Complete VS Base Kit

[Kurtracer22]

So after 40 years of waiting I'm ready to order my coupe kit. I'm looking for some advice on Base VS Complete. I have a '88 roller 302 that's complete, a World Class T5, 2017 Torsen 3.73 IRS with brakes and spindles. Looking at the differences between the two kits, some of the higher-priced items from the Complete kit I won't need - wiring harness(building my own), ECU(will be Sniper), front brakes will be Wilwood units, rack will be aftermarket. With the $5000 difference between the two kits it seems like I can source the fuel tank, drive shaft, steering rack, etc and still be considerably further ahead on the money front. Am I missing anything major? Is there another reason to consider the Complete? Thanks for the help!

[Ltngdrvr]

Do a complete kit and leave out those items you don't want.

[Kurtracer22]

Thanks Ltngdrvr, I didn't know that was an option

[klawrence]

If I were to build another one , I would not use the ron francis wiring. Go with a generic 12 or 20 circuit from painless, I had connectors that were not pinned correctly , just general bad quality. That and the ron francis was designed to cover multiple kits, removed a lot.

[cgundermann]

Thanks Ltngdrvr, I didn't know that was an option

It didn’t use to. My MK4 was a basic and my Daytona is a complete kit in which I deleted several items. Just be forewarned, for those deleted items you are not getting/subtracting top dollar…

Chris

[CaptB]

Factory Five is pretty good about swapping/credit items.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Be sure that you look at everything line by line when comparing the two. Sure, the major items are easy to spot but there are lots of smaller, miscellaneous pieces that are included with the complete kits that you'll have to find and purchase on your own. Nickles and dimes add up quickly not to mention your investment in time to search out the necessary parts that are not included in the base. Additionally there are some items included in the complete kit that you'll need to add as Factory Five options to a base---radiator and their proprietary spindles for example. I've built roadsters and Coupes both ways and unless you're really straying far off the path when all is taken into account the monetary difference between the two becomes much smaller.

Good luck either way you go!

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

I totally get wanting to save money; however, don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.
Donor builds can often be nice, but the few I've seen left a lot to be desired.
I'm sure you will have a great build no matter which path you choose.
Just know that time truly is money and sourcing parts can stink.

Good Luck!

[Ltngdrvr]

Be sure that you look at everything line by line when comparing the two. Sure, the major items are easy to spot but there are lots of smaller, miscellaneous pieces that are included with the complete kits that you'll have to find and purchase on your own. Nickles and dimes add up quickly not to mention your investment in time to search out the necessary parts that are not included in the base. Additionally there are some items included in the complete kit that you'll need to add as Factory Five options to a base---radiator and their proprietary spindles for example. I've built roadsters and Coupes both ways and unless you're really straying far off the path when all is taken into account the monetary difference between the two becomes much smaller.

Good luck either way you go!

Jeff

Yes, and this is why I say complete minus the parts you are sure you don't want included.

[Kurtracer22]

This is the kind of insight I was looking for, good info!

[John Dol]

Not sure if it's still this way but with the gen II the frame was bare (not powder coated). I wanted it that way as my frame color is red but that set me back $1,400 for everything that needed powder about 10 years ago. Not sure what pricing would be for that now.

EDIT just checked the website, I guess powder coating is optional both ways, but gloss black is $699 from FFR.

HTH,

John

[65 Cobra Dude]

As Jeff and others said, I would go with the complete kit. What I would do differently is don’t cancel items you don’t want. I would get it all and sell what you don’t want here. You’ll get more money for the parts than the credits form FFR.

Henry

[wallace18]

As Jeff and others said, I would go with the complete kit. What I would do differently is don’t cancel items you don’t want. I would get it all and sell what you don’t want here. You’ll get more money for the parts than the credits form FFR.

Henry

I agree 100% with Henry. I built a base kit MK4 for my painter with a donor mustang. We spent more in the end than if we went with complete kit. JM2W.

[WIS89]

Kurt-

I agree with what Henry said! Factory Five is great about crediting what you don't want/need. However, it is generally a modest credit. If you instead received everything, you can easily post the unnecessary items here on the forum for sale, at generally higher pricing than the FF credit.

I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. But, as others have pointed out, sourcing parts can oftentimes be tricky, and your time certainly has value. If it were me, I would do the complete kit and know you will have everything you may need.

