Getting Ready to Pull the Trigger...Couple of ?'s

[cv2065]

Hey guys. Getting ready to pull the trigger on a new kit and start the adventure. Very excited...

So a couple of questions:
1. Is it better to start with a complete kit or pull from a donor? I'm kind of an old school carb guy so kind of leaning towards a new build as I can't get that from a newer mustang, and it will add time to the build having to tear the donor apart. Perhaps a stroked 351W will be more my speed. Maybe I just answered my own question, but wanted to know thoughts either way.

2. What's the lead time on a complete kit these days?

3. Sat in an MKIV today at a local classics dealer. I'm 5'11"...about 190lbs and it fit like a glove. Felt great. Would have liked to have maybe a little more room in the foot area, so it got me thinking that perhaps a 3 speed automatic would be the way to go to free up one pedal? Manuals suck in traffic and my wife can't drive one, so thought this may be the way to go? In some of the Cobra's I've seen that have automatics, the stick is gigantic. Why is this?

I'm sure that I'll have more questions. I've built an engine or three as well as rebuilt manual transmissions, so am pretty handy with the wrench. Might even give a shot at some body work as that is new to me, but we'll see...Thanks!

[Itchief]

Congratulations

I went with the complete kit so that I could use new parts, open the box and bolt them on.

I think that choice all depends upon your budget and how much time and effort you want to spend getting and preparing donor parts

Rick

[edwardb]

1. Fewer and fewer donor builds these days based on the ever dwindling supply of suitable donors, plus build plans that often are outside what's available with a donor, e.g. new IRS, brakes, engine choice, etc. Sounds like you may be in that category if you want to go with a 351 based build, just for starters.

2. Simple call to Factory Five can give you the leadtime. Probably in the 6-8 week range, but that's nothing more than an educated guess. They seem to be pretty busy these days.

3. Some guys are doing automatic builds, but I haven't been one of them. So can't give too much advice. The ones I've seen are overdrive types. Not a 3-speed like you mention. I would caution you about drawing conclusions about the footbox space in the one Mk4 you've seen though. There can be lots of variations in these builds. What you saw may or may not be indicative of what is available now and what you can build. With the power to weight ratio these have, they are easy to drive with a manual trans IMO.

[Papa]

I bought a complete kit and feel that was a good decision based on my skill level (novice). It's nice to know that everything you need aside from the drive train, wheels and tires, and a battery are in all those boxes sitting in my shop. As I progressed through my build, I made choices to go with parts from some of the vendors supporting this forum. The modifications I've made are minimal compared to some, and I've used ~95% of the kit parts through the stage my build is currently in. I also continued along this thought process when I ordered my kit and ordered my rear end, tires and wheels, and many other options directly from Factory Five. I ordered my engine and transmission from BluePrint as I wanted "plug-and-play" to the full extent possible. There is something to be said about spending a weekend in the shop and not scraping grease from under my fingernails the rest of the week. New parts are so much easier to work with in my opinion and the finished product looks "new" for my limited skills. There are certainly guys out there than can make donor parts look new, but I'm not one of them.

[Jazzman]

Somehow posting an opinion on this subject after EdwardB and Papa seems a bit superfluous. I will just echo what they said. Complete kit gives you all the parts, all are new, clean, and you know all the history. Fewer surprises, fewer missing parts and delays to run to the store, smoother build.

Two suggestions on leg room. 1) look into the modifications that have been done by forum members on the inside DS footbox wall to straighten out this wall and slightly widen the space. I wish I had done this one. 2) If you still need more leg room and do not want to go the high back racing buckets as some have, PM me about having your seats rebuilt buy an upholster I know. It will add a LOT of extra leg room, more than I could imagine. If you are thinking about this route, don't waste the money on the leather seats. The covers will be thrown out anyway. (Ask me how I know! )

I will watch with interest your decision and subsequent build thread (you ARE doing one, right?!!) regarding the installation of an automatic. I am considering it myself. Go ahead . . . make the call . . . you know you want to!!!

