Engine choice....thoughts????

[Scubasommer]

Hi guys

I have a couple months before my MK4 shows up ....however I have been struggling with which power plant to drop in.
My options are a 1969 351 Windsor bored and stroked to a 427
OR
A 1969 FE motor

I have been bouncing around on this question for months. FE ....to much cockpit heat and nose heavy but that FE Cobra look????
351/427 with better handling while still getting the cubes???

My racing days are pretty much over.....so mostly cruising and show use.
Thoughts?

[irapilot]

For my 2 cents worth I'd go the bored and stroked 351 Windsor route. For the normal cruising around I'd rather have the lighter weight abd better braking and handling that go along with it even if I am not going to fully put it to the test.

Less weight and motor size also makes the install easier ............

[CraigS]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know. That's what I would use. Also there are VCs that kind of duplicate the look of a big block.

[Itchief]

I build mine with a 390FE and while I love the power and sound of a big block a lopey cam and hooker headers here are a few things that you may want to consider

I went with a big block because I had a deal that was too good to pass up a friend at work sold me a crate 390 that he dropped 12k into for 4k

The flywheel clutch pressure plate and bell house will cost you more than a sbf
You will lose space in the pedal box on the drivers side so the space is tight
The weight distributor will change to about 60/40 with about 1700 lbs front and 1000 lbs rear which means you will have to change the front and rear springs and sway bars or at least I did
You may want to include power steering

But having said that the Car is a blast to drive

Rick

[mike223]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know.

+1, and I'd suggest 393 for a more sensible piston / rod / compression height / rod ratio...

The weight distributor will change to about 60/40 with about 1700 lbs front and 1000 lbs rear which means you will have to change the front and rear springs and sway bars or at least I did

That sounds like awful lot in front to me - is that the actual observed weight on your car?

I have previously heard that the FE will run ~125 to 200lbs more than the 351w, when using aluminum heads, intake, and water pump (on both engines).

[Itchief]

Mine is old school with cast iron heads and water pump and the FE seems to sit farther forward than a sbf

Just measured the spring compression southern WV is not the hot rod capital and I did not want to spend the money for a set of scales


Rick

[Bob Cowan]

A stock block 351 can only go to 408 as far as I know. That's what I would use. Also there are VCs that kind of duplicate the look of a big block.

Not true. There are plenty of kits available to bore the stock block .060" over and make a 427. The '69 can handle it because there's enough meat there. Newer blocks are cast with thinner cylinder walls and are limited to 408 cubes.

Personally, I would go with the Windsor stroker. Lighter, smaller, cheaper, and easier to fit in there. Easier to work on later, too.

[mike223]

My racing days are pretty much over.....so mostly cruising and show use.

In this particular case...

You'd save a lot of money, reliability and heartache sticking with OEM parts + displacement.


A stock 302 is plenty to get most people in over their heads, performance wise.

[BluePrintEngines]

Before you rebuild anything you have, especially since this is just for cruising, I'd take a look at our standard blueprint line. Some of the ford smallblocks we sell are cheaper than you can buy the parts and build your own. Plus you get a 30 mo warranty and every engine is dyno tested. I don't think you can beat the price unless you're reusing all the stock rotating assembly and doing the work yourself.

here's a list of SBF engines, sorted from price low-high.
https://blueprintengines.com/collect...rice-ascending

Good luck either way!

[Big Blocker]

You have a lot more options then just those two power plants . . . Starting with a "small" block engine, you can go from 289, 302 (5.0) to 347 (a popular choice with a lot of builders), Light weight, small engine compartment footprint and parts are readily available everywhere.

"Medium" block engines start at 351 and can go to 427 if you want to take it out to it's extreme internal dimensions. An extra 100-150 Lbs but part are still [pretty much] available from all the vendors that will sell you SB parts, although, not as many chioices for manifolds due to engine height in a Cobra.

BIG block, run from 352 to 454 (with stroke kits) and are by far the heaviest (add another 100 Lbs over the 351), even with aluminum parts. And parts are at a premium for these engines. Buying a 50 year old block will absolutely require a block sonic test to verify block integrity. I [personally] would not use a 50 year old crank or rods - nothing but the newest stuff for the rotating assembly.