Best of luck with whatever direction you choose, and please bring us along for the ride. Welcome to the family!

Regards,

Steve

[Papa]

Other than some relatively trivial bits and pieces, here is what I ended up not using from the complete kit:

Factory Five J Pipes
Factory Five EFI Fuel Pickup
Factory Five Fuel Filter, fittings, lines, bracket
Factory Five Brake Reservoir
Factory Five Side Louvers
TREMEC TKO 600 31 Spline Yoke (HD)
FFR Radiator hose (cortregated stainless steel)
Throttle Cable
FFR Bullet Mirror
FFR Rearview Mirror
MK4 Quick Jack (front & rear)
Factory Five Raw Steel Side Pipes
Fuel & Brake Hardlines
Air filter
Serpentine belt
P/S pully

As you can see, there isn't much that went unused.

Dave

[flight_83]

I went back and forth on this for a couple years before buying mine and went with the base kit. There were just too many items I wasn't going to use with the complete kit and even several items in the base kit I'm not using. that being said, my build is going to be well off the normal path so it was the best choice for me. if you're wanting to build a down the middle, by the manual replica you cant beat the complete kit.

[racingandfishing]

First post here from a newbee and the car isn't coming till January, so time to figure out some things.

I've been trying to get a list of the differences from Factory Five between the base and the complete kit, but so far no luck. They keep suggesting I order the complete kit unless I have a donor. They also told me there are things on the base that are not included, i.e. Cooling system, but the website clearly states that it is - or maybe the website isn't right?

Best I can tell, the differences in the two kits are that you would need to source the following for the base: driveshaft (can be ordered through parts), front and rear brakes (likely getting these from Levy anyway), spindles/lower A-arms (option to add), steering rack (option to add with power steering kit), wire harness (mixed reviews on the Ron Francis one and may not use) and fuel tank (I plan to use a fuel cell). Maybe there are a bunch of odds and ends, but I don't seem to be able to verify.

All that said, it would be extremely helpful to have an inventory list that ships with each of the kits so I can compare side by side. Any chance anyone has them from their builds and is willing to share?!!!

Thanks in advance!

[Papa]

First post here from a newbee and the car isn't coming till January, so time to figure out some things.

I've been trying to get a list of the differences from Factory Five between the base and the complete kit, but so far no luck. They keep suggesting I order the complete kit unless I have a donor. They also told me there are things on the base that are not included, i.e. Cooling system, but the website clearly states that it is - or maybe the website isn't right?

Best I can tell, the differences in the two kits are that you would need to source the following for the base: driveshaft (can be ordered through parts), front and rear brakes (likely getting these from Levy anyway), spindles/lower A-arms (option to add), steering rack (option to add with power steering kit), wire harness (mixed reviews on the Ron Francis one and may not use) and fuel tank (I plan to use a fuel cell). Maybe there are a bunch of odds and ends, but I don't seem to be able to verify.

All that said, it would be extremely helpful to have an inventory list that ships with each of the kits so I can compare side by side. Any chance anyone has them from their builds and is willing to share?!!!

Thanks in advance!

Have you seen this info.?

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/base-kit/

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/complete-kit/

[racingandfishing]

Have you seen this info.?

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/base-kit/

https://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/mk4/complete-kit/

First post and first newbee error...thought I was in the 65 coupe forum as I thought I had only searched there!!!! Sorry and I will repost there!

And I have reviewed the 65 base and complete pages, but F5 is telling me there are items on the base page that are included and they are saying they are not, so really confused.

[B]EDIT - This is the Coupe forum, right?!!!

[Papa]

First post and first newbee error...thought I was in the 65 coupe forum as I thought I had only searched there!!!! Sorry and I will repost there!

And I have reviewed the 65 base and complete pages, but F5 is telling me there are items on the base page that are included and they are saying they are not, so really confused.

[B]EDIT - This is the Coupe forum, right?!!!

You are in the correct forum, my mistake.

