Anybody running a SBC?

[crspdsk8]

I just picked up a SBC 350 and have a few questions and looking for others who are doing the same or have already done so that can share pics of their set up. It is carbureted and I am also running a 700r4 Transmission

What type of headers did you run or what fits best?
Does the power steering motor clear the stock oil pan?
Is their enough room or clearance to run and HEI Distributor? I rather not have an ignition box.

Any pictures, or recommendations are very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Charles

[maczter]

Hi Charles,

Yes on power steering. You will have to reclock it and drill a new hole, but it fits well. Also, yes on the HEI. I will get some pics for you shortly. Do you have the SBC guide from FFR? It mentions you need the short water pump, although I and others, have made a long one work. The headers are shorty headers – Summit Racing SUM-G9005 or Flowtech 11102 painted. I went with the ceramic coated Flowtech's, Flowtech Headers 31102FLT at Summit.

[crspdsk8]

Thanks for the info! I did not receive a SBC guide from FFR. I will call them tomorrow and try and get that. That will probably answer a lot of questions.
I was already figuring a short water pump anyways so that is no big deal

What type of Alternator are you running and type of mount?
What type of pulleys/belts are you using?

Thank for the help!
Charles

Hi Charles,

Yes on power steering. You will have to reclock it and drill a new hole, but it fits well. Also, yes on the HEI. I will get some pics for you shortly. Do you have the SBC guide from FFR? It mentions you need the short water pump, although I and others, have made a long one work. The headers are shorty headers – Summit Racing SUM-G9005 or Flowtech 11102 painted. I went with the ceramic coated Flowtech's, Flowtech Headers 31102FLT at Summit.

[maczter]

OK, the pulleys and belt were a real PIA for me. I did not like the mounts available for the short water pump, as it required the alternator up and high on the driver's side and used a v-belt. I really wanted a ribbed belt. I used a standard GM one wire alternator, painted black, eBay, 90 Amp I think. I used a LWP, and a set of pulleys from eBay again.

I used the bolt and tensioner similar to Summit SME-2000. I could not use the water pump mount portion as it was too thick, so I used Summit TRD-9637.

It required me to cut the spacer, and I will post a pic as well. Stay tuned.

[Mike6568]

Charles:
I'm using a SBC and 700R4 combo as well. With a short water pump the alternator rests to the side of the valve cover which puts it out there a few inches. I'm not running side covers and kinda like the old school look. In my set up I'm about 1 1/2 inches past the hood. I couldn't find a bracket that would keep it under the hood, but I'm new to this so there is probably a way (other than a March Serpentine setup). Maybe later I'll find the solution. Maczter is spot on with his info as well. What did you use for an alternator bracket Maczter? I've included a few pictures, let me know if I can help in any way.Hot Rod 2.JPGBody2.JPGHot-Rod 166.JPGphoto.JPG

[maczter]

Hope these help. The biggest reason for the SWP is the clearance between the lower pulley and the steering rack using the LWP. I have less than 1/4", but it was enough to get the belt on and I am happy with it.

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[crspdsk8]

Thanks for the help Mike and your ride is looking pretty good! I have a little bit more of an understanding now on what I am up against. I plan on running the side covers some times so I need to find a way to get that alternator inside the engine bay. I found a lower mount for the SWP that may work but not for sure unless I try. It is summit number SME-2005. If you get a chance take a look and let me know if you think that may work. If not, I may look more into what Maczter did with a LWP and maybe use a V belt pulley to have a little more clearance near the steering rack.
Thanks for the help and I am sure I will have a lot more questions along the way!
Also what headers are you running?

