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Thread: Engine porn - 1966 Ranchero getting a new drivetrain

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Red face Engine porn - 1966 Ranchero getting a new drivetrain

    My daughter has finally agreed that it's time to replace the 200 cu. in. I-6 and 3-speed manual in her 1966 Ranchero - her daily driver. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...3-Garage-Buddy

    The goals for the engine/transmission swap are reliability and budget. A bone-stock 302 (~200 hp?) would be perfect, and we could make it look like a 289 that was an optional engine on the '66 Ranchero (she wants to retain a period-correct look). Also, I'm thinking about using a throttle body EFI system like FiTech to get a little better driveability vs. a carb.

    Here's where I need help from the Braintrust that exists on this forum:
    What years 302 are preferred for longevity, affordability, and what will work with a throttle body EFI system?
    Are there differences in the various years of 302s?
    Are roller lifters an option? If so, what years?

    What manual transmissions (4 speed or 5 speed) will fit in a 1966 Ranchero/Falcon tunnel and mate up to a 302?
    Are there differences in the bolt patterns for bell housings?

    Thanks in advance for your help and advice!

    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 05-22-2018 at 08:09 PM.
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    Hi David,
    5.0 Cords were roller lifters from 94 and up if I recall correctly. You can retro fit older 302 and 289s with roller lifters as well, and roller rockers.
    Bellhousing were all 6 bolt patterns after 1965. There were early 28 oz dampers and later 48 oz dampers. There were also 157 tooth flywheel and 164 tooth flywheel.
    I would strongly suggest a gear reduction starter from Powermaster, they draw much less amperage.
    Summit has a few very good books on small block Cords, one about parts interchangability and one on power tuning and engines.

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    Cords was supposed to be Ford's, pesky auto spell coorect.

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    I have looked into a 302/T5 in a 64-65 ranchero and your 66 may be different due to the increased wheelbase.

    In a 64-65, there is a floor support on the bottom side of the driveshaft tunnel that is right on top of the rear shifter location of a T5. 2 solutions are to modify the floor support or to move the shifter to a mid shift location. The mid shift location is probably the better (and more expensive) option, since it will avoid cutting the floor support and also move the shift lever forward, away from the bench seat.

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    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    You can't beat the reliability of the later 302 (5.0) engine over the earlier version. Higher torque and roller cams allow these engines to run at a lower rpm, hence less engine wear and tear. Topped with modern EFI and you have a "plug-n-play" installation.
    Earlier 302's were not roller blocks but can be retrofit with them if desired. Just my 2¢, but why go the route of retrofit when 5.0's are readily available for cheap - even in "crate motor" versions.
    Earlier rotating assemblies were 28 Oz balanced both in the flywheel and the front damper. Later 5.0's are 50 Oz balanced and parts are not interchangeable from 28 to 50. Again my 2¢, stay with the later.
    Just about everything else is swappable, heads, manifolds, all exterior parts like fuel pump, timing cover, oil pans, bell housing (depends on your transmission choice). Your starter must be matched to your flywheel tooth count.
    There are writeups about retrofitting a later EFI powered 5.0 into a Mustang/Cougar so your Fairlane Ranchero isn't [really] any different. A few minor adjustments to the trans mount might be required.

    FWIW, I retrofit a EFI 5.0 w/ an AOD into a '68 Mustang . . . dropped right in with only that mentioned trans mount issue due to the AOD being a bit longer and wider.

    This project you are thinking about ought to be an easy one and you'll be very happy with the results when completed.
    With the right parts choices, you might not even need a driveshaft made up, the stock one will fit . . .

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 03-27-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks for the great information, guys!

    David
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    Richard Oben's Avatar
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    Find wrecked, 5.0 mustang or Lincoln (5 speed vs auto), from the late 80s early 90s, heck an F150 would work. Roller blocks started in 1985, I'm pretty sure. If they are wrecked, they are dirt cheap. If it runs keep as much stuff as you can, if not make sure any mods can still work with the AOD or T5. Note Derald Rice on this, it could be more difficult to go T5. The concept was great for FFR for a lot of years. I have used the idea in other projects as well. Richard.
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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Great info, thanks.

    Doc,
    Where did you get the shifter & cable for your mod to the '68 Mustang? Did you do a console-mounted shifter or column-mounted?

    David
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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Smile More questions - looking for details now

    Thanks again for the advice; it's helped my make choices and narrow down the search.

    I've decided to get a "newer" (94-96) 302/5.0L re-manufactured long block (stock cam profile, stock heads) to take advantage of the various improvements made through the years. When it's all done, the engine will have the FiTech throttle body fuel injection system, and I'll be using a T-5 transmission.

    Today's questions:
    1) What distributor. coil and ignition system do you recommend? Remember, I'm looking for durability, reliability, driveability, and don't need a "performance" ignition system for this stock engine. I don't want to go back to the dark ages and deal with a points/condenser system. Is the Duraspark II (or equivalent) the right answer?

