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Thread: potential 33' build questions

  1. #1
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    potential 33' build questions

    Hows it going gentlemen,

    I posted in the introduction forum but I thought I would ask a few questions here. I have been considering either a 33' or Type65 build this summer.

    The potential build would be a 33' hard top with: Head/Cam LS3,T-56,3 Link
    Looking to get 500whp and have a fun/safe street car that I can take to a track a few times a year and really learn how to drive with it.(mostly auto cross and some drag racing). My main thing is I wanted to do a rollcage for safety (i'm sure some autocrossing probably requires a cage as well??). Does anyone here have a cage installed with any experience, and how hard is it to get installed...IE visibility and entry/exit into the car.

    Also considering doing steel body, just curious to people's opinion on the steel body. thanks in advance for any advice.



    Greg

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVTSupremacy View Post
    Hows it going gentlemen,
    Looking to get 500whp and have a fun/safe street car that I can take to a track a few times a year and really learn how to drive with it.(mostly auto cross and some drag racing). My main thing is I wanted to do a rollcage for safety (i'm sure some autocrossing probably requires a cage as well??). Does anyone here have a cage installed with any experience, and how hard is it to get installed...IE visibility and entry/exit into the car.
    Also considering doing steel body, just curious to people's opinion on the steel body. thanks in advance for any advice.
    Greg
    Greg
    Look at the builds for MattP and Naz
    Matt built a cage for road course and drag IIRC and Naz built one to certify to 7.5 sec. for NHRA events.
    Matt caged his 33 but I don't recall him changing as much of the FF chassis as Naz did.
    Naz found that the FF chassis tubes were too thin to be certified so he cut up the 33 and built all new tubing for the part that
    had to have thicker tubing then welded a cage to that. I also caged mine but not to any standards that would pass tech, mine
    was just for my own peace of mind. I grew up at dirt tracks and know that s*** happens so I wanted a bit of insurance so to speak.

    There are a few others as well but as you mentioned, getting in and out gets harder the more robust cage that you build. The chop top
    makes the back downbars a challenge and the dash makes the front hoop complicated as well. Look around on the forums and you will
    find pictures and build threads that will help you decide.

    The steel body is still a work in progress so if you go that route you may be waiting awhile for the fenders and running boards etc.
    You should look at the new 35 truck that FF has just released, it may be easier to cage because of the body shape and I think there
    is one already being planned/built that is going to be wicked fast.
    Dale
    7 liter Hemi 33

  3. #3
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    I'm almost ready for paint on my 33HR project. You can surf the album gallery for photos of what it takes to put a NHRA legal 8.5-sec roll cage in one of these little cars. I have an album titled FFR 33 Hot Rod Roll Cage. It may help you decide if a 33 is right or if the new Gen-3 is a better choice. The more I look at the new Gen-3 the more I like that thing but I’m building a drag racer and the Type-65 is not compatible with drag racing.

    First off let's discuss your desire to drag race and perhaps run some autocross events. When I started my project that’s what I had in mind. I started by reading the rules (NHRA & SCCA SOLO) but also contacted the tech departments of these two sanctioning bodies to discuss my project. SCCA is the easy one. When I contacted them I was informed that the SCCA SOLO regs do not require a roll bar for a hardtop (this was 2016) but being familiar with the FFR 33HR it was “suggested” that I add one with proper bracing as described in the SCCA rules. The most difficult part of that requirement is getting the 30-deg rear bracing to fit under the top. It can be done but it’s not easy.

    As for drag racing -- that's a much more difficult thing to prepare for. Expect to be required to run an NHRA legal roll bar. The power level you're planning should get you into the tens and that requires a host of safety items that the FFR 33HR is not set up for. To make it worse, the 1.5”x1.5”x.120” wall square tube that makes up the chassis is not adequate to attach a roll bar to and will not comply with NHRA rules if you do. Yes I’ve read about folks that have run their cars at the strip with various roll bars welded to the FFR chassis but that tells me that the tracks they run at are either not an NHRA affiliated track or simply not enforcing the NHRA rules as they are required to do. Start your research on NHRA requirements with a web search for NHRA Section-20. Or better yet, purchase a rulebook.

