bad, and is one of the locations I considered. It fit OK. But with the different throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote, I had trouble coming up with a CAI that would fit the direction you show. Based on what I could find, I had to take the CAI into that area to fit the available space including the cowl height. It's kind of like a giant Tetris puzzle figuring it all out.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  26. #424
    Senior Member Just puttering's Avatar
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    Post #407
    Quick note on the honeycomb for the air flow, for those that want to go deeper on the subject, look up diy laminar flow fountains. They use drinking straws to smooth the flow of water, similar to the honeycomb for air ! Does it help with the MAF? I have no clue
    Mk3.1 347 AFR 205cc Race Heads EFI siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD 6AL ignition Vortech V-3 3 Link PS/PB

  27. #425
    Top Notch Builder P100DHG's Avatar
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    Sorry for the stupid question but doesn’t factory five figure this stuff out for you and give the proper parts and mounting locations? Sorry I’m a newby
    Gen 3 65 Coupe - Order Date 8/2018 - Delivery: Jan 2019 - P100DHG 65 Coupe Build Thread

  28. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by P100DHG View Post
    Sorry for the stupid question but doesn’t factory five figure this stuff out for you and give the proper parts and mounting locations? Sorry I’m a newby
    Not a stupid question at all. Probably eventually. There aren't specific Coyote instructions for the Gen 3 Coupe. Previously, the Roadster ones were applicable because the frame was similar enough to the prior Coupe. But nothing posted for the Coyote in the Gen 3 Coupe. Much of the prior instructions would still apply, but there are going to be differences. Add to that I'm doing a Gen 3 Coyote, which is way too new. Last I heard from Factory Five they do have a Gen 3 Coyote (installing in a 33 Hot Rod for SEMA as I understand) but don't have the Gen 3 Controls Pack yet. I was very lucky to get mine early.

    Hopefully this comes out the right way and is positive to both you and Factory Five, because it's meant to be. But even a 100% stock build (whatever that means since there are so many different option combinations) will have areas not covered in the instructions to the last detail and will require you to problem solve and figure out. That's the nature of these builds. Hopefully you're prepared for that. If not, you'll be disappointed. I've seen it happen.
    Last edited by edwardb; 09-29-2018 at 04:39 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  29. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    For the brake, I use the 30-inch one from Harbor Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inc...ake-67240.html. Pretty basic. One of these days I'm going to spring for a real box brake. But this one works OK for thin materials and simple fabrication. For cutting, if it fits, I use my bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Where it doesn't fit, use a sabre saw with a metal cutting blade. Straighten and clean the edges on the stationery disk sander. Have done dozens of aluminum parts this way.
    Paul, what bandsaw blade do you use to cut aluminum. I can't find anything locally more than 10 tpi. I was thinking i'd need 24 tpi? amazon?

  30. #428
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kehenline View Post
    Paul, what bandsaw blade do you use to cut aluminum. I can't find anything locally more than 10 tpi. I was thinking i'd need 24 tpi? amazon?
    Yes to both. I use 24 tooth, and get them on Amazon. I have an old Craftsman bandsaw, and used to get the blades at Sears. Then they stopped carrying them. Then they all closed. I've had good luck with these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They last quite a while if only used on aluminum. I keep a candle handy and run it past the blade regularly. Cuts smoother and helps keeps the teeth from clogging up.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-06-2018 at 06:31 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  31. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Yes to both. I use 24 tooth, and get them on Amazon. I have an old Craftsman bandsaw, and used to get the blades at Sears. Then they stopped carrying them. Then they all closed. I've had good luck with these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They last quite a while if only used on aluminum. I keep a candle handy and run it past the blade regularly. Cuts smoother and helps keeps the teeth from clogging up.
    thanks. I hate to use my woodworking bandsaw to cut aluminum, but I guess it is one of the sacrifices of transitioning from furniture building to car building. this should be fun!

  32. #430
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    More Wiring Plus

    It’s been a while since I’ve posted an update. Have been doing other life stuff, but still quite a bit of time on the build. Just hasn’t been much to post about. Here’s an accumulation of things.