    2) I'll have an alternator and aftermarket a/c compressor; no power steering pump or smog pump. I haven't decided on V belts or a serpentine belt, but I'm leaning on V belts to stay with a more period correct look. Do I get the regular replacement water pump for this year (94-96) engine (I don't know if it's normal rotation or reverse rotation)?


    **edit** Been doing more research and it looks like I need a front sump oil pan to clear the frame crossmembers, so I'll need to use an older year's timing cover that has the dip stick in the cover. Therefore, I'll need the older year's water pump, so question #2 is moot! I'd still like advice/opinions on distributor/ignition systems.

    Thanks!

    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 04-08-2018 at 05:51 PM.
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    Senior Member HCP 65 COUPE's Avatar
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    A Mallory unilite type distributor is going to be a great bet to make the car look stock and give you a simple install you can also use a stock mid 60s vaccum advance distributor and change the gear and install a point eliminator kit. As far as water pump that is going to depend on the timing cover thats currently on the engine if it is from a 94-96 engine its reverse rotation but will require a reverse rotation serpentine accessory drive setup, to remain period correct and to save overall cost and compatibility with power steering I would suggest a standard rotation water pump and timing cover and old school alternator mounting. Also make sure the distributor has the correct drive gear for the roller cam shaft. Stock steel Roller cams require bronze drive gears not iron. Im not sure but I think you can use any 302 oil pan with any timing cover. And yes an oil pan/pickup tube swap would be required
    Last edited by HCP 65 COUPE; 04-08-2018 at 06:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    David,

    Since an original (optional '66) engine was a 289 with a front sump oil pan, You would be better off sticking with that arrangement. A rear sump pan may not clear your lower frame parts or steering system. Getting a front sump pan will require a different oil pump pickup. Front timing covers are pretty much interchangeable between early 289's and later 5.0's (302's). Original 289's were standard rotation (CCW from the drivers seat), later model 5.0's were "reverse rotation" (CW from the drivers seat). Also, later model timing covers don't have provisions for an oil dip stick as 5.0" were on the drivers side of the block.
    You can mount a "standard" rotation pump on the later serpentine front cover but you'll have to find pulleys for the water pump and the crank (both serpentine), which will have four holes instead of the earlier 3 hole 289 style (V-belt). They're are universals around with both hole configs.

    As for the dizzy, whatever you decide on, you ABSOLUTELY need to verify that the dizzy gear is steel if you stick with the steel "roller cam" that comes with the later 5.0 engines. IF you swap out to some other cam configuration, run the bronze gear for compatibility. DO NOT RUN A STEEL GEAR on anything but a steel cam. Earlier Durasparks are good but mount the control module as far away as possible from any heat source. It will come with an iron gear.

    Doc
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    I converted a 5.0 to carb a year ago and best option I could find for distributor is the pertronix, I’ve read a couple neg on them but mostly positive. Note I had a lot of confusion about what gear it came with, some sources said it was iron, some said steel. I called and emailed pertronix and the confirmed 100 percent it is steel.

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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    HCP, Doc, and Murd,

    Thanks for the information. This is helping me get clarity on the parts I need to get. I'll be using an older style timing cover with the dipstick to go with the front sump pan. I'll get the correct water pump for that timing cover.

    The advice on distributors is very helpful, and the reminder to get the right gear material is great!

    I'm thankful for this forum and the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys have.

    David
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Got another question:
    Do folks really lift the engine with a lift plate bolted to the intake manifold? Is that ok with aftermarket intake (aluminum?) manifolds also?
    I lifted the roadster Modular engine with lift plates bolted to the heads, so lifting by the intake manifold is different for me.

    David
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    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    I don't know why, but a lift plate on the intake (iron or aluminum) has always given me the willies.
    I've helped several do it, and heard of 10x that swear by it, but it still clenches me up... especially with an aluminum intake. (I guess you'd better be damn sure that the studs/bolts are fully engaged as deep as they'll go, and there's no lateral torque on it - all that weight concentrated on 6-sq. inches.)
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

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  16. #16
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
    I don't know why, but a lift plate on the intake (iron or aluminum) has always given me the willies.
    I've helped several do it, and heard of 10x that swear by it, but it still clenches me up... especially with an aluminum intake. (I guess you'd better be damn sure that the studs/bolts are fully engaged as deep as they'll go, and there's no lateral torque on it - all that weight concentrated on 6-sq. inches.)
    I agree. I received my aluminum intake manifold today. I don't feel comfortable lifting the entire engine with bolts going into those 4 small carb stud holes.

    David
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    Senior Member Fixit's Avatar
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    Here's proof... a new bullet for another buddy's '71 Chevelle...

