2017 Coyote Vacuum System

[JIMLAND]

I got the Factory Five Coyote Swap Intake Fittings kit (FTG-FactoryfivePCV) from JLT Performance and it had a PCV fitting and grommet for connecting the DS crankcase ventilation line to the intake and also had 2 CMCV vacuum fittings and grommets along with 2 - 90 degree 3/8" adapters and a 6" 3/8" hose. I understand the need for the PCV fitting but don't see the need for the CMCV fittings/grommets & hose since it looks like the CMCV is already plumbed up to get its vacuum from the vacuum reservoir.

I saw the Ford Performance Vacuum diagram that has been posted before and it is different than what I was seeing on my engine. I talked with Steve at Ford Performance Tech line and he said with the 2017 version they eliminated the vacuum line that went along the DS of the engine from the CMCV electric solenoids to the front of the engine. He said they were initially concerned with emissions when the solenoids vented but in the 2017 version they just vent to atmosphere. The vacuum line that runs on the PS of the engine is on my engine but I don't see a need for it so I'm thinking I can remove it and plug it. I don't need a vacuum line for the fuel regulator since I'm using the filter/regulator that Forte sells that doesn't have a vacuum reference.

So .... it looks like all I needed to do is tap into the Spectre intake elbow so I can install the JLT PCV fitting so I can connect the DS crankcase vent and all the CMCV fittings/grommets/hose are not needed since the CMCV's are already plumbed up to the intake reservoir? Another curiosity question, why is it that the PS crankcase vent is connected downstream of the throttle plate and the DS crankcase vent is connected on the upstream side of the throttle plate? Just seems to me they would be on the same side???

[edwardb]

I can't answer your last question. No idea why the PCV routing is different from one side vs. the other. But for the CMCV hoses, several builders have reported the change you describe. Starting in 2017, the CMCV vacuum motors are vented to atmosphere rather than the hose up to the intake as in previous years. First time I've heard an "official" Ford explanation. I would have guessed it had something to do with emissions, and you confirmed that.

But you still need to supply a vacuum source to the CMCV system or it will not function and start throwing codes. This isn't clear from the Ford or Factory Five instructions. The vacuum hose on the right (PS) going from the back of the intake and hanging in space out the front needs to be addressed. Don't remove it. In a Mustang, that hose goes to another hose (not included with the crate engine) that attaches to the vacuum port on the front of the engine and also to the vacuum power brake booster. That's how the CMCV system gets the vacuum it needs. Attach the PS hose to the front vacuum port rather than capping it as some FF instructions say. It's the port right behind the throttle body. I also attached this vacuum source to the vacuum reference port on the fuel regulator. But removed it later at the suggestion of my engine tuner. So you're not missing anything not having one.

Hope that makes sense. There are other threads and diagrams on this subject. But it's pretty straightforward now.

[JIMLAND]

Thanks Paul! When I was talking to Steve at Ford Performance Tech Line this morning I had told him I thought the PS line was used to provide a vacuum supply for the vacuum reservoir but he said that line was only needed for the vacuum brake booster and that the vacuum reservoir had its own vacuum source since it's part of the vacuum manifold. I just called him back and asked him again and he said he would check w/ Ford Engineering to see what they say.

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul! When I was talking to Steve at Ford Performance Tech Line this morning I had told him I thought the PS line was used to provide a vacuum supply for the vacuum reservoir but he said that line was only needed for the vacuum brake booster and that the vacuum reservoir had its own vacuum source since it's part of the vacuum manifold. I just called him back and asked him again and he said he would check w/ Ford Engineering to see what they say.

Unless something has changed, it doesn't. There's only one port attachment to the vacuum reservoir on the back and that's the hose going to the front of the engine on the PS side where it gets it's vacuum supply. I didn't have all this sorted out until after my first start. I was throwing CMCV codes every time I ran the engine. The computer was telling them to actuate, but they didn't respond because of no vacuum. Many others have reported the same thing and used the same solution. Remain surprised it's not talked about in any instructions. I'll be interested to hear the response from Ford.

[JIMLAND]

BTW, when I was talking to Vinny at JLT Performance about the vacuum system I asked him if he knew why the DS and PS crankcase vents were on different sides of the throttle plate. He said that the PS crankcase vent has the PCV valve and the DS crankcase vent has no PCV valve. I didn't realize that, I assumed they both had one but looking at it now you can tell the PS has the valve. So the DS crankcase vent is really a filtered fresh air supply from upstream of the throttle plate but downstream of the air filter and the PS crankcase vent is where the crankcase gases vent out thru a PCV valve directly into the intake manifold downstream of the throttle plate. Here's an article that does a good job of describing it: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/197

[Dave Howard]

Another option is to ditch the unsightly vacuum hoses. Especially the PCV hoses. Replace with crankcase filter. Regardless of what you do, the air flow through the intake is altered from stock and custom tune on the engine is recommended for optimum operation/performance.

