New Coupe-R build - comments please

[gnd_hog]

FFR 65 Coupe-R kit selections below

60459 powder coat
60360 gauges
15440 coyote engine/trans mounts
60375 driveshaft - will need modified
60330 traced only cut outs
14262 std seat - will replace
16138 PS kit - but not needed
12066 std front control arms
60738 2015 IRS kit
15946 AODe adapter to IRS
60627 spoiler
60621 nose ducts
60622 rear ducts
15830 wipers
16563 battery cut off - weatherproof
16116 front sway bar
15998 IRS rear sway bar
60372 aero vents
15432 coyote accelerator kit
16237 IRS rear brake kit


IRS Center, spindles and hubs 3.27 ratio from LR

Optional parts from FFR
60472 - type 65 front aero bumper
80844 - 818 front canards
80718 - 818 carbon fiber front splitter


Ford coyote crate 9.5 to 1 CR part # M-6007-A50SCA

twin turbos 62mm - with custom exhaust

AEM Infinity series 7 ECM
100+ lb/hr injectors

Lentech 6R80 1200 HP build
Quick 6 Pro controller
cooler fitting adapter kit

SPI spec flex plate

Lokar ESS6R80HB 4” floor shifter -

Twist machines shrifter - steering wheel mount D9 paddles black polished with 6 bolt adapter

Circle D specialities - 258mm Pro billet 1C converter with 3 disk lock up, 3000-3200 stall

Wheels 18x9(?) front and 18x11(?)rear
Volk racing lightweight

Tires Toyo Proxes R888 295/30 R18 front and 335/30 R18 rear

Billet front control arms from LR

EPAS Electric power steering variable assist from JEGS #563-1012
Wilwood brakes from LR
Shocks from LR
Dry sump oil system from LR
Hayden trans cooler from LR - bypass model 11x11
Sparco Ergo seat X2 - from LR
Sparco R 353 steering wheel
Fuel cell with EFI pickup and fuel deliver system (pump, regular, filter) from LR
Paint and misc. from LR

Motor will be set up like this one 3 maps to flip flop out - gas, E85, race fuel - nice an easy 800-900 HP on gas or E-85, 1200+ on race fuel (hopefully)

http://www.mustangandfords.com/proje...coyote-part-2/

Levy Racing (LR) doing build - about to give him green light to go - comments?

[NAZ]

That's going to be a wild ride for sure and I hope you document your build on the forum so we can follow along. I really like that car and how you've spec'd it. And you'll like the tires -- they're sticker than my M/T wrinkle wall drag slicks but if you want to do some SCCA Solo better check the 100 tread wear rating on the R888 tires against the latest rulebook for the class you want to compete in.

Have fun.

[q4stix]

Crazy build indeed! It looks like a lot of the things I would love to do if my budget ever allowed, so as NAZ said, I hope there will be updates to the build posted here for us to see!

What's the goal for the car? Road course racing, standing mile, etc?

[Gordon Levy]

Definitely going to be interesting

[q4stix]

Oh, forgot to mention, the M-6007-A50SCA is the 2015+ version of the Aluminator which is not natively compatible with the AEM Infinity.
I have my 2015+ Gen 2 Coyote running with the Infinity using the Gen 1 engine harness and some makeshift values in the cam phaser tables, but I haven't been on the road to test out everything yet. With going forced induction and the 7 series, I highly suggest you get the M-6007-A50SC, not SCA part number so it'll natively work with the Infinity.

[gnd_hog]

That will be item #1 on the needs a resolution list.....expect more items on to this list......

I am sure AEM will have something in the works to address - not even sure if older version of crate motor is still available -

We will definitely address - thanks for bringing up.

[gnd_hog]

Oh, and goal for car is to go fast......

Want to put modern technology into an old school classic and have some fun....

NASA SU class is where car will race - need to beat up on the 200 HP skateboards that live there....

[Gordon Levy]

Down where you live the class it dominated by Radicals, Superlites and a friends 950hp Viper ACR. Your car will be faster.

[GoDadGo]

You Forgot To Include Nitrous Oxide!
Just kidding about the NO2!
This will be one crazy car.