Charles:
I'm using a SBC and 700R4 combo as well. With a short water pump the alternator rests to the side of the valve cover which puts it out there a few inches. I'm not running side covers and kinda like the old school look. In my set up I'm about 1 1/2 inches past the hood. I couldn't find a bracket that would keep it under the hood, but I'm new to this so there is probably a way (other than a March Serpentine setup). Maybe later I'll find the solution. Maczter is spot on with his info as well. What did you use for an alternator bracket Maczter? I've included a few pictures, let me know if I can help in any way.Hot Rod 2.JPGBody2.JPGHot-Rod 166.JPGphoto.JPG

[Mike6568]

Charles:
Thanks! The alternator was like Maczter said, a PIA. I don't think the lower or high center mounts will work either. There is a frame cross member in the way down below and hood clearance will be an issue up high. You may be able to use the lower mount with a small alternator made for tight spaces? I'd do something like Maczter did, that looks cool. I'm using the Flowtech ceramic coated headers (Flowtech 31102FLT)

[maczter]

Yep, the lower mounted ones DO NOT FIT, made that mistake too. On mine, the alternator is VERY close to the valve cover, but I can still get the valve cover off without touching. If you decide to go the V-belt route, not the ribbed, and a LWP, let me know before you buy any pulleys, I have a set that I will sell you cheap! I chose the LWP as it has much more capacity than the SWP, and with a 383 and aluminum heads, I wanted all I could get. I am not running side panels, but if I did, the alternator is tucked in nicely.

[maczter]

Yep, the lower mounted ones DO NOT FIT, made that mistake too. On mine, the alternator is VERY close to the valve cover, but I can still get the valve cover off without touching. If you decide to go the V-belt route, not the ribbed, and a LWP, let me know before you buy any pulleys, I have a set that I will sell you cheap! I chose the LWP as it has much more capacity than the SWP, and with a 383 and aluminum heads, I wanted all I could get. I am not running side panels, but if I did, the alternator is tucked in nicely.

[crspdsk8]

Thanks to both of you for all the input! Looks like you both are using the same headers and I will go with the same ones.
Jack, thanks for sending me the SBC guide! Now I know how those mounts go together! lol I want to do something like your set up as it appears it fits with the side covers on. Will those pulleys you have work with a SWP and how much you want for them? Is it all the pulleys and do you have pictures of them?

Also anything I need to be aware of with installing a 700r4 Transmission? Does the stock bell housing work OK? I am hoping to pick one up this week and just want to be aware of any issues prior to buying one.

Thanks again for all your help!!

Yep, the lower mounted ones DO NOT FIT, made that mistake too. On mine, the alternator is VERY close to the valve cover, but I can still get the valve cover off without touching. If you decide to go the V-belt route, not the ribbed, and a LWP, let me know before you buy any pulleys, I have a set that I will sell you cheap! I chose the LWP as it has much more capacity than the SWP, and with a 383 and aluminum heads, I wanted all I could get. I am not running side panels, but if I did, the alternator is tucked in nicely.

[maczter]

Pulleys are for a LWP. I paid $90 for them, I will sell them for $55 shipped. Its it all three, crank, alternator and water pump. You will still need the alternator mounts I mentioned earlier. Again, the LWP pumps more water than the short. I am traveling for work right now and get you some pics this weekend. Call me at the number in my PM.

As for the 700r....no issues except I had to buy a new yoke for the driveshaft, a new u-joint, and get the driveshaft shortened. A good driveline shop can do/sell all that for you.

[Mike6568]

Maczter sounds like you have a 700R4 as well. Do you have a lockup converter? This has been a real ordeal for me. I replaced the FFR brake switch with one that will unlock the converter when I touch the brake pedal. The problem is getting it to unlock when coming out of fourth gear automatically. Unless I touch the brake it will stay locked. our local reputable shop said this can be fixed but will have to spend some time figuring out how Monster set it up. He installed a vacuum switch but with the check valve in the line it holds vacuum and won't allow it to cycle on or off. Without the check valve it will unlock when slowing down but when you accelerate it cycles on/off/on/off quickly. Any ideas? Seems if I could bleed off the vacuum between cycles I'd be okay.

