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Thread: Power brakes or no power brakes?

  1. #1
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    Power brakes or no power brakes?

    Just looking for opinions...........do you really need it on these cars?
    Last edited by stevant; 02-25-2018 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Itchief's Avatar
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    Congratulations let the fun begin

    Rick
    #8475 Complete Kit Delivered Nov 2014, started Nov 2015, Street Legal Apr 2016, Paint and Interior Completed Aug 2017, 390 BBF, March accessory kit, MSD Atomic EFI and Ready to run, TKO 500 with MidShift kit, hooker headers, 3 link, track lock with 3.55, sway bars, power steering, wipers, heater

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    Thanks Rick.....I've moved it into the Roadster Build section!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Just puttering's Avatar
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    It may not work, i have no clue, but just saw this a few days ago.

    http://www.abspowerbrake.com

    They have an electric over hydraulic master cylinder. It is interesting, power brakes but no big booster can on the firewall and no need for a vacuum line!
    Mk3.1 347 AFR 205cc Race Heads EFI siemens deca 60lb injectors MSD 6AL ignition Vortech V-3 3 Link PS/PB

  5. #5
    wareaglescott's Avatar
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    I would say you definitely don't "need" it. I'm sure a strong case could be made why it would be nice. I don't have it on mine and have never driven a Cobra that does so I cant really compare. I can say I do not really miss it.
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
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  6. #6
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    That depends on the manual brakes you are comparing to. The big Wilwood upgrade- no power needed. Stock Mustang- need some careful tuning and pad compound choice to make these work. But this is fairly well established at this point.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  7. #7


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    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    I agree with Craig. Tell us what brake system you plan to use.

    Jeff

  8. #8
    Senior Member jwebb's Avatar
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    I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!
    MK4 #9121 - Complete kit - Stroked 351, T5x, 3.55 Rear End, 3-Link - Pickup 6/17/17, 1st start 12/2/17, Go-Kart 12/9/17, Road Worthy 4/27/18

  9. #9
    Itchief's Avatar
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    I used the EBC bluestuff pads and I am very happy with the brakes much better than the pads supplied with the kit

    Rick
    Last edited by Itchief; 02-26-2018 at 12:12 PM.
    #8475 Complete Kit Delivered Nov 2014, started Nov 2015, Street Legal Apr 2016, Paint and Interior Completed Aug 2017, 390 BBF, March accessory kit, MSD Atomic EFI and Ready to run, TKO 500 with MidShift kit, hooker headers, 3 link, track lock with 3.55, sway bars, power steering, wipers, heater

  10. #10
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Change the pads to one of the HAWK products depending on how you are going to use the car. Huge difference between them & the FFR pads which scared the crap out of me.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '13/TKO-600
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  11. #11
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Hawk HPS is quite good w/ little dust. HPS5.0 is the newer version and may offer slightly more grip. HP+ has fantastic grip but is pretty dusty. Street/Race is the newer version and has similar grip (maybe a little more) and dust to HP+. All of these work well at ambient temps so are good for the street. Not all of the compounds are available in all pad sizes.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  12. #12
    Unconventional Builder Joee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwebb View Post
    I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!
    Yes for some it takes a bit to get used to manual brakes especially if your daily is newer. I like to be able to choose if I wish to almost lock them or just feather the brakes, power takes feel away. Also with manual you need to get some heat in the pads to reduce effort needed to stop. My race pads HP+ dont even work out back in temps below 40 deg unitl hot sometimes I will lightly drag the ebrake to heat them up. To answer your question as said above no not needed.
    Roadster Mk3 5294, 302 Comp XE276HR cam, AFR 185 heads, 650 Quick fuel carb, Air Gap intake, T-5 3.55 gear Levy Upper & Lower Front and Rear control arms Purch Jan 2008 Tagged Mar 2012 Best ET 12.14 @113** SOLD 4/8/18 **
    YouTube Videos: Current performance - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7c...86xO3U4l4RtVMQ Older build - http://www.youtube.com/user/joeembery#p/u My Pics:
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  13. #13
    Member Jim Doak's Avatar
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    Needed? No.

    Nice to have? Absolutely.

    I originally had manual brakes using the recommended master cylinder, brake pedal mod, etc. Worked fine. However, I retrofit hydroboost power brakes in 2006 and much prefer the current setup to the manual brake system.

    I'll wager that if you ask guys like me who have driven both or retrofit from manual to power their preference, the majority will prefer the power brake setup.

