Poor GTM body quality control

[carbon fiber]

They shouldn't make sections and then glass them together, it should be made as ONE PIECE in a multi-piece mold that is bolted together. Hopefully the next car body they make will be cut out by a muliti-axis machine and a proper set of molds will be created. As far as the asymmetry in the doors, I have a set of Gen I and Gen II doors and neither set match from side to side. Not even close. Just like all the other parts of the body. Care was not taken when shaping this body (or measurements either) It's time to fix it or stop making it and move on with better technology. To me, it would be worth the effort to make a refined Gen III GTM body. It's a fantastic performer, you already have the frame jigs, and I think it would sell better than ever if they'd just fix the body. (I've talked to so many people that would have bought this kit if the body issues weren't there) I disagree with Crash also (not the first time) that it's run it's course. Donor vettes are everywhere, cheap. You can get the 996 Carrera 2 transaxles at great prices and they're strong enough in this light of a car. It's never been easier or cheaper to put a transaxle in one of these. If the body issues were corrected, the kit would still have a lot of life left IMHO.

[Presto51]

Those parting lines look GREAT compared to my MKIII roadster.

Just sayin'...

David your joking ....Right

Ron, is there a step off /height difference between the panels or just a wide strip of gelcoat?

Beeman,

I have noticed that the joints have a step/height difference. Even if just a small misalignment in the sections, with a complex body shape such as the GTM, they start to compound the problems.

I do hope that the factory will continue the GTM and improve their QC across the board on all of their body lines, I want them to succeed as much as the rest of the forum members.

Ron

[RM1SepEx]

In today's environment there is no excuse for the the hand made variation in the FFR panels. There is 1/2 to 3/4 inch variation in measurements between the door openings in my 818 and the rear body to engine cover interface is so bad it can't be made to align w/o bodywork and it was sold as a no paint car. They need to do two things: Simplify the body to make it easier to mold the panels and actually use the CAD files to make the molds for the panels. Right now their expert body shaper nuances everything and it doesn't result in the two sides being close to matching. The car should be designed from the centerline and mirrored so both sides are identical. The parting lines are positioned so that the panels bolt together across 3 dimensions making alignment almost impossible.

Their quality control is virtually non existent when it comes to fiberglass and gel coat. My car has 4000 miles on the road and I've had the body crack and pop out voids in the gel coat in at least 40 places... I've never bought anything made of fiberglass that had to be reworked when purchased, and you have to beg to get a gel coat repair kit to match. And these are my second set of panels...

Next their frames to body match and alignment results in slotted holes that always end up at the extreme end of the slot? How the hell does that happen every single time. One side of my windshield frame it at one end of the slots, the other is at the other end of the slots. And the measurements are still not exactly the same. The door latch slots had to be ground longer with a die grinder or the bracket wouldn't mount up flush to the bodywork.

They could actually save money if they did it right in the first place they could save so much customer service resources.

[dallas_]

For comparison, here is how the SL-C body comes from the factory:



Some tiny mold lines that can be sanded down so they are not visible. You can buff it and it looks like paint.

Again, I'm a FFR fan and want them to be successful. I'm not posting this to bash them, but I will say I wanted to build a GTM but the quality of the body caused me to go a different direction.

[Erik W. Treves]

In today's environment there is no excuse for the the hand made variation in the FFR panels. There is 1/2 to 3/4 inch variation in measurements between the door openings in my 818 and the rear body to engine cover interface is so bad it can't be made to align w/o bodywork and it was sold as a no paint car. They need to do two things: Simplify the body to make it easier to mold the panels and actually use the CAD files to make the molds for the panels. Right now their expert body shaper nuances everything and it doesn't result in the two sides being close to matching. The car should be designed from the centerline and mirrored so both sides are identical. The parting lines are positioned so that the panels bolt together across 3 dimensions making alignment almost impossible.

Their quality control is virtually non existent when it comes to fiberglass and gel coat. My car has 4000 miles on the road and I've had the body crack and pop out voids in the gel coat in at least 40 places... I've never bought anything made of fiberglass that had to be reworked when purchased, and you have to beg to get a gel coat repair kit to match. And these are my second set of panels...

Next their frames to body match and alignment results in slotted holes that always end up at the extreme end of the slot? How the hell does that happen every single time. One side of my windshield frame it at one end of the slots, the other is at the other end of the slots. And the measurements are still not exactly the same. The door latch slots had to be ground longer with a die grinder or the bracket wouldn't mount up flush to the bodywork.

They could actually save money if they did it right in the first place they could save so much customer service resources.

Dallas

Man every time I see that car... I am like... I need to build one of those. Unfortunately the rules of the house state that I can only have 1 of these 4 wheeled motorcycles in the house at a time...lol.... I can do 2 ... Build 1 , but the other must be for sale at the time of the purchase Ahhhh the problems to have... My wife puts up with me and she is my rock... so that is great with me... The other thing for me personally is the price point to get into a SLC which really does need to be painted (IMO) given the exotic nature of the car... I was actually really thinking about doing a twin turbo H6 motor with STI tranny.... leave it to me to color outside the lines.... can you send me a PM of where your build thread is located if you have one?? Good luck on the build!

Dan - I gotta say ... the comparison between the 818 and GTM is not even in the same ballpark... they were built and designed using 2 different technologies and methods. The 818 being the first "update" to their process and your car being the very early production car that didn't have all the changes made to it from the Beta cars.... I tried to get mine built as fast as I could (4 months) to get the changes into production as soon as I found them.... unfortunately the train continues.... The newer runs are SUPERIOR to your car now - so going first on a new run car isn't always good as you are finding.... and shouldn't have been a surprise...I can tell you my latest car in build quality is better than my first.... The GEN 2 GTM was built with old methods albeit still hand laid ; non-vacuumed glass layup. This process will have voids no matter what .... until they go to vacuum impregnated method (reads $$$$) then AGAIN at the price break point "things" will happen. --- Factory Five does recognize that and I know for a fact that they go to great lengths to at least try and do right by customers.... you stated you were on your second set of panels.... I would guess factory five gave those panels for FREE?? did you have to exchange them or do you currently have to 818 complete panel sets? Anyway... sorry couldn't leave that one alone....