[maczter]

Yes, a 700R. I did not buy a lockup converter and did install the TCI kit that keeps constant pressure to the valve body. So I have really no idea if I have to have a LU converter or not. I hope to go cart as soon as spring gets here, so I guess I will know then.

[crspdsk8]

Hi Jack, I was looking on your blog and seen a picture on there that had V belt pulleys, are these the ones your selling? If so, I will go ahead and take them. Although, that ribbed belt is starting to rub off on me and maybe will go that way but depends how much that set up would run. Do you mind sharing what pulleys those are and about what they run? Does going with the V belt pulleys give you more clearance between the crank and steering rack?

I am planning on going with the same set up as you with the mounts as it seem to be the best and only way to go and still use the side panels.

Thanks,
Charles

Pulleys are for a LWP. I paid $90 for them, I will sell them for $55 shipped. Its it all three, crank, alternator and water pump. You will still need the alternator mounts I mentioned earlier. Again, the LWP pumps more water than the short. I am traveling for work right now and get you some pics this weekend. Call me at the number in my PM.

As for the 700r....no issues except I had to buy a new yoke for the driveshaft, a new u-joint, and get the driveshaft shortened. A good driveline shop can do/sell all that for you.

[maczter]

The V belt in the SWP is best for clearance. Although these parts are for LWP, yes you will have much better clearance than I do.

These are the pics of what I have for sale:

mwQBkk_ZbAUvraTkMVHcbcg.jpgmQtBG5wr7oKsx2z5Uc2tr_w.jpgmLpRHV2qfLUw8xEcpcxglrw.jpg

Send paypal to [email protected]

If you notice on the previous pics of my mount, i cut the spacer in 2, taking about 3/4" off and putting it in front of the alternator. This allowed the belt to line up anduse the front steel mount. You may have to customize for you as to what works best. Honestly, I spent over $400 getting to where I am now, so you are benefiting from my pain.

[crspdsk8]

Thanks Jack for the info. I went to a swap meet today and picked up a set up pulleys dirt cheap!
I am installing the engine mounts and have a couple quick questions. In the bag with the mount itself, their is an "pre load" plate that the mount instructions says you must use but the FFR diagrams and instructions does not mention this anywhere. Is this plate to be used? Also the bolts they FFR gave me to use to mount the plat to the motor are too big. The block takes a 3/8" bolt and they sent me 5/8" bolt. Should their also be or recommended to use a flat and lock washer when installing the mounts? Am I missing something?

The V belt in the SWP is best for clearance. Although these parts are for LWP, yes you will have much better clearance than I do.

These are the pics of what I have for sale:

mwQBkk_ZbAUvraTkMVHcbcg.jpgmQtBG5wr7oKsx2z5Uc2tr_w.jpgmLpRHV2qfLUw8xEcpcxglrw.jpg

Send paypal to [email protected]

If you notice on the previous pics of my mount, i cut the spacer in 2, taking about 3/4" off and putting it in front of the alternator. This allowed the belt to line up anduse the front steel mount. You may have to customize for you as to what works best. Honestly, I spent over $400 getting to where I am now, so you are benefiting from my pain.

[maczter]

Awesome, hope they work for you. I spent WAY to much on trial and error...lol. I used the preload plates and now that you mention it, I think I also had to source some block bolts at the hardware store. Make sure they are Grade 8, yes to the lock and flat washers, and also a little blue locktite too (I am paranoid). Also your poly tranny mount in the kit will not fit. It is for a Ford. Autozone sells the correct one (Energy Suspension 3-1108G) for $30 and has it in stock in most stores. You will have to drill some new holes in the FFR mount plate too, but no big deal. I can send pics if you need them.