    First an update on a previous subject. I spent some hours trying to modify the Moroso oil pan pickup tube to work with the Gen 3 Coyote oil pump. In the end only one word. Fail. I won’t go into tons of detail except to say the Moroso pickup is now in multiple pieces. As it turns out, the angle coming out of the pump doesn’t work with the curve on the Moroso pieces, and in the end I'm not satisfied with how it would mate up with the oil pump receptacle. Needless to say, not a place to have any issues. After looking a lot more closely and thinking about it some more, decided to order this Modular Motorsports GT350/2018 Coyote pickup tube. Thanks to another forum member for pointing out to me. http://www.modularmotorsportsracing....oducts_id=1020. I’m nearly certain it will still require a little modification because it’s intended for a deeper pan than the Moroso pan we use. But everything else about it looks like it will work. And most especially since it’s specifically made for this style oil pump. As I mentioned before, I already purchased the older style oil pan gasket/windage tray, which they picture as going with this pickup. One other small detail is the Gen 3 Coyote doesn’t have the stud and spacer on one of the bearing caps used to anchor the pickup end of the tube. So ordered those pieces. The pickup tube took a while to ship, but now it’s in transit and will be here Tuesday. I’m anxious, to say the least, to see if it’s going to work. Haven’t ordered from this company before. They have a lot of interesting products (and apparently the only game in town for this particular part) but I own it. Their return policy: “ABSOLUTELY NO RETURNS OR CANCELLATIONS ON ANY ITEMS REGARDLESS IF THE ITEM HAS SHIPPED OR NOT – DO NOT EVEN ASK – IF YOU ORDERED IT, YOU OWN IT!” Yep, in all caps. There’s another sentence or two, but that’s the gist of it. Interesting. I really hope this part works since I can't return it. But mostly I hope it works because I'm out of ideas.

    Most of my time since the last update has been diving deep into the wiring. I’ve reconfigured a couple of the harnesses, and will probably end up doing the same for most of them. I’m really focused on conserving as much space as possible behind the dash because of space needed for other stuff including mostly HVAC ducting. That combined with my OCD tendencies trying to keep things neat and orderly especially with the totally exposed front, and there you go.

    First up was the main Coyote harness. The one that includes the Power Distribution Box (PDB) and connections to power, ground, cooling fan, starter, behind the dash, etc. It’s the biggest and most complicated harness. I removed the supercharger leg and a couple other unneeded wires and moved the cooling fan and starter wires back to the PDB area. Then rearranged and shortened the wires that go through the firewall into the dash area. I separated the MIL from the ODB2 and will be routing the MIL to the dash where it should be. I mentioned before that Ford now only has three wires on the pigtail lead. Fuel pump, ignition sense, start sense. I’m probably going to connect those directly to the required RF wires and not even use the connector. More space savings. By taking the wires listed out of the main harness between the PCM connection and the PDB, I was able to replace the convolute with a smaller size which will make it slightly less obvious. Once everything was done, re-wrapped everything with harness tape the way Ford had it. This isn’t much of a picture, but shows what’s left that has to go behind the firewall. Those that have done Coyote’s will maybe appreciate. Greatly simplified.



    Next up was the front harness. Again I decided to take the harness apart and change the configuration so it would route better. Plus I added a wire for the fog lights. One thing I noticed on this newer version of the RF harness is they have really upgraded the ground wires. That was always a weak point in the previous versions, and many of us added grounds at the four corners. I’ll probably still add a ground at the front and back, just because everything still ends up going through that one ground wire in the footbox area. But in general it’s much improved. Here’s how my front harness now routes. I don’t have the padded clamps installed yet, but you can get the idea. I used a smaller grommet at the footbox which uses a much smaller hole. It’s pretty easy to take the pins out of the connectors, pass just the wires through, and then re-pin. I also added harness wrap like Ford uses on their harnesses. Added protection, looks better, and easier to keep clean. Out of the footbox and along the lower part of the chassis tube. Then split the left and right and took the right hand wires behind the radiator tunnel piece.



    Left hand side with wires broken out for the cooling fan and the horns.



    Right hand side same as left.



    This is where I’m at on the firewall. Have the PDB mounted and wires through the firewall. Also made up the short SS flex lines for the fuel lines to the regulator.



    Finally, starting to lay out the main power wires. I don’t have my battery tray back from powder coat yet, so just getting started here. Will do a very similar power connection as the last two Roadster builds. #2 cables to a master disconnect with the handle in the cockpit, then wires from there. Lots more to work on here.