[JIMLAND]

Update: Talked w/ both Steve and Tom at Ford Performance this week and they both tell me that the vacuum reservoir is tied into the intake manifold internally and that the PS vacuum line connected to the vacuum reservoir is for supplying vacuum to the vacuum booster and not a vacuum supply to the reservoir and could be removed and plugged. Well ....... that just didn't sound right based on the feedback from EdwardB so I decided to see if I could prove it myself with the engine sitting in the stand. I connected a vacuum pump to this PS line and pulled a vacuum (15") and it held. If this vacuum reservoir was actually tied into the intake manifold as Ford Performance stated, then that reservoir should have never been able to hold a vacuum since I had the vacuum port on the intake manifold behind the throttle body opened to atmosphere. I will be connecting this PS line to the vacuum port on the intake manifold. BTW, I cut off the right angle male connector off the plastic Ford intake tubing that connected to the PS vacuum line and with a 3/8" to 1/2" barb adapter I will be able to use the factory quick-lok connector on this PS vacuum line.

[edwardb]

Update: Talked w/ both Steve and Tom at Ford Performance this week and they both tell me that the vacuum reservoir is tied into the intake manifold internally and that the PS vacuum line connected to the vacuum reservoir is for supplying vacuum to the vacuum booster and not a vacuum supply to the reservoir and could be removed and plugged...

Thanks for the follow-up. It would be interesting if they could provide an updated vacuum system diagram like the one below for the 2015 version. I forget where this came from, but was circulating on the forums when we were trying to get the Gen 2 Coyote set up not long after they came out. It shows the now removed DS line from the CMCV system to the intake, so no longer is exactly right for the 2017 Coyote. There could be other changes (and likely are) but the vacuum reservoir here is clearly a closed tank providing vacuum to the CMCV motors and getting the vacuum from the intake. The test you did appears to confirm nothing has changed with the vacuum reservoir. It's real easy to check once you have the engine running. Put a vacuum gauge on the large barb on the back of the intake (the vacuum reservoir) and I'm betting you'll find the same thing I did. Zero vacuum. It has to be supplied by the vacuum port on the intake as already discussed. I'm a little surprised Ford gave you this seemingly incorrect information. The CMCV system was new with the Gen 2 Coyote, yet it's not mentioned in any of the instructions and unless plumbed properly, will throw DTC's as I (and others) found out. As many of these crate engines as they sell, seems they would have a better handle on how this works.

[Svtfreak]

So, for the hot rod, I have to delete the cmcv actuators and pin the valves open. And then, of course, have the tuner turn them off to avoid codes. I have the 17 model just like mr Jim.

I can delete the vac supply line to the reservoir also then? And don’t have to cap the reservoir fittings? And, to get it running, I can just set the actuators on top the intake, and hook a vac line from the intake front behind be TB to the cmcv actuators, plug them in and it should run with no codes, even though they are mechanically not connected to the valves, right? (Although it may not run perfect). I want to get it running and proven before I have a tune done, as I have a whippet to go on it and really didn’t want to pay 500$ for a tune to delete the cmcv’s just for a test run.

[edwardb]

So, for the hot rod, I have to delete the cmcv actuators and pin the valves open. And then, of course, have the tuner turn them off to avoid codes. I have the 17 model just like mr Jim.

I can delete the vac supply line to the reservoir also then? And don’t have to cap the reservoir fittings? And, to get it running, I can just set the actuators on top the intake, and hook a vac line from the intake front behind be TB to the cmcv actuators, plug them in and it should run with no codes, even though they are mechanically not connected to the valves, right? (Although it may not run perfect). I want to get it running and proven before I have a tune done, as I have a whippet to go on it and really didn’t want to pay 500$ for a tune to delete the cmcv’s just for a test run.

I'm not sure where the sensors are that tell the PCM the intake runners moved (or not) when commanded. Maybe what you're describing will keep from getting DTC's. But IMO no big deal if it's throwing codes if you know what they are and why. I did my first start(s) and go-kart runs with the vacuum not connected properly so mine weren't actuating. It ran fine. I just kept clearing the codes until we finally figured it out. BTW, I assume you know there are aftermarket parts for pinning those open in the proper position? This link describes plus has pictures. https://www.svtperformance.com/forum...folds.1112805/

[JIMLAND]

Below shows the CMCV Limit Switch used to provide feedback to the PCM on the position of the CMCV valves. These limit switches connect to the linkage that connects the CMCV vacuum actuator to the CMCV valves.



Ford Performance sent me a vacuum diagram that shows a little more detail than the one I've seen posted before. They said they didn't have a newer one than this one. I believe this represents the vacuum lines on the 2015-16 version of the Coyote where there is a PS vacuum line to provide vacuum to the vacuum reservoir so the CMCV valves can operate and the DS vacuum line that connects to the CMCV electric solenoids to vent the solenoids back to the intake.



On the 2017 version of the Coyote, they eliminated the DS vacuum line and now vent the solenoids to atmosphere. Here is my version of the modified 2017 vacuum system and where I need to connect the PS vacuum line to provide a vacuum supply so that the CMCV operates.

[Svtfreak]

Yeah mr Jim, your first pic shows exactly how my 15 mustang was done and second just like the 17 crate motor. Looks like they did away with what appears to be a redundant supply for vac to the cmcvs.

Mr Ed, thanks for that info. As long as it runs, I can see what code it is and know that’s why.