And then there's always the 385 series engines, 429 and 460 . . . monster motor in a tight space to start and parts are rare without paying top dollar.

AND I haven't even said anything about all the newer "modular" engines available now . . . think all aluminum, overhead cam(s), coil on plugs, factory blowers . . . the [dream] list goes on.

Just my 2¢, I've worked on all of them from time-to-time.



IF you are just thinking about cruising, consider the SBF and some decent rear gears, like 3.25's - great gas mileage, plenty of power for a light car.

Doc

[Itchief]

Doc

From my experience You are correct when you say big block just say mo money

Rick

[Scubasommer]

Thank you!

[Scubasommer]

Doc
Thank you for your input.
The power plant choices I mention are in my garage as I used to build 69’ Mach1’s and still have one
In the garage.
But I also have the 2 “extra” engines which are “half built including block massaging.

Is there a substantial cockpit heat difference in the Cobra?
Thank you again

[Scubasommer]

Rick
Is the lost foot box area significant? I was at the factory a couple weeks ago and sat in Dave’s
Anniversary roadster, and was thinking of opening up the foot box as it is. Also do you feel that there is
Additional heat in the cockpit area...?

Thank you for your input my friend

[Scubasommer]

Not true. There are plenty of kits available to bore the stock block .060" over and make a 427. The '69 can handle it because there's enough meat there. Newer blocks are cast with thinner cylinder walls and are limited to 408 cubes.

Personally, I would go with the Windsor stroker. Lighter, smaller, cheaper, and easier to fit in there. Easier to work on later, too.

Thank you Bob!!!!

[Itchief]

My guess is that you will loose about an inch and a half on the right hand side of the foot box

I wear a size ten shoes and I have to wear driving shoes so that my foot will fit between the brake pedal and the foot box

I installed hushmat summits version of dyna mat on all the cockpit AL panels and then installed carpet which seems to help with the heat

If you decided to go with a big block let me know and I will try to explain some of the issues I had to work through

Good luck

Rick

[erlihemi]

If your serious about an FE and you have FE components already maybe a look at Bear Block Motors or one of the other FE aluminum block castings is worth the time. That and a different forum with other viewpoints just to balance the input.

[Scubasommer]

My guess is that you will loose about an inch and a half on the right hand side of the foot box

I wear a size ten shoes and I have to wear driving shoes so that my foot will fit between the brake pedal and the foot box

I installed hushmat summits version of dyna mat on all the cockpit AL panels and then installed carpet which seems to help with the heat

If you decided to go with a big block let me know and I will try to explain some of the issues I had to work through

Good luck

Rick

Thanks Brother!!! I guess my size 12’s would be an issue ��

[GoDadGo]

A 363 Dart (Factory Five Jedi Friendly Engine) Would Yield Plenty Of Power With The Most Under The Hood Room Possible!

http://dartheads.com/dart-product/shp-short-blocks-sbf/



Unless of course you go to the Dark Dart Side!

https://youtu.be/IGYtX-3p7xk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhbftk4AP4k

[Papa]

Before you rebuild anything you have, especially since this is just for cruising, I'd take a look at our standard blueprint line. Some of the ford smallblocks we sell are cheaper than you can buy the parts and build your own. Plus you get a 30 mo warranty and every engine is dyno tested. I don't think you can beat the price unless you're reusing all the stock rotating assembly and doing the work yourself.

here's a list of SBF engines, sorted from price low-high.
https://blueprintengines.com/collect...rice-ascending

Good luck either way!

I'm very happy with my BluePrint 347 and TKO600. It dyno'd at 438 hp and 415 Lb-Ft. Dropped right into the engine bay and started on the first turn of the key. No leaks, no fuss, and more power than I'll ever be able to use.

Dave

[Just puttering]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

[Bob Cowan]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

If that's your goal, you shouldn't be starting with a FFR.

