Why can't I get a set of headers that fit?

[Papa]

I bought a set of headers from Georgie at Gas-N. I have a Blueprint 347, so a 302 block, but 351 heads. The first set I got were for 302 heads and the driver's side didn't fit and was hitting the motor mount. Georgie sent me a replacement set for 351 heads, but these fit worse.







I beat the crap out of the last set to get the driver's side to "fit", and I'm not going to do that again. The motor is sitting nice and level in the mounts and I can't see how shimming it would make a difference, but I could be wrong. I'm about ready to order the stupid $$$ 351 headers from FF or try to get a set of shorty headers that will work with the J-Pipes that came with the kit. I'm really frustrated at this point and never imagined that I would spend more time fitting headers than it's taken to build the rest of the car. I ordered headers and pipes in September and have two sets of headers that don't fit and no pipes.

[mikeinatlanta]

What's Gas-N say? Moving a single pipe is no big deal.

[wallace18]

I always use FFR headers with no problems.

[stack]

what do you mean 351 heads? The heads on a 302 and a 351 are the same for the most part. You need headers for a 302. 351 headers are different because the block is taller and the head sits higher up. You need 302 headers no matter what you block is stroked out to

stack

[Papa]

What's Gas-N say? Moving a single pipe is no big deal.

I'm waiting for a response.

[Papa]

what do you mean 351 heads? The heads on a 302 and a 351 are the same for the most part. You need headers for a 302. 351 headers are different because the block is taller and the head sits higher up. You need 302 headers no matter what you block is stroked out to

stack

I'm just quoting what Gas-N told me as to why the first set didn't fit. The 351 headers are worse, so what you said makes a lot of sense right now.

[mikeinatlanta]

What specific heads to you have? Many don't have ports in stock location. No headers existed that fit my TrickFlows.

[Papa]

What specific heads to you have? Many don't have ports in stock location. No headers existed that fit my TrickFlows.

The heads are Blueprint's own part number. I find it hard to believe I'd be the only guy to try to fit headers on one of these engines. The tubes are hitting the frame where the motor mount sits. I'm going to try to move the engine around and see if it makes a difference.

[karlos]

Hope you can get them to work, but if not these guys can help: http://www.stainlessheaders.com/ Artists that happen to be in the business of making headers.

My setup is somewhat less common (Z-head 427) but they were able to make something up from scratch that fit perfectly. About a 3-week delivery time if I recall.

[Papa]

I feel like I already know the answer to this, but could/should I try to trim some of the frame where the motor mount sits?

[Boydster]

I had a lot of problems getting the drivers GAS-N pipe to fit, exact same issue on a 351 based engine. Georgie said its because he sent me 302 headers, and now that I have 351 based headers, they fit, but the drivers GAS-N sidepipe is 1.5" off the floor at the tip. Passenger side has been good since day 1, header and sidepipe.

[Papa]

Hope you can get them to work, but if not these guys can help: http://www.stainlessheaders.com/ Artists that happen to be in the business of making headers.

My setup is somewhat less common (Z-head 427) but they were able to make something up from scratch that fit perfectly. About a 3-week delivery time if I recall.

Karlos

Thanks for the tip. I will probably be giving them a call this week.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

what do you mean 351 heads? The heads on a 302 and a 351 are the same for the most part. You need headers for a 302. 351 headers are different because the block is taller and the head sits higher up. You need 302 headers no matter what you block is stroked out to

stack

This is 100% correct.

Jeff

[AC Bill]

The FFR headers for the 302, are made by BBK, and fit like a glove. I've never heard of fitting issues with them. Maybe go that route?

I'd get the ceramic coated ones, and buy Remflex gaskets, instead of using the included BBK ones.