[cv2065]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Your build threads are extremely helpful in understanding the process and some necessary mods along the way. When I get to that point, I will certainly return the favor for others to read.

[Clover]

I recently ordered a kit and went with a complete kit. I hate rusted out bolts that I end up stripping taking out, so I just wanted to start with new, clean parts. Plus, it if ever sale it, the donor kits always seems to sale for less to me, so I am not sure how much cost savings there ends up being in the long run. Just my observation, I don't have any data to back that up.

Carbs are cool and I wish I had more carb adjustment skills. You can put a carb on pretty much anything though. I even saw a video on YouTube recently of a 600+ HP built Coyote with a carb. I live up in Colorado and love to drive up into the mountains, so carbs are not the best fit for my needs. I will say that if you want to go with a 351, there are some 8 stack injection systems that are pretty cool. If money was not an object, I would have a 351 bored and stocked to 427 with an 8 stack setup.

What engine was in the roadster that you test drove? Some of the engines require shrinking the foot box some I believe. It could be that you test drove a car with a modified foot box. Having said that, there is not a ton of room in these things and some people drive theirs with specific shoes to give them more room between the peddles. What size shoe do you strap on? I will also add that a hydraulic throughout bearings or some newer clutches makes manuals easier to deal with in traffic nowadays. The automatic may be a great solution for your family too if your wife plans to ever drive it. You may want to consider if she ever will knowing it is loud and intimidating. I happen to know my wife will never drive the car, even if I make it an automatic. It is just not her cup of tea and she would be terrified of damaging something. Hech, my modified 2011 BMW 135i intimidates her but I don't think my wife is alone in this. I would guess that most significant others never drive the these.

[edwardb]

I recently ordered a kit and went with a complete kit. I hate rusted out bolts that I end up stripping taking out, so I just wanted to start with new, clean parts. Plus, it if ever sale it, the donor kits always seems to sale for less to me, so I am not sure how much cost savings there ends up being in the long run. Just my observation, I don't have any data to back that up.

Carbs are cool and I wish I had more carb adjustment skills. You can put a carb on pretty much anything though. I even saw a video on YouTube recently of a 600+ HP built Coyote with a carb. I live up in Colorado and love to drive up into the mountains, so carbs are not the best fit for my needs. I will say that if you want to go with a 351, there are some 8 stack injection systems that are pretty cool. If money was not an object, I would have a 351 bored and stocked to 427 with an 8 stack setup.

What engine was in the roadster that you test drove? Some of the engines require shrinking the foot box some I believe. It could be that you test drove a car with a modified foot box. Having said that, there is not a ton of room in these things and some people drive theirs with specific shoes to give them more room between the peddles. What size shoe do you strap on? I will also add that a hydraulic throughout bearings or some newer clutches makes manuals easier to deal with in traffic nowadays. The automatic may be a great solution for your family too if your wife plans to ever drive it. You may want to consider if she ever will knowing it is loud and intimidating. I happen to know my wife will never drive the car, even if I make it an automatic. It is just not her cup of tea and she would be terrified of damaging something. Hech, my modified 2011 BMW 135i intimidates her but I don't think my wife is alone in this. I would guess that most significant others never drive the these.

Great comments. Couple things to add. Many assume the base kit is only for a donor build. Used to be the case I guess but doesn't have to be that way. Lots of builds use the base kit but aren't donor builds. Just means you do your own part selection and buying. There have been lots of threads about whether it's any cheaper. General consensus is probably not for a number of reasons. But it is one of the choices. Two of my four builds have been base kits. I haven't harvested donor parts yet and don't plan to. As a buddy of mine said when he was helping me on a build a couple years ago -- love working on your builds because my hands don't even get dirty. I wouldn't say that's always the case. But certainly no rust or whatever to deal with. My one and only restoration attempt (a VW) from a number of years ago was a rust bucket. Finished every build session by sweeping the floor with what had fallen off that night. Wasn't fun at all and don't plan on anything like that again.

Carb on a Coyote... Sacrilegious.

