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Thread: Holley HP EFI help needed

  1. #1
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Holley HP EFI help needed

    Does anyone have experience with this system? The car starts and idles but when RPM's come up it starts backfiring and missing. Mice got into the engine harness. I've inspected the harness engine to computer and repaired chewed sensor wires. The throttle body has 2 electrical connections to it and the wires are unaffected, as far as I can tell.

    I need to connect diagnostics to the system, which I've never done. What software and hardware is needed?

    Does anyone have an online training reference?


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  2. #2
    There are no diagnostics for the Holley. Connect a laptop and use the software (free) to view the system.

    What type of fuel system? Stacks? TB? Is the timing controlled by the HP? When you connect the laptop check your fuel map and do some data logging to capture the problem, especially if you can replicate it.

    It's a good system and should be able to find the problem, even if it's just a tuning issue.
    I'm just a victim of a thousand physic wars!
    www.weendoggy.com/cobra.htm

  3. #3
    I have quite a bit of experience with this system. I’m Currently running it on my stack injection system. First thing to do is download the software to your laptop. Go to Holley.com support HP efi. You also will need access to the ecu to plug in a usb cable. Once you have the software installed, the help section will have tons of information and wiring diagrams. There are several versions of firmware available. I’m guessing you have V2 or maybe V3. V4 is pretty new. Once you get one installed and connect to the ECU you can view what version is installed and make sure you have the correct one. Next would be to view all the sensors and make sure everything looks correct. If nothing is obvious make a data log as you run it. If you want you can email it to me and I’ll look it over. I’ll be happy to walk you through things over the phone if you want to give me a call once you get the software downloaded. 512 6590706.

    Bob Lloyd
    Last edited by bobl; 05-07-2018 at 11:20 PM.
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  4. #4
    Do you have the hand controller that came with the system, and if so, what type? Is it the small 2x3" unit or the 3x5" LCD. If you have the small unit, the latest software (ver. 4) will not work with that and you'll need to use the laptop and upgrade the firmware unless you know what version is on the ECU. You'll know if it's an issue because if you use ver. 4 software and the ECU is less, it'll give you an error message telling you so. If you know the ECU version, d/l the correct software version from www.holley.com Also, don't forget to do a TPS auto reset if you upgrade the software on the ECU. The engine won't start until you do.

    Another quick check is to put the ECU in Open Loop. If the engine seems to run fine, it's a sign the O2 sensor is bad. You have to be sure your AF table is in good shape and I'm guessing the car ran fine before. This is kind of a limp in mode so if your AF table is good and the learning has been done, the engine should run pretty good. Then, get a new O2 sensor (some are proprietary from Holley). Be sure to put the ECU in closed loop when done.
    Last edited by weendoggy; 05-08-2018 at 07:56 AM.
    I'm just a victim of a thousand physic wars!
    www.weendoggy.com/cobra.htm

  5. #5
    Have you found the issue?
    I'm just a victim of a thousand physic wars!
    www.weendoggy.com/cobra.htm

  6. #6
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    I'm coming at this from zero experience so please bear with me.

    I had to do some digging but found the CD that came with the EFI. It is version 2.2.0.3. The ECU has never been updated.

    Is there an upgrade path I need to follow or should I just install the software I have?

    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    I'm coming at this from zero experience so please bear with me.

    I had to do some digging but found the CD that came with the EFI. It is version 2.2.0.3. The ECU has never been updated.

    Is there an upgrade path I need to follow or should I just install the software I have?
    Install from the CD. It should match the version that's in the ECU. You can update any of it from the Holley site if you later want to. What you have should work and allow you to diagnose your problem.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  8. #8
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    I don’t have a CD player in my laptop so I downloaded and installed version 2.2.0.4 from Holley. I’ll hook it up to the ECU tomorrow I get my first readings.


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    I don’t have a CD player in my laptop so I downloaded and installed version 2.2.0.4 from Holley. I’ll hook it up to the ECU tomorrow I get my first readings.

    If the ECU is OK, you just load the software on your laptop and connect to the ECU.

    Have your laptop plugged into power when doing so if the ECU has to be reflashed with software/firmware. The firmware is in the d/l file. Hopefully the "mouse" problem didn't turn the ECU into a brick. You can use a regular mini-USB cord to connect to the ECU. Once done, the two should talk. If you have to reload the firmware as described from scratch, you will NOT have any tune saved in the ECU. You'll have to start with a saved one (hopefully you did that) or maybe start with a pre-programmed one that's close to your engine specs.

