Coyote Engine Questions

[33PizzaGuy]

Is it just a basic install? What all do I have to do as far as tuning or is it required. Im looking at the FF Ford 5.0L Crate Engine that they are offering for $13,499. If I did that I would order it with TKO 600 installed already because thats an option $499. Also another option is Assembly/Labor of Coyote Engine $499, which I would do. Any feedback?

[michael everson]

There engine package complete is $14,000.00 They don't charge the $500 twice. I just installed one ad it was complete and ready to install. No issues. The tuning is up to you. I have heard some people don't do it and some do.
Mike

[Svtfreak]

Installing and getting it running with the ford controls pack should be quite easy. I’m working through that in mine right now. The worst thing I’ve ran across is how to lift it.

Tuning will probably be required if you change the intake from the big ford supplies box and mass air meter. Some folks have faves their own and got close eoniygh to the Ford size to not need tuning, but I plan on having mine tuned.

[wareaglescott]

Lots of debate back and forth on tuning. I installed mine no tune and ran it that way for 1000 miles during which time I thought it was running 10/10. Then I decided to go with a tune. Used Lund Racing. Turns out my first 1000 miles was really only about an 8/10. I am very impressed with the end result of the tune and at this point would recommend it.
EdwardB, King and I along with a Ford Performance engineer we know did have a fair amount of discussion/emailing concerning tunes. The info we came up with is the PCM has the capability to trim the fuel +/- 25% from stock. You will be running a different air intake but the result will be within the capability to safely operate the motor with no tune. With that being said there is nothing dangerous about running the stock tune but I believe you will obtain optimal performance with a tune.

[33PizzaGuy]

Thank you for the feedback. I thought it was an option just wasn't too sure. Also Im reading that the Boss 302 Intake actually lowers HP/Torque at the start but has a really good high end RPM more than the stock 5.0L Coyote intake. Thoughts? I really like the look of the Boss 302 Intake but I don't want to take anything away because of looks. Thanks

[edwardb]

Thank you for the feedback. I thought it was an option just wasn't too sure. Also Im reading that the Boss 302 Intake actually lowers HP/Torque at the start but has a really good high end RPM more than the stock 5.0L Coyote intake. Thoughts? I really like the look of the Boss 302 Intake but I don't want to take anything away because of looks. Thanks

There was a thread about that recently. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ifold-Worth-it. It significantly lowers HP/Torque at the lower RPM's. Different opinions about whether it matters. You'll have to decide.

[wareaglescott]

How will you drive the car?
For the street I find it hard to use all the power at the high rpms that often because the car is to quick and light. High rpm in 3rd gear or above is reaching go to jail speeds and I am generally not exceeding 100 on normal roads. haha
In a track application that may be very useful to you.

[Dave Howard]

Thank you for the feedback. I thought it was an option just wasn't too sure. Also Im reading that the Boss 302 Intake actually lowers HP/Torque at the start but has a really good high end RPM more than the stock 5.0L Coyote intake. Thoughts? I really like the look of the Boss 302 Intake but I don't want to take anything away because of looks. Thanks

For me, part of the Cobra owing experience is the showing experience. Every time you fill up with fuel it 's a mini car show. The hood always goes up because people want to see. I installed a BOSS 302 intake to enhance the showing experience. My opinion only, but the stock Coyote is far from attractive. I installed the Boss intake a few years ago knowing there would be a small loss in bottom end torque and HP. Not a big deal. The small reduction from stock is not noticeable. A custom tune was performed on a dyno. Air/fuel, ignition timing,intake and exhaust valve timing. Like Scott said, the cars get into "Holy Phack" speeds plenty fast enough. I have NO regrets.

As to the original question, the installation instructions from FFR and Ford Racing are very good and makes for an easy install. The engine/trans combo is bullet proof and runs super smooth on any fuel, at any altitude.

[Chris @ Forma]

We have done several now. We don't use the Ford performance pack but instead use another ECU to pick up features not available from Ford. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the package from FFR uses an air mass flow sensor, if that is the case it should run pretty darn well. If you are using a different ecu and running speed density, then you'll definitely need a tune as very small changes to your induction air path will effect the whole works. For optimal performance driving, the tune is definitely worth the coin.

Chris

[33PizzaGuy]

This is great information. Thank you all for the feedback.

[33PizzaGuy]

This was such a hard decision between my favorite SB383 and the 5.0L Coyoted. I chose Coyoted for a few reasons but it took me a few months of research.

[TheBabyBadger]

My BOSS "Road Runner" Coyote variant CAME WITH the manifold in question. I've since driven the BOSS. It's not lacking... anywhere! In fact, it has to be torque limited in the Mustang Version. My ECU has torque limiters disabled and the intake is without any question better looking than the stock Coyote cover and plastic manifold. That being said, I wouldn't install the Ford Racing manifold WITHOUT a tune, otherwise you're not utilizing the manifold properly. The Coyote doesn't have the heads and forged rotating assembly the BOSS engine comes with, or the high RPM alternator, so the HP may be out of range of the manifolds design. Ask a tuner familiar with the Coyote... OR...