    When the engine compartment is done, will tackle this mess. Lots of dieting will be going on here too. It will be interesting (hopefully) to compare this “before” picture to the “after” one when completed.

    Last edited by edwardb; 10-13-2018 at 05:26 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  33. #431
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    More Wiring Plus (continued)

    Another detail with the Coyote installation is the bottom clutch switch. Factory Five provides bracketry for the switch with their Coyote installation kit. But intended for their cable clutch setup. Doesn’t work exactly for a hydraulic clutch like I’m doing. After looking at several options, ended up using the supplied FF bracket for the switch itself. It snaps in nicely and is adjustable. The challenge then is to push the switch when the clutch is pushed down. Thought about modifying the other piece they provided like some have done. But instead made a piece from 3/4-inch wide by 1/8-inch thick steel that bolts between the clevis and nut on the MC, and then wraps around to push the clutch switch. Seems to work just fine.



    Finally, spent a couple hours today wrapping up the clean-up and prep of the main body section. Need to get this done while it’s still a little warm out. (Frost warning tonight…) Everything is now straight, square, even, smooth, etc. I have a couple repairs that need to be made in the corners of the scoops behind the doors. Visible in the pic if you look closely. But no big deal. I’m also planning to spray some Lizard Skin ceramic insulation on the inside of the roof area. Hoping that will help control the temp inside a little. In general, I’m happy with the body so far. We’ll see how it fits. Most seem to be working out OK. I’ll be doing the same on the nose piece in the next couple days hopefully.



    On a completely separate note, a good buddy in our local club took delivery this year on a brand new Superformance Roadster with a Gen 2 Coyote installed. It had the stock tune and he noticed some of the same issues I had with mine on the stock tune. So he asked me to work with Lund Racing like I did for a custom tune. Brought it to my house, parked it in my garage, and said to call when it was done. Cool!



    The Superformance has no hood scoop, stripes, roll bars, or side pipes. Has undercar exhaust with cats. No surprise, it’s very quiet. Lund Racing did their usual great work and the new tune is installed with multiple log and update cycles, and the car returned to its owner. Running absolutely great. A pretty major transformation. It was interesting looking this car over and driving it. Hadn’t been up this close to a Superformance before.

    Now finally, all good build projects involve new tools, right? I’ve been pretty disappointed that the Coupe build hasn’t yielded many new tools. I guess the ones from previous builds were still OK to use. But having said that, I use calipers all the time. Have several of the H-F variety digital ones and one average quality analog one. But one thing I get frustrated about was how frequently I need to change batteries. Which aren’t cheap and they go dead of course at the worst time. Plus not really sold on how accurate those cheapo ones are. So did some Amazon browsing looking for a better quality one, and found this Mitutoyo 500-474 digital caliper that’s solar-powered. Works in any reasonably lit workspace. Who knew? I have it and have used it for several days. Not cheap, but hopefully will last a long time. I like it a lot. Way more accurate than I need, but that’s OK. And no more batteries.



    That’s it for now. Or should I say that’s more than enough? Back to wiring.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-13-2018 at 05:30 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  34. #432
    TheBabyBadger's Avatar
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    Looking good, brother! Loving the progress! Always SO CLEAN! No lie, I'm gonna rip off some of your engine bay routing, I love it!
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe Build - https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...733#post312733

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  35. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBabyBadger View Post
    Looking good, brother! Loving the progress! Always SO CLEAN! No lie, I'm gonna rip off some of your engine bay routing, I love it!
    Thanks! Much appreciated. Your build is looking good too.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  36. #434
    TheBabyBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    Thanks! Much appreciated. Your build is looking good too.
    Thanks! I work on it and feel like I make so much progress, then I see yours and feel so far behind! Can't wait to be driving it, but keep reminding myself to take my time. It's not a race! Keep at it, looks AMAZING!
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe Build - https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...733#post312733

    Arrival: 6/21/18 1st Go Kart: TBA Registered: TBA Painted: TBA Complete:TBA

  37. #435
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    Are you planning to relocate the front harness under the frame rails? I did and they are mostly out of sight. I added grounds for the lights at each corner, as you said never too many.
    As always great pictures and writeup.
    Are you planning to get "Quiet pipes" ? mine will be here soon. Took it out for a short first drive to get gas and the kids coming home from school were covering their ears as I drove by - slowly I might add.
    David W
    Mkll 4874 built in 2004
    Gen 3 coupe #16 under construction