[Just puttering]

I looks like i missed saying period correct look

[Scubasommer]

It may not matter, but the question that goes through my mind with these questions is -

Are you going to try to make a period correct car down to the smallest details? That could sway your decision!

That’s a great question.....no...too many mods I want to make...

[Big Blocker]

Scuba,

Only reason that the big block is more of a heat factor is it's closer to the side walls of the engine compartment. An engine at 180° is at 180° big or small block.

For the "WOW!" factor, build the big block - nothing screams raw power and brute force more then looking in the engine bay and seeing an FE.

For the clearance you might need with your size 12 feet, build the 351 and push the gas pedal side of the footbox out toward the engine a bit - an easy mod. The 351 can be very potent if put together with the right stuff.

If you just want to cruise around but can't live without the Big block look, build a 302 to a 347 and put the adapters on that let you run FE valve cover. Most people don't know what they are looking anyway an can be fooled into thinking it a BB from just a quick glance. Hell, most can't tell the difference between a 302 and 351 . . . or a 390 and a 427.

If you have all the parts for one engine, go that route and git-er-dun as money-wise as possible and spend you hard earned cash on the mod you want to do.

Doc

[Joee]

I am in hi perf 302 camp but, since you already have the motors and not looking to race I think the 69 would be the way to go. Question are the motors you have completely dressed? If so 69 will look great at shows and the other weekly hood openings.

Then you can always answer the is it a big block question with a hell yes.

And your size 12s are going to add to challenge.

[Big Blocker]

Actually, after re-reading this thread from top to bottom, I still don't know if the "FE" is a 427 or something else in that family. IF it's a 427, side oiler or center oiler, it's going to be expensive to complete. IF it's anything less, it won't be as expensive due to the fact that you won't have to "upgrade" (read: make everything heavy duty) the rest of the drive train. Your standard T5 should hold up quite well to say a 400HP 390. Small blocks push that much thru T5's every day . . .

If it was my car and I had those two engines to pick from, knowing that they are almost complete, I'd build the FE in a heartbeat . . . but that's how I got my forum handle, used to build BB Ford's back in the old days.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle

Doc

[Scubasommer]

Scuba,

Only reason that the big block is more of a heat factor is it's closer....
Doc

Thanks Doc
The FE was a 1969 390 police interceptor that has been bored and stroked to roughly 427 cubes and is sitting in my 1969 Mach1.
The original engine that was in my Mach is the 351 Windsor which I pulled and is sitting on an engine stand bored for a 427 displacement and accompanying block work completed....

Always told my wife that when we hit 50 years old I would build us a cobra and drop that engine in.

Watched Factory Five since 1995 and almost pulled the trigger 3 times, after watching NAF and others in the 80’s with their kits. REALLY like what FF5 has done and progression into.
I lost my wife of 34 years (high school sweetheart) 2 months ago from an aggressive brain cancer ....never sick a day in her life prior. Realized how short life is and what is missed “when life gets in the way”

So I hopped a Train from Chicago to Boston...visited FF5 and my kit is coming in July.

After typing this longgggg reply to you my feelings and mind is made up....351/427 like I told ma’am!!!!

Thanks for the therapy my friend!!
Regards
Jimmy

[Itchief]

I’m sure that you will build a Cobra that she will be proud of

Rick

[JRL16]

I have a 427W from engine factory in mine and am very happy with it. Lots of power and sounds great. Plus I always wanted a 427 in mine when I was considering my build. I know it's not the original 427 engines but still wanted a 427.

[Scubasommer]

I’m sure that you will build a Cobra that she will be proud of

Rick

Thanks Brother!!!!

[Scubasommer]

I have a 427W from engine factory in mine and am very happy with it. Lots of power and sounds great. Plus I always wanted a 427 in mine when I was considering my build. I know it's not the original 427 engines but still wanted a 427.

Does engine factory have a website and do they sell rotating assembly?

[tonywy]

Jimmy, first of all sorry for your loss, can't imagine. In my opinion big block all the way. It may cost you more up front but you will get it back in more ways than one. Nothing sounds ,looks or is as cool .