[crspdsk8]

I am hoping they work too! Thanks for the heads up on the tranny mount. I will have to pick one up to have ready when I get to the point. No rush, but if you have a chance can you send pics? Thanks

Awesome, hope they work for you. I spent WAY to much on trial and error...lol. I used the preload plates and now that you mention it, I think I also had to source some block bolts at the hardware store. Make sure they are Grade 8, yes to the lock and flat washers, and also a little blue locktite too (I am paranoid). Also your poly tranny mount in the kit will not fit. It is for a Ford. Autozone sells the correct one (Energy Suspension 3-1108G) for $30 and has it in stock in most stores. You will have to drill some new holes in the FFR mount plate too, but no big deal. I can send pics if you need them.

[crspdsk8]

Those running a 700r4, did your transmission plate that came with the kit work? I got a Ford transmission mount so I went out and bought the correct mount, (Thanks Jack for the part #) but that mount does not line up with the holes on the plate provided. I have an email to FFR is they have a plate that works, but just curious what other have done.

If I drill new holes, it appears like it wont support the transmission as well as it will overlap with the existing holes. Is it best to get a new steel plate and have it fabricated to fit? Do you have pics of what you have done?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Charles

[maczter]

Yeah, mine supports fine, drilled a couple of new holes. I am in Chicago let me see if I can get some. Wife hooked us up.

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[crspdsk8]

Thanks Jack, and thank your wife for me too!lol
These pictures really helped me understand how this mount is suppose to be installed!
Thank you!
Charles

Yeah, mine supports fine, drilled a couple of new holes. I am in Chicago let me see if I can get some. Wife hooked us up.

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[Mike6568]

Maczter, as you know (see above) I'm running the sbc/700r4 combo and had to ditch the supplied Ford trans mount as well. Since I'm new to this and hind sight is always 20/20, after reading your post, I went and bought the correct GM trans mount that you and Charles are using. Originally I used two spacers in place of the Energy Suspension Trans mount, what if any affect would this have on my set up (no rubber mount, just two bolts and steel spacers), probably not good I know...? Does the energy suspension mount remove vibration or what's it purpose? I plan on installing the correct mount as soon as it comes back from the body shop but was more curious than anything else. Thanks for your help.

[maczter]

Mike...

Chances are you would have broken either the bolts or your tranny housing. That rubber or poly in this case, allows the trans to torque with the motor and flex ever so slightly. Poly does not flex as drastically as rubber nor does it wear out or get affected by oils/tranny fluids. In addition to the flex, it helps isolate any vibrations. Now that being said, we do have solid motor mounts....so any torque up there is getting absorbed directly by the frame and mounts...with no vibration isolation. So IMHO, you are much better having the mount as opposed to not.

Jack

[Mike6568]

Thanks for the explanation. Glad I picked up the tip in your thread, I'll swap this out as soon as it gets back from the body shop. Thanks again.

[crspdsk8]

Here is what FFR came up with to make up for the gap I had between the transmission mount and the mounting plate. It's 2 of the original plate welded together with spacers. Had to holes drilled to fir the mount and seems like it will work.
new tranny mount to frame.jpgTransmission mount installed.jpg

I also got the yoke and joint FFR said was needed to go with their driveshaft. It appears that it is going to be almost 3" short! Not what I was expecting, as it seems most had to cut them down to instead of making them longer.

[Mike6568]

Maczter:
My car should be back from the body shop in a couple of weeks (I hope). I picked up the correct GM bracket and trying to make sure I do it correctly the 2nd time around. It appears you used spacers much in the same manner I did, but you incorporated the proper poly mount in between the tranny and mounting plate. Is your tranny sitting on just the spacers which then sit on the poly mount? Again, I appreciate your help.

Yeah, mine supports fine, drilled a couple of new holes. I am in Chicago let me see if I can get some. Wife hooked us up.

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[maczter]

Yep....tranny>spacers>mount (narrow side down). That new mount plate is killer too, looks nice and strong. Did they send that to you? I had to buy my own yoke and joint, then get the shaft shortened (twice).

[Mike6568]

I'm going to do the same thing you did. I did not get the new mount, I called FFR to order one and they didn't think it came from their shop. Thanks again.