    Perform a search on this topic on this and the other forum: It's been discussed ad nauseam...
    Last edited by Jim Doak; 02-26-2018 at 03:07 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwebb View Post
    I have the standard brake package with a complete kit, what pads are recommended as during go kart I noticed you needed to push pretty hard to stop!
    Whatever pads you use, be sure to bed them according to the manufacturer's directions. Makes a world of difference in stopping power.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

  15. #15

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    80 plus cars and I try to talk every customer into power brakes.
    Mike

  16. #16
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    I have the Whitby power brake setup in mine and am glad I installed them. I'm old enough to remember learning and driving many cars with manual brakes and really don't see a need to do it again. As expensive as these cars are to build a little more money spent on brakes is worth it to me.
    JRL16
    Mk4 delivered 4/28/16. First start 10/15/16. First gocart 11/10/16. Engine Factory 427W. 750 carb. Tremec TKO600. 2015 IRS. Power steering. Whitby power brakes. Wilwood brakes. 18" wheels. Falken tires. Sway bars front and rear. Forte hydraulic clutch and mechanical throttle linkage. Scott's Hot Rods triple reservoir. Ceramic coated headers. Gas’n sidepipes. Heated seats. Herb Fraser walnut door panels. Wipers. Console.

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    I’m going with the Wilwood brakes on the build, Gordon Levy setup as I’m using the 15” wheels with the IRS. I’ve driven a MK4 with manual, was not sure what brake system it had but it took a few stop and gos to get the feel. Is the hydroboost setup a true power brake or is is power assisted if that makes any sense. Some power brakes are more sensitive than others.

  18. #18
    edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevant View Post
    I’m going with the Wilwood brakes on the build, Gordon Levy setup as I’m using the 15” wheels with the IRS. I’ve driven a MK4 with manual, was not sure what brake system it had but it took a few stop and gos to get the feel. Is the hydroboost setup a true power brake or is is power assisted if that makes any sense. Some power brakes are more sensitive than others.
    Whether vacuum or hydroboost they are power assisted. There is a direct mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the master cylinder when you push it. Either the vacuum diaphragm or hydraulic pump multiplies the force. Similar concept as traditional hydraulic power steering assist.
    Last edited by edwardb; 02-27-2018 at 07:14 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
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  19. #19
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    power brake and power steering is going to be a nice effortless cruiser. If you dont want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while. I am using a fox mustang background as my experience.
    F5R9196 Hand built 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air | 315/35ZR17 & 275/40ZR17 NT555

    "I’ve been watching your build with admiration (this guys got his sh*t together). You just took it to a whole new level. " ~David Hammer

  20. #20
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    John said it best. BED THE PADS PROPELY before making a decision.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    my vote is for power brakes.
    I have NEVER regretted having or installing power brakes.
    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

  22. #22
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    I have driven my car for years without power brakes and it has never been an issue for me.

    Bill

  23. #23

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    Yeah- what Mike Everson said- only 35 cars though. Never had a customer say I wish I didn't have power brakes.
    FFinisher/AKA RE63

  24. #24
    Senior Member Todd Buttrick's Avatar
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    I have power assist brakes. They look like this...



  25. #25
    Senior Member Packer fan's Avatar
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    I drove a mk4 last fall and when I ordered my kit I had to call the guy that was nice enough to let me drive his car to find out weather he had power brakes or not because it stopped nicely. He doesn’t have power brakes, and I won’t either as a result of that drive...... at least until I change my mind. : )
    Mk4 ordered 1/3/18, IRS, Coyote, T56 Magnum

  26. #26
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

    Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

    Just my 2¢

    and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  27. #27
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

    Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

    Just my 2¢

    and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

    Doc
    I think things are getting taken the wrong way around here lately. I used the words "may" and "my experience" and you seem to have left those words out in the quote.

    But, I digress, people see what they want to see.
    Last edited by TexasAviator; 03-12-2018 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Grammar
    F5R9196 Hand built 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air | 315/35ZR17 & 275/40ZR17 NT555

    "I’ve been watching your build with admiration (this guys got his sh*t together). You just took it to a whole new level. " ~David Hammer

  28. #28

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    So, after all this I say NO !.....well maybe....actually, kinda yes but iffin ya....So, I drove my car 10 years no power.....because of what I do I have driven a whole lot of cars with power. I APPRICIATE POWER BRAKES...do I wish I had had them , not really...will my 289 have them (yes).....I'll tell ya what. getting out of your daily driver and getting into your roadster w/power brakes is easy. The other way around,,,,getting in without power and changing your mindset to shove that peddle to the floor in an emergency sitch could cause a little prob. Ya gotta remember "back in the day" Power brakes were an option ( That's why mom's 64 Plymouth wagon had a brake peddle 12in wide for both feet)....to sum it up A. My glass I'm empty and I need more rum, and 3.You won't be sorry if ya go power...da Bat

  29. #29
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Who needs brakes? These cars are meant to go..

    Choosing the correct master cylinder, can make a big difference if you go the non-power route. Larger diameter bore, 15/16" or 1", along with the right choice of brake pads, (properly broken in),and non-power will just work fine. It's a light car.
    If your leg muscles are a concern, now, or may be a concern in the future, power is the route to go, as you do need to push fairly hard doing a panic stop.

  30. #30
    Member cwrandolph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC Bill View Post
    Who needs brakes? These cars are meant to go..

    Larger diameter bore, 15/16" or 1", along with the right choice of brake pads, (properly broken in),and non-power will just work fine.
    A smaller diameter MC bore will provide more pressure to the brake cylinders for the same pedal effort. Less volume but more force.