[JRL16]

Their website is enginefactory.com. Not sure if they’ll sell a partial engine but can’t hurt to ask. Had really good service and engine is incredible.

[CobraboyDR]

Actually, after re-reading this thread from top to bottom, I still don't know if the "FE" is a 427 or something else in that family. IF it's a 427, side oiler or center oiler, it's going to be expensive to complete. IF it's anything less, it won't be as expensive due to the fact that you won't have to "upgrade" (read: make everything heavy duty) the rest of the drive train. Your standard T5 should hold up quite well to say a 400HP 390. Small blocks push that much thru T5's every day . . .

If it was my car and I had those two engines to pick from, knowing that they are almost complete, I'd build the FE in a heartbeat . . . but that's how I got my forum handle, used to build BB Ford's back in the old days.

Just my 2¢ and not worth a plugged nickle

Doc

The "FE's are expensive" is overblown.

Yes, a 427 side or top oiler, Cammer or some 4289's can get spendy. But solid 390's and 406's are definitely not and can be easily dressed to look exactly as even a side-oiler to all but the most FE-intense geeks, and even they ca't get to see the whole block easily. They can even machine simulated cross bolts onto the block skirt.

One company, the folks I used for FE's when I was an SPF dealer---including assembly of my personal side-oiler---is Southern Automotive in McDonough GA. You can get a 390 for almost the same price of a SBF: Southern Automotive 406 FE. 390's are plentiful.

NOTHING looks more impressive than a real FE in a Cobra, period. If you aren't racing, if you're just cruising, the weight difference is no big deal. Put on aluminum heads, intake and water pump and they don't weigh more than a standard 351w.

[BluePrintEngines]

I'm very happy with my BluePrint 347 and TKO600. It dyno'd at 438 hp and 415 Lb-Ft. Dropped right into the engine bay and started on the first turn of the key. No leaks, no fuss, and more power than I'll ever be able to use.

Dave

Thank you! people forget we have everything from a little 302 to a 427 in the SBF lineup!
http://factoryfiveengines.com/bluepr...carbureted-mk4

[broku518]

I guess it all depends on your experience level and willingness to get dirty and tweak as needed.
I am on 'don't do anything with the engine unless you have to!" side

I picked dart shp 347, tko600 and read end (all new) from Mike Forte. Don't ask me why - I really liked the old style look of it and simplicity. And, I 'bug' Mike all the time, and the support is just outstanding.

[Avalanche325]

These days, a big block is good for two things. 1. Car shows. 2. You just gotta have it. If that is you, go for it. They have their own awesomeness and definitely a wow factor.

Besides that, a small block is the way to go. Lower cost, easier to work on, you can get tons of power and torque from a stroker. If you want these cars to perform, you want to keep them light, and keep the weight rear biased. In the real Cobra world, the 289 was an unbelievable success on the track. The 427......not really. Maybe that's not quite fair because race cars were moving into aerodynamics and having a roof. But the records say what the records say. The 427 is the wow factor car though because it is so outrageous.

With that said......here is my real advice. Within your financial constraints of course. Build the car, that if you drove it to a Cobra event and you could drive any car there back home, yours is the car that you would choose. You are doing the right thing by thinking it through now. If a certain engine sings to you, and is going to fit what you want to do with the car, go for it.

I built my car to drive, perform very well, be quick at autocross, and have the old school vibe. That sent me straight to a 347. Car shows are very far form being my thing. That may have led me elsewhere, engine-wise.

[japollon]

I have a small block 427 in a Detomaso Pantera. Had I to do it over again, I would do exactly the same thing. It's been a great motor. Maybe not as torquey as a big block but very strong through the mid-range. It's kind of the best of both worlds in my view. Just my 2 cents. Joel

[Scubasommer]

Thank you! people forget we have everything from a little 302 to a 427 in the SBF lineup!
http://factoryfiveengines.com/bluepr...carbureted-mk4

Do you guys offer rotating assemblies? There are parts I wish to get for the internals of my prepped 1969 351w block?