    CarbPlate.jpg
    John D. - Minneapolis 'Burbs

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    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    David,

    Sorry I missed post #8 . . . I used a factory Mustang floor shifter, just modified the shift pawl ramp to accept the different pattern of the later AOD (3 position). I fabbed up a shift indicator that matched my [modified] AOD shift pattern (1st, 2nd & 3rd/4th - factory is 1st, 2nd/3rd & 4th). That pattern worked better for me, a guy who likes to shift gears . . .

    The cable for the Throttle Pressure modulator was factory FORD since everything from the water pump to tranny tail shaft was factory. The EFI throttle body linkage was already built for it with no adjustments needed. When I later changed to a [700cfm] carb, I got a "Lokar" cable for AOD to Carb - took a long time to get the pressures correct.

    Hope that helps out.

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 04-13-2018 at 11:54 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Question Carb spacer needed??

    Another question for you guys:
    I'm getting the FiTech throttle body fuel injection system to go on the four barrel, dual plane intake manifold (aluminum). Do I need a carb spacer with this combination?

    Thanks in advance for the advice!
    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 04-14-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Does this look right??

    I'm doing fit-checks on the engine parts before I "officially" put it all together. I put the harmonic balancer on and it looks like it's sticking out too far. It is fully on the crank, up against the timing chain gear. But it looks like there's 1/4" - 3/8" of the balancer's shaft sticking out of the timing cover seal. The long block and balancer are for 94-96 Bronco/F-150 -250/E-150 -250. The timing cover is for 65-76 Ford (Falcon, Ranchero, etc.) to go with the front sump oil pan.

    Is this gap OK?








    Also, what is the smaller hose barb for on this thermostat housing (on the right side of the housing in the pic)?



    My water pump has two small hose attachments for the heater hoses, so I'm wondering what this is on the T-housing.


    Thanks in advance for your help!

    David
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    I'd head here: http://www.moderndriveline.com/catal..._Solutions.htm and ask Bruce.

    Ray
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    The barb on your t stat is for the bypass. It hooks to one of the returns on your water pump with a short 90deg hose. the other on your waterpump is the return from the heater.
    Stupid question but is the bolt torqued onto the crank for the balancer? If not it pulls it in quite a bit. Also make sure it is actually at TDC when indicated, I have a similar balancer but my pointer is on the other side. Never looked into it but assuming they make balancers marked differently depending on where your pointer is.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Just a thought but my guess is that the timing pointer is for an engine PRE-5.0 and is the only thing you will have to source out to be correct. What year timing gears are you running early (60's - 70's) or later 5.0?

    Since you are mix-n-matching parts, your pointer may be 90° out of wack - some 5.0's had the pointer on the drivers side of the engine depending on serpentine belts or not. Early SBF's had it on the drivers side. The difference is exactly 90°. Verify TDC at the #1 piston and see where your damper marks are in relations to that.

    The "barb" is for your By-Pass hose from water pump to T-Stat housing - allows water to flow during cold starts.

    HTH

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 05-10-2018 at 10:46 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobradavid View Post
    I'm doing fit-checks on the engine parts before I "officially" put it all together. I put the harmonic balancer on and it looks like it's sticking out too far. It is fully on the crank, up against the timing chain gear. But it looks like there's 1/4" - 3/8" of the balancer's shaft sticking out of the timing cover seal. The long block and balancer are for 94-96 Bronco/F-150 -250/E-150 -250. The timing cover is for 65-76 Ford (Falcon, Ranchero, etc.) to go with the front sump oil pan.

    Is this gap OK?

    Also, what is the smaller hose barb for on this thermostat housing (on the right side of the housing in the pic)?


    My water pump has two small hose attachments for the heater hoses, so I'm wondering what this is on the T-housing.


    Thanks in advance for your help!

    David
    David, I sure wish I had happened upon this thread before now. I have a 1962 Ranchero with a 1990 302 with EFI transplanted in it. The gap you are experiencing is because of the old style timing cover. Valuable information that could have helped is that EVERY timing chain cover since ford switched to the rear sump pan/dipstick in block has the boss for the front mount dipstick in the casting. I simply drilled the hole in my late model cover to use the front sump pan (sourced from the original motor on my 1969 mustang.
    So long as the damper's groove lines up with the seal, you should be good to go. However, one issue I had to deal with and also the reason I went late model TCC is belt alignment. Old style 302 water pumps spin opposite direction as the newer roller motor water pumps, so you also have to make sure the belts are spinning and aligning correctly.
    The small hose-barb is the thermostat bypass that connects to the water pump. On both my 1969 mustang and the ranchero, 1 heater connection goes to the water pump and the other heater connects to the intake manifold water port. the second water pump port connects to this nipple on the Tstat housing.