As to significant other driving it, your comments pretty much fit my situation. My wife's word is "never." Don't see much wiggle room there. She can drive manual. We've had several in our time, and she drove them regularly. But she says she has zero desire to drive my builds and (somehow...) is afraid of my reaction should something get damaged. I don't know why she would think that. But she cruises with me all the time. I like to drive, she likes to ride. A perfect combination.

[jcrumpley]

I went with the base kit with IRS. I then sourced my rear center section and other parts new to my liking, eg. the brakes on mine are stock 2015 GT rear brakes with 13 inch rotor and 13 inch SN95 cobra brakes up front. I used a wilwood pedal box so that I could easily have a hydraulic clutch. My build is still a no donor build with new and/or rebuilt parts if you count the engine as not new. I probably didn't save any money doing it this way, but my initial cost to factory five was less. This also allowed me to pick parts from other vendors without having to have the factory five parts and having no use for them. Of course my build is really sacrilegious around here as I'm running a GM LS engine.

[cv2065]

Good points everyone. I'm going to venture to say that my wife will probably never drive it, although she acts like she will. Either way, I think she would be too scared and live as a passenger only. So maybe that solves that issue.

You guys got me thinking on the base vs. complete kit. I selected the base kit on the website and picked roughly the same upgrades as I did on the complete kit. I'm getting $21,600 on the base kit and almost $27K on the complete kit side. I only see engine mounts and driveshaft as outliers. What am I missing here that would make up the difference that's not on the selection page for the base kit?

[JoeAIII]

Radiator, fuel tank, etc. There are many donor parts that do not have new counterparts on the build page.

My reason for buying a base kit was because it allowed me to bit off the expense in smaller chunks. I know it will cost more in the end but it will get done, where I may have never put together the cash all at once...

[cv2065]

Radiator, fuel tank, etc. There are many donor parts that do not have new counterparts on the build page.

My reason for buying a base kit was because it allowed me to bit off the expense in smaller chunks. I know it will cost more in the end but it will get done, where I may have never put together the cash all at once...

Thanks bud. I thought those would apply to the complete kit as well as 'incidentals'. Is there a list of these items that are included in the complete kit that you don't see on the ordering page. List would have to be pretty extensive to soak up $5K or so...

[videodude]

FWIW, my build plan is to do a base kit, but all I'm using from my "donor" is the engine, trans, and rear end. I'm not using the spindles or front brakes or lower control arms, may or may not use the radiator, may or may not use the fuel tank, and everybody has to come up with a rear end anyway so why not use the one I have and merely switch axles and brakes to 5-lug with disks? So, what do you call a non-donor build when you use a "used" engine, transmission, and rear end? Is it a donor or a "new" build? It's a rhetorical question: my "donor" build really isn't going to have much "donor" in it, but it's going to save me some money. Yeah, there's a little to clean but what's a little dirt?

BTW, a 302 (or similar SBF 5.0 derivative, i.e. 347 stroker) is narrower than a 351, allowing larger footboxes. 4.6/5.4's are wider, and Coyote's are wider still. I'd love a Coyote, but my feets is too big, it'd never work. Since all I want is a cruiser, the mostly stock 5.0 is just fine for me, I don't need to prove anything at the stoplight anymore, and I'm certainly NOT going to build a track car. Not my thing. An automatic is much wider than a T5 or a Tremec, and needs some mods to fit the transmission tunnel. Lastly, a carbed engine will smell like a carbed engine. Stinky. Many spouses get turned off by the gas smell. The EFI equipped engines run much cleaner and don't smell as bad. Points to ponder . . .

Video

[edwardb]

Thanks bud. I thought those would apply to the complete kit as well as 'incidentals'. Is there a list of these items that are included in the complete kit that you don't see on the ordering page. List would have to be pretty extensive to soak up $5K or so...

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/base-kit/

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/base-kit/

In addition to all the details, compare the "What You Need" lists from these two links. That summarizes the major differences.

[cv2065]

Thanks. Is the frame on the base kit the same as on the complete kit, or are there differences to accommodate the donor?