Yep....tranny>spacers>mount (narrow side down). That new mount plate is killer too, looks nice and strong. Did they send that to you? I had to buy my own yoke and joint, then get the shaft shortened (twice).

[crspdsk8]

Hey guys, I am moving slowing along on the build but got a couple quick questions.

I am looking at running cooling lines for the 700r4. Have either of you done this yet and if so what type of lines did you run and how did you route them?

Are you running your fan manually or off of the thermostat? Where did you install the fan switch and temp gauge sending unit? I have heard to not install the switch in the radiator as FFR suggest as it is at the bottom and will read 30-40 degree's cooler. On my harness, the wire for the fan thermo switch is also ran with the other sensor wires to the motor.

What kind of shifter are you using? I am looking at the Lokar, with a 6" shaft.

Did you use the supplied radiator hose adapters, and do they fit the Chevy water pump ok? If not, what did you use?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get this all figured out. Thanks!!

Oh and by the way, FFR did make that tranny mount for me as a special favor since they didn't send me any spacers to use with the mount they originally sent. This is something they normally wouldn't do. I also suggested they include this mount in the kit when someone is using the same SBC/700r4 combo.

[maczter]

Braided stainless lines from tranny all the way to the cooler in the radiator. Running them down the inside of the right lower frame rail.

Thermostat for the fan. I was originally going to run it off of the port in the lower radiator, but after reading some other posts, I am going to use on of the ones on the front of my intake.

Shifter...well I like the Lokar too, but since I am building mine with a race car theme, I went with a drag race floor shifter from B&M with a pistol grip shifter. Since I am using a push button and toggle for starting, no key, I am wiring the clutch safety switch to a button on my shifter normally used for NOS or roll control, as a hidden sort of anti-theft button.

On the hose adapters, yes. Went round and round with myself on those. I am not a fan of the corrugated tubing whether rubber or metal, as it can cause cooling restrictions. Thought about a combination of hard aluminum tubing with rubber, but is kind of on the $$ side. So in the end, I decided to run the stock, and see how she runs. I did find and plan to use some cool aluminum covers for the rubber and hose clamps where the tubes meet the radiator and water pump in/outlets.

One more note on the 700R4. I was forewarned from the builder I bought it from that you MUST set the trans cable properly or you can burn it up due to low fluid pressure. I circumvented that by installing a TCI constant pressure valve body. So now that cable only controls kickdown, not the pressure too.

[crspdsk8]

Thanks Jack! That is exactly what I was thinking in regards to the cooling lines for the tranny. I will probably make them myself to make sure I have the correct length and have been told to use -6an SS hose. I have been warned by a few others too about making sure the trans cable linkage is set correctly otherwise would toast it. That is out of my league and will leave that for the professionals. lol

Braided stainless lines from tranny all the way to the cooler in the radiator. Running them down the inside of the right lower frame rail.

Thermostat for the fan. I was originally going to run it off of the port in the lower radiator, but after reading some other posts, I am going to use on of the ones on the front of my intake.

Shifter...well I like the Lokar too, but since I am building mine with a race car theme, I went with a drag race floor shifter from B&M with a pistol grip shifter. Since I am using a push button and toggle for starting, no key, I am wiring the clutch safety switch to a button on my shifter normally used for NOS or roll control, as a hidden sort of anti-theft button.

On the hose adapters, yes. Went round and round with myself on those. I am not a fan of the corrugated tubing whether rubber or metal, as it can cause cooling restrictions. Thought about a combination of hard aluminum tubing with rubber, but is kind of on the $$ side. So in the end, I decided to run the stock, and see how she runs. I did find and plan to use some cool aluminum covers for the rubber and hose clamps where the tubes meet the radiator and water pump in/outlets.

One more note on the 700R4. I was forewarned from the builder I bought it from that you MUST set the trans cable properly or you can burn it up due to low fluid pressure. I circumvented that by installing a TCI constant pressure valve body. So now that cable only controls kickdown, not the pressure too.