Same links for the Coupe:

https://www.factoryfive.com/type-65-...-get-base-kit/

https://www.factoryfive.com/type-65-...-complete-kit/

Dave

[Chopper]

When I built my roadster (MKIV), FFR was having a pretty good sale on options. I ended up ordering a base kit, and adding a lot of upgrades, even though I wasn't planning on using a doner car. I thought I could beat the price myself. In retrospect, I wish I had just ordered the complete kit. In between sourcing things myself and filling in the gaps for what was missing, it just wasn't worth it. Unfortunately, these days I don't think they'll be having a sale anytime soon...

I would make sure if you get a base kit that you get the Wilwood pedal box if you are planning on using Wilwood brakes. I got the Wilwood pedal box and I consider it one of the better decisions I made for my kit (I also have Wilwood brakes and a hydraulic clutch).

-Brandon

[Alan_C]

Regarding a donor, consider the newest compatible Mustang is a 2004. Trying to save money by refurbishing or using parts for cores just does not make much sense anymore.
With many using the 2015 and newer Mustang IRS, something else you cannot find in a older car.
Newer Mustang parts have little compatibility with the MK4 kits. So a late model Mustang donor will not provide a lot of parts, engine, IRS, and some have used the manual transmission.
Like most have said, the complete kit makes the most sense and will simplify the build.
Regarding deleting unwanted items, sometimes it is better to get the part and not take the deletion value. An example in my case was the side pipes. I wanted Gas-N side pipes and deleted the FFR side pipes. I think I would have been better off keeping them in the kit and selling them to another owner as the credit was about 1/2 their cost.

[racingandfishing]

Thanks Alan and Chopper for the input!

I don't plan on using donor parts. Thinking there is something wrong with the information on the website at the moment. It shows to include almost everything the same as the complete kit other than driveshaft, front and rear brakes, spindles/lower A-arms, steering rack, wire harness and fuel tank. I was just going to then add the driveshaft, spindles/A-Arms and the power steering kit that comes with the rack. I won't be using the brakes as I will likely get them from Levy, will be using a fuel cell instead of the tank and not sure I will use their wiring harness based on others comments.

If I get an update as to the contents of the base package differences being different than what is on the web page, I will report back!

[edwardb]

Thanks Alan and Chopper for the input!

I don't plan on using donor parts. Thinking there is something wrong with the information on the website at the moment. It shows to include almost everything the same as the complete kit other than driveshaft, front and rear brakes, spindles/lower A-arms, steering rack, wire harness and fuel tank. I was just going to then add the driveshaft, spindles/A-Arms and the power steering kit that comes with the rack. I won't be using the brakes as I will likely get them from Levy, will be using a fuel cell instead of the tank and not sure I will use their wiring harness based on others comments.

If I get an update as to the contents of the base package differences being different than what is on the web page, I will report back!

I'd be very surprised if the parts listing between the base and complete kit for the Coupe on FF's website isn't accurate. They're quite diligent about it. The webmaser that does the work is very conscientious. If you add up the cost of the difference between the base and complete kit ($5K for the Coupe) I'm betting it's about a wash. Many of done the analysis for various kits and it usually works out that way. Almost always buyers end up with the complete kit if they're not doing a donor, as others have said. Or wish they had after the fact. Having said that, if there are several parts you don't want (you list brakes, tank, etc.) you can ask for them to be deleted if you go with the complete kit. But typically it's only about half their retail cost. I'd strongly recommend you don't cut corners on the front spindles and LCA's. The FF parts are vastly superior to Mustang donor parts. Whether they're new or not. Yes, there have been several negative posts about he Ron Francis harness. But like many situations, the negatives are posted but the positives typically aren't. Thousands have been installed with no issues. Including the several I've installed. Don't know what your electrical expertise is. But for many it's one of the most challenging aspects. Lots on here can help you with the Ron Francis harness. Not so much if you go another direction. Good luck whatever you do. Our Gen 3 Coupe is in its third driving season and we love it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I did a base kit Coupe for a customer about 4 years ago during a 50% off options sale. We loaded it up with options and add-ons to get it as equivalent as possible to a complete kit but even with the sale prices when all was said and done it came out as a wash---and required a whole lot of extra leg work to source elsewhere all of the items that were not included. As an example lets look at just one system that is included in a complete kit but not the base...you might think that the fuel tank is easy BUT when you get down to it you'll also need the straps, and cover, and mounting hardware, and fill tube, and fill tube grommet, and cap, and sender, and pickup, and the lock rings, and the sealing rings, and the vent/rollover valve, and it's grommet. You'll find that it ain't available from only one source! You're going to have to find it and order it piecemeal and then when it's time to put it together hope that you haven't missed something.

