Pro M Racing fuel pump hanger installation

[dncharo]

I'm trying to install the Pro M Racing in tank fuel pump hanger that Paul (edwardb) and others have used. My question is regarding the electrical connections. I'm also using the Walbro 255lph pump. The red "female disconnect" from the hanger fits onto the pump directly, but the black one is too small. It seems like most have solved this problem by cutting off the female disconnects on the hanger and splicing them onto a connector clip which then plugs into the pump. (pic 1 below) That connector clip has wires which are smaller, so a reducing butt connector is needed.

My question is, can I just cut off the female disconnect from the hanger that is too small and attach a larger one that fits onto the pump directly? This method would not use the connector clip at all. Any issues with this way? Is the former preferable? I'm hesitant to go out on my own here with electrical connections immersed in fuel. Seems like an explosion waiting to happen... Here are some pics to help explain things. Many thanks!

[edwardb]

I would highly recommend using the connector intended for the pump on the pump. It's designed for that purpose. Don't know what locking and/or sealing properties it may have, but Walbro designed that connection to use that connector. I'd stick with it. I cut the ends off the Pro-M leads and used a step-down butt connector on mine. Maybe you saw that in my build thread. Will be doing so again on the new Coupe build. Another option would be to put mating connectors on the end of the pump pigtail. Personally though I prefer the more permanent crimped butt connectors. I'll be very interested to see what experience and recommendations others will make. This is obviously only my opinion without much experience to back it up.

Agree it seems crazy, but don't worry about explosion if assembled properly. When submerged in gas a spark won't ignite anything. Vapors of course can ignite at the right concentration but that's apparently not an issue with a properly designed and used tank. In tank pumps with electrical connections are standard for nearly all vehicles and considered safe.

[rich grsc]

It looks like the the hanger wires are attached with a nut ? If so remove them and install an eye ring on the pump connector. There has to be oxygen in the correct concentration for the fuel vapors to burn, not near enough in an enclosed fuel tank.

[edwardb]

It looks like the the hanger wires are attached with a nut ? If so remove them and install an eye ring on the pump connector.

Just looked at mine (same exact Pro-M hanger) and the connections are held by swaged rivets through from the terminals on the top. Can't tell exactly from the OP's picture, but appears to be the same. Unfortunately, don't think that's an option. Good idea though.

Just heard from another builder using the same Pro-M hanger and a Walbro 255 pump. Pro-M told him the leads from the hanger will mount directly into the pump and that no connectors are needed. Interesting since that was the original question and certainly different than I was thinking and recommended. Would take a pretty good bend on those large gauge stiff wires Pro-M is using. Then there's the matter of the terminals themselves. My hanger has a .250" push-on connector on the positive lead, and the smaller .187" on the negative lead. I don't have a pump in front of me, but that's apparently the mis-match from the original question. If so, I guess I'm not convinced it would just as easy to use butt connectors and the pigtail versus changing the push-on terminal on the existing lead. But I don't know...

[i.e.427]

Here's how we do it, and we've done a number of these. Cut off the connector on the lead that doesn't fit (I believe it's the negative), Use the yellow connector you are showing and correctly crimp it on to the wire. Next, grab some adhesive line shrink tubing and place it over the connector you just connected (you could even remove the yellow insulation before shrink tubing if you like). I don't see the need to use the connector that comes with the pump, the wire gauge on it is small and you'd have two new splices instead of just one.

Just a note; the fun part comes when you try to wiggle the assembly into the tank.

[dncharo]

Thanks everyone for your comments! Yes, it is the black connector that is too small and doesn't fit onto the pump. The red one is .250" and fits fine. The yellow connector I bought is .250" and fits perfectly. The wires are certainly very robust, but I'm able to bend them in such a way for it all to fit nicely. I think I'll go this route and hope it works. Fewer connections overall and I won't have to use the smaller gauge wire that comes on the connector. I bought a crimper and will get the shrink tubing as well.
And thanks for all the reassurance about these electrical connections in the gas tank!

[stevant]

Check this out, Delcity part#: 964409

I know I was told that the hanger connectors will work directly with the Walbro pump but maybe I was told the wrong info. This connectors is a female .250 Push on terminal that is suitable for use in gasoline. Heat it up and it should be good to go. Do they make a shrink wrap that works in gasoline for the long term?

[edwardb]

Do they make a shrink wrap that works in gasoline for the long term?

Raychem DR-25 is what I'm planning to get. Available lots of places and in various sizes. This sleeving at McMaster doesn't specifically say Raychem, but has a similar description: https://www.mcmaster.com/#2595k3/=1b8sqpu.

[stevant]

Raychem DR-25 is what I'm planning to get. Available lots of places and in various sizes. This sleeving at McMaster doesn't specifically say Raychem, but has a similar description: https://www.mcmaster.com/#2595k3/=1b8sqpu.

I had seen a similar product at Delcity. It mentioned the same liquids as this product except Gasoline specifically. This McMaster also does not mention Gasoline. I called their Tech who is going to check into that tomorrow. It mentions Diesel Fuel but no Gasoline. I'm awaiting his call to see what they say. I'm curious what he finds out from the manufacturer. I'm going to look into the Raychem DR-25 as then all we would need is a female .250 push connector and slip that over and shrink it! It would match the other connector also. Not that anyone would know it does not match, but OCD kicks in for me......lol. I guess I will wait until my setup comes in to see if my wires are as plug n play as Pro-M said they'd be. I'll keep all posted.