[edwardb]

Thanks. Is the frame on the base kit the same as on the complete kit, or are there differences to accommodate the donor?

All the parts, including the frame, that are common between the base and complete kit are the same.

[Papa]

If you closely follow the "For Sale" forum, you can usually find some pretty good deals on brand-new kit parts that guys didn't use. I've seen roll bars, brakes, wheels, suspension parts, and a lot of other odds and ends.

[CraigS]

Stay w/ you 351 idea. It is a little wider but that width is all at the top. So making room for big feet isn't really effected. Yes it's a little more difficult to change the driver side rear 2 plugs but how often do you do that? A bone stock 351 short block has much stronger internal parts than a 302 so you can use them all, rods, crank, main bearing caps, head bolts are all one size up from stock 302 parts. It is very easy to get 400+ hp in a mildly built 351.

[Chris @ Forma]

We just ordered our fifth kit and with our experience, we have discovered a lot of things that we didn't want. FFR was very accommodating in taking things out of our complete kit that we didn't want, because quite frankly we prefer to do things a bit differently. We omitted the following:
gauges--we prefer different gauges
drive shaft--we use coyote, Mustang 6 speed (2015 MT-82)trans, Mustang 2015 IRS -FFR doesn't have a drive shaft for this combination so why buy it
Wiring harness--we build our own
Carpet---Seen FFR carpet? Questions?
Brake lines and hardware--we prefer continuous lines and no splices
Fuel Lines--same as above
Coolant hoses--we despise their corrugated coolant lines

Not a huge savings but took out nearly $1k worth of stuff that we would have thrown away. I don't know if FFR racing did this as a special for us or if they will do it for anyone. Wouldn't hurt to ask. This, of course assumes you know what you don't want which is difficult for a first time builder.

BTW we have done both donor builds and new part builds. Depending on how OCD you are, the time and cost of making the donor parts pristine in many cases cost as much as new parts. For example on an 818 build that we did relatively recently, The only donor parts we ended up using were Engine, tranny, spindles, and steering column, door latches, radiator fans and hood hinges. Pretty much everything else, we started using the donor parts, weren't happy with the results and ended up buying new/re manufactured parts.

Chris

[cv2065]

Depending on how OCD you are, the time and cost of making the donor parts pristine in many cases cost as much as new parts. For example on an 818 build that we did relatively recently, The only donor parts we ended up using were Engine, tranny, spindles, and steering column, door latches, radiator fans and hood hinges. Pretty much everything else, we started using the donor parts, weren't happy with the results and ended up buying new/re manufactured parts.

I am OCD when it comes to rehabbing parts and putting them back in, so you make a good point Chris. I have a chemical parts washer and a few other tools to help clean parts, but I think it would add too much time to the build and would probably end up replacing half of it anyway.

[cv2065]

t is very easy to get 400+ hp in a mildly built 351.

Exactly what I was thinking...

[wineguy]

We just ordered our fifth kit and with our experience, we have discovered a lot of things that we didn't want. FFR was very accommodating in taking things out of our complete kit that we didn't want, because quite frankly we prefer to do things a bit differently. We omitted the following:
gauges--we prefer different gauges
drive shaft--we use coyote, Mustang 6 speed (2015 MT-82)trans, Mustang 2015 IRS -FFR doesn't have a drive shaft for this combination so why buy it
Wiring harness--we build our own
Carpet---Seen FFR carpet? Questions?
Brake lines and hardware--we prefer continuous lines and no splices
Fuel Lines--same as above
Coolant hoses--we despise their corrugated coolant lines

Not a huge savings but took out nearly $1k worth of stuff that we would have thrown away. I don't know if FFR racing did this as a special for us or if they will do it for anyone. Wouldn't hurt to ask. This, of course assumes you know what you don't want which is difficult for a first time builder.

BTW we have done both donor builds and new part builds. Depending on how OCD you are, the time and cost of making the donor parts pristine in many cases cost as much as new parts. For example on an 818 build that we did relatively recently, The only donor parts we ended up using were Engine, tranny, spindles, and steering column, door latches, radiator fans and hood hinges. Pretty much everything else, we started using the donor parts, weren't happy with the results and ended up buying new/re manufactured parts.