[gnd_hog]

Looking through several posts on racing setup (both Coupe and roadster) and couldn’t find any where a brake cooling duct system was used. Was at F1 track over today talking with guy has 3-4 race car setups (modified street cars for the classes they run over here) and all had some sort of brake duct vent cooling system - both front and rear. The fog light ports in Coupe’s nose look like prime air routing entry points into front brakes for a duct cooling system. He swears by his for all around better brake performance - braking is going big area of concern with this build.....

Any have experience with this on FFR track race setups?

[GSides9]

Looking through several posts on racing setup (both Coupe and roadster) and couldn’t find any where a brake cooling duct system was used. Was at F1 track over today talking with guy has 3-4 race car setups (modified street cars for the classes they run over here) and all had some sort of brake duct vent cooling system - both front and rear. The fog light ports in Coupe’s nose look like prime air routing entry points into front brakes for a duct cooling system. He swears by his for all around better brake performance - braking is going big area of concern with this build.....

Any have experience with this on FFR track race setups?

After four years here on the forum, I think your builder is the right person to answer your brake system questions. The scoop that is right behind the door was used for brake cooling ducts on the original Daytona Coupes. We use them to bring fresh air into the cockpit.

[q4stix]

That will be item #1 on the needs a resolution list.....expect more items on to this list......

I am sure AEM will have something in the works to address - not even sure if older version of crate motor is still available -

We will definitely address - thanks for bringing up.

Unfortunately not. I've talked with them quite a bit about the Gen 2 engines and they've told me repeatedly that they don't have that in their plans. Foolishness to me since it's incremental changes and they're shooting themselves in the foot with a market that is thriving and is mostly already developed because of the Gen 1, but that's their decision. I even passed along two logic changes that would enable the new phasers with one of them only requiring a table to allow negative offsets with no movement by AEM. The only reason I'm still working on it is to get a Voodoo engine in my coupe.

Maybe there's behind the scenes work on the Gen 3 version of the engine, but that would be speculation.

[JimLev]

You Forgot To Include Nitrous Oxide!
Just kidding about the N2O!
This will be one crazy car.

A little N2O might not be a bad idea, it will get those turbos spinning a bit quicker.
I've got a port injected 2 stage setup on my other car, it revs to redline like there's no tomorrow.

[gnd_hog]

Have discussed with Gordon about the brake ducts - was wanting to see what others may have done - and any success/failures they might have encountered. Specifically with routing flow into center of rotor so air passes up through center fins on rotors. Car is going into new territory and being serial number one is always a risk......

As far as N2O - power curve of Coyotes with twin 62 mm turbos all look more than acceptable without N2O - stall coverter and trans brake will address any initial wind up concerns hopefully.

We’re also going with the older crate motor to avoid any issues.....

[Kirbert]

You mention the aero vents. Judging from the photos I've seen, the forward aero vents vent the wheel wells -- but omit the vent for the engine compartment. With what you're doing, I'd suggest the vent of the engine compartment is preferable.

[Kirbert]

I wanted to ask where you're going with the final drive unit. The Mustang IRS uses an 8.8 unit, but apparently Ford has developed an upgrade for that unit that makes it as tough as a 9-inch, and they're calling it the "super 8.8" or something like that. Certainly sounds like something to look into with this much power -- although it can be argued that this car wouldn't put that much stress on the final drive unit simply because the car is so light, regardless of how much power is under the hood.

Also, isn't there a Thorsen (sp?) limited-slip package available for the IRS diff? That might be worth looking into, too.

[Kirbert]

A little N2O might not be a bad idea, it will get those turbos spinning a bit quicker.

Hah! An NO accelerator pump!

[edwardb]

I wanted to ask where you're going with the final drive unit. The Mustang IRS uses an 8.8 unit, but apparently Ford has developed an upgrade for that unit that makes it as tough as a 9-inch, and they're calling it the "super 8.8" or something like that. Certainly sounds like something to look into with this much power -- although it can be argued that this car wouldn't put that much stress on the final drive unit simply because the car is so light, regardless of how much power is under the hood.

Also, isn't there a Thorsen (sp?) limited-slip package available for the IRS diff? That might be worth looking into, too.