[maczter]

Yes on the hoses, made them myself, and used the -6 AN sizes.

[crspdsk8]

Do you recall how long each hose run was from the trans to the radiator?

Yes on the hoses, made them myself, and used the -6 AN sizes.

[maczter]

Not off the top of my head, if you can wait until next weekend I can measure them for you. I am out of town until late Friday night.

[crspdsk8]

Thanks Jack. I just did a quick check and it appears they will be about 5 - 6 feet each depending on routing. While measuring, I am concerned about how coming around the headers/exhaust near the firewall. How did you run yours, under or over the exhaust along the firewall? When you get back, pictures would be great!

I am also curious what type of dipstick you are using for the 700r4 and what your thoughts are on the different types. I am trying to decide what would be best between the bell housing mount, and the firewall mount. I am leaning towards the bell housing mount as it is short, out of sight but still plenty of room to reach. The only issue I see is needing a longer funnel fill it.

Thanks again for your help.

[Mike6568]

I often find myself reading these posts and thinking "that's a good (better) idea" and changing what I have done. But, if it's any help, I ran my cooling lines along side the oil pan to the radiator. I wasn't sure how to get around the heat of the headers/exhaust either. I thought this was the lesser of two evils?

Thanks Jack. I just did a quick check and it appears they will be about 5 - 6 feet each depending on routing. While measuring, I am concerned about how coming around the headers/exhaust near the firewall. How did you run yours, under or over the exhaust along the firewall? When you get back, pictures would be great!

I am also curious what type of dipstick you are using for the 700r4 and what your thoughts are on the different types. I am trying to decide what would be best between the bell housing mount, and the firewall mount. I am leaning towards the bell housing mount as it is short, out of sight but still plenty of room to reach. The only issue I see is needing a longer funnel fill it.

Thanks again for your help.

[maczter]

I often find myself reading these posts and thinking "that's a good (better) idea" and changing what I have done. But, if it's any help, I ran my cooling lines along side the oil pan to the radiator. I wasn't sure how to get around the heat of the headers/exhaust either. I thought this was the lesser of two evils?

Don't we all...lol. I ran mine over the header, along the bottom of the floor to the frame rail. I do not have the exhaust on the car yet so I do not know how close it will be but appears to be clearing ok. Might fab a small heat shield if it is too close.

I used a firewall dipstick, braided stainless for flexibility where I mount it, thought it might be better given possible clearance issues, but I think the bell housing might work as well. My biggest PITA so far was the passenger side dipstick. Clearing the header and the wire looms was quite an issue. I was going to use billet looms that encased the wires horizontally and ran along the valve cover, but it would not allow me to use the dipstick. So I swapped it out for an open set that was vertical, but one of the wire looms was in the way. Altered the dipstick header bolt mount, but it kinked the stick too much and would not allow me to put it back in. Ended up getting some aluminum spacers and routing the wires up a little higher. Of course, one, just one, freakin' wire was cut too short, so had to buy a replacement, which cost almost half as much as the whole wiring kit. Go figure.

IMG_0095.JPG

[crspdsk8]

Started to run the cooling lines and am I leaning towards running them along the oil pan straight to the front. I tried running them along the fire wall, over the exhaust and along the frame rail to the front. Their are a lot of tight bends along there and not only I couldn't get it to look very well, but concerned if those hose bends will restrict the flow any?

I made all my other lines and these are the last I need to cut and fit. Not exactly sure which way I want to go. Do either of you have pics you can share to see if maybe I am not running them in a way that would look the best?

I decided to go with the bell housing mount dip stick. I like how it tucks it in behind the motor but still accessible. I plan on making a bracket that will mount between the bellhousing and dipstick, putting the stick closer to the side behind the heads.

Thanks guys!
Charles

[wabadi]

Hi charles,,,Hei dist will fit fine. Hood cleareance could be an issue, go for the high cleareance optional hood.