    I guess I should ask if you have the Stealth, Terminator or Sniper. The Sniper uses it's own software and is not the same as the HP line. i.e. separate ECU=HP EFI : attached ECU=Sniper

    If you need extra help, let me know.
    I'm just a victim of a thousand physic wars!
    www.weendoggy.com/cobra.htm

  10. #10
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    I got a chance this weekend to hook up the ECU to my laptop.

    First "error" I got was this:



    But I was still able to sync to the ECU and download it's settings.

    As has been the case during this, the car started right up with no throttle input and idled, seemly ok, but with a little backfire fart right when it lit. Subsequent starts didn't do this.

    I then captured this on my gauge screen:



    Fuel Pressure from the harness is not hooked up. Oil pressure currently goes directly to the gauge.

    I sent the images to Bob Lloyd (BobL) and we had a conversation about it. He mentioned the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) reading -40 F(!) and he mentioned that the reading would cause all sorts of havoc once the engine was anywhere but off idle. He suggested I change the mapping on the Coolant Temperature enrichment table to 100% across the board. At -40 the mapping was set to 150%.

    Now the mapping looks like this:


    He also suggested the plugs are probably fouled. I'll pull one or more tonight to check.

    I'm hoping this will fix the issue, but I need to get 2 sensors into the system, that aren't hooked up yet for some reason. Also, in speaking with both Bob and Mike forte, I'm not sure that the fixed I made for the sensor wiring is good enough. So even if the motor fires and runs correctly now, I'm going to still replace the harness.

    I also want to integrate the sensor that is causing the issue, but there doesn't seem to be a port for it. Bob mentioned that the ECU should be driving the fan but I think it is currently being driven by a 2 wire harness sensor? I need to figure out what's going on there to see if the engine harness coolant sensor needs to be used instead? <-- notice the question mark

    Thanks Bob for your help this weekend! Hopefully I'm now on a path back to a working roadster (well this one anyway. I haven't ripped out ol' 5369's ECU yet to see what's going on there, but that's a different thread)

    Last edited by David Hodgkins; Yesterday at 01:01 PM.

    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  11. #11
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Researching the Coolant Temperature sensor, I see this on Holley's site:



    I have that 2 wire set up in the car already. I thought one of the 2 unused 3-wires sensors was used for this?



    (the other is grey/orange/black)

    Time to break out the schematic...

    EDIT Grey wire plug is Oil Pressure, Purple wire plug is Fuel Pressure...

    I wonder if I wired the coolant sensor backwards??
    Last edited by David Hodgkins; Yesterday at 03:00 PM.

    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  12. #12
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Hi David,

    You need two coolant temperature sensors. One drives your temperature gauge, and the other feeds information to the Sniper system. Because the sensor provides a temperature-dependent resistance, you can't just piggy back off a single sensor.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage

  13. #13
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phileas_fogg View Post
    Hi David,

    You need two coolant temperature sensors. One drives your temperature gauge, and the other feeds information to the Sniper system. Because the sensor provides a temperature-dependent resistance, you can't just piggy back off a single sensor.


    John
    I have 3. Gauge, CTS, Fan(?)

    On the passenger side the black/white wired one is the gauge.

    The yellow/black I believe is going into the Ron Francis harness to drive the cooling fan



    You can see the line repairs on the one on the driver's side. I believe this is the CTS plug (brown wire)

    Last edited by David Hodgkins; Yesterday at 06:00 PM.

    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  14. #14
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    For you EFI gurus, how do you feel about this as the fuel pressure sensor?
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/554-102


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  15. #15
    That's what I have. Works great
    20th Anniversary MK4 Roadster, #8752, 18 of 20, Delivered 12/03/15, 1st Start 01/28/2017, off to paint 4/13/2017, Forte 351w/ Holley EFI, Forte throttle linkage, TKO 600/Forte Hyd. Clutch, UniSteer Electra Steering, RT's turn Signals, many Breeze parts, Paint by the Cobra Colorist. Finished on 10/08/2017. 500 mile inspection on 10/21/2017

  16. #16
    Yes definitely use the Holley sensor. It's a direct plug and play.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    For you EFI gurus, how do you feel about this as the fuel pressure sensor?
    https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/554-102

    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

  17. #17
    The Holley wiring color code is brown for the CTS signal and black/white for the sensor ground. So the sensor you spliced the wires on appears to be the CTS. There has to be an open in the harness somewhere. Maybe the splice? I think it would still read ok if the wires were reversed since it is just reading resistance.

    Bob
    Mk IV Roadster, 347/516 HP, 8 stack injection, Astro Performance T5, 3-Link 3.55 gears, Purchased 08/2015, Graduated 02/2017

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