I've built cars from both Base and Complete kits; unless your time is worth $0.00 and you like a good challenge you'll wind up ahead going with a Complete and selling unused items through the forum classifieds.

Jeff

[FFinisher]

I did a base kit Coupe for a customer about 4 years ago during a 50% off options sale. We loaded it up with options and add-ons to get it as equivalent as possible to a complete kit but even with the sale prices when all was said and done it came out as a wash---and required a whole lot of extra leg work to source elsewhere all of the items that were not included. As an example lets look at just one system that is included in a complete kit but not the base...you might think that the fuel tank is easy BUT when you get down to it you'll also need the straps, and cover, and mounting hardware, and fill tube, and fill tube grommet, and cap, and sender, and pickup, and the lock rings, and the sealing rings, and the vent/rollover valve, and it's grommet. You'll find that it ain't available from only one source! You're going to have to find it and order it piecemeal and then when it's time to put it together hope that you haven't missed something.

I've built cars from both Base and Complete kits; unless your time is worth $0.00 and you like a good challenge you'll wind up ahead going with a Complete and selling unused items through the forum classifieds.

Jeff

And...... All the parts from Factory Five work together, if you get the wrong gas filler for the tank, it wont work, if you get he wrong pickup, It wont work.. etc etc etc. As Jeff said this on one system. Brakes , cooling system , wiring, guages, etc etc have the same complication/idiosyncrasies.

I was personally a fan of donor builds early on, but given the fact that the newest donor is close to 20 years old it just doesn't generally make sense. there are exceptions, but they are rare.

[Papa]

Here is what I come up with based only on what is listed on the FFR website:















Keep in mind that the prices are from FFR's parts site or estimated based on available information and do not include shipping costs.

[racingandfishing]

Wow thank you for that level of detail!

There are some things I don't intend to use like their brakes (likely going with Levy as I want to do 15" wheels), the OEM fuel tank system (going with a fuel cell) and the wiring harness (mixed reviews and I do electrical on the side). But other than that, I would be doing the other highlighted items including the 3 point rear. So at the end of the day, it's pretty close.

I am just one of those "Trust but Verify" people and like to make sure I've checked everything. It would probably be easier if I didn't have so much time between order and delivery to think and rethink things...

Again, thanks and hopefully this will help others!!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just an FYI; 15” wheels will work with the complete kit brakes.

Jeff

[racingandfishing]

Posting here as there are several very experienced and in the know in this thread!

I have been reading through some of your builds and other posts and sometimes come across the "I would have done "xyz" different if I had to do it again". Maybe I missed it or am not searching correctly, but it would be extremely helpful to have all of those "what I would do different" in one common thread. Especially to us new folks who could use all of the expertise we can get as we formulate our build goals, parts lists, tools, etc. as we wait for our kit to be ready. A sticky would be an added bonus!

Robert

P.S. F5 confirmed the base and complete are the same except for the "What you need".

[edwardb]

Posting here as there are several very experienced and in the know in this thread!

I have been reading through some of your builds and other posts and sometimes come across the "I would have done "xyz" different if I had to do it again". Maybe I missed it or am not searching correctly, but it would be extremely helpful to have all of those "what I would do different" in one common thread. Especially to us new folks who could use all of the expertise we can get as we formulate our build goals, parts lists, tools, etc. as we wait for our kit to be ready. A sticky would be an added bonus!

Robert

P.S. F5 confirmed the base and complete are the same except for the "What you need".

I've seen several threads like this for the Roadster, but don't recall one for the Coupe. Especially since the Gen 3 is relatively new compared to the previous gens where some of the content my no longer apply. Suggest starting a new thread rather that going off topic with this one. It will only be as good as people post to it. Personally, I learn the most by going through the multiple build threads and making notes and saving links as I go. Most, including me, are candid about sharing comments during the build and with the final product.

[racingandfishing]

Thanks and yes, I have been reading a lot and have bookmarked a lot of posts & parts and been making notes. I greatly appreciate things right down to windshield wipers and ball joint boots. Just hoping I don't miss anything along the way!