Order a BOSS engine. New or low mileage. Then you get it all. I got my engine for less than $1k over a Coyote swap. You couldn't buy the manifold, much less the forged lower end and sodium filled valves and on and on for that kind money. PM me if you have questions on specifics and such.

Good Luck!

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[q4stix]

The Boss engine would be a great choice if the cost delta is so small once factoring in the extra cost of the manifold. If I remember correctly, that engine uses the 2011-2014 engine control pack. If you order a 2015+ engine, the heads may not have the sodium valves mentioned above, but the factory casting incorporates nearly all of the CNC changes of the Boss heads and flow nearly identical.

I'm not sure if there are Boss and transmission packages like the Coyote if you want to avoid doing that assembly work (which isn't terribly difficult and shouldn't be a show stopper).

[33PizzaGuy]

Factory Five has a package deal for a 5.0L Ford Coyote with a TKO 600 I believe for $14,000. Now one of the options is to add the Ford Performance Boss 302 Coyote Intake for $629. I may go that route and it looks so much better. I will call FF and see about the tuning specs.

[Rsnake]

The Boss intake does look amazing and I am also thinking about going that route.

[33PizzaGuy]

The Boss intake does look amazing and I am also thinking about going that route.

How far have you got on your build?

[TheBabyBadger]

Factory Five has a package deal for a 5.0L Ford Coyote with a TKO 600 I believe for $14,000. Now one of the options is to add the Ford Performance Boss 302 Coyote Intake for $629. I may go that route and it looks so much better. I will call FF and see about the tuning specs.

Keep in mind adding the manifold ONLY doesn't change the oil drain problem the Coyotes have vs. the RoadRunner (BOSS engine) and the rotating assembly isn't designed for the same R's. And yes, you lose the sodium filled valves. Find an actuall BOSS engine and have a harness made (HotWireAuto.com) and flash out the PATS. Cheaper than a control pack by miles! My 2 cents.

[Muggstang]

I purchased a 2014 Coyote engine with MT. I know that I will need some kind of control pack but I have few questions. Since it will not have to pass smog because the SB 1000 law in California I am wondering if I need o2 sensors? What control pack should I purchase?

[edwardb]

I purchased a 2014 Coyote engine with MT. I know that I will need some kind of control pack but I have few questions. Since it will not have to pass smog because the SB 1000 law in California I am wondering if I need o2 sensors? What control pack should I purchase?

That's a Gen 1 Coyote so has to use this control pack if you're going Ford Performance: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6017-A504VB. Has to be this one and not any of the newer ones, e.g. Gen 2 or Gen 3 (just being released). Yes, the O2 sensors are mandatory with this setup. There may be aftermarket solutions using a different PCM, program, etc. But I'm personally not familiar with the options.

[Muggstang]

That's a Gen 1 Coyote so has to use this control pack if you're going Ford Performance: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6017-A504VB. Has to be this one and not any of the newer ones, e.g. Gen 2 or Gen 3 (just being released). Yes, the O2 sensors are mandatory with this setup. There may be aftermarket solutions using a different PCM, program, etc. But I'm personally not familiar with the options.

I have been looking into the "Detail Zone" and they have a custom harness which can be placed anywhere in the car. They re-flash the PCM for $400 extra. Total cost of $1400. Would I still need to use the 02 sensors? I would still need an air intake system. I am using the FFR headers and exhaust system how and where would I place the o2 sensors?

[tcollins]

I have a buddy that just picked up a new Gen-2 Aluminator long block for around $5k. I also started with same thing (Gen-1 Aluminator) in my 33 hot rod; this seems to make most since I changed the intake and headers anyway. For optimal performance its always best to get it tuned on a chassis dyno with the final setup. 445HP@wheels

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[q4stix]

I have been looking into the "Detail Zone" and they have a custom harness which can be placed anywhere in the car. They re-flash the PCM for $400 extra. Total cost of $1400. Would I still need to use the 02 sensors? I would still need an air intake system. I am using the FFR headers and exhaust system how and where would I place the o2 sensors?

Yes, you will still need the O2 sensors. The ECU needs them in order to run in closed loop fueling and for any open loop fueling compensation learned values. The best place for them is right after the merge collector and any exhaust shop should be able to weld in the O2 bungs for you.

[Muggstang]

Yes, you will still need the O2 sensors. The ECU needs them in order to run in closed loop fueling and for any open loop fueling compensation learned values. The best place for them is right after the merge collector and any exhaust shop should be able to weld in the O2 bungs for you.

Great...thanks for the info that is very helpful.

[1932]

If you are going to run hood and sides, or finders then the problem is getting cool air to intake. I am going to work on this.