Dallas... now I am going to have spend the evening looking at the RCR website....lol... thanks for that pic.... nice machine you have there!!

Keith.... BTW do have pics of your car and what color are you going with?? Having pics of issues and resolution (if any) are always useful on the forum as you know... I know you said you posted on the "other forum" I search around and only found a few posts and since PB stopped working over there and the ads , I ultimately stopped going over there...

BTW I did see in one of your pics you have the heater/blower in the stock location...I noticed in mine (after the build was done) that when it was really cold out, if the blower is sucking cold air the heater does not work very well at all at speed.... Shane again to the rescue.... his solution would fix that!

Starting to warm up out there! lol... well at least in Alabama... had to go by the local Autozone and thank them for their service during my build.... left my mark there... approaching 500 miles finally!



NO ARKING now.... lol...

[dallas_]

Thanks Erik. No build thread, but I'm getting closer! Hope to take it to the Texas Cobra Club meet in San Marcos next month.

(sorry for the thread drift)

[beeman]

They shouldn't make sections and then glass them together, it should be made as ONE PIECE in a multi-piece mold that is bolted together.

I'm 99.9% sure that's how FFR does it

[carbon fiber]

For comparison, here is how the SL-C body comes from the factory:



Some tiny mold lines that can be sanded down so they are not visible. You can buff it and it looks like paint.

Again, I'm a FFR fan and want them to be successful. I'm not posting this to bash them, but I will say I wanted to build a GTM but the quality of the body caused me to go a different direction.

EXACTLY What I've heard at least a hundred times myself. They'd have sold thousands if it came with a body as nice as the SLC. And nobody give me that "but it's 46k" bull. Most of the extra cost of the SLC is for the aluminum chassis and cnc suspension parts. If FFR re-bodied the GTM with that kind of quality and didn't change anything else, they'd sell a ton of them.

[carbon fiber]

Dallas



Dan - I gotta say ... the comparison between the 818 and GTM is not even in the same ballpark... they were built and designed using 2 different technologies and methods. The 818 being the first "update" to their process and your car being the very early production car that didn't have all the changes made to it from the Beta cars.... I tried to get mine built as fast as I could (4 months) to get the changes into production as soon as I found them.... unfortunately the train continues.... The newer runs are SUPERIOR to your car now - so going first on a new run car isn't always good as you are finding.... and shouldn't have been a surprise...I can tell you my latest car in build quality is better than my first.... The GEN 2 GTM was built with old methods albeit still hand laid ; non-vacuumed glass layup. This process will have voids no matter what .... until they go to vacuum impregnated method (reads $$$$) then AGAIN at the price break point "things" will happen. --- Factory Five does recognize that and I know for a fact that they go to great lengths to at least try and do right by customers.... you stated you were on your second set of panels.... I would guess factory five gave those panels for FREE?? did you have to exchange them or do you currently have to 818 complete panel sets? Anyway... sorry couldn't leave that one alone....

I can't leave this comment alone either... You're actually bashing a guy that has legitimate complaints and just wanted what he was sold. Do you think he just wanted an extra set of body panels? That sounds like what you're insinuating. He should have expected low quality issues from an early kit? REALLY?
Sounds to me like he was sold a kit & body billed as vastly improved over their previous models and it wasn't the case at all. The 818 is hand shaped just like the GTM and has similar body alignment and symmetry issues. I saw the pics of the 818 being shaped that leaked out before the design contest was even over. BY HAND. The "early kit" b.s. really pisses me off. What a lame excuse for poor craftsmanship. Why isn't everything sorted out before the first kit leaves the factory? I'm sick and tired of FFR fan boys like you defending FFR when you know these problems are real. They have a chance to redeem themselves in the future with these new projects they're working on. I hope they put out a product as nice as Fran Hall, they haven't yet, and this comes from a guy who owns a GTM would like to see FFR reach that level. "going to great lengths" would be MAKING THE KIT RIGHT in the first place. Or maybe the new SUPERLITE GTR is my next projectsuperlite gtr.jpg

[Erik W. Treves]

Not bashing the guy or insinuating anything close to what you seem to describe... "He should have expected low quality issues from an early kit? REALLY?" No, I am saying that he should not have been surprised..... how many times have you heard people say they wouldn't buy the first year run of any OEM car??? wonder why that is?? Look at the Mustang GT350 and the vibration issue with the new engine... or the Nissan GTR and its early transmission issue.....there are 2 sides to every story obviously... Dan has PM'd me . And I appreciate him taking it off line with me...I maybe sound like I am defending them... not that they need it IMO, as I said, managing expectations.... I am honest and open about the amount of work the bodywork takes when asked...The "early kit" b.s. really pisses me off. ... the Mark 1 kit cobra is a far cry from the Mark IV... that took them years to get to that point.... in the end it is just part of it, at the price point in my eyes... I wish I was in a position to do a car like have pictured above.... someday.... super nice car btw! and I will end up doing a SLC I think....

Nothing we say here will fix the issue the OP is having....or sway opinions one way or another.... hopefully the bodyshop will fix him up.

[David Hodgkins]

This thread has turned into bashing FFR and recommending other kits.

carbon fiber is banned for a week.

Closed.