Chris

Chris - what’s up with FFR carpet? Do others swap this out?

[CraigS]

I am OCD when it comes to rehabbing parts and putting them back in, so you make a good point Chris. I have a chemical parts washer and a few other tools to help clean parts, but I think it would add too much time to the build and would probably end up replacing half of it anyway.

I am not saying you shouldn't use any donor parts but be pretty careful what you choose. At this point the cars that would supply parts are getting really old. Also some of the FFR parts are a newer design. Example; 94-95 spindles used to be the hot setup IF you also buy the SAI mod kit to install w/ them. But they are 23 yr old pieces and the SAI mod may not be available any more. SO that makes the FFR spindles much more attractive because you get the latest front suspension design along w/ new parts. One area where donors parts are great is the 2015 IRS. If you get the rear suspension from a salvage yard, be sure to get the brakes because they work just fine in combination w/ the PBR fronts

[cv2065]

One area where donors parts are great is the 2015 IRS. If you get the rear suspension from a salvage yard, be sure to get the brakes because they work just fine in combination w/ the PBR fronts

Thanks for this. I see lots of used 2015 Mustang IRS setups on ebay. Anything to look for specifically or are they all somewhat equal from a component perspective? Looks like one can save quite a bit over the $2100 kit cost for IRS rear and brakes.

[edwardb]

Thanks for this. I see lots of used 2015 Mustang IRS setups on ebay. Anything to look for specifically or are they all somewhat equal from a component perspective? Looks like one can save quite a bit over the $2100 kit cost for IRS rear and brakes.

There are quite a few differences and not all created equal. Very simply, manual shift Mustangs had an iron case diff. Automatics an aluminum case. Diff ratios include 3.15, 3.31, 3.55, and 3.73. 3.15's are different than all the others and won't accept a ratio change. All the rest of them can. 3.73's are also unique because they use a Torsen set-up for limited slip versus the usual clutch type Ford Trac-Lok. Those bring a premium. Up to twice as much. There are also differences in the brakes depending on what they come off of. This document shows the variations. From 2015 but I believe is still the same for the newest models. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...tang_Specs.pdf.

First priority IMO is to decide which ratio you want. 3.55 is the most common and I believe what Factory Five provides. But depending on your trans, engine, etc. you may decide something different is better. In the salvage market, you'll find the 3.15 non-changeable the cheapest and the 3.73 Torsen the most expensive.

[cv2065]

There are quite a few differences and not all created equal. Very simply, manual shift Mustangs had an iron case diff. Automatics an aluminum case. Diff ratios include 3.15, 3.31, 3.55, and 3.73. 3.15's are different than all the others and won't accept a ratio change. All the rest of them can. 3.73's are also unique because they use a Torsen set-up for limited slip versus the usual clutch type Ford Trac-Lok. Those bring a premium. Up to twice as much. There are also differences in the brakes depending on what they come off of. This document shows the variations. From 2015 but I believe is still the same for the newest models. https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...tang_Specs.pdf.

First priority IMO is to decide which ratio you want. 3.55 is the most common and I believe what Factory Five provides. But depending on your trans, engine, etc. you may decide something different is better. In the salvage market, you'll find the 3.15 non-changeable the cheapest and the 3.73 Torsen the most expensive.

Thanks. That helps out a lot. I'm thinking of 3.55 or 3.73....Most likely 3.73 if I can find a good deal.

[rich grsc]

Thanks. That helps out a lot. I'm thinking of 3.55 or 3.73....Most likely 3.73 if I can find a good deal.

I would advise against the 3:73 is such a light car, especially if you go 351 route.

[cv2065]

I would advise against the 3:73 is such a light car, especially if you go 351 route.

Thanks for the advice. Didn't think about the weight factor.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Thanks for the advice. Didn't think about the weight factor.

