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Thread: Thoughts on fire suppression system?

  1. #1
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Thoughts on fire suppression system?

    There are a couple threads in the Roadster and 818 sections, has anyone installed one on the GTM? I'll be tracking some so it's a safety issue, but more on my mind is not losing the car to a fire.
    Does anyone have thoughts on whether it is a waste of money?
    Looks like modern units are FE-36 rather than Halon. But per https://www.ioportracing.com/faq/fire.htm a disadvantage is that it does not quench the fire. So is it only designed to get you out of the car, not to save the car?
    What about foaming water-based systems? Looks like you cannot let these systems freeze, makes sense. I could see using this on the engine bay, but wouldn't want it in the cockpit...sounds like a mess. But if it saves the car....
    Last edited by beeman; 01-25-2018 at 08:53 AM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
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  2. #2
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    I would highly recommend an automatic system for the engine compartment. Yes they are really designed just to give you time to get out. It obviously depends upon the source of the fire, but if it is an oil or fuel fire it can take a lot of chemical to put that out. On the other hand, a minor electrical fire can be stopped pretty quickly and kept from turning into a burn to the ground situation, many times, with just a small amount of chemicals. I've even stopped an electrical fire with a couple liter bottles of drinking water.

    My recommendation, if you are willing to spend the money, is to look at a Halon system that is automatic for the engine compartment, and then also carry a small manual extinguisher in the driver compartment. Halon was said to be outlawed, but it is still available at a much higher price the last time I checked. Kind of like R-12 refrigerant.
    Last edited by crash; 01-25-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Beeman, let us know what you end up with and your review of the system. I've been considering an FE36 system from Stroud Safety, They claim that anything above 5% concentration will extinguisher the fire and recommend a system with 1lb for every 50 cubic feet of enclosed space to protect. For my application a 5lb system should cover my cockpit and fuel cell area.

    Everything I've read about FE36 from various sources claim it's effective at extinguishing a fire in a closed cockpit. However, if you need to protect an open engine compartment AFFF seems to be the way to go. There is much debate over which is best, AFFF or FE36 as there are pros and cons for both. For me, I really can't see pulling the handle on a foam system knowing what a mess I'll be left with. If it's anything like the fire retardant they dropped on my house during the last big wildfire you'll never get it all cleaned up.

  4. #4
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAZ View Post
    Beeman, let us know what you end up with and your review of the system.
    Sure thing! But i hope the review is limited to the installation!

    What about a hybrid system? Foam in engine bay/fuel tank area, FE36 for cockpit?
    Here's a Aqueos Film Forming Foam (AFFF) system for $394
    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=2426
    Here's a 5 lb FE36 system for $419.
    https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=7024

    I figured the foaming system could just be pressure washed from the engine bay if it deploys? Or is there more to cleanup than that?
    Here's a blurb on Pegasus site:
    Aqueos Film Forming Foam (AFFF) has emerged as one of the best "green" replacements for ozone-depleting Halon as a fire suppression agent. AFFF is preferred by the FIA. It is non-conductive, non-corrosive, alcohol-resistant, and ozone-friendly. It cleans up easily by rinsing with water. AFFF fire systems must be inspected and re-certified every 2 years. We are factory-authorized to recertify SPA fire systems.
    Crash- I think you are right that the halon is still available, and works better than the FE36, but price is up there probably due to environmental restrictions?

    I'll post this here as well for reference:

    What should I do if my car catches on fire while I am racing?
    Your first consideration is to get your car stopped quickly and safely. As you are looking for a good place to pull over, shut off your engine and battery master switch. This will keep the fuel pump and electrical system from adding to the excitement. Using your best judgment as to how fast you need to get out of the car, try to find track personnel such as a flag person to park close to. (Flaggers will not come to your aid, but they do have fire extinguishers that you can use. Also, if they see you are on fire, they will call the safety crew to help you.) Park the car in an area that is safe from other cars on the track and away from other items that may catch on fire such as gasoline storage or dry grass. After the car is stopped, hold your breath, release the fire extinguisher system and then get out and away from the car. Remember the track is still "hot" and it would be really sad to get out of a burning car just to get hit by another racer passing by. Keep your head by practicing an emergency bail out.

    If the fire is out of control, all of the above may "go out the window". Just remember three main things: Stop the car, hold your breath and get out!

    Why should you hold your breath? Well, two reasons. One, smoke and fumes can be very hot and/or caustic and they can burn your lungs. Smoke inhalation can choke you and make you pass out. Two, high concentrations of Halon or FE-36 can be toxic.