  31. #31
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    what might be effective in this back and forth on power vs manual would be a poll thread. Or make one here if possible. As you can see people are passionate on both sides.
    F5R9196 Hand built 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air | 315/35ZR17 & 275/40ZR17 NT555

    "I’ve been watching your build with admiration (this guys got his sh*t together). You just took it to a whole new level. " ~David Hammer

  32. #32
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    There are almost too many variables in individual driver expectation / hardware / and implementation to discuss it intelligently on the internet (as in - internet attention span).

    All this installed in short wheelbase cars with unusual weight bias and (various) staggered fitment tires that are by nature always going to be brake bias sensitive.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Dave Howard's Avatar
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    I agree with Craig way up the top of this thread. I installed the Wilwood upgrade. NO power brakes required. Minimum effort for braking and as I've said before, "a little girl can lock them up".

  34. #34
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post
    Quote: "If you don't want any power options, I think you may grow tired of it after a while."

    Just to throw this out there, I have been on manual brakes now for 15+ years and can't even imagine adding power. True, I do have 13" rotors in front with PBR calipers and the T-Bird 11.63 Cobra rotors/calipers in back but NO POWER to help out otherwise.

    Just my 2¢

    and if you are still in the building stage and want power everything . . . I say; Go FOR IT! . . . it's your car, build it the way you want it to be. DON'T build it for anyone on this or any other forum.

    Doc
    Just spoke with you off this thread. Thanks for clarifying that. I see your point of many trying to butt in on what may or may not be a must have. I appreciate you using me to back up your thought and not in a way that is attacking anyone. Its ironic we are talking about this. I am doing a team dynamic paper on my Master Degree with a concentration on virtual teams. We are in fact a virtual team right here on this forum. I have met few that are on here in a negative reservation but some are out there. I find you can tell the ones that are not with you in your journey as the silent ones. They are usually posting around you but never with you. Its quite noticeable.
    F5R9196 Hand built 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air | 315/35ZR17 & 275/40ZR17 NT555

    "I’ve been watching your build with admiration (this guys got his sh*t together). You just took it to a whole new level. " ~David Hammer

  35. #35
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    I went without power brakes using Mustang Cobra (13"/12.88") brakes. Motor is a "moderately" cammed 347 so not much vacuum at idle so vacuum power assist was a non-starter for me. I did not opt for power steering (not much fun paralell parking) so no power steering pump for a hydro-boost.
    Makes for a clean installation but as the years pass I will likely come to want the power steering/brakes for OK for now.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    Are you a manly man or a girly man?

    I am a big fan of Wilwoods. I drove a MKI with stock brakes that was not much short of terrifying brake-wise. I am sure that the stock brakes now are much better. That being said, no one has ever had a car that could stop too fast.

    I would consider power brakes with a more standard setup.

  37. #37
    Member Frank Messina's Avatar
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    Power brakes are not necessary IMO. But for many with various combinations of parts and pads, power assist is the great equalizer in the grand scheme of things. Personally I prefer manual.

    Frank
    FFR 4440 - V8, Manual Trans, Htr, WSW, IRS. I wouldn't change a thing.

  38. #38
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    I'm afraid to respond...LOL. I appreciate everyone's opinion. As that's one of the reason why we build our cars. My kit should be here in a few weeks so I will be posting my progress. Looking forward to everyone's input. Thanks for the vast amount of responses.

  39. #39
    Brandon #9196 TexasAviator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevant View Post
    I'm afraid to respond...LOL. I appreciate everyone's opinion. As that's one of the reason why we build our cars. My kit should be here in a few weeks so I will be posting my progress. Looking forward to everyone's input. Thanks for the vast amount of responses.
    don't be its all in good fun. We all have our own way of doing the car
    I think you will find your way.
    F5R9196 Hand built 347 475hp EFI | T5Z | LSD 3.73 3-link | Power Steering | Power Brakes | Vintage Air | 315/35ZR17 & 275/40ZR17 NT555

    "I’ve been watching your build with admiration (this guys got his sh*t together). You just took it to a whole new level. " ~David Hammer

  40. #40
    Papa's Avatar
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    Steve (OP) asked a question to get feedback and opinions. Plenty have been provided, and there is obviously no one-size-fits-all for this particular build decision. The problem for those of us that are new to these cars is that we often have no experience driving them and have to decipher the opinions of those that have. I learned to drive in a car with manual everything -- almost to the Flintstone level! All the cars I've owned since have had power steering and brakes until now with my MKIV. I split the difference on mine and went with power steering and manual brakes (Wilwood). My faded memories of that first car were more about trying to steer the car in a parking situation rather than getting the car to stop. With just my go-cart experience, I'm very happy with the decisions I've made. The steering feels perfect so far, although I haven't had the car above about 50 MPH. The braking feels good, but I haven't done any hard "panic" stops yet. So, after 40 posts to this thread, Steve still gets to decide for himself what he builds.
    There are 10 types of people in this world;
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    My Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ter-Build-9754

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