  38. #436
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Williamson View Post
    Are you planning to relocate the front harness under the frame rails? I did and they are mostly out of sight. I added grounds for the lights at each corner, as you said never too many.
    As always great pictures and writeup.
    Are you planning to get "Quiet pipes" ? mine will be here soon. Took it out for a short first drive to get gas and the kids coming home from school were covering their ears as I drove by - slowly I might add.
    David W
    Thanks. I'm going to put the front harness on the side close to where it's hanging right now. Having it underneath is a good idea, and I considered it. But for how I routed the harness with the crossover behind the radiator tunnel, it turned the corner by the shock mount better being on the side. Besides, I have the even larger Coyote harness on the RH side chassis tube that I can't do anything about based on where I decided to put the PCM. Once the engine is in and all the other hoses and lines are installed, I think it's all going to kind of blend together. Doing my best to keep things neat and orderly. Hidden not so much.

    I will not be using the standard side pipes. That much of the decision is made. I'll share what I'm planning later in the build.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-13-2018 at 03:59 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  39. #437
    Senior Member cnutting's Avatar
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    Nice work as always!
    I'm in that "missing the build" phase. A coupe is tempting...
    FFR #8833 289 FIA 3-link
    1965 289, TKO600 from Forte's Parts Connection
    Body and Paint by Mike's Auto Restoration
    Picked up 3/5/2016, First start 4/22/2017, MA legal 7/11/2018
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...FIA-build-8833
    "Insanity is contagious" - Joseph Heller

  40. #438
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    Gen 3 Coyote Oil Pump Pickup Update

    Today I received the Modular Motorsports Racing 403360 oil pan pickup tube mentioned in my last update. It appears to be a very well made piece and needless to say I was anxious to see how it fit in my new Coyote. Good news and not surprising news. First the good news. Fits the GT350 style oil pump connector perfectly, the oil pan gasket/windage tray perfectly, and hits the opening in the Moroso pan just fine.



    I wasn’t sure how they would address keeping the pump end of the tube in the oil pump since there are no mounting or retaining screws on that end. The fitting on the end of the pickup tube extends about 5/8-inch down into a rubber gasket in the oil pump. So it's pretty substantial. But still. Recall the OE oil pan has the pickup tube integral with the pan. So with the pan bolted on there’s no way for it to come out. The answer appears to be a small step on the side of the pickup tube that’s engaged by the windage tray. Slightly visible in the picture above, but better seen here.





    It’s different, but seems that it would be adequate. With the other end bolted down, I’m not sure it could fall out anyway. It’s negative pressure here vs. positive. So the tube is being naturally drawn in. The windage tray has a web piece directly under where it’s holding, so it’s pretty substantial. I guess I’m OK with it.

    Now for the no surprise news. The pickup end is much too long. Exactly 1-9/16 inches too long by my measurements to the inside of the Moroso pan. Not including the .250” to .500” clearance recommended by Moroso. So I have two choices for rework. (1) Shorten the MMR piece by cutting off and re-welding to the shorter length. But this also means I would have to modify the retaining bracket to the bearing cap. Plus taking that much off the length would get into where the pipe bends. (2) Use the good end from each pickup tube I've purchased so far – the oil pump end from the MMR pickup, and the oil pan end from the Moroso pickup. This looks really promising. I already have the Moroso piece cut into pieces, so no loss there. Checking as carefully as I can at this point, the angles, location, and height all look like they would work. This is the idea.



    I’m still waiting for the cap bolt stud and spacer from Tasca Parts. So won’t make a final decision until they’re received and I can check everything out a little more precisely. But this looks promising. If anyone has any better ideas, let me know! (That doesn't include changing the oil pump as Ford suggested.) In the meantime, hopefully for those in the future with the Gen 3 Coyote (and aren't so impatient) there will be a plug and play pickup tube available and won’t have to go through this.

    Last for today, I picked up the pieces from powder coat that I fabbed previously. Mounting for the PCM, expansion tank, and battery. More of the puzzle pieces needed to finalize wiring and get the chassis ready for the engine installation.