    BTW, I am in Houston, not too far from you.
    I am running a T-5 in my Ranchero as well and the shifter position is directly lined up with the subframe support. I had to cut into it and weld in some reinforcements to make the shifter work.

    IMG_1491.JPGIMG_0032.JPG
    Last edited by JMan; 05-11-2018 at 02:03 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks for the answers, guys!

    To stay "period-correct" looking, I'm using a 302 timing cover with the bolt-on pointer on the driver side and an old style water pump with the inlet on the passenger side. In 1970, Ford went to a driver's side inlet on the water pump, which means the timing pointer moved to the passenger side. Sometime in the 80's, Ford went to a smaller water pump and serpentine belt (and reverse rotation pump). That water pump also uses a different timing cover.

    My water pump is normal rotation since I'll be using V-belts, not a serpentine belt. The balancer I have is set up for the driver's side pointer, and I've verified that it indicates TDC when #1 piston is at the top, following the compression stroke. I'll double-check that (again ) when I do the final engine assembly.

    Good news is I put the pulley set on yesterday, and the crank and water pump groves line up perfectly, so I'm now 100% confident the balancer is on the crank all the way.

    Another question for you (I haven't researched this in all my SBF books yet, or even searched on the block all that carefully, so this might be a really easy question): Where does the pressure switch for the oil pressure idiot light go into the block?

    Thanks,

    David
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  26. #26
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    There is a 1/4 NPT threaded port in between the oil filter and timing chain cover on the driver side of the block.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks, JMan! I looked at the block today, and there's the threaded hole right where you said it was. That answers two questions: where does the oil pressure switch go? and what's THAT hole for?

    I noticed there's a similar hole on the passenger side also. I haven't inspected it closely to see if it's a blind hole or if it goes into something like an oil passage or water jacket. Do you know what that hole on the passenger side (circled in red) is for?



    David
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  28. #28
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    I have the same threaded hole on my block, but it doesn’t go all the way through. I think it was a mounting hole for the smog pump found on that era 302 block. I don’t use this hole.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Geoff H's Avatar
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    On my 5.0L that hole is used for a wiring harness mount/bracket. The wiring harness goes to the starter.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys! Glad it's not a hole I need to worry about plugging.

    David
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  31. #31
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Well, the engine is coming together nicely. The valve covers arrived today so I thought I should put them on along with the throttle body and air cleaner and exhaust manifolds, just so I could see how this thing is going to look.










    This weekend will be the beginning of "The Big Swap" when I yank out the old I6/3-speed and put in the new V8/5-speed.


    Thanks again for all the answers and advice!

    David
    My Saving Grace: John 3:16

    FFR6687, Graduate #39 in the Class of 2009
    The Factory Five Forum March 2012 POM

  32. #32
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    David,

    I only have one question;

    What distributor did you use? Concerned about distributor driven gear at the bottom.

    I know this was discussed earlier . . . if you stayed with the later model 5.0 engine with the roller cam, your distributor gear needs to be STEEL.

    Just trying to save you a major issue farther down the line.

    Engine is looking real cool and will definitely give the "early 289" impression to anyone looking in.

    Doc
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks, Doc. It's a PerTronix distributor and when I bought it I confirmed it has a steel gear per your advice.

    David
    Last edited by Cobradavid; 05-23-2018 at 08:32 PM.
    My Saving Grace: John 3:16

    FFR6687, Graduate #39 in the Class of 2009
    The Factory Five Forum March 2012 POM

  34. #34
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    Do not want to complicate things, but now is the time for A/C. You could hang a period correct unit under the dash, like in the 66 Mustang. All the Mustang stuff should be available and bolt on. Missed what trans you are going with. If you are going auto with a floor shift, use a Lokar shifter. I have used all of the cable, ratchet and etc shifters. They are junk compared to the Lokar.
    20th Anniversary Mk IV, A50XS Coyote, TKO 600, Trunk Drop Box, Trunk Battery Box, Cubby Hole, Seat Heaters, Radiator hanger and shroud.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Cobradavid's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestions, Railroad. We put a/c in when we did the restoration and it is an under-dash unit like what was offered in 66. I'll need to come up with a different bracket for the a/c compressor, but the rest of the existing system should still work after The Big Swap.

    The new transmission is a T-5, so we'll be going from 3 on the Tree to 5 on the floor. I purchased a Lokar shift lever that seems to replicate the original style lever for the 4 speed that was available in 1966.

    David
    My Saving Grace: John 3:16

    FFR6687, Graduate #39 in the Class of 2009
    The Factory Five Forum March 2012 POM

  36. #36
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    DISTRIBUTOR GEAR

    I have a small block with a steel roller cam. When I chose a distributor I asked around, including Pertronix, what gear should I use? They told me steel. It lasted 4,500 miles until the cam gear was completely shredded. I've done more research, now I am running a melonized iron gear.

    John

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