Thanks for the info as always.

PS - I just ordered a few pieces of Raychem DR-25 to have in stock as I know it will come to use for other applications.

[mike forte]

Hi Guys,
I sell the pigtail that plugs right into the pump that features a safety clip so the wires never disconnect.

[stevant]

I'm going to try these:

https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma!...12028.h_812029

I'll keep you posted.......might be overkill but I might also shrink wrap over the entire butt connector with the Raychem wrap suggested by Paul. I would rather use the connector that comes with the Walbro as its secure once clipped in. I know Pro-M told me the hanger wires would clip into the Walbro via push connect but does not seem as secure as using the Walbro Pigtail with butt connects.

[stevant]

I just received my hanger and pump. Here are a few pics of it after assembly. I'll be getting my connectors and shrink wrap tomorrow. Once I connect the wires, I upload another pic showing the wire connection completed.

IMG_2433.JPG
IMG_2434.JPG
IMG_2435.JPG
IMG_2436.JPG

[Logan]

@stevant - Did you order the Pro-M fuel pump hanger and Walbro GSS340 (guessing the pump based on your images) directly from Pro-M Racing together like that? Seems you can only buy the Pro-M hanger directly from them.

[karlos]

Another option: the wires that are attached to the Pro-M hanger are soldered onto the terminals. You can remove the insulation, de-solder the existing wires, and replace them with the wires coming directly from the Walbro fuel pump connector. Reinsulate with a couple pieces of the RayChem mentioned previously and you're good to go.

Edit: if you decide to do this, be careful to limit how much heat you put into the terminal. You don’t want to melt the nylon on the pump hanger that insulates the terminals. I didn’t find it to be necessary but wouldn’t be a bad idea to use a heat sink just above the solder joint.

[Boydster]

And dont forget to mark which tube is which before you install. They are the same size and getting them swapped would def put a damper on your day...

[Logan]

Certainly wouldn’t make a fun event!

Got ahold of Pro-M (via email, phones were busy). They don’t sell Walbro pumps, but have an alternative called Red Horse. Never heard of that brand before, but I’ll do some digging. Two pump sizes, a 265 Lph and a 340 Lph. No pressure specs or charts or any other data for that matter. I’m still leaning Walbro, and will probably end up sourcing components from multiple vendors for this one.. Rolling the dice on a part manufacturer is one thing, but when it’s the fuel system it’s another thing entirely.

[rich grsc]

Why does everyone think they have to have such over sized pumps? A 250Lph pump will handle 700hp, or more. The HP is at full power, who can drive their car around at full power? Even under short bursts of full throttle, the pump is over kill. All such a large pump does, is pump unneeded fuel through the lines and regulator, heating the fuel and aerating it. My fuel system was shipped with a 255 Lph pump, wish it wasn't, I had to spend more money on lines and tank hanger just to get rid of the aeration problems in the fuel tank. If I would have had a 150-190 Lph pump, I would have saved over $200 on unneeded parts, and still had all the fuel my engine needed.

[edwardb]

Why does everyone think they have to have such over sized pumps? A 250Lph pump will handle 700hp, or more. The HP is at full power, who can drive their car around at full power? Even under short bursts of full throttle, the pump is over kill. All such a large pump does, is pump unneeded fuel through the lines and regulator, heating the fuel and aerating it. My fuel system was shipped with a 255 Lph pump, wish it wasn't, I had to spend more money on lines and tank hanger just to get rid of the aeration problems in the fuel tank. If I would have had a 150-190 Lph pump, I would have saved over $200 on unneeded parts, and still had all the fuel my engine needed.

Rich -- Your basic premise it probably true. We rarely if ever are driving at full power or taxing the limits of our fuel pumps. So in some cases agree we might be over-sizing them. But maybe a little deeper dive. We're talking about a Coyote here, where the discussion seems to be between 190L/hr and 255L/hr. The most common sizes, specifically with the Walbro in-tank pumps. But those ratings are in the 40 PSI range. At 55 PSI (for a Gen 2) and 65 PSI (for a Gen 3) the volume goes down. Voltage comes into play too. 12 volts nominal versus the typical 13.5+ if the charging circuit is working properly.

Specifically Ford recommends: Gen 2: 155L/Hr minimum at 55psi. Gen 3: 165L/Hr minimum at 65psi. Based on this, a 190L/Hr pump is probably the right size for a Gen 2, as long as no power adders are planned. Mark does a good job of explaining the numbers here: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/sho...th-3-8-outlet/. For a Gen 3, I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 255L/Hr. Mark again does a good job or explaining: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/sho...th-3-8-outlet/. FWIW, Walbro themselves rates the 190L/Hr pump for 350 HP, and the 255L/Hr for 500 HP. Probably on the conservative side though.

For Coyote builds, I'm a supporter of the Pro-M hangar with true (not drilled out...) 3/8-inch supply and return and an extended return tube to reduce/eliminate aeration. Combined with 3/8 inch lines the drag and potential overheat of the fuel is minimized. Agree not the cheapest way to go. But done right likely to never need upgrading. Even if power adders down the road. Finally, FWIW, just researched this the other day for another thread. A Walbro 255L/HR pump at 65 PSI (i.e. for a Gen 3 Coyote) draws 10 amps. Not terrible. The standard Halogen headlights are more than that.