The 2015+ Mustang IRS center section is the "Super 8.8." All the internals, bearings, etc. are bigger and beefier than previous 8.8's. The 3.73 version is the Torsen setup from the factory, although Torsen can be retrofitted into other ratios. Balance are the typical Ford Trac-Lok limited slip.

[gnd_hog]

Gordon talked about a 3.27 ratio Thorsten unit - aside from differential cooling and upgraded half shafts - don’t think there’s anything else to the back end he’s gonna do, well besides bigger brakes....going 14 in. Rotors front and back

As far as brakes vents - talking about hose ducts directly into hubs from behind spindle

[gnd_hog]

Oh, engine cooling vents (it’s early here, like 4:00 am early) that will be up to Gordon on how to handle. Sure it will get addressed. We are going to try to get cold air intake into the turbos - hopefully wide enough apart to avoid radiator vent hot air flow.

Gordon should be ordering first round of parts on Monday - FFR kit, engine, tranny, fuel cell and dry sump tank. Will be some frame/bracket modification needed for tranny and maybe fuel cell/dry sump as well. First task to get all that sorted out and then powder coat frame.

[edwardb]

Gordon talked about a 3.27 ratio Thorsten unit - aside from differential cooling and upgraded half shafts - don’t think there’s anything else to the back end he’s gonna do, well besides bigger brakes....going 14 in. Rotors front and back.

3.27 Torsen (https://torsen.com/) is a custom combination, but totally doable, Upgraded CV axles are pretty normal in the Mustang crowd too. With power adders and sticky tires the OE CV axles are a weak point. Diff cooler typical for a race setup.

Assume you've seen and studied John George's Gen 3 Coupe race setup? Since sold due to his job, but campaigned very successfully. He has a lot of details of the build on his website. http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/word...r48-car-setup/

[gnd_hog]

Have studied John’s Coupe-R quit a bit.....Gordon is very familiar with his car as well, very familiar......

Addressing issues when going from 400 HP to 1200 HP will be focus. Gordon has already spec’d out a lot of upgrades for the new crate motor. Want a rock solid, reliable setup. Will go with several engine tunes and I will stay in the “detuned” mode of ~800 HP until I am very comfortable driving the car......putting in as much track time as possible at F1 track in Bahrain in mean time......

[gnd_hog]

The final specs as agreed to and where build will start come this Monday - changes will occur (don’t they always) and we have clear provisions on how to handle - working very well with Gordon and we are on same page.

Nothing but positive interactions with Gordon - he may be more excited about this build than me...

Coupe-R build options updates May 13 - 2018

FFR 65 Coupe-R kit - selected items below

60459 powder coat LR to do grey color
60360 gauges
15440 coyote engine/trans mounts
No - 16295 coyote full length headers - custom headers from LR
60375 driveshaft - will need modified
60330 traced only cut outs
14262 std seat - will replace
16138 PS kit - but not needed
12066 std front control arms
60738 2015 IRS kit
15946 AODe adapter to IRS
60627 spoiler
60621 nose ducts
60622 rear ducts
15830 wipers
16563 battery cut off - weatherproof
16116 front sway bar
15998 IRS rear sway bar
60372 aero vents
15432 coyote accelerator kit
16237 IRS rear brake kit
No - 16126 IRS Center, spindles and hubs 3.27 ratio LR to provide

Misc parts from FFR
60472 - type 65 front aero bumper
80844 - 818 front canards
80718 - 818 carbon fiber front splitter

Ford coyote crate 9.5 to 1 M-6007-A50SC - (older version no longer using SCA)
Garret twin turbos 62mm - with custom water jacketed intercoolers
AEM Infinity series 7 ECM
SPI spec flex plate
Dry sump oil system from With parts
Fuel cell (22 gallon) with EFI pickup and fuel deliver system (pump, regular, filter) from LR for E85 or race fuel
Coyote engine harness
Alternator and bracket
Cobra jet intake
Dyno tune (two maps)
Upgraded valve springs
Upgraded head studs
Billet cam guide tracks