    And even as well as the cage on the Type-65 Coupe is constructed; if it is built with 1.5" tubing it will not comply with NHRA rules for a roll bar or a roll cage. That’s why I stated above it is not compatible with drag racing. But it should be a real force to be reckoned with on an autocross course. And I may just have to build one.

    As for the choice between steel and glass for the body it just depends on your preference and maybe to some extent, what you want to do with the car. The glass body is disappointingly not symmetrical. I’ve found it off by more than half-inch from side to side. That shouldn’t be a big issue from simple aesthetics POV as you can only look at one side at a time. However, it was extremely frustrating when building a roll cage to fit under this tight little body as even a ¼” variance side to side is enough to cause you fits. And the body seems to change shape a bit as it cures? My door bars had ~3/16” clearance from the inner door panels when I built the cage. About a year later and the clearance is gone and I had to trim out the inner door panels. That would not have happened on a steel body car. Then there’s the warped trunk lid and a list of other issues with the glass body. If you want a show car you will probably like a steel body better. If you want light-weight go with glass.

  4. #4

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    RoadRacer's Avatar
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    Hey Greg, this is an interesting thread because I've often thought that these two types of motorsport - autocross/road racing and drag racing to be largely incompatible. I've never drag raced myself but have friends who are heavily into it, and their cars are setup very differently for weight transfer and of course don't need to turn corners. So very loose front suspension, radically different massive sidewall wheel & tires. Then roadrace; we're usually low and super stiff, little sidewall, lots of focus on IFS/IRS and vertical wheel movement.

    Since we have 'the engineers' here and you expressed this idea I don't think this is too much of a hijack to ask if you can do both? Perhaps the answer is yes, at a weekend warrior level, but not "seriously"? All the 9.90 cars I've seen (and I even owned one once) were pretty compromised driving around town and would never even try autocross.
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  5. #5
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    RR, the cars are set-up way different and seldom do you see one that is competitive in both drag racing and autocross (and forget about drag racing with a road racer). However, that's exactly what I'm trying to do is build a car with enough modularity and adjustment that it can be set-up for drag racing and for autocross at the "hobby" level without having to completely rebuild the chassis. My car is being built with an emphasis on handling around corners and a rear suspension that can dial in lots of traction.

    What I think will make this possible is that the drag race class I'm targeting is Super Pro which is a handicap start so consistency is more important than max power. This is a class filled with hot street cars so they are already dual-purpose vehicles. Most of the suspension performance settings for drag racing are to the rear with straight line traction being the main focus. A car needs to launch hard and straight. I've designed the rear suspension to be convertible between a parallel four-link and offset three-link and the axle is located with a watts link. There is more adjustment in the rear than I should need and tons more than FFR provides on any of their cars.

    So, we'll see if I can pull this off. At minimum I should end up with a fast, safe, and great handling street car.

  6. #6
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    OMG! This could be a great thread. For 30 years I've said street/strip is as much a lie as Pro street while being a participant in both. So I have also said multiple times on these forums that the "R" designator isn't compatible with many sanctioning bodies.

    I am also leaving my diff set up for swapping from the Mustang 4 link to the 3 link, but no parallel 4 link. The reality however is I absolutely do not expect to compete in Drag racing. I will inevitably "participate" in the local 1/8 mile (IHRA) with the 33, but I have a 68 barracuda to satisfy the competitive side. Autocross however, is very compatible with the hot rod (not the 68). I was pleasantly surprised how well the car handled with street tires and no chassis tuning the first time out.
    I will be hammering the car this spring when the snow fades away.
    So IMHO the steel body is just a waste of money if you want to race. Why bother, it has no advantage. If you want to be faster than 10 sec in the Quarter find a chassis builder or a different chassis. If you want to autocross with something most people don't see at an autocross go with the 33HR and IRS.
    Look closely at the type 65 if you may go beyond auto cross and road race. The truck is just another brick aerodynamically. I'll build a Willy's long before I consider the 35.
    So there, Why not a simple LSX and close ratio tko?

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the inputs guys! I guess I need to brush up on the Type65 roll cage and roll cages in general to see what type of racing requires what. I only planned on doing the drag strip occaisionally (1-2 times a year for fun), and doing more autocross/road track (3-4 times a year if that)...in the end it will most likely end up being a street car 99.9% of the time.
    My main concern was the fact the 33' has no real roof/structure to keep it safe in a roll over or something like that. maybe im just being paranoid about it.

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