    This coming weekend we’re off for family visits in Idaho and Oregon. So about a 3-week break on the build. Sadly, driving season could very well be over by the time we get back. More time to build I guess.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-16-2018 at 01:32 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  41. #439
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    More Gen 3 Coyote Installation

    This will be my last update for a few weeks as we’re off for family visits out west. Couple small bits of progress to report. Yet another bit of a setback on the Gen 3 Coyote oil pickup tube saga. I mentioned before that since the Gen 3 Coyote has the integrated pickup in the oil pan, it doesn’t have the stud on one of the main bearing cap bolts that’s used to anchor the pickup end of the tube. It’s cap bearing bolt #15 in Ford manuals BTW. Seems simple enough. Order the cap bolt with stud from a previous Coyote version and swap out the plain bolt installed in the Gen 3. There’s a threaded spacer that goes on the stud, and a bolt to hold the pickup. Like this:



    After looking at multiple exploded drawings and parts listing, couldn’t exactly the determine the part number for the cap bolt with stud. It was one of two. I had an order to Tasca Parts for my radiator hoses and miscellaneous so added both part numbers to the order. The order was delayed for one piece that was on back order. Called them and found one of my two bolts with the stud was backordered, not in stock anywhere, and no ETA from Ford. So took a chance and had them delete the part and ship the order hoping the one they did have was the one I needed. Received the parts yesterday, and you guessed it, the part I received is the wrong one. The inner bolts (the one needed with the stud) are a larger diameter than the outer bolts on the caps. The one I received (pictured above) is the smaller diameter used for the outer bolt. Can’t use it there because the oil pickup tube doesn't align there plus that’s not where the hole is in the windage tray. So I visited my local Ford dealer and spoke with the parts manager. He agreed the part I didn’t receive was the one I needed. Of course they didn’t have one either. Looked through all their distribution channels and told me the same thing. None in stock anywhere and no ETA. Good grief! I’m going to let this simmer for the next few weeks. Right now I’m thinking it would be pretty straightforward to have the threaded spacer welded to the top of the existing plain bolt out of the engine. Done properly, that should be fine. Any other ideas? This is another issue that anyone using a Gen 3 Coyote will have to figure out. Hopefully the right parts will be available at some point.

    On a more successful note, since I’m working on wiring and routing of everything, decided I wanted to get the DBW pedal assembly mounted so that wire could be routed as needed. I mentioned before that the Gen 3 Coupe has a nice mounting plate with holes already drilled for the Coyote DBW assembly. But unfortunately, too high and aligns the plug receptacle directly underneath the steering column. That just isn’t going to work. On the Roadster, the DBW assembly ends up further to the right and clears the column pretty easily. But the Coupe steering column is apparently in a different location, plus the footbox sidewall is much closer up there (more room for the engine, that’s good) so the DBW has to be either really low or moved to the left. Not wanting the pedal too low or the pedal arm cut too short, I chose to orient it so the plug was accessible on the LH side of the steering column. I used the DBW mounting plate included with the Coyote installation kit and modified it to sandwich on top of the installed mounting plate and orient the pedal where it needed to be. I put some 1/4-inch nutserts in the mounting plate so I didn’t have to fish washers and nuts behind there to take the DBW in and out. (Love working down deep in footboxes…) Also made a little bracket assembly, which I won’t try to explain, to anchor the other side of the DBW module to make it a little more solid. On the Roadster, the RH side of the module ends up tight against a frame rail. Not so on the Coupe. I used some ideas posted by another forum member (thanks shark92651!) for the pedal modification and used the stock pedal rather than grafting the pedal from the FF assembly like in the instructions and what I did on #8674. Happy with how it turned out. These pics show the final pedal arrangement. Not exactly the best angle on the pic. The pedal is almost exactly centered between the brake pedal and the side wall. Looks closer to the brake pedal in this pic than it really is. Also a better view of where the harness plug ended up.





    That’s it for now. When we get back, first priority will be to get the engine bay wiring done (I’m about 50% complete), hopefully the issues with the oil pan pickup resolved, and finally get the engine assembly completed and installed into the chassis.
    Last edited by edwardb; 10-19-2018 at 07:41 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 crate Coyote. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  42. #440
    Senior Member shark92651's Avatar
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    It's looking good, Paul. I'm happy to see that one of my ideas was useful to you - I have certainly used many, many of yours!

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