Lentech 6R80 1200 HP build
Quick 6 Pro controller
cooler fitting adapter kit 3/8”
Lokar ESS6R80HB 4” floor shifter
Twist machines shrifter - steering wheel mount D9 paddles black polished with 6 bolt adapter
Circle D specialities - 258mm Pro billet 1C converter with 3 disk lock up, 3000-3200 stall
Hayden trans cooler from LR - bypass model 11x11
Custom driveshaft

Donor IRS with 3.27 Torsen

Wheels 18x11 front and 18x13 rear
Volk racing lightweight (Need 2 sets, Volk or equivalent wheels)
Street Tires Toyo Proxes R888R 315/30 R18 front and 335/30 R18 rear
Race tires R7 Hoosier 315/30 R18 front and 345/35 R18 rear

EPAS Electric power steering variable assist from JEGS #563-1012

Billet front control arms from CR
Wilwood brakes from LR 14” front and rear (rear changing from 13” to 14”
DA KONI Shocks from LR

Sparco Ergo seat X2 - from LR
Sparco R 353 steering wheel

Paint and misc. from LR - Marlot red with dual grey stripes

[Kirbert]

Skydivers these days use rectangular parachutes that they can steer around, but back in the day parachutes were round and fell straight down. Those old round parachutes, as I understand, had a small hole in the crown. Why the hole? Because they produced more drag with the hole than without. Now, obviously, you couldn't make the hole TOO big or you'd drop like a rock. But there was some optimum small opening that allowed air through the parachute for maximum aerodynamic drag.

I'm suspicious that the same goes for wheel well vents. I've seen racing cars that essentially didn't have a rear half to their wheel wells, and I'm sure that's good for reduced drag. These smaller openings you can add to a Type 65 Coupe, on the other hand, look to me to be akin to those openings in the parachute crown: Possibly doing more harm than good. If it were me, I would not run those. Just because they're available doesn't mean they are a good idea. No way to be sure who's right without wind tunnel testing, of course.

[Kirbert]

A little N2O might not be a bad idea, it will get those turbos spinning a bit quicker.

If your plan is standing start stuff like 0-60 or 1/4 mile, you're right, nitrous will do nothing for you. The Coyote will produce all the power the rear tires can handle for the first second or two in 1st gear, and from then on you've got boost. However, there are other situations in which nitrous might be helpful; basically, any situation in which you need to go from being completely off the throttle to hammering it.

If you went that way, I would suggest controlling it with three switches. One would be on the loud pedal, turns the nitrous on when the pedal is matted. The second would be a manifold pressure sensor, turns the nitrous off whenever boost exceeds some set amount, indicating the turbos have come up to speed. And third would be a transmission switch that would disable the nitrous in 1st gear. If you were capable of more refined control, the manifold pressure switch could be upgraded to a sensor that gradually tapers the nitrous off as the boost comes on.

[Kirbert]

Those Wilwood brakes are iron? There's no way to go with carbon brakes on this car? With a top speed that'll probably approach 250, I'd think it'd be worth considering.

[Kirbert]

I dunno if it's rude to ask, but do you have a proposed budget for this build? I think a lot of us would like to know about how much lettuce it takes to put together something this awesome.

[Clover]

This thing is going to be incredible, I can't wait to see/hear this thing tearing up the track. Just curious, does that engine and turbo combo come with a gift certificate to TireRack.com? A little quick math tells me you are going to be around 2 lbs. per HP. What a machine.

[gnd_hog]

Hopefully, will apply what have Learned thus far and not “go from being completely off the throttle to hammering it”

This car will light off the tires at pretty much any speed - the “turbo” lag may save me a spin or two. The Radicals been driving over here are just the same - can’t go full bore while still coming out of the turn - have to ease in to it......

Trying to find a reasonable rear wheel drive car over here to get some track time in - to see feel vs. the radicals - Which force you to drive smooth......

Trying to stay within my preset total budget for race car, Ram-2500 Cummins hauler and enclosed trailer.....before long I will have to scrap the Ram-2500 for a good set of horses pulling an open flat bed.......

[q4stix]

I'm not sure how many inputs on the Infinity you'll have left after the turbos (assuming you're going electronic boost control, per gear boost, and controlled wastegates vs. manual), but if you look on ffcars there is a thread dedicated to the AEM Infinity and a couple users have set up the traction control with it. Add in a multi-mode switch and you can dial back the traction control as you get used to the nature of the car. Might save you a few spins coming out of corners and a few set of tires... or dial the TC way back and light them up!