[Papa]

Georgie had me loosen the motor and trans mount and jack up the engine to see if I could shim the mount and get the needed clearance. Even with the motor completely out of the mount (raised about 1/4" on the driver's side, the header doesn't sit flush against the head and the pipe closest to the firewall is hitting the frame that supports the motor mount. Now he wants me to grind the frame opening to let the engine sit in the mount, but be tilted with the passenger side lower than the driver's side. I think that would look ridiculous. As I already said, the passenger side looks great as-is. I'm seriously ready to try a different source at this point and not continue to fight it. The American Racing headers that Gas-N sells are quite a bit different design than the ones I see on Factory Five's website. My concern with going with a different source is that the standard flange that I imagine FF's headers use won't work with my angled plugs. Gerogie's headers were made using a CNC cut flange that fits around my ports and allows my plug wires to still go on correctly. Has anyone with the Blueprint 347 used the FF 302 headers with success?

[Papa]

This is the header flange that fits my heads:



This is likely why Georgie believes that the FFR headers won't work on my car.

[Fixit]

2nd on "Stack's" reply - 351w is a "tall deck" engine, and any headers built for a "351 (block) car" are going to have another inch+ of down-length to exit the same place as a "short deck" (260/289/302) block. I'll bet this extra inch is what's giving you the clearance problem. Exhaust port spacing & bolt holes are the same. (Back in the day I put 351-4V heads on my snotty 302 build for a Mustang - direct bolt on except for steam holes I recall)

[Papa]

I sent an e-mail to the guys karlos recommended. They actually make a header for the Factory Five Roadster with the newer Ford Z304 heads.

http://stainlessheaders.eclipticcms.com/z304cobra

[karlos]

... My concern with going with a different source is that the standard flange that I imagine FF's headers use won't work with my angled plugs. Gerogie's headers were made using a CNC cut flange that fits around my ports and allows my plug wires to still go on correctly.

I think you're right, Dave. Looks like the header flange on the FFR offering is so tall that it will partially obscure the spark plug hole. The specially contoured flange you need is not unique to Gas-N, though. Photo below shows the Stainless Headers design.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I have a car here for body & paint with a set of Stainless Headers in stainless with merged collectors and must say they are a work of art. Wasn't up to speed on their pricing until viewing the link Dave posted just now and was pleasantly surprised...kind of looks like a no brainer to me!

Jeff

[Papa]

I think you're right, Dave. Looks like the header flange on the FFR offering is so tall that it will partially obscure the spark plug hole. The specially contoured flange you need is not unique to Gas-N, though. Photo below shows the Stainless Headers design.

Those look fantastic! Did you have to do anything special to get them adjusted side-to-side or did they just fit out of the box?

[karlos]

Yeah, they're beautiful. Here's an overall view showing the double merge collector with provision for the O2 sensor. Fit was perfect as-delivered, and no clearance issues to the motor mounts, footboxes, or anything else. Will definitely be going back to these guys when the time comes...

[Frank Messina]

With perhaps the exception of the lucky Stainless Headers guys, it seems like everybody spends time in this quagmire. Over the years it's been either the headers, or the sidepipes or both; It's almost like a rite of passage that you weren't expecting. It'll all work out eventually. Sorry I can't offer more than that. Good luck
Frank

[Papa]

Georgie called and left me a message today. He would like to send an engineer out to my house to see what is going on and will make corrections to his jig if necessary. We're working to try to figure out when to make this happen. As I settle down and think about this, I have to say that Georgie is doing everything he can to make it right.

Dave

[WIS89]

Wow Dave, I certainly agree with you about them doing everything they can to make this right!

I am certainly sorry you are struggling with this, but I can't imagine better customer service, frankly.

I have always said that it is not the absence of mistakes that makes a company great. Rather, it is how they respond the the mistakes that will undoubtedly happen that ultimately make a company great. Sounds like everything will ultimately be OK.

I look forward to the updates! Hang tough.

Regards,

Steve

[Yama-Bro]

Has anyone with the Blueprint 347 used the FF 302 headers with success?

Dave, I'm pretty sure others have done this. The Factory Five half roadster should have this combo. Maybe they could tell you what they did to get theirs to work, if anything.