    Remember, your helmet and gloves will be very critical in a fire. The shield needs to be down to keep your face from burning and to keep the temperature of the air you breath lower. The gloves will help protect your hands from hot metal and melted roll bar padding. Two-layer SFI-rated or FIA-rated gloves are highly recommended.
    Last edited by beeman; 01-25-2018 at 02:23 PM.
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
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    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

  5. #5
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    Afternoon gentlemen,

    Here is my take. For a system that literally cost under $400 or $500, you can’t go wrong. We spend years building these cars, countless financial resources, and in the end we have a Supercar that is worth protecting, let alone possibly your life. If you can make it fit, I would go for it.

    I look at it like this as well. I’m an avid offshore fisherman off the east coast of Florida and am regularly out of cell and VHF range. Not to mention my trips to the Bahamas. Before I even considered going outside cell range, I upgraded my VHF, then outside VHF range I carry 2 EPIRBs. One stays mounted on the boat, and one stays on me. My first aid kit is the size of a large laptop case, and I carry countless flares, 12 ga flares, smoke signals, ... the list goes on and all this gear expires every few years. All told I’ve spent thousands just to keep me and my passengers safe. It only makes sense to do the same for our GTMs.

  6. #6
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    I came across an interesting option for AFFF. Up to this point, systems require inspecting and recharging every 2 years. This requires shipping the bottle to a service center and paying a big fee unless you are lucky enough to have a local race shop, then you just pay the big fee but save the hassle and time of shipping. Here's a system that you can fill yourself, and refill or service yourself for about $50. And it's cheaper than the other options for the system. It sits unpressurized until it is activated, then a CO2 cylinder pressurizes the foam through the system on demand. I'm leaning towards this system for the engine bay, plus a handheld extinguisher for the cabin which would do fine for an electrical/non-fuel fire.
    Thoughts?
    Installation PDF is on the product page:

    http://www.smileysracing.com/shoppin...px?i=19524&c=0
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member jamesfr58's Avatar
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    Beeman,

    I was looking for fire suppression and ran across this one that was originally designed for RV but I think this could work in the get as they also do race cars and hot rods. Anyway just a thought and different idea that may work.

    https://proteng.com/products/ this is the web site for fire suppression.

  8. #8
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Couple months after I wrote post #3 above, I purchased a Stroud Safety 5lb FE36 clean agent fire suppression system. The 5lb system is more than enough to adequately cover the driver's compartment and the trunk space where my fuel cell is located. The Stroud Safety system is a quality "kit" that you can install in a few hours. It is accepted by several sanctioning bodies including the NHRA which my car has to comply with. I have the bottle mounted on my drive shaft cover (my cover is .125" thick aluminum so there's plenty of support even in a crash) and it does not interfere with or encroach on the driver.

    Of course I have not used it yet (hope I never have to) but it has been through one race season now with no issues and provides a great deal of comfort knowing it's always ready. The only thing I didn't like about the kit was the coil of tubing supplied with it. This seems to be a common theme with these systems and the coiled tubing cannot be perfectly straightened by hand. Yes, I'm that anal about how my tubing is run. So I substituted steel brake line tubing as I can purchase straight sections from the local auto parts stores. NHRA requires steel tubing or I'd have opted for aluminum.

    The kit I used is part #STS-G9302 from Summit Racing and back then I forked over $491.99 for the system. The bottle comes filled and Stroud will service the system when it needs it. They've been in business a long time and I expect they will be for some time to come. I've always experienced good customer service from this company and that's important.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member beeman's Avatar
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    Thanks, NAZ! I'm leaning towards AFFF, but I'll look at that product too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesfr58 View Post
    Beeman,

    I was looking for fire suppression and ran across this one that was originally designed for RV but I think this could work in the get as they also do race cars and hot rods. Anyway just a thought and different idea that may work.

    https://proteng.com/products/ this is the web site for fire suppression.
    James, that looks good for the cockpit, but I'd be worried about inadvertent deployment in the engine bay, it releases at 190 degrees or so. From the product page:
    The Polyamide tube ruptures when exposed to direct flame, or any temperatures exceeding 158°F, releasing the FM-200® agent
    MK3.1 2004 Mach 1 donor. ABS, PS, TC.
    GTM #304 LPE 525hp LS3
    2000 C5 Lingenfelter LS1@489hp
    1999 Corvette FRC/Z06 track car

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