Watch this vid about 15 minutes in. There is a drag race between an original 427 & the FFR demo car that Dave Smith drives. He is half way down the track & the tires are still slipping. They are very traction limited & more gear multiplication with a stiffer read is not useful.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...-five-roadster

Except for the brakes mine is pretty much a clone of Dave's car. I run NITTO 555R drag radials & can still spin them with a heavy foot.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Before selecting a rear end ratio factor in the transmission. A trans with 3.27 first gear ratio will be much different than one with a 2.87 by the time you compute the overall ratio with different rear ends. Same comes into play with fifth gear and what the overall ratio winds up being.

Jeff

[cv2065]

Watch this vid about 15 minutes in. There is a drag race between an original 427 & the FFR demo car that Dave Smith drives. He is half way down the track & the tires are still slipping. They are very traction limited & more gear multiplication with a stiffer read is not useful.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...-five-roadster

Except for the brakes mine is pretty much a clone of Dave's car. I run NITTO 555R drag radials & can still spin them with a heavy foot.

Thanks. Great video. What diff ratio are you running? I don't think they mentioned that in the video

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Thanks. Great video. What diff ratio are you running? I don't think they mentioned that in the video

The 3:55 ratio. Its a 3 link LSD rear with the Vintage banana brace & Spohn heim joint adjustable lower rods. Engine is tuned to take some torque out of the bottom end. With the 315X35X17" drag radials the car is very easy to launch as long as you apply neck muscles first.

Only change I would make is the OD ratio in the TKO-600. There are two ratios available & the other ratio, can't remember the number, would have given me a lower RPM at cruise. The rest of the transmission gear ratios are the same.

[cv2065]

Before selecting a rear end ratio factor in the transmission. A trans with 3.27 first gear ratio will be much different than one with a 2.87 by the time you compute the overall ratio with different rear ends. Same comes into play with fifth gear and what the overall ratio winds up being.

Jeff

I would like a longer first gear, as my Camaro had 4.11 gears and a 4 speed, which left very little in the 1st gear department. As Kevin has, perhaps running a TKO 600 with 3.55 gears would be the best setup. With the .64OD, I would be at roughly 2300 RPM in 5th gear at 78mph and at 26mph coming out of first at 3500, which gives the best of both worlds. The 3.73 doesn't look too much different in first gear, but the difference is quite large at highway speeds.

[CraigS]

I have a mild 408, a TKO 500 which has the standard T5 gear ratios, and a 315 diff. I had a 331 in my solid axle w/ the 351 and then for the 1st year w/ the 408. It was fine. Then I did the IRS retrofit and ended up w/ the 315. It is fine also. Makes a real nice combination, 1st is tall enough, and 5th is 2100 = 75 mph. I am currently on the lookout for an iron case IRS diff as mine is al and I don't like the sound of driveline slop. I will go 331 if I happen to find it first, but honestly, I'd prefer another 315. When you can spin up the rear tires in 2nd just because you mashed it at 2500, there isn't much point in more rear gear.

[edwardb]

Chris - what’s up with FFR carpet? Do others swap this out?

Another subject with lots of opinions. The characterization is a little harsh IMO. I don't have any hard data. But yes some do use different carpet. Whether because they want something beside black or maybe higher quality. But most I suspect use it. Many recommend and use Bentley auto carpet from Miami Corp. Supposedly is a big upgrade. I bought some for my #7750 build and thought it as OK but not enough different or better than the FFR carpet. Ended up using it in the trunks of two builds. I've had zero issues with the FFR carpet in several builds, including my first one that has been driven for a number of seasons now. Still looks fine. Suggestions: Binding exposed edges improves the look a bunch. That's true of any carpet. Use floor mats (the FFR floor mats are excellent quality) and a wear pad on the side of the tunnel by the accelerator. That protects the highest wear areas. Also installing it neatly and cleanly is important. Again true of any carpet.

[Chris @ Forma]

The FFR carpet is very thin. We build moderate to high end interiors and believe that the materials should reflect the aesthetic quality that we are trying to achieve. One advantage to using the FFR carpet is that it comes pre-cut. We change the interior enough that the pre-cut pieces don even work as patterns. We buy a lot of our materials from Albright's upholstery supply or Miami corporation.