[gnd_hog]

AEM controller might be a no go if Gordon can’t find an older SC crate motor......would go with newer SCA crate with 504V ECM from FRPP - HP Tuner suite to handle the tune - maybe we lose ability to electronic control boost as well.....Gordon is working on this.....

We’ve also been discussing going with 19x11 and 19x13 wheels - Viper ACR tires for street and the Avon’s for the track - another item on his to-do list....

The taller rear tires should drop nose naturally and give car much different look

[q4stix]

gnd_hog, I responded to your PM

[TheBabyBadger]

So.... for comments... I guess WOW works okay (but falls a bit short, haha). That's an insane build!

You alluded to budget but didn't specify still. So no intent to pry but what was the "original" budget ballpark. As aforementioned... I think everyone is curious what it takes to build a Coupe of this caliber. God Speed and God Bless man, your builder has his work cut out for him!!!

Can I call dibs on first drive? Kidding! Unless it's an option...

[gnd_hog]

Looks like major change in engine plans - due to gen 2 engine changes - cam phase shift that prevents AEM infinity controller to work - all internals getting rolled back to gen 1 to make AEM work.

And since the cost difference from a 5.0 SCA motor and 5.2 XS motor is only around $4,500 - going to upgrade the crate engine to the nice blue valve covered 5.2 XS.....with 12:1 compression AND put the twin turbos on it....

Star trekking - to boldly go where no man has gone before.....

As far as budget comments - hauler truck, trailer with living space and race car combined was around 200k. I must have 60k for truck and trailer......parts alone for race car are pushing 100k right now....

[q4stix]

I think you've got an awesome plan worked out! Good to be able to bounce ideas back and forth with you.

[gnd_hog]

Always good to leverage and learn from others. Your help was appreciated.

The gen 1 FRPP cams available for the 5.2XS are exactly same lift and duration specs as the gen 2 cam that comes with 5.2 XS to begin with. So zero loss in engine capability.

If someone gets a fully functional integrated ECU working in next 6 months - can always explore that option.

Minor tweaking will always occur but hopefully all the big ticket items are now defined. Gordon has been really great and patient with all my inquiries and questions as well.

[WIS89]

WOW!!

Oh, and WOW!!

You have put together an amazing plan for an amazing race car! I really hope you will post in progress pictures so we can all live vicariously through you. Oh, and did I mention WOW!!?

I look forward to seeing your progress on the build, but just as cool, to see how the racing goes once she is finished. Good luck with the build!!

WOW!

Regards,

Steve

[gnd_hog]

Since we are going to roll back the 5.2 XS to Gen 1 ECU compatibility - we get to play with all the "fun" stuff the AEM Infinity 7 has to offer. Since motor will most likely be over 1000 ft/lb torque throughout the shifting window - anything we can do to lessen the "hit" will be helpful. The Quick 6 tranny controller can be set up to give soft shifts or very hard shifts (read time that locking torque convertor is disengaged). With AEM and "no lift shift" option tied into manual shift mode and triggered off of when the upshift paddle has engaged (it's a momentary switch) - it should lessen the "hit" when Quick 6 is set for a "hard" shift (read faster) AND allow to keep throttle WOT when blasting down a long straight away.

Anyone ever hear of this being tried? Searched and really not much out there - other than in theory it should work.

Should make for the smoothest, fastest shift possible if we get it all to work......traction control will also be set up through the AEM ECU and we don't need to wait for tire slippage to take action when we know on an upshift it is most likely going to occur anyway......something to chew on for sure....

EDIT: did find something on the topic of why it is good (but not the how)..... https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ift-gearboxes/

[TheBabyBadger]

I can't wait to see this thing hit the streets... my lord.

Actually, it's far too radical to do much on the street but nasty burn outs! I'd love to see this thing hit the track!

Where are you from gnd_hog? West Coast native, current resident here. Bay Area, CA.

[gnd_hog]

Texas but been in Middle East last 4 Years....ready to get back home at end of year.

Hopefully have nice present ready soon after I arrive........