Chris

[Big Blocker]

Like Videodude's build plan in post #13, my MKII was a "hybrid" of sorts - donor engine, trans and rear end. Everything else is new and upgraded from what would be a donor build.
We selected a low mileage late model engine (302/5.0) and pulled it completely apart to see what there was to see. We replaced all bearings, seals and gaskets. Replaced the oil pump and port matched the cast iron heads to match my upgraded GT-40 manifold.
The T-5 was completely torn down and rebuilt with new synchro blocker rings, seals, swapped out the trans speedo gear to match what we settled on for the rear end when we rebuilt it (3.73's).
All suspension, brake, steering, electrical and cooling systems were done with all new upgraded parts: Flaming River steering rack w/ Breeze off-set bushings. Brakes are "Cobra" (PBR) over-sized front and rear (no power assist needed). Modified Painless wiring harness with added circuits for "creature comfort" add-ons. MKIV seats make the comfort level premium. And lastly, an aluminum radiator designed for 450HP, just in case I ever get to adding the twin turbos . . .


Buying a basic kit won't really save you any money but will give you some choices as you assemble the needed parts to complete your project.

Doc

[Swift901]

This is my first build that I started late last fall. I squeezed a coyote with a tko600 into her. And yes, there is not a lot of room left. Good news is it has easy power. Bad news is the added costs. Computer, PS pump, etc. What i didnt realize is if you use their Power steering pump you must remove the AC compressor. Here in Florida thats not really an option. If i was to do it again i would stay with the complete kit but limit the options. 2015 IRS comes with too large of a rear brake. This limits wheel selection. Im retired up in Jacksonville if you need to chat just let me know. You're welcom to take a peek. I wished id have looked at more details at the open house last summer. It was overwhelming with all the cool cars.
Tim

[edwardb]

This is my first build that I started late last fall. I squeezed a coyote with a tko600 into her. And yes, there is not a lot of room left. Good news is it has easy power. Bad news is the added costs. Computer, PS pump, etc. What i didnt realize is if you use their Power steering pump you must remove the AC compressor. Here in Florida thats not really an option. If i was to do it again i would stay with the complete kit but limit the options. 2015 IRS comes with too large of a rear brake. This limits wheel selection. Im retired up in Jacksonville if you need to chat just let me know. You're welcom to take a peek. I wished id have looked at more details at the open house last summer. It was overwhelming with all the cool cars.
Tim

Many have found, including me, that the Coyote crate motor setup is a good value if you compare HP/torque/EFI/warranty apples to apples with other ready to run options, e.g. SBF, etc. There are cheaper options to be sure, but if compared equally across the board it's a good value. Too bad you didn't know up front about everything required. You still made a great choice IMO. They're awesome in these cars.

Regarding PS and A/C -- they definitely can coexist. The KRC Coyote PS option that Factory Five sells now (and you can buy elsewhere if you like, it's a standard setup) fits in the RH middle front and the A/C pump in the factory location at the bottom. The previous setup with the mod motor PS pump and adapter did occupy the same real estate as the A/C pump. Maybe that's what you have. Ford doesn't have a factory engine driven PS setup for the Coyote. Mustangs and F-150's both use an EHPS setup. So any engine driven PS for the Coyote will be an aftermarket setup. A/C pump on the other hand does have a factory location and unless you go to a full aftermarket front drive setup, is the only option.

[Chris @ Forma]

We have built two coyote's w/PS and A/C and are about to start our third. Biggest challenge with AC is packaging an air handler. Not a lot of room anywhere. We ended up putting the unit in the trunk. The first Mark IV that we built, we used a Vintage air unit and on the second we are probably going to use a Resto-Mod Air unit. Both have substantial challenges in getting the air forward. We are planning on starting a Build thread for our latest build, as it is going to proceed very quickly. Our Kit is not due to be available for pick up until 4-21 and we are scheduled to have it delivered by 6-23.

Chris